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There are a couple of things you should be aware of: First, I test drove the GLX and the GLX 4Motion at the dealership and met the salesman face to face (which is no small feat given the fact that the dealership is 80 miles from my home). I gave my card to the salesman following the test drive (without him even asking for it), told him I would be out of town for 4 days on a business trip, that I would pay cash for the car, and to call me the next week after he found out what color GLX's were inbound to the dealership. Short of handing him a blank check, I couldn't have done much more to demonstrate my interest in the car. After two weeks, I heard nothing. I am certainly not going to beg someone to sell me a car and therefore started looking at other cars.
Second, price was not my #1 deciding factor. Not a single person that I asked could justify spending $3000 more on a GLX Passat instead of buying the '01 Acura TL. Since I am not a moron, of course I knew that the '02 Acura TL had been released and, therefore, dealers would be willing to cut a deal on the '01. I don't consider that to be "yesterday's news."
I love my new Acura and every time I drive past the VW dealership in question, I honk and wave. Far from "circumventing the sales process," I practically pleaded with someone from VW to sell me a Passat and only found myself looking at the Acura after I got no response from the VW dealer.
Next time, ask some questions before giving me a lecture. While you think you have all the answers, your response simply raises more questions about VW's sales practices.
I went to the dealership in Norwalk and was pleasantly surprised on how nice they were. Even when I told them I wanted to test drive it. The sales manager was pleasant as well and did not push me. He actually liked that I knew more about the car than them. I suggest that anyone go to this dealership if they want to buy a car in this area. They were honest and friendly and did not have a problem with my not paying MSRP. Needless to say, this dealership put my faith back into WV AFTER THOSE OTHER IDIOTS.
IF ANYONE KNOWS ABOUT BUYING A VW IN EUROPE AND BRINGING IT TO THE US PLEASE LET ME KNOW OF SUCH A PROGRAM.
Like you, I looked hard at the Volvo S60. Besides being a more expensive and smaller car than the passat, I could not get past some of the interior trim bits. The seats were very comfortable, but the knobs and switches everywhere looked cheap and out of place. Especially the shifter.
The plastic flaps inside the door panels and windows bugged me too. The auto publications have harped on the S40 for not being up to volvo standards and the new S60 seemed to be cut from the same mold...meaning that it looks to have been designed by volvo's finance department rather than their engineering department. My two cents.
I am not really sure where you draw your conclusions about more expensive iron and the illusion that they are for "only the rich and wealthy people".
Trust me, there are PLENTY of "rich and wealthy" people driving Passats as well.
It really has nothing to do with logic. They have designed a product that requires a certain octane minimum to achieve the performance objectives that are stated. In order to benefit from this performance, you must supply the engine with what it needs.
Choosing not to do so sort of negates one of the reasons for buying the car in the first place.
Just because the WRX only costs $23.5k, should the owner heed to your advise and pass on the high octane? I really don't think so.
Prehaps someday, after you get your drivers license, move away from home and understand the real world, this will all make sense to you.
Let's just get back to focusing on the Passat and stay away from the negative focus on other members based on the opinions that they have posted.
We can all express our disagreements without involving terms and expressions that can be construed as personal attacks.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
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The following consumer advisory was issued today by the U.S. Department of Transportation’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) for owners of passenger cars and light trucks equipped with side air bags:
"Side impact air bags can provide significant supplemental safety benefits to adults in side impact crashes. However, children who are seated in close proximity to a side air bag may be at risk of serious or fatal injury, especially if the child=s head, neck, or chest is in close proximity to the air bag at the time of deployment. Because there are variations in the design and performance of side air bags, manufacturers should notify consumers regarding whether it is safe for children to sit next to the side air bags. Children 12 and under should always travel in the rear seat and use an age_appropriate restraint.
"Since children should be seated in the rear seat, NHTSA has asked each manufacturer of vehicles with rear side air bags to ship the vehicles to dealers with these air bags deactivated, unless the manufacturer has determined that those side air bags impose no significant risk to children. Purchasers who want such air bags activated, after being advised of the potential risk to out_of_position children, should be able to have them switched on by their dealer. We are also asking manufacturers to advise current owners of vehicles with such rear side air bags that the owners can bring them back to their dealer to have the bags deactivated if they are likely to be carrying children in the rear outboard seats."
The 2001 Passats DO NOT have REAR side air bags. Only FRONT seats have side air bags. However they do have Side Curtain Protection that covers the FRONT and REAR. The side curtain is different from side air bags and should not be harmful to infants because they drop from above the doors in the event of side collision (to protect the head). Their deployment will usually be well above any infant seats. So infants are very safe in the rear seats, at least for the Pas sat. Front side air bags will deploy at a lower location (to protect the upper torso) because they are located at the side of the front seats. So, as always, do not put infants in front seats. As such, the NHTSA advisory will not apply for the Passats.
I'm trying to decide whether to buy a 2001.5 now or wait and but a 2002 next fall. Some of my dislikes on the 2001.5's were lack of CD player, and only a 2yr/24k warranty. CD players should be standard equipment on the 2002's but I have not heard anything official about the warranty improvements yet.
With these changes to the 2002's, I hoping the base price doesn't jump too much. I'm sure the extra warranty will be reflected in the new price. Its a tough decision whether to buy a 2001.5 now, or wait 6 months and get one with a CD player and a better warranty.
Does anyone know when the 2002's will hit the U.S. markets? Any word on prices or warranty info yet? Please advise.
Any thoughts out there. 5 speed sports sedans are really disappearing.
INKY
INKY
Thanks for clarifying how the airbags on the new Passat work. I still have some concern about the side (especially rear) curtain airbags work. I've read that their is concern about how out-of-position (e.g. leaning against the door or window) adults and especially children could be injured by the airbags, even the kind that deploy from above the doors and come down. I'd imagine they come down with a lot of force and could injure a child (not necessarily an infant who was secured in an infant seat) that was against the door/window.
Thanks for the info on the warranty for 2002. Do you know if the 4/50 b-to-b warranty replaces both the 2/24 b-to-b and 7/100 powertrain warranties or just the 2/24 b-to-b portion (with the 7/100 powertrain warranty still being retained)?
I don't mean this to be confrontational, but are you an engineer? Do you really feel comfortable with, and qualified to make, unequivicobly, those statements? I know I wouldn't.
If a child is leaning against that door, sleeping, and that "curtain" bag goes, how safe is that child's little head? Even a youngster in a booster seat, properly secured in, would certainy be at some risk.. no?
I'm not bagging on the "curtains", quite the opposite. I think that the increased safelty devices are great. But I also like data, and qualified information. And your post read liek an "experts" opinion, clearly giving willyho that impression.
My question is.. What qualifies YOU to make that bold statement? Again, not getting confrontational, just questioning.
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Willyho:
Currently, all VW's have a 2/24k b2b and a 10/100k powertrain, not 7/100k.
The guys at the VW Vortex are privy to a LOT of inside information. They have always had the scoop long before anyone else. They have given no indication that the VW warranty is going to change for '02. And even if it did, it would seem unlikely they would match the Audi warranty. At best, i would hope for a standard 3/36k b2b.
As for the rear side airbags, if you purchase a vehicle equipped as so, you can have them turned off before you take delivery. The side curtains will not hurt children.
Now this...
"The side curtains will not hurt children." --jpvwaudi
I just think that is such a bold, blanket statement. No offense, but as a parent-to-be, I would want a bit more info to back that up.
Perhaps I am being overcautious, and I do NOT mean to "scare" anyone or anything. I'm just questioning, that's all.
Sporin:
If you read my statement carefully, I only mentioned infants NOT children. If an infant is placed on a booster seat and securely hooked into the LATCH system provided by the Passat, then, there will be sufficient clearance between the door and the booster seat for the "curtain" to deploy. However it will be an entirely different scenario if there is, let say, a 5 or 6 year old that is leaning against the door. The deployment force might be too harsh. Again, if there is a concern, place the child in the middle seat.
Willyho:
I understand your concern and I suggest that you call VW customer service (1-800-822-8987) to see if they can provide any answers. Don't let this issue deter you from what I think the safest car in its class(based on NHTSA crash test)
You have done a lot to quell my concerns about the system, thank you.
:-)
Thanks again for your input. I think we're saying the same thing, namely that: the way the curtains come down, an infant in an infant car seat (especially in the middle of the rear) should not be endangered by the side curtain airbag, but a child sitting in an outboard seat might be. Like sporin, I'm a parent-to-be and perhaps especially sensitive to issues like that right now.
I agree that the Passat does get good marks for safety (at least for adult crash dummies) and that was one of the things I like about the Passat. I've also read that side airbags and side curtain (or other head protection) airbags can reduce injury and/or death in certain situations. I guess I'll have to make a judgement call whether those benefits outweigh risks to children. I'd love to be able to come down on the side of the Passat.
Look, folks, these devices are becoming universal in all manner of cars, and at a rapid pace. If curtain head bags are a real menace to kids, then very soon there will be no cars left that are not a menace to kids. By the time a "child" has enough upper body length to be affected by a curtain head bag, he/she is big enough to need the protection for the same reasons as an adult. If you have serious doubts on this score, you should be making queries of the appropriate national agency, to wit, the NHTSA, who obviously have the responsibility to pass on these matters.
Door or seat mounted side bags are of course another matter, and that is why many car makers either make the rear side bags optional, or allow you to disable them electically. Our Honda Accord's front side bags are automatically disabled on any side where the occupant is out of position or under-sized, and based on various comments on the Honda boards, these sensors clearly work.
It's true both engines would probably run ok with lower octane. However each engine is equipped with knock sensors, O2 sensors etc. What happens is that when the ECU (engine computer) senses detonation it will retard the timing, enrich the air fuel mixture or both. So the engine will still run ok but with a bit less performance and/or fuel economy. I know of no reason that changing fuel octane's would cause problems other than the owners who are used to one performance & fuel economy level complaining when it changes after they change the type of fuel they are using. So it could cause VW more "service calls".
Please don't take this wrong but I personally don't understand all of the harping on whether a car requires premium fuel or not. If you drive the average of 12k a year and average 20mpg, then a 15 cent a gallon price increase for premium fuel costs and extra $90 a year. Sure $90 is $90 but in the grand scheme of things it's really not much at all. If you get more mpg with premium then that helps to recoup part of the cost. For me anyway if I am spending 25-30k on a car, an extra $100 a year in ownership costs are not going to break me. I will gladly pay the extra $100 or so a year for the fun of driving a Passat vs some of it's competition. I am more worried about other long term and potentially more expensive ownership costs. I just hope my car doesn't have them:-)
People who prefer the Passat due so for its looks, safety and driving experience. Even though Passats are not quite as reliable or low maintenance as other makes - and this is where I disagree with jackiele - they rarely spend more time at the dealer than in one's garage.
This is really difficult. My 89 Nissan Maxima SE 5 speed was the easist decision on earth.
Will cool my heels awhile-but I am so tired of cookie cutter Accords and Camrys.
INKY
Before I made my way down to the local Honda dealer, I noticed that the Passat was surpassing the Accord in every mag that I saw. I figured I might as well take a test drive for fun and see if I could feel a difference. Once I test drove the Passat (the day after I test drove the Accord) I had a whole new perspective.
IMHO, you "drive" a Passat... for a few thousand dollars less you can "ride" in an Accord. I hate to sound like the commercials, but maybe they're on to something. I too, was weary of WV's past maintenance record, but the more I asked around the more it seemed to be just that... in the past.
If you want the best car in the class with great style and driveability buy the Passat, if a couple thousand dollars makes or breaks the deal buy the Accord and you won't be sorry.
btw...I had a '92 (built in Japan) Camry and a '96 (built in Kentucky) Camry. The '92 was a better built car, with higher quality materials throughout.
Sam
Same is true with what you are saying, some just do not understand "the difference"!!
For what it's worth -- Even after my frustrating problems, I still think the Passsat is VW's best car by far.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum6/HTML/014731.html
Again, reliability is relative. I have a '00 Eddie Bauer Expedition, and every time it goes in for an oil change, I usually find something for them to look at. does that make the truck unreliable? No. The truck (or the car for that matter)is not flawless. All cars will have problems.
For my 01.5 Passats, I only have it for 3 months, no problems so far except the sunroof didn't work on delivery because somebody forgot to pop in the fuse.
If you are concern about the long term reliability, buy the WV Master guard Ex. warranty. I only had to pay a $25 deductible for each claim. Contrary to many in the VWVortex forum believes, I DO NOT have to pay up front for the repairs. All it took was for the service technician to call the company that administer this extended warranty. When buying an extended warranty, IMHO, you should get one that is backed by the factory. The Masterguard is officially endorsed by VW so the claim process is "smoother". I don't know and have no experience about other third parties ext. warranty.
Sam
I am hoping to get a little reassurance from my fellow VW drivers. My 2001 Passat GLS V6 <3500 miles is not even 6 months old & I've had to have not only the housing cable, but also the selector cable replaced in my car. (car all of a sudden wouldn't shift out of Neutral regardless where the shifter was at. Had to get car towed 60 miles to nearest dealer). Luckily this was all covered under warranty, I have been in a rental car for 2 weeks, PUHLEEZZEE someone out there tell me that this was a flukey thing and not indicative of things to come.
p.s. When I clean the windshield with the windshield fluid, I smell a distinct ammonia-ish smell. Is this normal? That's repair #3
The factory supplied windshield fluid is a bit more potent than your typical stuff. You won't notice it after a couple months or after you add additional fluid.