Volkswagen Passat 2005 and earlier

rbutera1

I'm sure this has been address before. I am talking to several dealers about their remaining 01.5 and 02 GLX and GLX 4motions. The 01.5's are going for $3500 off MSRP. The dealers seem to come up with a different invoice price on the 02's than I have gotten from KBB and Edmunds. Is it worth the extra cost of the 02 to get the better BtoB warranty, and what ever other minor changes were made? Has anyone looked at VW's lease program on Passat's? I am in limbo as to which way to go. Thanks in advance for your input.

merckx

Gas milage with the 1.8T 5spd. has been unbelievable-over 4,000 miles 32 mpg(this is with a rather conservative driving style,though).But in a car with a back seat as big as it is,I am beyond pleased.

I don't really want to call it turbo lag,as this was really an issue with turbo cars 10+ years ago.But taking off from idle,the car can even require a bit of clutch slip to move out smartly.My 1995 Jetta(non-turbo) was REALLY like this.The turbo does come in much lower in rpms than in the old days-it does also lack that"wacked in the back"powerful surge-it's much more gradual and natural.

Some feel that after a drive,a turbo should be allowed to idle upon final stop to insure complete cooling.In the 80's,hot oil could "coke up"(become sludgy and loose its viscosity)if not completely cooled down.Some will say to sit for a few moments in the driveway at idle after all drives.I don't-I don't think the car is as high strung as,say, a 1980 Tuubo Porsche.

If you like the (real)wood,though,consider the 6.It does add refinement-but the 4 already has pleanty of that.

Finally,when I met my wife,she had a 1998 Camry XLE with everything but leather and the 6.Although she loved it,I just couldn't raise any passion for it.But consider sites like VWVortex.com or Clubb5.com.VWs really inspire a lot of interest and joy.Vw ownership can become almost a hobby.

silvercrown

Thanks again for your comments. I can't wait to test drive the turbo and the 6 back-to-back and see if I notice any major differences.

I did have a question about your post. What did you mean when you said: "But taking off from idle, the car can even require a bit of clutch slip to move out smartly"? Please forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject, but since I have only driven automatics, I'm not sure what "clutch slip" is. Would this be something that I would not see in the 1.8T automatic?

From what I've read so far, it sounds like the turbo might "feel" faster than the 6 even with less HP and torque.

As far as the cool down period theory goes, would this be any different for short drives vs long trips (say an hour or more)? Is there a need to change the oil more often with a turbo engine? Perhaps these issues are moot if modern turbo cars are not as "high strung" as older cars, but I'm just curious.

Being a Camry owner, I can see your point. I bought my car out of necessity and I wanted to make a smart, practical decision (even though I had to act quickly). Only later did I feel that something was missing, even though my car has been flawless in its operation.

I can see that VW, and the Passat in particular, has the ability to generate a lot of passion and feelings for the cars and for driving in general. I posted some comments previously on "Passat Passion." It's definitely contagious and you can see it on this forum as well as the vwvortex forum. Aside from the beauty and performance of the Passat, I find that phenomenon very intriguing. It's a car that involves its owner in all aspects, allowing them to enjoy it on many levels. Case in point, look at how much I've had to say about it and I don't even own one. Yet ..... (smile)

Thanks again,
SilverCrown

pkradd

I have had two Camry's, a '95 and '98 with auto transmission and 4 cylinder. Those cars had a slight "dip" when accelerating from a standstill. Neither, of course, had a turbocharger. My 2001.5 Passat with tiptronic has the same thing. Once you pass the 15 mph threshold, everything is smooth from then on. Flooring the car activates the turbo and there's a rush of power that is very reassuring. VW does not indicate that oil should be changed more often or that a cool down idle is necessary because of the turbo. Since they build the cars I'd suspect they have intimate knowledge of how to operate them and what service is required. I know it is important to use the proper octane. In my case 91 is not available in South FL, so I use 93. If you bring your car in, any car for that matter, for scheduled maint. all should be well. Of course driver habits determine how the car performs and stands up over time as well.

merckx

"Clutch slip" is only for manual transmissions.In a car that does not have a lot of touque,smooth take-off can be a slight issue.Also,sush a car will require a good deal of shifting(its sweet-spot of best rpm range is narrow).An automatic,with its torque converter,takes care of that.All VWs call for 5000mi oil changes-the turbo will not require them more frequently,but it will be espically important that you do adhere to that 5000mi requirment.
I have heard that a 1-2 min driveway cooldown is a good idea,but I wonder if this is being a little fussy.Long drives at steady(even high) speeds will not engage the turbo,it is in town with a lot of even fairly rapid acceleration.

silvercrown

Thanks for the input. It's interesting that you noticed the "dip" or "lag" on non-turbo 4 cyl cars as well. For all I know, I may start noticing a similar "dip" with my V6 Camry, if I focus on that. I never really pay attention to it, I just expect it to go when I punch it and it does. It sounds like you are happy with your 1.8T. That's encouraging.

I would have no problem using premium fuel and continuing to have regular maintenance done on the Passat, just as I do with my Camry. My motto is if you treat your car right, it will treat you right. So I baby my cars and so far none of them (except for the used and abused cars from years ago) have ever let me down.

I will definitely consider the turbo in addition to the V6 when I decide to seriously shop for a Passat. It doesn't sound like there's a huge, huge difference between them. I'll have to decide if it's worth the extra $$$ for the V6. Unless I get an unexpected windfall, in which case, I'm going for the GLX! (smile)

Thanks again,
SilverCrown

silvercrown

Since I would be getting an automatic transmission, this would not affect me. It's still nice to understand it better, though.

From info that I've read elsewhere in the Town Hall, as well as pkradd's post, it seems that your theory about the cool down period is correct. It doesn't sound like you need to wait a prescribed period of time before shutting off the turbo engine. Probably a brief period (that most of us take anyway before shut down) would suffice, if it's even necessary. I am known for hanging out in my car for a few minutes at times, listening to music or something, before shutting off the engine and getting out. It's an occasional habit that has nothing to do with letting the engine cool down, but would work well with the turbo whether I need the idle time or not. And I wouldn't have to change my habits drastically, either.

I'm glad that I'm getting a better understanding about the turbo engine. I feel better about considering it for my future Passat purchase.

Thanks a bunch!

SilverCrown

kartez

I have a Y2K GLS 1.8T manual and have about 22-23K miles on it over the past 15 months. It has been a troublefree experience so far.

I usually get 31-32 mpg average and I am a slightly aggressive driver. Just as a test, for a week I drove at maximum 65 mph and it gave me 36-37 mpg. I once hit 40.7 mpg travelling at 60 mph from work to home (about 22 miles). I realised during this test that having a properly inflated tires together with gentler acceleration and deceleration procedures gave me a good mpg and caused less damage to the car.

Being an Camry driver it is fair to assume that you do not have a tendency to drive aggressively. If you are going to be gentle on your Passat it should be troublefree for a long time to come. Beware though, a Passat is much more engaging to drive than an average Camcord. So it might be a little tough to control the urge to drive hard.

silvercrown

I might surprise you, every now and then I get the "need for speed" and I push my V6 just a bit. (smile) I like the power of a V6, which is why I paid extra for it when I bought my Camry. But you are correct as far as being an aggressive driver, I am not. Frankly, my Camry does not inspire a lot of confidence with tight turns, etc., which makes me more conservative in certain driving situations. Although I just might take it up a notch with the tighter handling of a Passat.

The improved gas mileage sounds great, even though I would have an automatic so my numbers won't look as impressive as yours. With gas prices climbing back up, this may become a more important issue and I might have a greater appreciation for better fuel economy.

I am happy to hear that you have had a troublefree and positive experience with your Passat. That's very encouraging.

The more time I spend in this forum, the more I want to run about and get a Passat ahead of my original schedule. The enthusiasm is truly contagious!

kartez

Do yourself a favour and get the optional sport suspension. It is not harsh, just tightens up the body roll.

merckx

Is there one for the Passat?

pkradd

I think the basic suspension and overall stiffness of the new Passat give it a much tighter and sportier feel than the '98 Camry I had. I don't believe there's a sport option, although I've read of aftermarket availability. I understand the new 2002 Camry used the Audi A4 (nee Passat 2001.5) platform as a target, although most reviews say it still doesn't have that feel of control. The Passat is certainly not a sports car, but I love the control and feeling of feedback when driving. I never had that feeling with the Camry. I constantly say to myself, "myself, if only that Audi A4 driver knew that he could've saved $3000 or more.." I just read at VW Vortex that Passat sales are really skyrocketing.

kartez

I was talking about the sport springs available as an accessory. If you are not into aftermarket, these springs are the best option available.

pkradd

Yup, I forgot about them. Dealer installed.

silvercrown

I had no idea that there were any such options for the Passat. I read that the Jetta has a sport suspension option and a 17" wheel option. I wondered why the Passat did not have either of these options. Maybe it would take it too far into Audi territory. The only way to get 16" wheels on the Passat is to get the GLX, as far as I know.

Kartez said in his post that it does not make the ride harsh, but tightens up body roll. I take it that this improves the handling without making the ride jarring or hard. An extra boost to inspire more driver confidence on the road, I would presume. Something else for me to check out ....

mmcbride1

I did save $3,000 when I got my A4. A Passat GLX 4Motion would have cost me $3-4k more. And if you have a PAssat with 4Motion, you paid more for your car than I did for my A4.

It's all about what you want in your car. If VW offered a GLS Passat with 4Motion, the 1.8T engine and a manual tranny, I would have gotten one. But to get AWD in a Passat requires the highest trim level and almost zero dealer negotiating (at least back in Feb.).

wie_gehts

My gf has the New Passat 1.8T, I am generally very impressed with the car. It looks beautiful, but this is subjective, and the overall built quality and materials is beyond any competitor in the same class. I think the suspension might not be soft enough for some American drivers, as they seem to like that (and I do understand it actually considering the bad roads), but people looking for a slightly sporty sedan, this is a good choice. Overall, I can not understand how someone could buy a Camry or Accord after seeing and driving this car, particularly styling and overall quality of materials. I am not too happy with engine noise though, I feel the 1.8T feels a little rough and noisy under acceleration and I personally would go with the V6 instead. The automatic does a very good job and the engine is really strong. It is a little weak at initial take-off due to the turbo but gets going very quickly. There is plenty of power at highway speeds for passing, even with the automatic. Before the Passat, we had an Accord with the Vtec engine and 150 hp. However, the Passat is heavier than the (old model) Accord, so it would appear the power to weight ratio is almost the same, yet there is absolutely no comparison. The Passat feels like having a LOT more power than the Accord, I assume this is because of Hondas VTEC which advertises a lot of horsepower that you don't have below 3,500 rpm (for example at highway driving). Also impressive are the safety features (number of airbags) that are standard (however, it will be expensive if they all go off during a low speed impact).
Powerwise, I don't think the V6 is worth it, noise-wise, it is, unless you prefer some engine rumble over quiet operation (I don't).

pkradd

I was basically talking about the entry level GLS which I have. I realize that once you start adding options the Passat gets into Audi territory. I guess at that point it's a matter of which cars design appeals to you. The new Audi A4 has all the same upgrades in chassis, interior room, etc. as the 2001.5//2002 Passat.

mmcbride1

I just wanted AWD (Live in Denver). Therefore, my sole choice with the Passat was the GLX 4Motion. It's not that the Passat doesn't appeal to me. The Audi was cheaper, and offers more.

skspgh

what is the right tire pressure for the wheels on a 2001 GLS 4dr auto sedan? Also, is the premium gas a MUST? Will the car engine be damaged by using cheaper fuel (I understand I won't get the great mileage from lower grade fuel)? Thanks.

silvercrown

Thanks for your input on this issue. I've been researching the turbo concept and although I have a better understanding of it now, I think I would prefer the smoother, quieter operation of the V6. Especially since I would be moving from a Camry V6 to the Passat. However, when I go back for my next test drive, I do plan to drive them both and compare for myself. I agree that powerwise, you may not be able to tell much difference, but it seems like it would be noticeable operationwise, esp. regarding noise. At least to me, since I like the quiet of my Camry and I've gotten used to it.

The Passat is an impressive car. I can't wait for my test drive (and eventual purchase)!

SilverCrown

carsurfer

Hello e'one: I've been reading with much interest about passat 2002. bottom line, seems to me, camry more reliable than passat but camry, ugly chick; passat, playboy bunny and fast (oxymoron?). So, what to do, what to do? got a VW dealer to quote me $28,000 for a glx 2002, a/t, v6. Is that good,what w/ the holdback & all that blah, blah on negotiating a good deal? do I wait for the CD to be standard (and possible invoice hike?) I tell ya, I long for the days we were all stupid and thought $500.00 off the MSRP was a great bargain and could not wait to tell our pals about it. But, I must make a decision. I live in NJ, anyone has advice for me? I am looking to buy a 2002 V6, GLX automatic trans. I owned VW's in lifes past, always leaking and screwed up electric systems. But, playboy bunny is making me salivate. Input, please. Oh, is monsoon same as premium V? Thanks.

steveiowa

First, with all due respect, mmcbride1, unless the 2002 A4 is a different car from the 2001, the Passat has a LOT more interior room than the Audi. I started out wanting to own an A4 in the worst way and was deeply disappointed when I sat in one. I'm not a huge guy (6', 200 lbs...OK, maybe 210) but my right leg was jammed up against the console in the A4. When I got in the Passat, I was sold. The Passat even compares favorably with the A6 in terms of leg room. It wasn't the price, it was the value that drove me/attracted me to the Passat.

Truth be told, the Camrys and Accords have gotten a lot more cramped with each new model. For a second, I even considered a big American car like a Chrysler 300...god, I can't believe I said that out loud.

My choice came down to a Passat or an Avalon, and the price and handling sold me on the Passat.

Carsurfer, I think you've pretty much nailed it with your analysis. And I think the price you mentioned is pretty much in the ballpark, although I think a dealer's willingness to pull out the paring knife depends on the local market.

mmcbride1

Yes, the 2002 is bigger than the 2001. It is roughly the same size inside as the Passat (so I hear - I've never seen one). I'm 6'2" and 230 lb. I fit just fine in the A4. Yes, my right leg leans on the console, but it doesn't bother me like it apparently bothered you. The A4 fits me just fine, and I rarely have more than one passenger, so rear seat room (or the lack of it) isn't a problem for me.

To each his own. Like I said, the Passat is a great car (even moreso if compared to the Camry/Accord/Avalon/300M crowd). I was merely pointing out that if you want AWD, Audi can be less expensive than VW (significantly less expensive).

scirocco22

I seriously considered a Passat but for all the reasons Mike mentioned plus the fact that I had to have a 5-speed which obviously isn't available with the 4Motion ...and the fact that I'm truly sold on the 1.8T engine, the A4 fit perfectly for me: 1.8T with a 5-speed with quattro! And another reason which most don't care about one way or the other: an integrated analog voltmeter and oil temperature gauge. Those on the A4 forum know how important these are to me and could even sway me away from considering a 2002 A4 because those gauges are now missing ...sheesh, now that's pitiful on my part :-b

--'rocco

silvercrown

I totally sympathize with your dilemma. I'm in the exact same boat. Except I am now leaning heavily towards the 2002 Passat instead of the 2002 Camry. I just can't help myself, I've got Passat fever bad ....

I am totally in love with the GLX. It has everything I could ever want in a car. Just not sure if the budget could stretch that far. But who knows what could happen by next spring when I plan to buy ....

My Camry is like the reliable, predictable boy next door. Not bad looking, but no fireworks. But the Passat is like Shemar Moore, shirtless and glistening with baby oil. Have mercy! Simply irresistible! Sorry, pardon the drool .... (ha ha)

I can't believe I just said that. It must be the lateness of the hour. Good luck with your decision, carsurfer.

SilverCrown

rickrover

I've had my Passat for a couple of years now - I thought long and hard between the A4 and Passat - had to have the 5 speed and 1.8t because I planned to modify it from the beginning, the Passat has an amazing amount of support in the aftermarket. I really wanted quattro but Passat's extra room won out - I'm 6'3" and need a decent back seat. Now that the A4 is the same size as Passat I'll be looking there - I'll be in the market for a new car next year - A4 1.8t Quattro wagon may be it.

Here is a link to a site where you can see what I've done to my 2000 GLS Passat 1.8t:

http://216.219.188.102/lp_site/rwpassat/rw_passat.htm

birdboy1

Was in a similar situation and was waiting for the 2002 altima and camry. The turbo tiptronic trans. in addition to sexy styling won me over.

It is my perception from all the hundreds of postings I read that the Passat is greatly improved , and like hyundai, hopefully oil leaKs and electronic problems behind.
This weekend I averaged 32 mpg on my first long trip, My passat kept saying faster , faster, however the state troopers kept saying don"t think about it. for some brief stretches I did get up to 85, with lots more power waiting to be used. I came from a v6 and really do not find much difference other than the initial few seconds from a start in which I find myself using the manual mode.
I have a dealer upstate , if you want me to price out the car for you perhaps he can do better. I got several prices before buying and his was much, much less. he even delivered the car to my work 150 miles away in NYC.
Lastly, I got the Panasonic 6 cd changer for $245.00 including interface and shipping. It plugs right in and fits perfectly on the shelf in the trunk. I prefer a cd changer because you can load up and select without being distracted. The steering wheel remote works everything.
Furthermore, with our recent tragic events, I am sure that it is a buyers market and sales are flat.

bitburg

28K for a 2002 GLX seems like a pretty good price to me. That's without a CD player and 4Motion right? Back in June I was going to pay 30,100 for a 2001.5 GLX 4Motion. I'm looking to get one in Nov/Dec. I hope to pay around 30K for a 2002 with a CD player. From the sound of your deal I may be able to pull it off. I am also in NJ....what dealership did you go to?

bigd1964

I just purchased a Fresco/Beige '02 GLX v6A from Jim Ellis in Atlanta. The events of last week on top of an already weak economy helped me get the car for just a tad over invoice. Cheryl helped me buy the car in just a couple of hours from the time I called to the time I was driving off the lot.

In the two days I have driven the car, I have gotten many compliments. The "wow" factor is nice.

I have no regrets in spite of the fact that I have been looking to buy an A4 for quite some time. Considering that I am a city commuter, the GLX just seems more practical and just as nice over the long-haul.

I plan to add a 6 disk in-dash changer that I learned about on VWVortex.

BTW, thanks to all of you posters who help all of us lurkers.

pkradd

Tell us more.

mmcbride1

What kind of increases did you see with your chip? Have you had any problems with the engine since you chipped it? How about driveability?

silvercrown

Not to get too personal, but if you leased your GLX, what was the money factor and residual %age they gave you? I've been playing with some leasing numbers to see what monthly payment range exists for the GLX. A real-life reality check would be very useful.

I also want to know more about the in-dash CD changer.

Congratulations on your purchase. I'm sure you will continue to enjoy your new car. Happy (and safe) motoring!

SilverCrown

carsurfer

I am looking to buy a Passat in the next 48 hrs. Could you share how much you paid for your passat including destination? thanks, would help me a lot in my decision. I got a quote of 28k w/o CD or 4M, bitburg, from NJ dealer before tragic event. now the oily [non-permissible content removed] increased the price by $200.00. !? go figure. So, I am looking again and , of course, I would not recommend you oily [non-permissible content removed].

credit1

what happened to the passat pricing thread?

rickrover

No problems with the chip whatsoever. Since I have the Neuspeed low resrtiction exhaust and K&N air filter I have around 225 HP from my 1.8t. A low restriction intake and exhaust is extremely effective in a turbo with a chip. Drivability is identical to a non-chipped car minimal turbo lag, smooth power delivery - just a lot more torque and power. It actually gets a little better gas mileage as well, I average 25 mpg in mixed driving. The Neuspeed chip delivers the power in the middle to upper RPM ranges. There are other chips that increase the power in the lower ranges for drag racing - which I'm not interested in. An excellent source for Passat chip information is www.goapr.com - APR is an excellent aftermarket Audi and VW tuner. The HP increases you see for the 2002 1.8t VW's and Audi's (up to 180 HP) are strictly from VW/Audi modifying the engine management software, no modification to the engine is needed.

stgreen

What are people getting quoted a 2002, GLX, sedan, w/out 4motion???

also - i just saw today the 2002 stero set up and it is an indash CD and am/fm radion. the buttons are a bit different and the tape player is below the cd. also, there is no more little empty space for change and toll booth tickets..

again, what are some prices for:
2002 - Or for that matter 2001.5 (same car)
sedan
GLX
sedan, no 4motion.
no additional cd in trunk.

thanks

pkradd

There is a shelf on the left of the dash below the headlight switch with a nice rubber bottom that you can put change and other assorted stuff. There's also a shelf beneath the steering wheel that some people put their manual, but I find it a tight fit. Good for maps and gloves though.

nikonls6

Hey, i have a 2001.5 black glx 4motion. I really like it and i would like to add chrome exhaust tips to add even more style to the car. However, i have run into a problem. I noticed that the exhaust pipes point towards the ground. I am wondering if there is any away that i could attach the chrome tips without actually changing the muffler. I also do not understand the process of attaching chrome tips. Do you need to just screw them on or is a more complicated process? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you

bigd1964

I purchased my fresco GLX v6A (no cd or 4M) at around $28.1k with cash, so I don't have leasing info. In Atlanta, the fresco color is in higher demand and this was the only one they had on the lot. I probably could have gotten another color at invoice.

The in-dash 6 cd changer is being shipped from Germany and sold in a group buy through a Canadian company called PGPerformance. Right now they are going for $325 US + customs fees. Check out the Jetta or Passat threads at VWVortex to find the details. I don't know how to do a link... maybe someone else can find it and provide the link.

genghis721

A couple of questions...

Do they have a chip for the 6-cyl?

Do the chips void warranty?

rickrover

They do have chips for the V6 Passat, although you won't see the dramatic power gains of the 1.8t engine because the V6 is not turbo charged. There are even aftermarket chips for the tiptronic transmission that make it more responsive. Check out www.vwvortex.com for aftermarket tuning advice on anything VW or Audi.

torid110

Voiding the warranty is dependant on the dealer. If you have a good rapport with the service manager you shouldn't have any issues. One thing you can do is get a space ECU and get that chipped, so when you go in for service, you can swap out your ECU and the dealer should be none the wiser. Good luck.

rickrover

Torid is right, I have two local dealers that are chip freindly, no issues with warranty. The manufacturer has to prove that the failure was caused by the chip upgrade. It's interesting that neither dealer has seen an engine failure in the 1.8t for any reason. I haven't had one warranty claim in my 2000 Passat. The 1.8t is extremely over-engineered and can withstand significant increases in HP. Some ECU upgrades are undetectable by the dealer's diagnostic equipment like the Neuspeed and APR chips - of course once the service guy takes it out for a spin it is quite obvious.

I was at my dealer last night for the 20k service. I noticed a 2002 GLS Passat in stock with the new head unit - single disc CD and tape.

genghis721

for the feedback.

The reason that I asked is that the Passat I have test driven (AWD V6) is really lacking in power compared to the other cars we are testing (x-type, V70XC).

This is unfortunate, since the car is basically well made from my overview of it.

Kirk

pkradd

Unfortunately, that lack of power is only with the 4WD version. The other models are very peppy. Many reviews of the car have mentioned that the car is heavier than the standard models and thus suffers.

buckwheat

http://www.auto.com/reviews/tony20_20010920.htm

mmcbride1

12 mpg city? $40k VW? No manual tranny?

I could be wrong, but there's a lot of other $40k cars I'd take before this one.

buckwheat

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/06_01/06_21/index.shtml

esqknight

I know the which chip is better topic had been beaten to death here, audiworld and vwvortex. Still, as I understand it, the companies making the chips do have to redevelop / retune for the 1.8T now starting with 170 HP. I'm currently deciding between getting the 1.8T or the V6, and part of the decision will be whether I feel comfortable chipping the 1.8.

Has anyone had good or bad experience with different brand chips (APR, GIAC, Neuspeed, Upsolute, Autothority, etc.) for the new passat?