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560 SEL Mercedes, 3rd gen Camaros and Firebirds,
300M's on several occasions.
The 300M and Intrepids all have a transmission that sucks hp. In fact it is one of the most inefficent ones out there.
Chrysler even went so far as to put a ZF transmission in and it dropped the 0-60 time by half a second!
I never got beat by a 300M, but I did get beat 0-40mph by septugenerians in 3.8L equipped Buick Lesabres.
I destroyed dozens of Camaros on the 50-90mph sprint. Not even a contest.
Lastly, the 3.5L was never available in 1998.
It became available for the '99 model year and became standard at midyear.
My 2/99 build date had the 3.5L as a $500 option.
I got it into the shop today and they replaced the crankshaft sensor and fuel pump regulator as it was leaking. I will let you know if the fix works. Maybe it is not related to the PCS system as I first thought.
dbogey - You da Intrigue man, being on your 3rd one. I have a 2002 GL also w/ 11k mi, my wife has a 99 GL w/ 59k mi. It's a good driver's car and a steal of a deal to buy one now.
Mine has a build date of 5/99, and although there was no extra charge on the invoice, the base price of the vehicle was approximately $500 higher than an identically-equipped 1998 model. So all of us 3.5 owners are paying for the premium engine...
Thanks for the update and keep us potsed as to whether the pcs now stays off.
'99 GLS were available with the Shortstar first.
Then it moved down to the lower lines as an option. Cars produced after 3/99 had the 3.5L as the only engine available.
My GX had a sticker of exactly $23,000. Later cars optioned like mine had the $500 added to the base price but the total price was still 23K.
They refused to replace my crankshaft sensor even though I brought printouts from edmunds
showing that was the fix.
By the way, there are 2 crankshaft sensors.
Has anyone had this part replaced more than once on the same car (like the infamous alternator)? Hopefully, I won't have this problem again, but you would think with a 2002 model they would have fixed known problems. And Olds certainly would know this is a high failure rate item.
I was impressed with this dealer's service - it's a 3-year new Olds/Cad dealer.
Just the last two days, I'd noticed some hesitation when driving the car cold. Then one morning, I started it, and it quit on me while idling. No biggie, I just restarted it and went on my way. 30 minutes later the engine light comes on and the car feels very underpowered.
Well, I called 800 442 OLDS, had the car towed (nearest dealer is 14 miles from here) and they determined it was the crankshaft sensor. (I had assumed it was more likely to be some kind of air/fuel combustion problem, even though I'd heard about the crankshaft sensor glitches.)
This was at 43500 miles. Moral: If your engine gives you any hints that it's acting up, don't wait. Get thant crankshaft sensor checked!
On the net, I also found some interesting bargains. The first was a silvermist '98 GX with 98k miles and in new condition for $3,500, negotiable. Another was a loaded green '98 GLS with chrome wheels, leather, sunroof, CD, etc. and 78k miles for $4,195.
Pretty cheap if you ask me, and those few were not hard to find. I've been telling my father about these Intrigue's and the dirt cheap prices, but he still insists there must be some problem with the car in general, because it should keep more value than that. I've told him again it's actually one of GM's highest rated sedans, and my granmother's '99 has been quite trouble free itself.
I love driving the car so much and one can be had for such a low price, I'm still seriously thinking of buying one sometime. I mean, come on, an Intrigue for $3,500? Who wouldn't go for the deal, 98k miles or not?!
MSRP=23277
now=11638.50
3000 rebate
1000 bonus
1000 warranty rebate
1500 owner loyalty (is this for Olds or just GM)
2500 GM Gold Card
2638.50 Dealer Discount.
Overall I think the Intrigue is OK (one of the better GM sedans) but I do like the Shortstar and for anyone who qualifies for all these discounts to get one for like 12 grand is gonna get a hellova buy.
Gotta kill resale but even so, at that price you can put your own leather in it. At that low of a price those panel misfits in the dash go away pretty quick.
every new Oldsmobile comes with the additional confidence of a 5 year, 60,000 mile General Motors Protection Plan, or choose $750 additional cash on Alero or $1,000 additional cash on other models in lieu of the GMPP.
Also, the owner loyalty is for people who have an owner loyalty certificate for previously purchasing a GM vehicle (many of us on this board have one from our Olds purchase). And it also looks like they are assuming you will be using $2500 from your GM Gold Card, but a lot of people don't have a GM Gold Card, and if they do I doubt they have that many points. That ad is probably just a best case scenario to you get you in the door. But I believe the rebate, bonus, and dealer discount are all legit.
Sometimes I think GM should stand for "grossly mismanaged."
I wonder, which GM division is next??
It's amazing that one can complain about re-sale when you paid so little to begin with. FYI .. Re-sale is largely a function of new price paid not list price.
As for the V6 Accord, it is designed to run on regular gas, not premium. It can be had for around $25K, depending on your local market conditions. A brand new 98 Intrugue GLS was about the same price at the time. Lastly, the new Accord has a better interior and tigher body panel gaps than the Intrigue, which implies superior build quality. But, there is a 5 year design gap between the two vehicles-- the Accord's improvements should be expected. But, the Intrigue is much better looking than the Accord in terms of style-- on the outside at least.
As far as insurance is concerned, you got me on that one. The Accord is more expensive to insure due to its high theft rate.
My problem is my wife. She is the type who refuses to buy a used car. I have always bought off-lease program cars, as I prefer not to take the initial hit when a new car is driven off the lot. I have never purchased a brand-spanking new car. I have a feeling that when the Intrigue's time is up, the wife will protest my efforts to do this again. Currently, GM has nothing in its lineup with which I would want to replace my Intrigue.
Chevy's scream rental car to me.
Pontiac's are too plasticy.
Buicks are for older people.
Cadillacs are for more affluent older people.
I understand and respect that other people will think differently-- as these things are purely subjective.
I also understand GM is about to unlease a new midsize sedan product blitz over the next few months. Once details are released, I hope I can be pleasantly suprised. The actual products may change my mind, and I intend to give them a fair shake when the time comes.
You are a smart man. My wife is the same way, it has to be new.
I agree, there isn't much left from GM in the midsize segment. Intrigue was the best GM car for sure. I hope the new Malibu, Regal or Grand Prix will be good. Otherwise I may get a Maxima next car. Our next vehicle is likely an SUV or van though.
I also looked at Edmund's insurance rates for both the Intrigue and the Accord V-6. The Accord costs on average $101 more per year to insure. $8.50 a month. Big deal.
I'm not enthralled with the looks of the new Accord, but you have to admit it's got some great features you can't get on any mid-size GM at any price. Voice-activated satellite-navigation, DVD for the back seat, luxo-looking LED instrument panel, standard front/side/head airbags, 5-speed automatic, and a 5 or 6-speed manual if you want it. Along with the heated leather seats and dual climate control, it's a nice package.
No, it's not as cheap as an Intrigue, but they are dealing - no one is paying sticker. Only American and Korean car makers seem to be forced to sell cars at cost and/or 0% interest get them off the lots. Wonder why?
Anyway, the folks at Honda did pay tribute to GM -they made the rear end of the Accord look like a Buick!
redline : I love the new Envoy, but with gas prices heading where I think they are, we may look at a smaller one like the Escape, CR-V, VUE or upcoming Chev Equinox. CTS is real nice, but I can't afford that yet. Hopefully the new Malibu will be done well.
I was really interested in the Mazda 6 and was even thinking of waiting to get a car till it came out until I saw the interior dimensions. It's a much much smaller car than an Intrigue. I don't think any of us who've had Intrigues would be happy with the interior room. Still, I am interested in testing it (if I can fit in it with only 38 inches of headroom).
All kidding aside, I would put try to get an Olds rep(if they still have those) to look at your car.
If not see if they can give you some kind of a rebate or cash for another GM product. They will do that if things are bad enough.
The 6 is nice, inside and out, but I'd wait a little for reliability reports, as Mazda is way down the scale (something of a Ford, its parent company).
The new Grand Prix has been officially launched and it's dead gorgeous (at least in pictures), IMO. It's also the roomiest of this bunch, though more expensive than the 6. However, it has the 3.8 V6, not bad, at all, but no ShortStar. It'll probably be a couple of model years before it gets either the ShortStar heir, the 3.7 DOHC, if ever, or the Buick V6 heir, the 3.9 OHV.
I only hope it has the Oldsmobile-ish interior materials, as it seems to have in the pictures.
I don't have a problem with the cladding (I got myself a Bonneville), but most Intrigue owners will probably celebrate its new stripped look.
;^)evandro, I haven't seen very many pics of the new GP, but from what I've seen I like it. If the interior is a bit more upscale than the previous model, I might seriously consider it. The rather cheap looking interior is why I went with the Intrigue over the GP in the first place. Sometimes I wonder if I should have settled for the cheaper looking interior and gotten the dark blue GTP coupe I originally looked at. Speaking of Ponchos, the January issue of Automobile says the Bonneville GXP has been given the go ahead and it will have a 4.4 liter DOHC V8. I wonder if this is an enlarged version of the Aurora's 4.0 liter V8. Good move if it is so. The new Bonne also has been de-cladded and looks MUCH better than before.
oldsman : You must have a lemon. Hopefully they can fix that up for you. You are a brave man going into any mall now. I won't drive near one. Apparently some malls had 2 hours waits to get out of the lot around Toronto. Nightmare!!
Merry Christmas to all of you in Intrigue land!!
Went up to my local Best Buy yesterday afternoon.
A 25 mile round trip.
Another shopping center is adjacent to the BB. So I drive behind the Wal Mart where they do the unloading. Park at the end of the lot. Walk the 200' to the BB. Find my DVD's, get in the shortest line with people buying the least amount of stuff. Walk back to my car. Make a right turn out of the parking lot onto the highway. Change lanes into the median, and make a U turn right before the traffic light. Get back on the interstate and am at my office in 55 minutes.
I am so good.
As you can imagine I get teased mercilessly at the office because they know how I can be about waiting in line.
Hey, by the way we got our Envoy XL today. Sweet!
Couldn't be happier with both vehicles.
BTW folks... I HATE this new format. Very small text, what are they thinking??
My wife and I picked it up after our beater got totaled a couple weeks ago. Three hours after we bought it in Phoenix, we were in the snow in the mountains northeast of the city. Fog lights lit the night beautifully. I have never been able to see the trees with fresh snow in such good light. We were stopping to help everybody who was stuck, mostly because we weren't stuck.
We must have passed 50 cars and trucks on the side of the road. Granted most people who live in the warm parts of AZ don't know how to drive when the roads slick up, but the car was performing better than any I've driven in the snow and ice. Traction control was great. ABS was great. Climate control kept the car warm. My wife was able to keep her coat on and my side didn't have to be so cold thanks to the dual zone. I was really happy with the car.
Just got back, the roads were clear coming back and left the wife with the fam for a couple extra days. Took the opportunity to drive the car a little faster coming back. Picked up a fuzzbuster. Probably going to need it from here on out. Car has been picture perfect. Practically drove itself on those windy mountain roads. My supra with four wheel independent suspension wasn't as smooth.
Can't wait for warmer weather so I can use the sunroof.
Envoy, did anyone see the recent C&D SUV comparison which included the Envoy. They ranked it last, but their test included more expensive and upscale SUVs. The Envoy was by far the lowest priced one in the test and the Lexus GX470 was about $12K more and the overall average price of the others was in the 40K range, so I think the Envoy was a little out of place. As for an SUV, I like the Envoy and the Trailblazer alot.
:^Done2one : Most real SUV comparisons put Envoy on top. Only downside with the Envoy was the initial teething problems it had. I think most of them are licked now though.
Actually, when you look at the C&D comparo criteria, it made sense to include the Envoy. They are looking at the "medium-premium" market, smaller than the Tahoe/Expedition, but bigger than the Rendezvous/LS300, etc., between $40-50K. And with leather, DVD players, - the stuff most people seem to want in their "trucks-with-leather", driven 99.9 of the time to work and the mall. This is the only GM SUV that meets this criteria -even GMC's website says the XL SLT has "all the ammenities and luxurious leather" so it looks like they themselves are trying to target the Acura and Lexus SUV owner. Fair game.
And C&D was fair - they did praise the inline 6, but it wasn't enough to overcome being "the clumsiest vehicle through the lane-change maneuver" (not a good comment on a vehicle class prone to roll-over), the slowest skidpad grip score and an interior that looked so cheap they said "If the GM design department can't do any better than this, then perhaps a lateral transfer to the Wal-Mart interior decoration staff might be in order". Ouch!
I agree with C&D saying the Envoy does look good when compared around it's $33K base price - where you'll find the Explorer/4Runner/Pathfinder. They acutally had much nicer things to say about the Trailblazer in a previous issue - but again that was in contrast to the Explorer class, and it was fully-loaded at $34K, not 40K. Frankly, I would take the Trailblazer over the Envoy, but I'd also wait until to see what the new the V-8 Buick Ranier (re-badged Bravada) drives like when it comes out next month. I've already read the interior is nicer than either the Chevy or GMC.
Again singing the praises of the Intrigue, one of it's appeals is the interior - where GM obviously made special effort (breathing door panels and some dashboard gaps aside) to create a classy looking AND feeling interior.. Virtually every other GM car and truck - Chevy, Buick and especially Pontiac , have poorly designed interiors with cheap materials that scream "PLASTIC". hopefully, the Intrigue design team has been reatined, and will use their expertise in another division.
I didn't mean to imply the C&D comparo was fake or anything.
Rainier should be nice, I like the Bravada interior better than either the TB or Envoy.