According to the dealer, the reason it took so long was they were waiting on the part. Whether this is BS or not, I'm not sure but they said that the repair should just take about 2 hours once the part comes in. The "waiting on parts" was the same story I got last summer when it took a different dealer 15 days to rebuild the tranmission.
b4z, speaking of the tranmission last June it was rebuilt and then just a little over a month ago the pressure control solenoid was replaced, yet the slipping and "maple syrup like" 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts when cold continue. I agree it should not do it when cold, hell it shouldn't do it ever and thats what ticks me off because after the pressure control solenoid was replaced and the problem continued I took it back in and explained in detail when and what it does. So they let it sit for several hours and then drove it and it shifted fine and they said they could pull no codes. When the problem occurs is when the car is physically cold like sitting overnight or at the office all day on a cool day. Letting it sit for just 3 hours or so will not cause the problem to come back. Oh and when I started it up this morning, the low coolant light came on and stayed on for about 10 minutes. I forgot to have them check this while it was in for the P/S leak(more like I was afraid to as they might have to keep it another week) as it began doing this a few days before the P/S problem. When I arrived at work, I popped the hood and the level of coolant in the surge tank was at the "Full Cold" mark and not the full hot. I had been driving for about 15 minutes and the temp gauge was at the normal operating mark so the engine had warmed up. Power steering pump still whines a bit when doing low speed turns and also(I'm assuming it is the P/S pump) made a loud whine when I first started the car up. In fact, I first thought that an animal or something had gotten caught in the belt as the noise was very loud and just for a moment. My 89 Olds Touring Sedan used to make a similar noise when it was cold, but it had over 115K on it so I didn't worry too much. But at 25K and still making hefty monthly payments, I want my car to sound refined and quiet when starting it up and making slow speed turns in a parking lot I'm going to give it a day or so then call the dealer back and set up another appointment to have this checked and also have the tranmission problem looked into. Any bets on how long they will keep it then?
Took her for a midnight drive last night. Actually, I had to go to the store for some milk and coffee, so I took the "long way" there and back and I will say, the Intrigue is a totaly different beast from the Alero. Now the Alero had grown on me a bit and with a smooth revving DOHC V6, an Alero would be downright fun as the smaller dimensions and lighter weight make it able to really whip around corners. And the tighter interior dimensions make you feel more connected with the car. But the Intrigue is much more refined. One thing we all probably take for granted is the instrument cluster backlighting. While the Alero's cluster is styled nearly identical, the backlighting at night is more yellowish. When I first started driving the Alero, I thought the cluster didn't look as upscale as the Intrigue's and last night I was reminded why I so still like the car despite it's problems. I probably said this when I first bought the car then got used to it, but the IP backlighting is nearly as good and looks nearly as upscale as the electroluminescent gauges you see in Cadillac and Lexus vehicles. The warm embrace of the heated seat and some classical holiday music(the CD was still in the player from when I last drove the car before Christmas) playing through the Bose sound system made the long midnight drive enjoyable. Oh and the refined sound of the DOHC V6(marred only by the P/S pump whine) was beautiful music to my ears after 2 weeks of the old "Twin Cam" four in the Alero. Again, hard acceleration is accompanied by a refined, mechanical roar rather than a loud, buzzy thrashing sound.
My '98 w/76K hasn't spent more than a day at the dealer and only on two occasions in four and a half years.
It's getting to the point where the problems you are continuing to experience are turning into obsessions. The general consenus of your fellow posters on this board seems to be that you have a dog - and it's time to take it to the pound and have it put to sleep. Life is too short to be constantly unhappy with your car.
Your Intrigue reminds me of the old Jaguar - you couldn't fine a more loyal set of owners who sang it's high praises - when it was running right - which was about 25% of the time.
Seriously, trade your Intrigue in for another low-mileage one - you couldn't possibly get one built worse that yours appears to be. I'd rather keep my paid-for '98 than be paid to take your newer one!
IF this was a movie it would be funny, However you are suffering big time.
Your whine sounds like your pump was damaged when the hose let go. Perhaps they did not bleed the system properly.
Turning the wheel from end to end a couple of times while the engine running should clean out the air. Of coarse the driving that you have done would have probably have eliminated it by now. Hard to believe they gave it back to you like that and did not anticipate that the pump would have suffered damaged due to lack of fluid.
When they rebuilt the tranny did they also change the PCM(Power control Module )? Did they try changing the PCM before they tore into the tranny. It seems logical to me that if you had your tranny rebuilt and the same problems exists after the fact , then perhaps the tranny wasn't the problem or maybe all of the problem.
It is hard to say if a module damaged the tranny or did the tranny damage the module. If you know what i mean. The chicken and the egg thing. Perhaps you should hit them up for a new rebuilt tranny from gm factory (not done locally)and a new PCM.
Either way the slamming that is now going on has problem jerked around the clutch plates again.
Saw where GM said the new Malibu will be produced in Kansas City. Is that the same as Fairfax - where the Intrigue was built?
Also saw photos of the Equinox. Looks to be smaller than the Trailblazer - more of a competitor to the Ford Escape or Honda CR-X. Anyone seen any deminsions vs. the Trailblazer/Envoy?
As a point of reference, I had my tranny rebuilt (burned out OD clutch) by the Chevy dealer I bought the car from in 4 days, in on Monday, returned on Thursday. It would have been done Wednesday but when they test drove it, they noticed the ISS clunk and replaced that before returning it.
My 2000 is coming up on 40K miles and other than the above items, migrating front door trim (twice) and loose shift handle, I haven't had any problems. All were fixed under warranty.
oldsman : Sounds like BS to me. GM parts flow fast. The longest I've ever had to wait for a part was 2 days. Even if it was dropped in the mail it couldn't take 13 days.
b4z / TSchramm : The plant is not the best but that said, GP was always a bit better than Intrigue. A lot of a cars quality also depends on design, build process, material and a hundred other things. Given the plant will be re tooled and building an all new car, I don't think one should count out the quality yet. Equinox will be built at CAMI which has good quality, not sure what Suzuki will do with it's half of the plant yet.
Maxima's horn isn't wimpy at all (it's as loud or louder than Intrigue) but there's a definite Japanese aural quality about it. It has two different notes in it which helps it be heard. It's when I hear the Maxima's horn that I'm most reminded that I now drive a Japanese product. Since I installed the K&N, the engine acceleration noise has change to a throaty, almost American V8 sounding push.
The scariest thing about the Intrigue horn is that it's not intuitive in an emergency (unless your instinct is to punch the center of the steering wheel with tremendous force). I recall at least two instances when I needed the Intrigue's horn in emergency situations and it wouldn't work. I finally realized that you basically have to punch the steering wheel with a lot more force than you'd think is necessary. The Maxima's on the other hand can be depressed using your thumb.
While not unpleasant, the Intrigue's instrument cluster lighting was always too bluish for my tastes (which is funny considering the brochures distinctly show pure white backlighting). I was pleased to drive my Maxima home the first time with white backlighting. Also love the entry/exit lighting on the doors for the ground but miss the under-dash interior illumination. It's so funny how many tradeoffs there are. Just one: I LOVE the Maxima's auto down AND auto up driver AND front passenger windows but REALLY MISS the Intrigue's automatic door locking feature when you put the car into gear. (I had mine programmed to lock all doors when into gear and just unlock driver's door into park. Then, if I had passengers, it was so intuitive to unlock the doors because the door lock button was right by the door handle. The Maxima's lock/unlock is down by the power windows and is counterintuitive (forward for lock and back for unlock).
When I read about a number of you receiving a DVD, I wanted one too. For whatever reason - despite buying 2 new Intrigues in the last 4 years - I was not sent one. So I went to the Olds website and requested brochures. About a week later I get this fancy package delivered FedEx (must have cost a fortune!!). It is a nice keepsake but sad to see no Intrigue in the lineup. Now all I need is a DVD player!
Well I've owned my 2000 GL for nine months now. I thought I might share my experience so far. My car was built 9/99. I bought it with 19460 miles. It was used a loaner from the dealership where I purchased it. Not perfect, it is in nice shape. Sunroof, rear spoiler, hand painted (beige) pinstripes match the beige cloth interior. Exterior is midnight blue, so it is a sharp combination. Before my purchase, the following repairs took place according to the service records. Resurface rotors 15k, replace power steering and rack 17k. Normal oil changes/rotation at normal intervals. Work done since I took delivery: Right rear window inoperative: electric motor replaced. (this didn't work when I bought it and I knew it would be covered under warranty). Dash pad replaced because dash was curling away from center A/c vent. Looks great, but now I have a squeak at the instrument bezel when I hit expansion joints and other like sharp bumps. Fog lamp burned out, ISS lube, battery replaced (leaking at post and dripping acid in my garage). All covered by warranty. Normal maintenance: oil change/filter (3 so far), 4 wheel alignment, wiper blade replacement (do it yourself, don't ask what I paid), tires replaced at 28000 (yokohoma avid touring.) Sounds like alot, yet the car has been a pleasure. It doesn't use any oil, stick still shows full at oil change, I'm getting 23-26mpg. I do like to excercise the engine more often than I should, and what a sweet engine it is. Quiet, muted growl, and always ready to pounce. About tires, the original Goodyear LS still had 5/32 tread, but they hadn't been rotated and sounded like snow tires. Even though they didn't vibrate, I like quiet. So I researched Tire Rack and Consumer Reports. They both gave a favorable rating on the Yokohama Avid Touring. It is "s" rated like the Eagle LS. The tread pattern is similar to the Michelin mxv4 plus that we have on my wife's Passat. The Yokohamas are priced considerably less than Goodyear or Michelin. The seem to handle well and are quiet and smooth. Most of my driving is done in town so I don't know how they would handle in aggressive situations. But they're worth considering if the Eagle LSs are satisfactory to you. Enough for now. I am enjoying my Intrigue.
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
Sorry to be late on this, and I'd like to wish everyone a belated happy new year. I just saw the front-end shots of the new Maxima and in the immortal words of Phil Rizzuto, holy cow. I had seen some earlier shots buit they were from the rear and side, and the car looked pretty good. That face, though, is something only a mother could love. Why are all new cars so ugly?
As someone said, though, look for the car magazines to praise it. Did anyone see this months Car and Driver? Surprise, surprise: the new Accord won top spot in their sedan comparo despite it's awful styling. I have about given up on C&D as a source of credible reviews after seeing so much of this "if it's new and from Japan it has to be great" attitude.
I saw that about the accord but really caught my eye was the Dodge Magnum. Now thats a car. Not to happy about the trucklike front end but everything else is pretty incredible.
The new Accord is very nice inside and is very refined. Nothing sporty though, definitely softer than Intrigue. I see why it won, the refinement is really obvious.
That all said I would not buy one. Looks and prices are not appealing to me.
I've had my car since Monday afternoon and while the steering pump doesn't whine as loud as it did when I first got it back, turning the wheels sharply at a slow speed(such as parallel parking)does create a whine which is very noticeable. I plan to have this checked when I take the car in for the tranmission.
TSchramm, funny you mention the Jaguar comparison as I've used that analogy before. Several of my co-workers have asked how I could put up with such a car and even want to drive it another day. While I am getting to the point of not trusting the car(have a car break down at the mall two days before Christmas and you'll know), I do still enjoy driving her. And she looks oh so good glistening in the sun after a nice bath. Nonetheless, I think I'm done with Intrigues. Unless maybe I got get a final 500 Aurora at a killer price(and I do mean a very good price).
Speaking of the final 500 Aurora, I just got the Olds info packet that includes the DVD. All I can say is why did Olds not run ads like this and mail out a DVD like that with brochures the past 5 years?? Whoever did the fliming of the cars did a great job. It almost made me want to go buy one:) I would have loved to have seen the Intrigue in that. The info also included a small sheet on the final 500 Aurora. I like the different style wheels and the Ruby red paint it will have. And it would be neat to own one of the truly last Olds(and probably the best) models built.
C&D comparo, typical of C&D these days. I did like seeing the Mazda 6 right up there at second place as it truly is a great sedan. Had they tested the V6 6, it would have beaten the Honda hands down. Speaking of comparos, anyone see MT's three way with the 6, Altima, and Jetta? Other than the performance, the Altima didn't really seem all that impressive. Both MT and C&D seemed to have problems with the quality of the interior. For a moment I thought I was reading an Edmund's review of the Intrigue. I'm still not a Mazda convert, but I do belive that they have done something right with the new 6. Since my tastes lean a bit more upscale anyway, I'll probably be looking at the Cadillac CTS or Saab 9-3, but for someone wanting to replace their Intrigue and stay in the mid 20s price range, the 6 is definitely a car to check out.
Today, test drove with a friend an 03 Accord, Camry, Altima, Impala LS, 3.2TL.
I was impressed by the Accord actually. Other than the odd front and rear looks, this is a very well put together car. Suspension is more taught than previous versions, it handled as well as my Intrigue and had loads of power. A well put together piece. Good headroom in the rear.
Camry was super bland. Well put together and quiet but just bland.
Altima 3.5se, just as I had remembered, had a cheap interior, and was rough around the edges compared to the other imports. Best power though.
Impala LS.. Well after seeing exposed screw heads and cheap switchgear (and the worst leather he could remember seeing) my friend didn't want to drive it but he did. Did not like the motor, felt it was too rough and loud under acceleration. Very cold weather probably didn't help. Felt like it was engineered in a different era than the Accord. How do they expect to get MSRP with this thing. Why have such a high MSRP. Oh well. Went to Pontiac Buick dealer after, sat in interior of Regal and GTP, said no way and left.
3.2TL. Liked it, but not enough over the Accord to justify the $5500 price difference. Was a better deal than the loaded Camry though for the small $1,500 price difference. Headroom was pretty marginal.
None of them had very good audio.
Felt good to be back in my Intrigue, still happy with it after 3 years. Wish the Mazda 6 was in Canada, hurry up already.
Your observations based on the test drives you made pretty much mirror what the car mags are saying about the very same cars.
Some people on this board have a knee-jerk reaction to C&D and other mags rating the Accord as the #1 sedan in thier multi-car comparisons.
Of course, none of these people have never actually DRIVEN the Accord, but because it is Japanese, and many here are Japanese-phobic, They suspect that the car mags are part of some "vast right-wing conspiracy" to discredit American cars. As you stated , they, too, would probably be surprised at how good a car the Accord really is, especially the EX V-6. Funky looking, especially from behind, but I have found it to be FAR more refined than the Intrigue. And obviously better-built.
What is surprising is how far the Camry has fallen from grace. The past few articles on it have buried it in the pack. It's no longer the stand-out it used to be.
I've driven the Altima, and agree with your opinion , as with the Impala. Nothing reeks of the lowest-end GM product that Chevrolet is than the Impala. I've driven several as rental cars, and , while they are not ugly, they can hardly be endured on the inside.
Looking forawrd to seeing the Malibu at the Detroit auto show next week. Won't be able to drive one, of course, but being built on the same platform as the Saab 9-3 is intriguing...no pun intended.
The Acura TL is to be completey redone for 2004, so I'll wait and see. Supposed to have 260HP next year. That could make it worth a few more grand than the Accord EX V-6.
Sounds like exactly the same comments I have on each of those cars. The Altima is great looking and really fast, but everything inside and out is thin and cheap. The Impala, well, it's really not a looker, it has a horrible interior, and the engine, though still one of my favorites, is nothing compared to many imports. The Camry is built very well and is made for soothing, silent transportation, but nothing more and not a sporting bone in its body. The Accord is just awesome all around, and the best of everything.
My last drive in an accord was my bosses' EXv6 a couple years ago.....a really refined car, but too unexciting for my tastes.
The Intrigues I have driven have left for the most part positive impressions on me. They are the better of GM's mid size offerings. Too bad they are killing it.
I wouldn't buy an Accord, but I would consider one with a 200 dollar a month lease I see advertised. I don't dispute its a fine car. Maybe I must drive the new coupe with v6 and 6 speed. Accords just lack.....something.
Too bad they never made an Intrigue performance model, maybe that would have saved the car.
Currently if I were to buy, its either a Mazda6, Saab 9/3, or Nissan Maxima or Altima. Those who buy the Intrigue will get a good car, not class leading, but good nonetheless.
I'm considering two of the cars you are as well(9-3 and Mazda 6) as well as the Caddy CTS. In 1998 when it came out, the Olds was pretty class leading, but today it is midpack. Still one of the best looking midsize sedans on the road though. And find me a V6(other than maybe jg28's Maxi with the K&N) in this class that sounds so good. BTW, have you been in the Mazda 6 forum? You think this one used to be bad with the Intrigue v Honda lovers, that one is pathetic.
Impala, I don't see what is so bad about the Impala's interior. It doesn't justify the MSRP price, but then again Chevy's are traditionally sold at below MSRP. They pretty much mark them up to mark them down as thats what the average customer expects. Anyway, I had an Impala as a rental one time and while it was not as user friendly as the Intrigue, it was decent. I loved the instrument cluster lighting at night. It is a true white with red needles, very much like the electroluminescent clusters you find on a Lexus or Cadillac. For a family sedan, its not a bad pick as it has loads of interior space. I still prefer the Intrigue as my personal car though. It is looking like alot of what was good in the Intrigue is being fused into the new GP. One thing, is the GP going to be built at a different factory than where it is now? If so, that is a good thing. The Intrigue and the current GP are built at the same plant and both seem to suffer build quality issues that the other W-body sedans do not. I had a Century as a rental when the Intrigue was in the shop a little while back and while it's driving dynamics sucked, the car had a more solid feel to it. I also noticed this about the Impala when I had one as a rental.
You said the Accord is just awesome all around, may I suggest a test drive of a Mazda 6s. It does pretty much everything an Accord does and also looks good while doing it. Too bad the Intrigue didn't live on to see a second generation. I'd love to have seen how it would have done against the new Accord and the 6.
Had leather so bad I would much rather have cloth. Accord wasn't great but it was as good, maybe a little better than the Intrigue leather which was a notch above the Impala and GP. When you sit in an Accord and play with the dampened storage little doors, 6 disc in dash changer, the tight tolerences on gaps, etc, then go straight to an Impala at a dealership a block away, the difference is all too obvious unfortunately.
I have been reading this thread for the last 2 days and have kept my mouth shut...until now.
I have to agree with you guys on the MSRP part of the Impala. I don't get it. The dfference between my '01 Impala's MSRP and a '03 Impala is $2000! Thats a $1000 increase per year.
To put that in perspective a 60K plus Lexus LS 430 has had an increase of about $500 per year.
Anyway the transaction price on any GM car is well below it's MSRP.
I paid $21,087 for my Impala. A $4500 discount.
For 21K I could not buy any of the cars mentioned in the other posts.
The leather has worn extremely well and looks much better than the cloth, plus I have heated seats, which is not available on the cloth.
It has a bigger back seat than the intrigue and can carry my family of four (none less than 6' tall) and has a huge trunk.
None of the cars mentioned can do that. I have enjoyed my Impala these last 19 months and it has been in the shop twice for repairs compared to the intrigue which was in about 12 times. Much better built than the intrigue, more solid too, interior is not as nice, but it is a Chevy.
The Impala may not measure up to the cars you guys mentioned but it is a full size car and that carries a premium.
No doubt the Impala is a more practical car for a family of four with tall kids. I just wish GM made a car for those who want a midsize with a very nice finished interior and exterior without moving up to the Aurora or Caddy price range. Cars that can be the same price as the Accord, Mazda 6, Passat, or Maxima and be as nice or nicer quality inside. With the amount of models GM makes you would think they would have several. I guess the Saab 9-3 is the closest thing to that car for now. Malibu dash/console especially looks better than the 04 GP interior, which is not my style (I'm not into Nascar, and to me like the Monte it is a Nascar look fan car) any more than the leSabre is.
The Impala is a very American car, inside and out. The styling and interior layout is more traditional. The Intrigue was built to be an import fighter. The interior looks very much like they ripped off the last generation Accord. I think the Impala does a great job, but it's definitely not for the more import-oriented buyer.
My thoughts exactly! I remember a quote from C&D back when the redesigned 2001 Chrysler Sebring sedan came out. They liked it overall, but weren't too enthused over the mostly hard and cheap feeling interior and less than perfect refinement. They said this: "We're not asking for a C-class at Accord prices, but how about an Accord at Accord prices." Many American and various import cars are priced competitively, but just don't offer the stellar combination of it all like the Accord does. Not 100% perfect, but just about as close as you can get at its price level.
Yet another car with a very refined (though somewhat small by American standards) interior, motor and assumed excellent handling coming out is the TSX (since it is basically a sport tuned version of the European Accord).. Come on GM, give us something that competes with this and the Mazda6.
I really wish there was a Gen 2 Intrigue to look at.
I pray GM fixes the Impala soon. While the quality is decent, the refinement of the interior, ride and fit and finish leave much to be desired. The LS is definitely the only model worth looking at. Base car is brutal.
I have heard very good things about the new GP both from an interior and performance standpoint. Should be out in a few months so take a look.
Accord is hard to beat right now. Still don't like the looks and price much. It's also too common, I like lower volume cars so I don't blend in too much.
The new Accord just screams BLAND. No, the previous generation did that. The current one screams UGLY! Worse yet, it does so inside and out, in your and other's faces!
I'd never want to be caught dead in an Accord. It lacks zest and personality. Yes, it is well-built, but I have a personal relationship with my cars. It's not like buying an appliance, which I expect will just do its thing without me having to worry about anything when I just turn the button on it, as with chest freezers & driers. No, I need to establish a dialog with my cars, from when I'm approaching them to when I'm throwing them around.
No Camry or Accord has ever given me the thrill of driving, not even the current generations. And now the new Accord is an eye sore and the Camry, resoundingly bland. If they were appliances, they'd be poor performing appliances, well-built or not.
That's what I expect from my cars. Others may meet their needs differently, which is just fine, but no, thanks. I'd rather get more of a car for less elsewhere.
The Accord is bland and looks artificially bloated. The previous car was no looker, but at least it wasn't bland. That said, I really like the interior. Honda is not one to take chances on style, but Accord is definitely better than Toyota. The new Camry is just ugly.
Wonder what is going on with the Regal? I have heard the car is going up scale, kind of an American Lexus. Should be interesting.
Their interiors have gone downhill quite a bit. I think they have farmed out the interior design to the manufacturers of the interior parts.
Intrigue's was the best of the Wbodies. When I first saw the Impala's interior it was quite a shocker due to the number of cutlines and dashvents.
However I don't pay much attention now. Impala doesn't have the console creaks and A pillar creaks that my intrigue had.
Impala is missing the rear vents. Backseat passengers complain about being a little too warm in the summer so the front passengers have to be a little cooler. Climate control is not even an option.
Lutz has designed a beautiful interior for the GTO and I hope that it trickles down to the other lines. I just hope he doesn't put cheap feeling materials in the cars like he did for Chrylser. I remember sitting in an LHS and putting my elbow on the top of the console as i got in. My elbow practically went through the lid.
Have not had a chance to compare it to the Monaro interior. Did they change it much? It does look good. Canada does not appear to be getting this car, initially anyways.
You make a good point about people "dissing" cars they've never driven. Most people do have to get past the looks, however. If right off the bat, you think a car is ugly, you'll probably never get inside one and drive it.
That issue probably hurt the Intrigue. Not that people thought it was ugly, but that it was just another GM sedan, the Cutlass redesigned, the sister to the Regal, so they never got behind the wheel. Yet, that's where and when the sale would have been made, right? After driving it.
The reverse is the bigger problem, though, Lots of people get hooked on how cool and sexy a car looks, and will tolerate lesser performance or quality aspects. I think the Fiat Spider is cool and sexy. I'd be an idiot to buy it as my daily driver, however.
Getting a thril from looking at your cool car gleaming in the dirveway is fine, I guess. But how it performs, handles, and especially how trouble-free it is means more to me.
That's why Honda keeps being number 1. It's not the coolest looking car in the parking lot, but my '03 EX V-6 takes a back seat to no Intrigue from behind the wheel. Period. I didn't buy it at a "depseration" price, but I got what I wanted. And I'll sell it for 80% of what I paid for it in two years, like I just did with my '00 EX. Technology and style are changing so fast in the auto industry, I couldn't contain myself for 4 or 5 years before wanting another new one, so resale is important to me.
It's hard to tell from the pictures how the materials chosen feel to the touch, but they sure look much better than the ones in the current GP, for example.
I'd say the same from the pictures of the new GP, a much needed updated interior.
You hit the nail on the head with the Accord!! Last gen was just bland looking(not always a bad thing) but the new one is ugly. Doesn't that huge "H" emblem belong on an SUV? Speaking of, anyone seen the Element? All I can say is I don't want to hear people criticizing Pontiac for the Aztek anymore. The Accord is a beauty compared to the Element. And Honda says their target demogrpahic is 22 year old, unemployed males. First off, the only unemployed 22 year old males that will be able to afford a $20+K car are college students with well heeled parents. Now maybe at Ivy League schools trends are different, but when I was in college just a few years back(state university), the guys(and gals) with rich mommies and daddies went for BMWs, higher end SUVs, and VWs. I don't think too many preppy frat boys(yeah, I'm stereotyping) are going to want to drive a mini UPS van to their next formal. Honda will sell some Elements as their are probably some WORKING 20 something males out there that will appreciate the vehicle's utility and reasonable price, but I don't think it's going to be on any top selling list.
I found my first post a couple of weeks after yours, March 9, 2000 in Intrigue III. It was a much busier topic back then/a lot more Intrigue owners were in here. You are right though, a lot of brake, ISS, and migrating trim issues back then.
Honda has no intention of the Element becoming a sales success. The "car" was produced for one reason only - as a marketing message that Honda is more than economy cars, sedans, and minivans.
Honda's typical introduction to the younger market has been via the Civic. Now, they are trying to go for the side of the "Generation Y" that Nissan also seems to be trying to appeal to, (and with limited success, Pontiac, with the Vibe) with it's own radically-designed cars and trucks.
I doubt Honda will ever make any money on the Element project, and that probably suits them fine. They are getting a heck of a lot of publicity designed to appeal to a younger market. They don't care if the receding hairline-types take notice.
But I'll be willing to bet that Honda will sell more Elements than Pontiac ever will of that ugly thing called the Aztec.
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b4z, speaking of the tranmission last June it was rebuilt and then just a little over a month ago the pressure control solenoid was replaced, yet the slipping and "maple syrup like" 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts when cold continue. I agree it should not do it when cold, hell it shouldn't do it ever and thats what ticks me off because after the pressure control solenoid was replaced and the problem continued I took it back in and explained in detail when and what it does. So they let it sit for several hours and then drove it and it shifted fine and they said they could pull no codes. When the problem occurs is when the car is physically cold like sitting overnight or at the office all day on a cool day. Letting it sit for just 3 hours or so will not cause the problem to come back. Oh and when I started it up this morning, the low coolant light came on and stayed on for about 10 minutes. I forgot to have them check this while it was in for the P/S leak(more like I was afraid to as they might have to keep it another week) as it began doing this a few days before the P/S problem. When I arrived at work, I popped the hood and the level of coolant in the surge tank was at the "Full Cold" mark and not the full hot. I had been driving for about 15 minutes and the temp gauge was at the normal operating mark so the engine had warmed up. Power steering pump still whines a bit when doing low speed turns and also(I'm assuming it is the P/S pump) made a loud whine when I first started the car up. In fact, I first thought that an animal or something had gotten caught in the belt as the noise was very loud and just for a moment. My 89 Olds Touring Sedan used to make a similar noise when it was cold, but it had over 115K on it so I didn't worry too much. But at 25K and still making hefty monthly payments, I want my car to sound refined and quiet when starting it up and making slow speed turns in a parking lot I'm going to give it a day or so then call the dealer back and set up another appointment to have this checked and also have the tranmission problem looked into. Any bets on how long they will keep it then?
It's getting to the point where the problems you are continuing to experience are turning into obsessions. The general consenus of your fellow posters on this board seems to be that you have a dog - and it's time to take it to the pound and have it put to sleep. Life is too short to be constantly unhappy with your car.
Your Intrigue reminds me of the old Jaguar - you couldn't fine a more loyal set of owners who sang it's high praises - when it was running right - which was about 25% of the time.
Seriously, trade your Intrigue in for another low-mileage one - you couldn't possibly get one built worse that yours appears to be. I'd rather keep my paid-for '98 than be paid to take your newer one!
Good luck!
IF this was a movie it would be funny, However you are suffering big time.
Your whine sounds like your pump was damaged when the hose let go. Perhaps they did not bleed the system properly.
Turning the wheel from end to end a couple of times while the engine running should clean out the air. Of coarse the driving that you have done would have probably have eliminated it by now. Hard to believe they gave it back to you like that and did not anticipate that the pump would have suffered damaged due to lack of fluid.
When they rebuilt the tranny did they also change the PCM(Power control Module )? Did they try changing the PCM before they tore into the tranny. It seems logical to me that if you had your tranny rebuilt and the same problems exists after the fact , then perhaps the tranny wasn't the problem or maybe all of the problem.
It is hard to say if a module damaged the tranny or did the tranny damage the module. If you know what i mean. The chicken and the egg thing. Perhaps you should hit them up for a new rebuilt tranny from gm factory (not done locally)and a new PCM.
Either way the slamming that is now going on has problem jerked around the clutch plates again.
Also saw photos of the Equinox. Looks to be smaller than the Trailblazer - more of a competitor to the Ford Escape or Honda CR-X. Anyone seen any deminsions vs. the Trailblazer/Envoy?
It will take them 3 model years to get it right.
talk to oldsman01. he will surely disagree
You know, give them the benefit of the doubt.
LOL.
My 2000 is coming up on 40K miles and other than the above items, migrating front door trim (twice) and loose shift handle, I haven't had any problems. All were fixed under warranty.
b4z / TSchramm : The plant is not the best but that said, GP was always a bit better than Intrigue. A lot of a cars quality also depends on design, build process, material and a hundred other things. Given the plant will be re tooled and building an all new car, I don't think one should count out the quality yet. Equinox will be built at CAMI which has good quality, not sure what Suzuki will do with it's half of the plant yet.
The scariest thing about the Intrigue horn is that it's not intuitive in an emergency (unless your instinct is to punch the center of the steering wheel with tremendous force). I recall at least two instances when I needed the Intrigue's horn in emergency situations and it wouldn't work. I finally realized that you basically have to punch the steering wheel with a lot more force than you'd think is necessary. The Maxima's on the other hand can be depressed using your thumb.
While not unpleasant, the Intrigue's instrument cluster lighting was always too bluish for my tastes (which is funny considering the brochures distinctly show pure white backlighting). I was pleased to drive my Maxima home the first time with white backlighting. Also love the entry/exit lighting on the doors for the ground but miss the under-dash interior illumination. It's so funny how many tradeoffs there are. Just one: I LOVE the Maxima's auto down AND auto up driver AND front passenger windows but REALLY MISS the Intrigue's automatic door locking feature when you put the car into gear. (I had mine programmed to lock all doors when into gear and just unlock driver's door into park. Then, if I had passengers, it was so intuitive to unlock the doors because the door lock button was right by the door handle. The Maxima's lock/unlock is down by the power windows and is counterintuitive (forward for lock and back for unlock).
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
As someone said, though, look for the car magazines to praise it. Did anyone see this months Car and Driver? Surprise, surprise: the new Accord won top spot in their sedan comparo despite it's awful styling. I have about given up on C&D as a source of credible reviews after seeing so much of this "if it's new and from Japan it has to be great" attitude.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Not to happy about the trucklike front end but everything else is pretty incredible.
That all said I would not buy one. Looks and prices are not appealing to me.
It's not C&D's fault Oldsmobile couldn't figure out how to SELL the cars.
TSchramm, funny you mention the Jaguar comparison as I've used that analogy before. Several of my co-workers have asked how I could put up with such a car and even want to drive it another day. While I am getting to the point of not trusting the car(have a car break down at the mall two days before Christmas and you'll know), I do still enjoy driving her. And she looks oh so good glistening in the sun after a nice bath. Nonetheless, I think I'm done with Intrigues. Unless maybe I got get a final 500 Aurora at a killer price(and I do mean a very good price).
Speaking of the final 500 Aurora, I just got the Olds info packet that includes the DVD. All I can say is why did Olds not run ads like this and mail out a DVD like that with brochures the past 5 years?? Whoever did the fliming of the cars did a great job. It almost made me want to go buy one:) I would have loved to have seen the Intrigue in that. The info also included a small sheet on the final 500 Aurora. I like the different style wheels and the Ruby red paint it will have. And it would be neat to own one of the truly last Olds(and probably the best) models built.
C&D comparo, typical of C&D these days. I did like seeing the Mazda 6 right up there at second place as it truly is a great sedan. Had they tested the V6 6, it would have beaten the Honda hands down. Speaking of comparos, anyone see MT's three way with the 6, Altima, and Jetta? Other than the performance, the Altima didn't really seem all that impressive. Both MT and C&D seemed to have problems with the quality of the interior. For a moment I thought I was reading an Edmund's review of the Intrigue. I'm still not a Mazda convert, but I do belive that they have done something right with the new 6. Since my tastes lean a bit more upscale anyway, I'll probably be looking at the Cadillac CTS or Saab 9-3, but for someone wanting to replace their Intrigue and stay in the mid 20s price range, the 6 is definitely a car to check out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2400009504&category=12476
And the other, a green over beige cloth '00 GL with 137,572 miles. For all those miles, it looks like it only has a few thousand. Wonder how it drives?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1876873081&category=12476#mainImage
I was impressed by the Accord actually. Other than the odd front and rear looks, this is a very well put together car. Suspension is more taught than previous versions, it handled as well as my Intrigue and had loads of power. A well put together piece. Good headroom in the rear.
Camry was super bland. Well put together and quiet but just bland.
Altima 3.5se, just as I had remembered, had a cheap interior, and was rough around the edges compared to the other imports. Best power though.
Impala LS.. Well after seeing exposed screw heads and cheap switchgear (and the worst leather he could remember seeing) my friend didn't want to drive it but he did. Did not like the motor, felt it was too rough and loud under acceleration. Very cold weather probably didn't help. Felt like it was engineered in a different era than the Accord. How do they expect to get MSRP with this thing. Why have such a high MSRP. Oh well. Went to Pontiac Buick dealer after, sat in interior of Regal and GTP, said no way and left.
3.2TL. Liked it, but not enough over the Accord to justify the $5500 price difference. Was a better deal than the loaded Camry though for the small $1,500 price difference. Headroom was pretty marginal.
None of them had very good audio.
Felt good to be back in my Intrigue, still happy with it after 3 years. Wish the Mazda 6 was in Canada, hurry up already.
Some people on this board have a knee-jerk reaction to C&D and other mags rating the Accord as the #1 sedan in thier multi-car comparisons.
Of course, none of these people have never actually DRIVEN the Accord, but because it is Japanese, and many here are Japanese-phobic, They suspect that the car mags are part of some "vast right-wing conspiracy" to discredit American cars. As you stated , they, too, would probably be surprised at how good a car the Accord really is, especially the EX V-6. Funky looking, especially from behind, but I have found it to be FAR more refined than the Intrigue. And obviously better-built.
What is surprising is how far the Camry has fallen from grace. The past few articles on it have buried it in the pack. It's no longer the stand-out it used to be.
I've driven the Altima, and agree with your opinion , as with the Impala. Nothing reeks of the lowest-end GM product that Chevrolet is than the Impala. I've driven several as rental cars, and , while they are not ugly, they can hardly be endured on the inside.
Looking forawrd to seeing the Malibu at the Detroit auto show next week. Won't be able to drive one, of course, but being built on the same platform as the Saab 9-3 is intriguing...no pun intended.
The Acura TL is to be completey redone for 2004, so I'll wait and see. Supposed to have 260HP next year. That could make it worth a few more grand than the Accord EX V-6.
The Intrigues I have driven have left for the most part positive impressions on me. They are the better of GM's mid size offerings. Too bad they are killing it.
I wouldn't buy an Accord, but I would consider one with a 200 dollar a month lease I see advertised. I don't dispute its a fine car. Maybe I must drive the new coupe with v6 and 6 speed. Accords just lack.....something.
Too bad they never made an Intrigue performance model, maybe that would have saved the car.
Currently if I were to buy, its either a Mazda6, Saab 9/3, or Nissan Maxima or Altima. Those who buy the Intrigue will get a good car, not class leading, but good nonetheless.
Impala, I don't see what is so bad about the Impala's interior. It doesn't justify the MSRP price, but then again Chevy's are traditionally sold at below MSRP. They pretty much mark them up to mark them down as thats what the average customer expects. Anyway, I had an Impala as a rental one time and while it was not as user friendly as the Intrigue, it was decent. I loved the instrument cluster lighting at night. It is a true white with red needles, very much like the electroluminescent clusters you find on a Lexus or Cadillac. For a family sedan, its not a bad pick as it has loads of interior space. I still prefer the Intrigue as my personal car though. It is looking like alot of what was good in the Intrigue is being fused into the new GP. One thing, is the GP going to be built at a different factory than where it is now? If so, that is a good thing. The Intrigue and the current GP are built at the same plant and both seem to suffer build quality issues that the other W-body sedans do not. I had a Century as a rental when the Intrigue was in the shop a little while back and while it's driving dynamics sucked, the car had a more solid feel to it. I also noticed this about the Impala when I had one as a rental.
I have to agree with you guys on the MSRP part of the Impala. I don't get it. The dfference between my '01 Impala's MSRP and a '03 Impala is $2000!
Thats a $1000 increase per year.
To put that in perspective a 60K plus Lexus LS 430 has had an increase of about $500 per year.
Anyway the transaction price on any GM car is well below it's MSRP.
I paid $21,087 for my Impala. A $4500 discount.
For 21K I could not buy any of the cars mentioned in the other posts.
The leather has worn extremely well and looks much better than the cloth, plus I have heated seats, which is not available on the cloth.
It has a bigger back seat than the intrigue and can carry my family of four (none less than 6' tall) and has a huge trunk.
None of the cars mentioned can do that.
I have enjoyed my Impala these last 19 months and it has been in the shop twice for repairs compared to the intrigue which was in about 12 times.
Much better built than the intrigue, more solid too, interior is not as nice, but it is a Chevy.
The Impala may not measure up to the cars you guys mentioned but it is a full size car and that carries a premium.
Intrigue!
I really wish there was a Gen 2 Intrigue to look at.
I have heard very good things about the new GP both from an interior and performance standpoint. Should be out in a few months so take a look.
Accord is hard to beat right now. Still don't like the looks and price much. It's also too common, I like lower volume cars so I don't blend in too much.
We you looking or just kicking tires?
Fairly loaded Accord/No NAV was $32,500 CAD and he wants to spend $35K max pre tax.
He is checking into whether the TL-S/CL-S sway bars fit the new accords like they did the old. I doubt they do.
I'd never want to be caught dead in an Accord. It lacks zest and personality. Yes, it is well-built, but I have a personal relationship with my cars. It's not like buying an appliance, which I expect will just do its thing without me having to worry about anything when I just turn the button on it, as with chest freezers & driers. No, I need to establish a dialog with my cars, from when I'm approaching them to when I'm throwing them around.
No Camry or Accord has ever given me the thrill of driving, not even the current generations. And now the new Accord is an eye sore and the Camry, resoundingly bland. If they were appliances, they'd be poor performing appliances, well-built or not.
That's what I expect from my cars. Others may meet their needs differently, which is just fine, but no, thanks. I'd rather get more of a car for less elsewhere.
Wonder what is going on with the Regal? I have heard the car is going up scale, kind of an American Lexus. Should be interesting.
Intrigue's was the best of the Wbodies.
When I first saw the Impala's interior it was quite a shocker due to the number of cutlines and
dashvents.
However I don't pay much attention now.
Impala doesn't have the console creaks and A pillar creaks that my intrigue had.
Impala is missing the rear vents. Backseat passengers complain about being a little too warm in the summer so the front passengers have to be
a little cooler.
Climate control is not even an option.
Lutz has designed a beautiful interior for the GTO and I hope that it trickles down to the other lines.
I just hope he doesn't put cheap feeling materials in the cars like he did for Chrylser.
I remember sitting in an LHS and putting my elbow on the top of the console as i got in. My elbow practically went through the lid.
http://www.cheersandgears.com/
I think you will like it. especially the seats and the quality look of the leather.
it is clear they spent extra dollars on the interior.
That issue probably hurt the Intrigue. Not that people thought it was ugly, but that it was just another GM sedan, the Cutlass redesigned, the sister to the Regal, so they never got behind the wheel. Yet, that's where and when the sale would have been made, right? After driving it.
The reverse is the bigger problem, though, Lots of people get hooked on how cool and sexy a car looks, and will tolerate lesser performance or quality aspects. I think the Fiat Spider is cool and sexy. I'd be an idiot to buy it as my daily driver, however.
Getting a thril from looking at your cool car gleaming in the dirveway is fine, I guess. But how it performs, handles, and especially how trouble-free it is means more to me.
That's why Honda keeps being number 1. It's not the coolest looking car in the parking lot, but my '03 EX V-6 takes a back seat to no Intrigue from behind the wheel. Period. I didn't buy it at a "depseration" price, but I got what I wanted. And I'll sell it for 80% of what I paid for it in two years, like I just did with my '00 EX. Technology and style are changing so fast in the auto industry, I couldn't contain myself for 4 or 5 years before wanting another new one, so resale is important to me.
I'd say the same from the pictures of the new GP, a much needed updated interior.
February 20, 2000 was my first edmund's post and my first internet post.
A lot has happened in 3 years. of course back then this thread had a wider variety of people and a LOT of complaining.
Seems the car was problematical from the start and there were a lot of people truning them back in or getting them bought back.
Most of the complaints were about the dealer's treatment of customers with buyer's raving about it's handling and engine. Still true today.
I did a quick search and think that dindak, one2one and ketch are a few of the pioneers still left. let me know if I have forgotten you.
Honda's typical introduction to the younger market has been via the Civic. Now, they are trying to go for the side of the "Generation Y" that Nissan also seems to be trying to appeal to, (and with limited success, Pontiac, with the Vibe) with it's own radically-designed cars and trucks.
I doubt Honda will ever make any money on the Element project, and that probably suits them fine. They are getting a heck of a lot of publicity designed to appeal to a younger market. They don't care if the receding hairline-types take notice.
But I'll be willing to bet that Honda will sell more Elements than Pontiac ever will of that ugly thing called the Aztec.