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b4z : I bought my Intrigue based on what I was reading back in early 2000. The problems with the initial Intrigues seem to have been ironed out by then so when our GP was totalled we decided to make the change to Oldsmobile in spite of the fact my friends considered it an old peoples brand. No regrets, I love the car and I expect another 150K kms + of driving it.
TS is right about the Element--it doesn't have to be a moneymaker for Honda. They are concerned that their demographics are getting too old and too female (think Civic...I have no respect for men who drive Civics, do you?)...Element is a way to bring people in the showroom...and then maybe sell them something else...
As for the discussion about the Accord/Camry, I'm sure that the Accord is a very solid, well-executed car. Styling is subjective, I'm not crazy for the new styling and as I've said before I HATE the bloated Camry. However, in terms of the Intrigue/Impala discussions in relation to these cars, I think that the key factor is price. What kind of Accord could I get for the $18.5k I just paid for my Intrigue? Would it have a good V6, auto climate control, traction control, PCS, spoiler, alloy wheels, a Bose 8 speaker sound system, and so on...? Not a chance. I'd get me a nice 4 cyl with a few options. BORING. The same is true even for the current Impala. Even an LS with the Appearance Package is cheaper than a comparably equipped Accord and its much more substantial car (although not anywhere near the Intrigue in terms of performance). Plus, of course, there are some of us out there that want to drive something that you don't see in every lane all day long. I couldn't get my girlfriend to even look at a Focus, because, as she said "I'm sick of seeing them." She bought an Alero....
Bnrmom is wrong on the Intrigue. There was never a problem with styling. Everything to this day thinks it looks sleek, aggressive, fast, expensive...When it came out, the impression was that it was NOT another GM sedan, THAT was the problem. Nobody knew what the hell it was and where to buy it! The last thing people thought when they looked at that '98 Intrigue was "Oldsmobile" and there was no badging there to tell them!
By the way, just as an aside...isn't it interesting that nobody has every mentioned the Ford Taurus on this board? (at least not in a long, long time...) How irrelevant is that car these days! Ford REALLY screwed up by trying to replace 3 cars with two (Escort, Contour, Taurus with Focus, Taurus). They should have slotted something in between them. Apparently, that's what they are doing with the upcoming '04/'05's.
The supply of new 2002 Intrigues is drying up. There are none to be found locally and a dealer in a nearby province who had 8 of them a couple of months ago now is down to one. They are a heckuva deal if you want one.
Seems to me the best value in a GM car these days is the Grand Prix. One with the 3800 (the GT) stickers for less than an Impala LS. I am not crazy about either one but I would go with the GP if pressed. The Saturn L300 wagon interested me as well but the price is way up there and I wouldn't want a cheaper 4-cylinder model. I like the Alero but it's a bit small for what I want and I don't care for the Grand Am either. Malibu screams rental car so it's out too.
I wish the new Colorado pickup was available. Maybe by the time I'm ready it will be. I don't like the S-10/Sonoma and a fullsize pickup would be nice but is really too big and expensive for me. The Envoy also appeals to me but is out of my price range. I've already ruled out the Rendezvous and Aztek on looks.
I haven't been a big SUV fan but the Mazda Tribute looks good to me as does the Toyota Highlander and Mitsu Outlander. Pricing on them is a bit iffy. I really like the look of the Nissan Murano but it is out of my price range. Don't know about pricing on the Mazda 6 but I like what I've seen of it. The Accord sedan and Camry are both out on looks but the Accord coupe might be a contender; again though, it's a bit on the pricey side. I thought the Jetta wagon might be the one but I was disappointed with pricing on it too; they can get very expensive. If Chrysler offers some incentives on the Dakota I might want to look at one of them; don't know much about them though.
It's a really tough call. I would like to go with GM to use up my GM card money but it isn't easy. Right now I couldn't predict what I would end up with. I only wish there was a new Intrigue to choose from.
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- http://webevents.broadcast.com/gm/concept2003
- http://webevents.broadcast.com/gm/cadillac2003
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- http://webevents.broadcast.com/gm/chevrolet2003
mfletouva : I agree with you on the Camry, one of the ugliest cars on the road now. Old Camry was really dull, the new is hideous.
Have a 2002 with PCS and the above 16" tires.
The kid who did the work said the tires should be inflated to 44 PSI. That sounded like a lot, but he seemed positive and said that's what was stamped on the tire.
Drove out and was appalled at the harsh ride. Pulled over and checked the factory sticker in the trunk and it said to use 31 PSI all around.
Went back and ran down the store manager and told him what happened. He agreed that the pressure should be well above 31 PSI, although the 44 PSI is stamped on the tire as the max pressure for the tires.
His comment was that 31 PSI is too low for the 16" Eagles and we agreed on using 38 PSI all around.
Anybody have any thoughts or observations about this exchange?
Having followed Fords carelessness with regard to inflating their Firestones, am not too surprised if a major mfr is giving out bad data. However, the difference between 31 and 40+ PSI is significant.
Seems that an undesireable edge wear pattern would emerge if the 31 PSI was as low as the tire folks suggested. Conversely, at 38+ will I see abnormal center wear?
What do you guys inflate your tires to?
As for the maximum pressure on the tire sidewall, it's just that: the maximum pressure that the tire can withstand before exploding. By inflating the tires to the maximum pressure, any pot hole could cause the tire to blow up!
Finally, it's important to remember that the tires should be inflated when cold (after up to 1ml. at speeds below 25MPH or so).
As for the Japanese not being able to do anything wrong, well, the Intrigue was designed specifically as GM's japanese sedan import fighter. But, who lost the fight? Still a nice car, though.
Pressure will change about 1 psi per 10 deg F temp variation which is why you should check it every month, especially if the temp changes significantly with the seasons as it does for most of us.
It's amazing the amount of misinformation gets passed out by people who ought to know better.
The manufacture's sticker usually includes a lower pressure for ride quality.
Gm did this with my IROC and Ford did it with the Explorer and look what happened there.
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The suspension is designed to work with a certain tire compliance. A higher pressure will transfer some of the work expected to be done by the tire to the suspension, which will lead to higher shocks temperature, less effective operation and shorter life.
On the other hand, a lower pressure may lead to an Explorer-like scenario, when the tire overheats and its structure fails. As a matter of fact, that's why many cars are being equipped with low tire pressure warning systems.
The manufacturer assumes liability for the pressure it recommends, anything else is at your own risk.
Did you buy an 02 close out?
Post your comments on the redesign here: Town Hall New Look!
That's where the developers will look for feedback.
And yes the Accord is NO eye-catcher [but that can be subjective], but does a company risk going too racial and risk losing too many of their CORE customers, I think NOT. Case in point the Aztek, however the Element is a step off their normal path.
Camry; I've driven several rentals [LE], wow Toyota has taking some major steps backwards. Very disappointing, a lot of corner cutting going on.
Mazda; I'm going to have to check out the new 6.
Right now I'm very intrigued with Nissan's new Murano. Fits my next needs real nicely, sporty, plenty of passenger room and cargo room, plus the price is not over the top like some of the luxury cross-overs. But I'm not sure if I like the looks or not, but the interior is very nice, totally opposite of the Altima. Plans to test drive one soon. However I will wait a couple of years, just in case of glitches, and see what others come out with.
pat : Hey I know it's not you. It's pretty bad though. On a 15 inch is not readable in some spots. I have posted my displeasure.
I'll begin with Olds, as that's what this board is (supposed) to be about. Found their display way in the back, kind of like out of sight , out of mind. Not much traffic, and most people coming by did more so to pay their repsect rather than check out the cars. They had boxes full of the DVD and a commemorative calendar. Nice photos of the classic Olds' -the 88, Cutlass, Toronado, 442, and there, in November, the Intiruge. Nice collectors item. One word descibes their display -sad.
Next was Chevy. Malibu was OK, nothing to get excited about. Where Chevy is making some real progress on the truck-side. Colorado, Equinox - nice. The Equinox was nice looking. It is EPA clssified as a "compact" and is roughly the same size as the Ford Escape and Honda CR-X. Nice looking, but, of course, smaller than the Trailblazer and more snug inside.
Buick was next - nothing much except the Ranier. Very nice - it's obviously quite similar to the current Bravada. No hint of the '04 Regal.
Pontiac had a couple of the '04 GP's. I've liked the photos, but it is even more impressive in person. Neat feature- front passenegr seat folds forward - flat, so if you are alone on the road you can put stuff right next to you in little cubby's- food, drink, phone, and don't have to worry about spilling food and drink on the seat. Driving position is great -reminds me of the current Aurora. Probably the only mid-size GM sedan I'd consider now.
Caddy had their all their new models. Didn't sit in any, but the Sixteen is sure sweet looking. Never will be built, probably.
Saab had several 9.3's Great driving position, too. Back seat is striclty for kids, though. It, too, is classifed as a "compaact" which I found interesting. But it is smaller than the Intrigue and you really notice it in the back. My 14 year old, who has no problem sitting behind me in the Intrigue, would not be able to in the 9.3. I'm 5'10" and after adjusting the drivers seat, and sat in the back seat behind it, and my legs were pressed up against the driver seat. Small kids only back there.
I breezed through Ford/Lincoln/Mercury. Stopped at Chrylser only long enough to look at the Pacifica. Very nice package and looks well put together with quality materials.
Nissan was next . Lots of new models there. The Murano is interesting, but too small for me. The new Maxima was there, too. Still can't get past the front end.
The biggest crowds were probably at Nissan, Honda and Chevy, in that order. Could hardly get near the Element. They had 4 of them there, with crowds all around them, young and old, attracting more people than any other single model I saw in the whole show. If the intent was to attract attention and bring people into the showrooms, then, Honda has hit another home run.
I'll begin with Olds, as that's what this board is (supposed) to be about. Found their display way in the back, kind of like out of sight , out of mind. Not much traffic, and most people coming by did more so to pay their repsect rather than check out the cars. They had boxes full of the DVD and a commemorative calendar. Nice photos of the classic Olds' -the 88, Cutlass, Toronado, 442, and there, in November, the Intiruge. Nice collectors item. One word descibes their display -sad.
Next was Chevy. Malibu was OK, nothing to get excited about. Where Chevy is making some real progress on the truck-side. Colorado, Equinox - nice. The Equinox was nice looking. It is EPA clssified as a "compact" and is roughly the same size as the Ford Escape and Honda CR-X. Nice looking, but, of course, smaller than the Trailblazer and more snug inside.
Buick was next - nothing much except the Ranier. Very nice - it's obviously quite similar to the current Bravada. No hint of the '04 Regal.
Pontiac had a couple of the '04 GP's. I've liked the photos, but it is even more impressive in person. Neat feature- front passenegr seat folds forward - flat, so if you are alone on the road you can put stuff right next to you in little cubby's- food, drink, phone, and don't have to worry about spilling food and drink on the seat. Driving position is great -reminds me of the current Aurora. Probably the only mid-size GM sedan I'd consider now.
Caddy had their all their new models. Didn't sit in any, but the Sixteen is sure sweet looking. Never will be built, probably.
Saab had several 9.3's Great driving position, too. Back seat is striclty for kids, though. It, too, is classifed as a "compaact" which I found interesting. But it is smaller than the Intrigue and you really notice it in the back. My 14 year old, who has no problem sitting behind me in the Intrigue, would not be able to in the 9.3. I'm 5'10" and after adjusting the drivers seat, and sat in the back seat behind it, and my legs were pressed up against the driver seat. Small kids only back there.
I breezed through Ford/Lincoln/Mercury. Stopped at Chrylser only long enough to look at the Pacifica. Very nice package and looks well put together with quality materials.
Nissan was next . Lots of new models there. The Murano is interesting, but too small for me. The new Maxima was there, too. Still can't get past the front end.
The biggest crowds were probably at Nissan, Honda and Chevy, in that order. Could hardly get near the Element. They had 4 of them there, with crowds all around them, young and old, attracting more people than any other single model I saw in the whole show. If the intent was to attract attention and bring people into the showrooms, then, Honda has hit another home run.
My Intrigue has fog lamps. However, it appears (and says in the manual) that they will only go on when the full headlights are on. Is this true? Any way around it? There are some situations where I would like to have the fog lamps on when it isn't dark enough to trigger the headlights (or I don't need to turn them manually on). Anyone know what the deal is?
As for those new cars, the one that has me interested (not from a buying standpoint, just as an enthusiast) is the Pacifica. That looks sweet--nice and tightly porpotioned, sleek, classy interior. I can't wait to see them on the road. About the Grand Prix--whats the plastic factor like? If I hate Pontiacs now, will I be impressed by the the new GP?
Styling-same
Powertrain and chassis-same.
Interior-still looks plasticky.
maybe if you drive it, but don't hold your breath.
Huh? Time for an eye exam, ol boy.
Every square inch of sheet metal is completely different, no more plastic body side-cladding, new 90-degree opening rear doors, the interior and dash are completely restyled, new Eton supercharger available, new 4-wheel independent suspension design, new 4-wheel disc braking system, new 10-toothed steering shaft system, rear wheels have been set wider apart, new touch-activated shifting system, new rear axle ratios. Much more.
Even the base 3800 engine has had the air/fuel mixture system recalibrated for improved performance.
So, just what about the '04 GP is "really not any different" from the '03? Go to the Pontiac web site and compare them side-by-side. If you can't clearly see a big difference, schedule that eye exam!
TSchramm, interesting bits about the show. I think the Malibu's big selling point is going to be it's excellent chassis and dynamics. Radical styling has never been a Chevy forte. But hey, if Honda and Toyo can sell millions of dull looking cars you can't blame Chevy for keeping the look conservative. Interesting that the Element had such a crowd, although that doesn't always mean a runaway success. The good ole Aztek got considerable press when it first made the auto show rounds.
regfootball, I don't see alot of the same styling with the new GP. It look considerably different and as for the interior materials, they looks alot better in pictures. I'll have to wait until I actually see one in person to judge. Maybe TSchramm can enlighten us on the interior quality of the new GP. As for the engines being the same, if it ain't broke why fix it? I know alot of us would have liked to see the Intrigue's 3.5 liter DOHC V6, but with the supercharged 3800 making 250+ hp now and 280 lbs-ft of torque, it's hard to argue against it. Especially when it is cheap for GM to build and has proven reliability. Once their new generation of V6 engines are in full production, I would imagine one of them will replace the 3800.
Anyway - bnrmom is quite right. Anyone who thinks the '03 and '04 GP aren't very different isn't paying attention.
Although I am a big advocate of reserving judgement on how "good" a car is until I drive it, I am much more impressed with the '04 GP than the '03. Granted, I only sat in it for maybe three minutes, but , beyond the "charcoal grey" motif that GM seems so enamored with, the '04 interior seem a marked improvment over the '03.
Yes, it still has some of the "Game Boy" fussiness of prior Pontiacs, but seems more subdued this year. The leather seats were far more comfortable than my Inrigue's, and the ergonomics of the dash and controls is very intuitive.
I agree with the comments on the 3800 V6- GM has continued to improve it to the point where Ward's rates it as one of the 10 best production engines in the world. New for the sake of new is foolish.
As for the 3800III, it's got updated emissions controls (something new related to the EGR valve and engine management computer) to meet upcoming emissions regulations.
I've been looking more closely lately at some used '98 Intrigues. I'd like to find a '98 with as many or as little options as possible for $4,500 or under (several can actually be found at that price). That leaves me looking at mostly '98s with anywhere from 80k to 150k miles. The lower the better, but who has the most experience with a high mileage (well over 100k) Intrigue? Mileage really doesn't concern me that much, with the bulletproof 3.8 under the hood and a very good reliability reputation, other than some very common steering & brake issues. Generally, I'd like to know what an Intrigue is like after 100k.
Near or well over 100k, what are some of the main things to look for mechanical-wise? I ask, because, for example, I've found a silvermist '98 GX w/98k for $3,500 obo and a black '98 GX/GL with spoiler in quite nice shape but "high mileage" for $2,500. Even if the latter has a lot of miles under it's belt, for $2,500 how can you not take a second look?
I also think you can infer a service history by the shape of the interior. If what you ride in is dirty and shabby, you probably haven't worried about the stuff you don't see (i.e., under the hood.)
Good luck.
There ar 5 of us on the Impala thread who have had the thermoplastic intake manifolds warp and leak coolant. An $800 repair if out of warranty.
http://209.242.38.34/images/full/2002/s2002010901/mz200364904.jpg
It sure does remind me of Intrigue. Look at the little black area just left of the steering wheel column. Amazing. (This is the Mazda6 btw).
Hardly saw any Intrigues on the road. Of course I hardly saw any Accords either.
;-)
jg28 - The interior of that Mazda is very similar to my Intrigue's interior, with the two-tone doors and dashboard. The colors are almost identical. I wish my door handles were chrome though...
Dallas must be the SUV capital of the world. I was in Winnipeg a couple of years ago and it's the pick-up capital of the world.