Oldsmobile Intrigue

dindak

b4z : If I could try one risk free, I would but I'm not convinced the over all effect will be a good one. I guess we will see how he does with it over a few months.

I was reading GM vehicle sales were down again last month. In the first 5 months of the year I also notice that car sales were a particular drag. Although having a 8 year old Cavalier on the market has to hurt, one can't help but wonder if killing Oldsmobile is another big factor. I know many people (including people who like GM) that won't look at Olds any more as it's pretty much dead anyway. I also think that having a strong Accord fighter like the Intrigue (even though sales weren't great) is allowing people that were in the GM fold to leave. Many Intrigue owners have already gone to other brands as GM does not offer much in the way of sporty sedans with OHC engines anymore. I think they should have used the 03 Intrigue designs and transferred them to Buick as soon as the division was killed as it's still another year before we will see a Regal replacement.

I have seen the new Grand Prix a few times and it's very nice. I hope that GM can pick up some car sales slack there. The new Malibu looks good also but there is still a premium sport sedan missing and the only hope Buick. GM better get it's butt in gear and get some good cars on to the market ASAP or Honda and Toyota will continue to eat up market share.

sda

Dindak, I agree. Other than Olds, which was I thought, effectively positioning itself as a tasteful domestic alternative to imports, GM doesn't have much that appeals to me. I do like some of the Cadillacs (CTS,DTS,Seville), but they are too expensive and depreciate rapidly. The mini-vans are outdated, and much of what Buick and Chevy has are boring as Camry/Taurus/Sonata. Pontiac seems to be coming along as they clean up their styling.

oldsman01

In the Intrigue/Alero price range, the only really good GM alternative is the new 04 Grand Prix. The de-cladded Grand Am is also a decent car, but it is starting to age. Hopefully the new 04 Malibu will improve things. One other alternative at the high end of the price spread is the Saab 9-3.

TSchramm

Short of something miraculous happening relatively quickly, I don't see Honda or Toyota losing any sleep over ANY American threat - GM, Ford or DM, - to the mid-size sedan market. As good as the Intrgue may have been, it never made a dent in Accord sales. Every time I ride in my brother's V-6 Accord EX Coupe, I come away with the impression of quality, solidness and, yes, power (240HP). It could easily smoke my Intrigue. Boring styling - well that's in the eye of the beholder. Actually, I think the Accord Coupe is very attractive. I'm sure some people think my Intrigue isn't all that distinguisable from many other GM rental fleet cars.

I think the GP has potential, but it's a sad state of affairs when a company with all the resources of GM has only one competitive contender in one of the largest car segments, the mid-size sedan, in the world.

oldsman01

I don't think the Intrigue was ever meant to really overtake the Accord in sales as the bulk of them are 4 cylinder models sold at a lower price point. However, the V6 model could have been competition. The NEW 03 Accord is the 240 hp version, the old model was no quicker than an Intrigue. I've shown many Accords some taillights:) Despite all the problems I have had with my flawed beauty, if I had the purchase decision to do all over again, an Accord it would certainly not be. Boring, bland, and WAY too many of them everywhere.

codog2

The brake pedal pulsates and the steering wheel shakes when I apply my brakes on my 98 Intrigue (132k miles) at highway speeds (60+ mph).

Is this a problem associated with the intermediate steering rack? I had always thought that maybe my rotors were warped, but I recently change my brake pads & rotors and did not notice a difference.

BTW, no work has ever been done to the car's steering mechanism before.

thanks

bdrsdad

I doubt GM ever thought the Intrigue would ever "overtake" Accord sales, but the Intrigue never even came close. I'm sure many an Accord has seen your taillights - as you were hurrying off trying to get to the dealer before the transmission fell out of that lemon you own!

There's something to be said for the tradeoff between impressing yourself with how nice your car looks sitting in the driveway vs. the hours/days of your life watsted repeatedly taking a car in time after time to be fixed. Personally, I'll take reliability in a car over frustration, disappointment and wasted time anytime.

Apparently, so will may others, which is why Honda is selling all they can make without rebates, while GM has to give its cars away and is trying to figure out how to pay its retirees pensions at the same time.

There are very simple reasons why there are WAY too many Accords everywhere (including the V6's priced about the same as the Intrigue) and so few Intrigues, and why a 2-year old Accord retains twice the resale value of a comparable Intrigue/Century/Grand Prix. Olds made a valiant effort with the Intrigue, but fell short.

Something to think about while driving your next loaner;).

focus

this weekend toronto gas dealers are offering 49.99 cents (cdn) gas/litre to promote Toronto, the cheap gas provided me with a chance to drive in 3rd gear all day long, with gained power and confidence, i managed to pass couple BMW and ran through a few yellow lights; no speeding ticket but ended up getting a ticket parking in a fire route for five minutes at 9 pm!

vcjumper

Hehe I drove really aggressively too to get rid of some gas (more room to fill up with the cheap stuff!), lots of burnt rubber, sqealing through very fast left turns, 160km/hr on the 401 at 427, pedal to the floor etc, then when it came time to fill up, I drove by some T-dot stations and the lineups were crazy.

dindak

TSchramm : Like the Accord coupe, I'm sick of the sedan already. The rear end is brutal. Like oldsman says, the Accord is mostly a 4 banger in terms of sales numbers. That said, I paid only slightly more for a V6 Intrigue over a 4 cyl Accord, Bargoon! Intrigue main competition was Maxima, V6 Accord/Camry and SHO.

The new Grand Prix and Malibu look to be a good competitors but GM needs a much better Impala, a new Cavalier / Grand AM and a slew of new Buicks to get back into the sedan game. If I was shopping today, the only sedan I could afford that GM has is the Grand Prix. I love the CTS and 9-3 but I can't afford them quite yet.

oldsman : I think a 03 Intrigue would have had at least another 10-15 ponies. Honda's HP number is good, but the torque isn't much better than Intrigue, maybe an extra 5-10 ft. lbs.

vcjumper : I forgot all about the 49 cent gas. Drove right through Toronto Sunday, nuts!

vcjumper

How much quicker GM's 6 cylinder sedans would be if their auto trannies were 5 speed autos.

rjs200240

Dindak, you might keep in mind that sales are down compared to last year, but last year may have been sort of artificially high due to all the incentives and such.

I agree that killing Olds leaves some GM buyers stranded. I can't see anyone who likes the Intrigue moving over to a Saturn L... The CTS is too much of a price difference, and it doesn't appeal to me as an Aurora replacement either (why would I want to give up the nicer, roomier interior and the extra two cylinders for no cost savings?). The Grand Prix might be intriguing as an Intrigue replacement, but I find the 3800, torquey as it is, to be a bit too downscale. I imagine 3.5 drivers might as well.

doomylein

Hello and please be patient with me
I’m looking to buy a new car, mostly for my wife, and one of the two choices is a 2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue. The other choice is a Toyota Corolla (I know there’s a big difference between these cars). The Oldsmobile is 1 year and 10 months old, has 40.000km, perfect condition and is not extremely pricey (about 19.000 $cdn including taxes). I drove the Intrigue and I liked it very much but there is a thing that still keeps me from buying it and makes me consider the Corolla. And that’s reliability and dependability for which I care most. About the Corolla most of the people say it’s the car with the least hours spent in shop and that’s why in my list but the problem with it is that I hate it. It’s so small, loud and cheap feeling and it’s missing a lot of things that the Intrigue has. So, I’m asking the Intrigue owners from here about their experiences and their opinion about the Intrigue. How reliable is it? How frequent did you have problems with it and how expensive are these problems to fix?
Thank you for your time,
Serban

oldsman01

With pro-Accordian movement. As frustrated as I have been with the problems my Intrigue has had, I've never once thought about driving an Accord while mine was in the shop. I guess they just don't appeal to me, plain and simple. I buy a car for more than point A to point B transpotation and thus the throngs of transportation appliances than most people look at just don't appeal to me.

rjs200240, other than the new GP a former Intrigue customer is left short handed in the GM fold if they wish to remain in that price range. One other alternative would be a base model Saab 9-3. Not quite a big as an Intrigue or Grand Prix, but a very impressive little car.

oldsman01

What a decision! I've got a 2001 Intrigue which I absolutely love, but it has been a lemon. Others here have been very satisfied with theirs so I can't say they are all bad. As for the Intrigue v Corolla decision, I'd probably pick the Intrigue despite it's somewhat problematic history. Does the ones your looking at have the 5 year 60,000 mile warranty? Having driven an Inrigue for two years, it would be hard to imagine going to something like a Corolla. Between those two cars, I'd say low ball them on the Olds and see if they sell.

dindak

doomylein : We have a 2000 and it's been a really good car. The Intrigue over all is about average in reliability. Main issue on a 01 could be the intermediate steering shaft. Check for any clicking feedback when you turn.

rjs200240 : Apparently they have made some significant improvements on the new Series III 3.8L in the GP. Would have to test to see.

evandro

5-speed automatic transmissions alone can't make a car faster. All 5-speed automatics whose specs I could check just have a shorter 1st gear and the remaining 4 ones have pretty much the same ratios as a 4-speed tranny. It would probably help the sprints up to 30, but would make things worse up to 50MPH or more, without making much of a difference in overtaking. The problem that an extra ratio adds is the time for an extra upshift, 0.2 to 0.5s when the wheels get practically no power.

ozznet

I would go with the Intrigue. I've only had mine for a couple months but so far I love it. I would get the extra 3 year warranty just in case. My parents have a 2002 Corolla and my mom loves it, no problems so far. It's probably more reliable but there's nothing like 215 hp compared to the 125 hp of the Corolla. I find the motor is too loud and it looks too much like an Echo to me. Its still a nice car though.

one2one

I can only speak for myself, so if someone presents a dissenting argument, I'd take it as being just as valid as mine.

I'm on my second Intrigue. My first was a '98 Intrigue with the 3.8 L OHV v-6. Purchased with 22,000 miles and kept it until 80,000 miles (after which some young punk effectively forced me into another car). The only problems I had was the intermediate steering shaft (2x) and rusted rear rotors. I also heard something in the front passenger's windows that sounded funny and the dealer replaced the window motor.

My current car is a 2001 Intrigue (w/3.5 L DOHC). Just passed the 40,000 mile mark (purchased with 11 miles). I have had my car in the dealer ONE time for the intermediate steering staff. I had a headlight flicker that hasn't come back in 10,000 miles so maybe it was a fluke. I will be taking it back again for the right passenger's window. It doesn't roll down from the driver's switch or the door switch. All things considered, I would say my cars have been very reliable.

I would present a word of caution: beware of foreign car owners who imply that foreign cars don't go into the shop for repairs. Mine were/are minor. None ever put me in the position of being stranded. Every cars has problems of some sort. My suggestion is to do as you are and find out what the potential "regular" problems are and see if you can tolerate them. Toyota, Nissan and Honda have service bays and not all of them are getting brakes.

one2one

bdrsdad's comment. I had one loaner for my Intrigue (my Camry left me stranded AND had parts fail like stale bread). The reason I went back is BECAUSE it looks so good in the driveway and it's not a boring ride like Accords. And it does look extremely sharp as I cruise the interstate. I said I purchased it with 11 miles and now have 40,000. What I didn't say is that it was purchased in July 2001. In less than 2 years I've put over 40k on it. Car can't be in the shop too much to put that kind of mileage on it.

If people say the sky is pink with purple pok-a-dots enough times, people will believe it. Look how many gullable people wouldn't buy a Chevy Prizm because it was a Chevy but had no problem paying more for a Toyota Corolla simply because it was a Toyota even tho it was the same car! (Note the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix) Sounds to me that most foreign car owners that insist on Hondas and Toyotas just mindlessly follow the herd.

That being said, GM does need to improve on their designs. The Intrigue was probably the freshest design they've come out with in years.

mfletouva

I understand that the PC no-fun crowd would have you believe that the Corolla is the 'safe' choice, but honestly there is no comparison between a Corolla and an Intrigue. There is no way the Intrigue is that much less reliable to make it worth you while to get the Corolla over it. If for no other reason than the security you get with a larger wheel base and much more passing power, you should get the Intrigue, not to mention it--looks better, is much quieter, has many more amenities and has much more room.

As for all this Accord talk, I'm so glad one2one said what he (or she I guess) did. People who only drive domestic cars and have repair problems seem to be under the impression that Accords, Camry's, Altimas, etc. are immune to these problems and that it is an American only occurance. Fat chance. Not only do imports end up in the shop at virtually the same rate as American cars, they also usually cost more to fix when they get there. Now, there have been quality problems with models on all three continents, but I know plenty of people who have had problems with their Accords (and most of them seem to be ashamed to admit it, like its their fault) and plenty of people that have had totally trouble-free domestics (and for some reason the ones that don't seem to want to shout it from the roof top!)

You guys are also right about GM, though, sadly. They just totally have boxed themselves out. I'm sorry, but I'm just not going to drive a Buick. Ever. For any reason. Same with a Saturn (I don't care that the LS cost a fortune, it still feels cheap!) So where would I go if I was in the market? I guess I'm supposed to go to the GP. But I just can't handle the in your face dials and the boy racer looks. Where's the style in that? I guess I'd probably go with the 2004 Malibu V6 or with an Envoy or Trailblazer. But its a shame there's no Alero/Intrigue updates to keep me interested.

mfletouva

Lest my friends were to see that post, I am NOT in the market! (I had to promise no more new cars after my 3 car in 6 years spree)! Btw, my 2002 Intrigue GL (pcs, sun and sound) is now at 5850. Still trouble-free. Had synthetic oil put in at the last change in a probably futile attempt to get better gas mileage. My city mileage has been atrocious--16 mpg on the last tank. Now, granted, this is really really hard driving with constant stopping and starting, but still...that's pretty bad. I know its not the car either, I've gotten up to 33 on the highway. Oh well. I'm excited because I was able to get my hands on the Ertl Intrigue dealer promo from '98 on ebay. Had to pay more than I wanted to for it, but there are so hard to find that its worth it and its a great model, right down to the dash detail. Highly recommended for Intrigue fans.

oldsman01

How ironic, when I purchsed my 01 GLS it only had 11 miles on the odo. I just turned over 30K today so your certainly ahead of me in the mileage.

oldsman01

I know this has been discussed before, but has anyone run premium in their Intrigue? I had always toyed with the idea of running a tankful of 93 octane just to see what she would do, but never did because A. I am cheap and gas has gotten expensive in the last 2 years and B. I was afraid it would improve performance and I'd start wanting to fill up with it everytime. So I've always used regular 87 octane and been satisfied. So Saturday when stopping at a gas station I spot a very attractive woman in Sebring convertible in the next row of pumps. So while I'm watching her with one eye and getting ready to gas up the car, I hit the 93 octane button rather than the 87. Didn't notice it(imagine that) until I was almost completely full and noticed the running price was way higher than what a normal fill-up in then realized what I was putting in. Anyway, to make a long story short I don't think it is worth the extra $$. I can notice a slight improvement in power, but nothing major. The only other improvement is the car idles smoother. The Intrigue has always idled smoothly, but there would be an occasional shudder and I haven't noticed this. So unless I get sidetracked again, I don't plan on using premium unleaded in this car.

oldsman01

What rules??? Sad thing is I saw some kid in a Civic with the decals above the windshield that said what you say.

dindak

oldsman : Hey, you know I got it from somewhere. ;-)

one2one : My old neighbor was the perfect example of a man totally disappointed by switching from a Taurus (which he even told me gave him very little trouble) to an Accord. About 8 months after he bought the car he started having transmission issues and they never stopped until he finally had it replaced after Honda finally agreed there was a real problem. While Honda and Toyota are still ahead of GM in terms of quality and reliability, the difference is small enough now that I don't even think about it. A lady in the office just bought a Corolla even though her Saturn gave her virtually no trouble. She figures Toyota quality will prevail and this car will be even better. While I don't doubt it's a good car, she has clearly followed the crowd as there are a few Toyota fanatics that convinced her she had to spend more to get more quality.

b4z

Hondas do have trans problems.
A transmission that is designed to handle a 140-160 hp 4 cylinder can and will have problems when asked to do 240-260 hp.
Just ask the people who own Acura TLs.

akitadog

For your wife, if she is going to do more city driving, I would get her the Corolla. She would save money on gas and would never get to highway speeds to reap the benefits of a true road car like the Intrigue.
However, if most of her driving is on the highway, if there's a kid or two, if she needs serious trunk space for shopping, groceries or hauling, if she appreciates amenities, if she appreciates excellent handling, if she wants the safety of a larger car, if she doesn't have herd mentality, get her the Intrigue.

b4z

For personal reasons I always go for the car that gets good gas mileage.
I don't think I would ever buy a full size SUV for that very reason.
But all in all the actual dollar savings for a few extra mpgs is very small.

If you are are paying a $1.75 for a gal. of gas and your car averages an extra 2 mpg you are only saving about $2.63 per tankful.
If you fill up once a week that is $136.50 a year.
Hardly worth selling a car, taking the depreciation hit and ponying up for a new car and a whole set of payments.
For me, the higher property taxes on a new car would negate that fuel savings.

redline65

My aunt bought an Accord EX V6 in '99, shortly before I bought my Intrigue. She had to have her transmission replaced as it went out on her a few years ago. She sold the car shortly afterwards because she felt it wasn't reliable enough. I think I rather have a few minor problems with my Intrigue than a major headache like that.

one2one

in the quality department. It becomes more of a subjective thing. I read in the Feb 2003 issue of Automobile mag an article where the writer started off saying that the way quality has improved, coming in second place ain't too bad.

Personally, I don't care who made the car. I'll look at any car except a Ford (not because of their cars; Lincoln makes some really nice stuff). I won't buy a Ford purely because of an issue I had with another one of their divisions unrelated to cars. I just don't want them getting my money >:-(

But I digress.

Factors for me are 1. Do I like the way it looks. (Let's face it; we all like our stuff to look nice in our eyes whether we are conservative or not), 2. Does it have what I want mechanically, technologically (including the sound system), utility (don't really like cars w/o fold down seats), alleged fun to drive factor, 3. Can I fit, 4. Cost.

If I can get 3 out of those 4, I'd look at it. Currently if I was on the market my radar would hone in on the Pacifica, 300M, Intrepid, the new Maxima (it's slowly growing on me), Mazda 6 (even tho I can't really fit and it's a Ford company), Audi A6 and the Hyundai Sonata (although it is underpowered). Note that there are foreign and domestic cars in my list. And even tho I list Chrysler more than any other, it's not because I'm loyal to them. I like the way they look, feel and fit. And not one GM car is on the list.

perna

or just admit that if you take 20 new American and 20 new Japanese cars, drive and maintain them identically, you're not going to see all the American cars turn to rubbish and the Japanese all run flawlessly. This is an idea whose time has now passed.

Proper maintenance on a car really has much more to do with how long it lasts than any prejudice of where a car is made or engineered.

So, here's my anecdote, why not. I bought my Intrigue because at the time, I wanted a Maxima but my wife's family's "made in the USA" mentality shot that idea down. I finally did say 'enough' and bought the Nissan, but the Intrigue was a fine car. As was the Alero, Escape, Cavalier, Escort, and 6000 that came before it (the Cav and Escape being my wife's cars). At 130,000 miles the 6000 threw a rod, and the Escort did leave me stranded twice, but other than that.. all of the above cars were better than my Jetta, a true lemon if there ever was one. I think everything electrical died on that car at least once (and I did lease it new). Incidentally, the Escort and 6000 were the two oldest cars in the bunch, both 80s models.

The Nissan is my first Japanese car, so we'll see how that goes. Based on my experience with my American rides, I'd expect it to run forever, because that's how good they're making *all* cars nowadays. It's time to dump the anti-US bias, it's really getting old.

dindak

Any one know of a good way to clean the black rocker panels under the doors of the Intrigue? I did my 3 hour spring clean on Sunday but even with a pressure washer could not get that thing all black again.

w5kap

I think the true issue here is not reliability any more. Both foreign and domestic cars are much better constructed today than they were 20 years ago. I wonder, then, why the Japanese cars hold their values for so much longer and the US made cars depreciation is so steep the car loses 40% driving it off the lot! The perception of reliability would only last so long if the facts didn't bear up. Curious. I have a 99 Intrigue and cannot wait to get something that isn't so noisy and doesn't have the myriad of little problems we have had with the Olds. lately it has taken to simply stopping when at a light. The tach goes to zero and I need to restart. Wonder if it's the Crankshaft sensor??

one2one

When was the last time you replaced your fuel filter? If you're at 40,000+ miles, you might want to look into that first. Every car made by everyone should have that replaced regularly.

w5kap

Many thanks for the idea. I confess to being totally useless in diagnostics. I can usually fix things when some one tells me what is broken. I had the Crankshaft sensor flashed two weeks ago after the Check engine light came on. I had a choice of flashing it or changing it out and figured I would at least try the flash first. Will check the owners manual and try changing the fuel filter.

Again, thanks for the idea.

oldsman01

You had a Pointiac 6000 that was good? My father had one years ago(85) and it was a total piece of crap. Took him 10 years or so before he bought another GM car after that one. Part of GM's problem is they are still trying to overcome some of the crap like that which they sold for so many years.

dekester

Does anyone have the directions for replacing the bulbs in the rear spoiler? Manual does not cover it! I have a 98 model.

I know it's probably as easy as removing the screws, then the lens, but I want to make sure there's nothing else there. Also, what bulbs does it use? Again, nothing covered in the manual.

Thanks,

Deke

perna

Actually, the '83 Pontiac 6000 was my first car, so at the time ANYTHING would have been a Cadillac to me!

Even though it wasn't exactly what I would call a luxury ride, it never left me stranded. Some things failed on that car because of neglect (example, I knew the car had power steering, but didn't realize it had fluid to check...oops), but it was reliable and generally nicer than the '89 Escort that replaced it. Until the engine threw a rod going down the freeway, that is. Luckily it was only about a mile's walk to a rest area for a phone, and thankfully I was with a couple friends - we ended up waiting nearly 6 hours for a ride. Yep, that was all she wrote for that Pontiac.

The next GM I would own was a '00 Olds Alero, which turned out to be the most reliable car I'd ever owned. Go figure.

bravedave

One problem the domestics seem to have is poor resale value. This, IMHO, is related to several factors. First of all, GM and Ford sell a good many of their cars as fleet sales. Thus, the supply of any given car is never in short supply in the used market-- why buy a new car when you can get the same vehicle as a used program car for less? Also, the recent post 9-11 incentive programs with special financing offers has created a glut in the used car market.

In the case of Oldmobile, the fact that this division is being phased out is also affecting their resale. My 1998 Intrigue with now about 106K miles is now worth just about diddly-squat--- but I still love my car.... and will drive it until it drops. Given its past problems, I think I can get 200k miles out of her easily...

ozznet

dindak maybe you can use that foaming tire stuff or Wet and Black.
I have wondered that myself but I'm scared to try it out on my car.

b4z

Mother's "Back to Black".

ozznet

I was thinking of that to, wasn't sure that would work though.
Thanks.

dindak

What is that stuff, a cleaner or is it a paint type product?

ozznet

Its more of a restorer. Kind of like the stuff you use for your tires.
 "puts a great gloss on any black trim (moldings, bumpers, plastic or rubber mirrors etc.)"

redline65

Any one know of a good way to clean the black rocker panels under the doors of the Intrigue?

I use Meguiar's vinyl cleaner each time I wash. Mine stays nice and clean. For the tires I use Turtle Wax Tire Wax.

One problem the domestics seem to have is poor resale value.
I think another reason is that when a parent is shopping for a used car for their kid they will mostly want a used Civic or Corolla, not an Escort or a Cavalier. The demand for used Japanese cars is much higher, keeping the prices up.

sunsession

If you grasp the top of your shifter handle (where the button is) and apply a slight twisting motion back and forth, does it move? I keep asking my dealer to tighten it; he says it's normal and is that way in all the Intrigues. Thanks.

jg28

it's not normal to have play in the shifter knob. Get it replaced if it's under warranty. Yep, they have to completely replace it. Dumb huh.

dindak

Thanks for the advice. I'll head over to Cdn Tire at lunch and see what they got.

As for resale, around here Intrigue is no worse than any other domestic midsize. I'm not too concerned anyway as we plan to keep the Intrigue for another 5 years at least.

evandro

My brother worked at a petrochemical plant and he would bring to me a few ounces of industrial liquid silicone. Just a drop in a sponge and I could turn the whole bumper shiny black again. Too bad this thing isn't available at retail stores, probably because some jackasses would use it for breast augmentation... :-)