Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
Has anyone seen the Edmund's article for the new 2002 Maxima? That sure looks appealing. Why can't our 3.5s get 260 hp?
I think you guys are right about the gearing. I surely don't like "where" my Intrigue shifts. It seems like it waits too long.
I'm sad to report that I've had the Intrigue for one year (I bought it used at 9500miles) and the squeaks, rattles, etc have gotten progressively worse. In particular, I think the windshield is rattling. I can't figure out where the noise is coming from. You guys probably won't believe this but even when the car is sitting, it creaks. I've been in the garage a few times and have heard the car creak. It's so bizarre.
Has anyone looked at the front end underneath? Mine is full of styrofoam. I wonder if that was a modification after the complaints from the 98 and 99 models? I'm going to inquire of the dealer to see if I can install the wheel liners but I think once mine is paid off I think I'm going to jump toward the Maxima.
Don't get me wrong, I have loved my Intrigue but haven't been as satisfied as I would've liked to have been. It's so weird, its almost like the problems have made me love the car even more.
But as she gets older I think she's just creaking more, and the suspension isn't as tight and I swear the other day when I went over a bump, the front end bounced a couple times. Felt like I was in a Buick there for a minute. (I've had the suspension checked twice by the dealer and, of course, they find nothing wrong). Ever since I took her on a long trip (from Salt Lake City to Phoenix) she's had a lot of body roll during steering maneuvers.
I'm just kinda disappointed in the Intrigue right now. Maybe if I wouldda bought new it wouldda been better. I really believe that some of these seem better than others. My bro in law has a 2001 with the wheel liners... and his doors seem heavier too. I wonder if they've insulated them. Much quieter than mine. Thanks for letting me ramble. I'll let you all know if and how the cabin air filter works. We live in quite a dusty area so I'm hoping it will help lots.
This is one thing about the intrigue that really put me over the edge. My car's Apillars, especially the right one creaked every time i made a turn, and every time i went over a bump.
I resorted to turning the stereo up all the time. I missed a lot of calls on my cell phone though.
The stereo did drown out the road noise pretty well too.
I would have to say that the creaks and the suspension noises were what made me not buy another intrigue in JUne.
My impala has no creaks and no suspension noises, but some of the people on this forum don't want me talking a bout anything other than intrigues.
jgriff : WAY off topic BUT.. The Corvette does come to mind for several awards. Saturn REGULARLY places in the top three for satisfaction and service. They don't make any trucks. Yes GM does put too much money in trucks. That will change in the coming years. By the way.. MDX is not a truck or an SUV. Hard to compare.
jg28 : Buying used is always a crap shoot. Have you ever had the car check for being in an accident. A co-worker was having a lot of creaking/ brake problems with a used Taurus. Turns out it was in a wreck. She threatened the dealer where she bought it and got a FULL refund.
sbak : Take it in. Sounds like the transmission needs adjustment.
I just think some must be made better than others. The first one I test drove seemed very much more solid than the second one I test drove. I wonder if the first one had PCS although I don't think it could've because I test drove it in January 2000. Maybe it did.
When I first got mine, she was solid too. No creaks whatsoever, superb handling (I took her up the canyon to see if I'd find myself "leaning on the Intrigue as if it were a BMW" like Motortrend said). I was. She was solid and tight and one of the best handling sedans I've been in (even comparable to the GXE and GLE Maximas).
I think some must be made better than others but even the better ones get creaky over time. I used to hate when Edmunds said "poorly constructed and creaky" but I find myself agreeing with them more and more. There's a VISIBLY noticeable gap difference on both sides of the hood. It's kinda embarassing really. I don't understand why GM cannot match the legendary quality of a Honda; after all, Accords are mostly made in the US now and still have impeccable quality.
If I were going to keep the car for more than say another 6-12 months, I would ask my brother if he could attach the dash more securely (although I doubt that's possible). I'd also get the wheel liners (I'm already getting the cabin air filter). I'd also like to see if the liners could be applied post-factory. I STILL have that whistling coming from the passenger's side door but again the dealer says "we can't duplicate the problem." I haven't taken her in for any warranty repairs for quite some time, knock on wood. I'm praying we'll have a super cold winter so we can test out her new and improved alternator (which by the way is a real bit** to swap out. They have to drain the entire cooling system to do it!).
I think it was wise to let the name fall away mostly and let the cars excel. But I don't think they went far enough. The entire division needed a new name. Some have suggested Aurora. I think we could've kept a little tradition and mixed it up with OLS. Old timers could call it "olz" But in the commercials they'd simply say the letters. And then keep the A script that's on the Aurora. Intrigue should've been kept Antares so you'd have the Aurora, Antares and Alero (anyone think of any names for the Bravada and Silhouette that start with A?) I think that would've worked. I dunno though. I think it would've worked regardless if build quality would've been up there. A car gets a reputation regardless of advertising.
As for the OLDsmobile stigma, slick marketing could have changed that. VW turned around a company with a horrible reputation for quality with new cars and slick ads. Oldsmobile started to with the Intrigue/ Alero ads, but never continued them long enough for anyone to remember. GM gave up on Olds far too quickly. Changing perception takes time and GM didn't give it.
But I digress.
I feel as you do about the naming, although marketing folks probably wouldn't keep all the "A" names for fear of models getting confused. But I like "Antares" more than all the names they came/have come up with.
I still think they (because of folks similar to those mentioned above) should have changed the division to "Aurora". The "Aurora Antares"--would have taken some getting used to but it does have an exotic sound to it.
htwired: I think the current F-body (Firebird/Camaro) competes quite well with the best performance cars of the 60's and 70's. A 2002 Camaro Z-28 base sticker is about $21,000 (which I think, taking inflation into account, would compare with $4,000 for a 71 Z-28 in 1971) and has straight-line performance equal to the best of the old days. Plus has MUCH better brakes, handling, drivability and gas mileage (a minor point in a performance car, I know). My 01 Formula has approximately 350 gross hp, should quarter (with a good driver) in the mid-13's and gets 20 mpg in everyday driving. Of course, that said, GM is killing it off after the 2002 model year!
A '70 LT1 Z28 had 360 gross hp and is not even in the same league acceleration wise as an LS1 powered car.
This is truly a golden age for automobiles.
In 2030 we will be driving around in our hydrogen/electric tuna fish cans and talking about how good things were in the '90's and '00s.
Can you elaborate on the Intrigue's body creaks?
Was it the plastic trim or the actual steel structure?
Also did you watch the Indy League 300 race yesterday in Kansas City?? It was sponsored by Oldsmobile and if you noticed, the pace car was a custom painted Olds Intrigue. However, the camera kept avoiding taking a clear good shot at the car..I wonder why...
The only Olds commercial during the race was about the Bravada and the 5/60 warranty... "Oldsmobile, backed by GM!!!!"
My second rack gear is now shot after 1200 kms; 750 miles. That is how long the original took to die but required another 6000kms for the dealer to replace.
Another dismal night drive home last night with the blinking headlights. Now I think I know what a migraine sufferer goes though. It was only a half hour but felt like 3 hours in a blinding snow storm. Need a third altenator, maybe they should bundle them with a rack.
Tranny still surges occasionally in reverse. Its getting very frustrating driving around a parking lot loking for a space that i can drive through so I don't have to back up because i can't trust reverse not to get me into an accident or not to hit someone that might be walking by or scaring the bejebbers out of them. I looked at my intrigue brochure and it states a 4 speed automatic transmision, but no mention of a reverse. Maybe it is optional on this vehicule
Sounds like a quote from a couple of years back when Oldsmobile was in trouble. But no, wait! They're talking about Buick! You know, the division that everyone said should hang around because sales were higher than Oldsmobile (sales are 15% lower than this time last year and falling) despite not having anything in the pipe to compete with the competition.
This article in Autonews.com just goes to show that Oldsmobile was already poised to be successful if certain debateable decisions had been made. It's an article on the Bengal but they're changing their lineup just like Olds did. As a result, they're going to run into the same problems that Oldsmobile did. Even as we here predicted, Buick is now officially in the same boat as Olds was when the Intrigue was released. So the idea that "OLD" in the name "Oldsmobile" was holding the division back isn't valid. It's the "image" that's the problem. The word "old" isn't in Buick but the image comes through crystal clear.
teo : The IRL is a looser series. Less than half full venues is the norm there. Oldsmobile would have been wise never to bother putting money in it. Infiniti is the only other engine maker, but the Oldsmobile is the dominant engine. It's too bad it didn't fly as it could have been great promotion for the street cars. They will be re-badged as Chevys next season.
You need to pump the gas pedal quicker, kinda like using a door knocker.
Re: Tranny won't stay in "1". Mine doesn't sit firmly in "1" either, and pops into "2" with a little nudge. But I've ignored this, since my transmission works fine and I don't use my car for off-road rock hopping!
I guess you are much worse than me
How's the Impala?
I have never understood the logic behind buying those things. I guess if you have a large family (Over 5 people) I am sure a minivan makes sense, but otherwise I would avoid them as much as I could. Ditto for SUVs.
My sister is currently looking for a replacement for her outgrown '99 Accord LX. Saturday we both test drove the Buick Rendezvous (Nice truck but feels underpowered and very expensive) and the Buick LeSabre. She really loved the way the LeSabre drove with the signature wallowy ride and the overboosted steering. She was thrilled! I think all those years of driving stiff riding, underpowered Hondas with park bench seats really got up to her. The car comes with the 205HP version of the 3800 V6 and let me tell you...it is one fast AARP mobile!. The H-platform best serves the LeSabre. The car is basically a sofa on wheels but it is built like a tank (5 star rating) super comfortable, good build quality, excellent reliability, fantastic room and reasonable prices/equipment ratio.
My sister is 36 years old and her husband is 43...and my nephew who is 1 year old. My sister really liked it and she doesn't mind the AARP image this car has...even the stereo blows away anything that Honda currently puts on the Accord!
The car has great utility for a family of 4 even 6!. The 18 cubic feet trunk is huge and the opening makes it very easy to load unload bulky objects.
I personally did not like the marshmellow suspension settings and the overboosted steering but otherwise it is a nice workhorse from which you can squeeze lots of pleasurable miles. One interesting technical tid bit is that the LeSabre has the battery under the seat, not on the engine bay...however should you need to jump the car, the battery cable terminals have extensions in the engine bay for a quick connection...interesting!
I know my favorite AARP friend has had some Buick experiences of his own, so I would appreciate him to relay some of them.
The dealer is a small operation in Homestead, FL (Auto City Buick, Pontiac, GMC) and the initial sales treatment and zero pressure approach really impressed us...
The car we looked at was a new 2001 Buick LeSabre custom basic model with a MSRP of $24K. They have a $2K rebate and with some negotiating it is possible to bring down the price to $22.5K...not bad for a nice set of AARP vault like American Iron wheels.
By the way there are no Buick outlets left in the immediate Miami area. There is one located at the border of Dade/broward county and the other one is in Homestead....
I think Buick if not careful will go down the Oldsmobile way, altough they seem to have better quality than the Olds breathen...
My Impala LS is doing great, very close to the 2K mile mark and so far flawless...not a rattle, squeak, noise, groan, nada...just perfect and everything is working fantastic!
I also recommend to look at the base Impala sedan one of the best full size sedan values in the market..nicely equipped you can get one for around $18K out the door...
The one we drove stickered at $27K! and no V6...it had the 1.8L 4 cyl Turbocharged engine rated at 170HP. The Germans are still the masters at handling and road feel. Nice driving experience you quickly forget you are behind the wheel of a station wagon.
Dislikes: The price for once, the short limited warranty and the balky automatic transmission. This car is best enjoyed with a 5-speed in both Turbo and V6 variants.
I would pick this car over any SUV or minivan anyday.
Too bad GM doesn't sell a good midsized wagon aside from the Saturn L series. If they only would make an Impala wagon...
Buick is probably the most overrated tin can around with the floppy suspension and the uninteresting lineup..it's the worst of GM and Pontiac eats their lunch but the AARP's aren't interested. The Bonneville is a little Buck Rogers in appearance; better suspension setup and a little more performance oriented..
The 3.8 has a very small oil capacity and a cast iron block which spells trouble for the hi-speed guys. The 3.8SC has also the same small capacity so the heat build-up in the block area is great.. The oil under hard driving conditions starts to burn/blacken quickly. Changes are needed at 2k miles..
I do not see why.
The 3.5l Aurora probably deserve this: it is substantially underpowered and does not cornering well. Cannot hold on with my 4-year old Malibu.
However, Intrigue is a very different car. It was designed to be as close the ultimate long-range vehicle, as possible for less than $30k. The execution if the design was not perfect, but not bad at all. Excellent on highways and two-lane rural roads, and not bad at all at city.
It is a pity...
Finally...the engine breaks in.
And Yes...it has PCS...
More in the future.....
This doesn't sound surprising though. GM is under pressure to close underperforming models, and the Olds line has no defenders with "pull" inside GM.
I doubt I'll be shopping for a car again before 2007 at the earliest. But whether GM is making anything then that interests me is an open question. I'm not optimistic, and I don't even use my GM card anymore.
GM almost lost me even this last time. I was somewhat considering the Gran Prix, but the GP was a bit too pricey for me. I tried the Alero, but a one-day rental convinced me the interior was too small. The Intrigue was a good compromise, and I, as a 33 year old former import owner, was a "conquest" sale like GM has been trying to make.
Personally, I've never believed the saw about not enough sales. Other manuafacturers are willing to produce car lines in the 50,000 unit range. GM wasn't viewing each sale in that perspective and they're still in the mindset of 300,000 units or better.
Chrysler lost 2% market share when Plymouth was killed. Gm will probably lose 2% when olds dies.
I don't think Rendezvous is expensive if you stick with a 2WD. They list for C$31K, about the same as my Intrigue GL was. If I can get one for around $28-29K next year, that would be great. Depends on money. I can get a smaller Transport or a MPV for around C$23-24K. I think the Tribute is about the same. It will be next year, who knows what will be around then.
VW wagons I will stay away from. Pricey and small is all I see. Nice fit and finish. Reliability is no better than GM though. Saturn wagon is nice, but my wife will not drive a wagon.
redline65 : Yup! 3-series is a great commuter car, but for a family trip it won't work. 5-series is way out of range. Fantastic cars if you have the DMs. ;-)
Fram part #: CA6479
K&N #: 33-2057, 33-2086
Why it came up with two hits I don't know. I will be emailing them to see what the difference is between the two. At first I thought that one was for the Aurora but it isn't. One would think that the engines are the same so the filters would be also. Nope. Did a search for the Aurora and, believe it or not, the filter for the V-8 and V-6 is exactly the same.
Will let you know what I find out.
Got a price in writing for the new Intrigue. Once everything is finalized I'll give the details. I will say that when I got into it the odometer had only 8 miles. After test driving the non-PCS Intrigue I found that it is actually very competent down low. Perhaps I'm convincing myself to belive that but I put forth a concerted effort to try to find fault.
I'm thinking about sinking another grand into my car when the tires are worn out, to improve handling to the maximum. Pilots, STBs, upgraded brakes.
For you lurkers out there, it needs repeating that the Intrigue really is built for speed. I'd say it's not until you get to crusing around 80 MPH, that the acceleration "punch" from flooring the beast will feel like "most normal cars". (And even then, you're up to 95MPH pretty soon.)
I've never gotten a speeding ticket in my life. But I just *know* I'll get my first in this car! When I pass another Intrigue that's going (the legal) 65MPH, I think to myself: "How can you STAND it?"
Buick is sitting on a dead line for the AARP magazine is pushing Impalas..the Park ave. is a joke..
The only car in the GM lineup which doesn't use the mostly common or interchageable parts is the Intrigue; so its being sliced off..The 3.5 somewhere down the line either due to its size or emissions was a loser..Didn't share anything with the other engines and Cadillac eats through enough Corporate money with Northstar..
Last ticket was in Canada for $300 cdn--speeding--was stopped in farmland Michigan last fall--80 in 55 zone--told to slow down--no points on record..10 yrs ago was ticketed for 59 in a 55 zone.. A joke..
White hair and a civil attitude pays off..
The impala owners will be happy to see the Intrigue die for it eliminates a vastly superior car.
As for the Impala, my wife doesn't like it so we will never have one. Maxima or next generation Grand Prix will likely be what it comes down to next. Of course the whole car world will likely look pretty different in 5 years.
http://www.motorcities.com/contents/01AE8501300446.html
It is a little better design than most of GMs current ugly Blade Runner concept cars, but I really wonder how Buick thinks it can sell more than a handful of these. The people who would buy cars of this type are unlikely to even have Buick on their radar screen. Another case of GM's jumbled marketing and product proliferation setting them up for a fall.
Looks like another Reatta to me.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Mecanically superior, yes, but quality wise sorry but the answer is no. Again if the Intrigue was such a great sedan why the thing did not survive in one way or another? This car could have been a good replacement for the Century/Regal duo if GM brass had decided to keep it in the Buick line.
Credit is given where credit is due....the Short star powerplant, the smooth automatic, the PCS, the better handling and some of the styling cues made it a quite attractive car. But the problem my fellow Intrigue fantatics is that the car failed due to questionable quality and reliability...break problems, suspension noises and body creaks in addition to poor safety scores never helped jump start the reputation of the Intrigue in the market place. Word of mouth would have saved the Intrigue and therefore the Oldsmobile division not solely marketing campaigns.
Also another plus in the Intrigue experience would have been better warranty coverage, perhaps in the 4/48 or 4/50 range. The 3/36 coverage is what you get in your Cavalier or Buick Park Avenue so if Oldsmobile wanted to be the import fighting division they should have shown more confidence in the product in the first place. Ditto for the Aurora.
Speaking of style the thing that I dislike the most about the Intrigue's appareance is the Saturn inspired front end...ugleeee. Most oldsmobiles went with the grill less front styling which cheapens the looks of the car.
the Impala is either a love it or hate it design...and no matter what the car stands out about the sea of anonimous Asian rice burners...
The Impala owners are still one happy bunch...and it is not because the Intrigue will soon be out of the horizon (Most never consider it in the first place)..is because the Impala is a much better built solid car that doesn't creak, bang and rattle like the ultimate GM driving machine....
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the Impala had it's own share of consistant quality issues as well. If I'm not mistaken, you had some. Yours were fixed with the next year. But I could say with as much authority that the Intrigue problems were limited as my "problem" '98 was generally fine. Impala had problems with the engine cradle that was supposed to be so revolutionary along with other things. Nothing to burn the house down for but no better than Intrigue problems.
I think the real problem is, as b4z expressed, with service. Some Olds dealerships were/are just bums. One of the reasons I don't think I had any problems after getting the few things that were wrong fixed was because the dealer I use is genuinely concerned about customer service (I think there's money coming their way if they are rated high or something). And the techs, for the most part, seem to know what their doing.
Intrigue couldn't go to another division even if they wanted it. GM's already talking about combining Buick and Pontiac. Right there you have unnecessary redundancy with the Regal and Grand Prix. Plus, they're going to new platforms. So even if the Intrigue did survive, it too would be redone. That's the reason it isn't going to another divison-- not because of being a flop.
I am with you all the way on the warranty. My wife 3 years ago asked why they didn't at least try to match the powertrain warranty of the competition. Now they do it and cars fly off the lots. That's typical GM blundering. The question now is, How long will it take for them to ruin Buick?
Personally, while it does look Saturn-ish (as did all Oldsmobiles thru the latter part of the '90s) I love the front end of the Intrigue.
The question is this....can Buick successfully take on the failed mission of the Oldsmobile division to bring in new GM buyers???
If Buick gets rid of stale cars such as the Century, LeSabre and Park Avenue I am sure they will be able to make an interesting turn around of their image. The Rendezvous, for better or worse, is the first step in shaking up Buick's stodgy image. The upcoming Buick Cielo looks very promising altough some preliminary 'spy' drawings of the 2004 Regal replacement look sort a discouraging..
The Intrigue did awaken interest among the Import only buyers camp and some of you are clear proof of that. The issue was that this car did exhibited a lot of quality control problems in its early years. For the Intrigue to have successfully carved a niche of its own, GM should have followed up the car's introductory years with impeccable quality control and reliability. Had that been the case, the car today would have enjoyed a much better standing in the market place, better reputation, better resale value and quite possible no one would be talking about the dismissal of Olds from the marketplace. 1997 and 1998 were crucial years in the overall public acceptance of the Intrigue and this is the area of execution were GM dropped the ball all the way.
Sure, if buying a new 2001 or 2002 Intrigue is a heck of a deal...heavely discounted units and incredible finance bargains, a 5/60 standard limited warranty (Should have been there in the first place) and a promise of better reliability due to the fact that these cars are into their fourth and fifth production years....that's all fine and dandy but the Intrigue's time to make a lasting positive impression already passed 3 to 4 years ago.
Indeed Oldsmobile dealership service (or lack of thereof) also contributed to the brand failure due to bad reputation when problems became apparent in their vehicles.
And as to a bad quality reputation keeping sales low, as I already pointed out, if that made a significant difference then the Taurus, a poster child for rust, shody assembly, and hugely expensive drive train repairs, would have been canned years ago.
Ford sells lots of them to the fleet/rental car market. The Taurus also appeals to the would be Accord/Camry buyers just because offers bigger quarters and standard V6 on a mainstream and non-offensive looking package.
Ford success with the Taurus has been attributed to heavy marketing and sales incentives. Most people know that Taurus are also for the most part unreliable and have lots of engine, transmission, electrical and brake related quirks.
The Taurus SHO V8 was the best and only reason to look and consider buying a Taurus...but the moron known as Jac 'The Knife' Nasser discountinued it after 1999...