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jgriff : Depreciation should be calculated from the price paid, not the list. If it was, the difference between Honda and GM would not be all that big. I like to run cars for 8 years so re-sale is not a big deal for me any time.
teo : No Fords huh? That new T-bird is kind of nice. Like the Escape but it's still got bugs in it.
Cars don't have to be coddled or tweaked!!!!Pure BS; having the vast experience of 43 cars believe me; just change the oil and the filters is all you have to do..Do you think they test drive cars and bring them in for maintenance foolishness????
If they need an alignment and you feel guilty; go have one done and pray the clown does screw up the total alignment..
Lift the hood and count the ways to spend ones money!!!!
I notice the foreign car owners are hung up on dealer tweaks and checkups..
What wears out?????? Tires, Brakes, and what needs changing ????? oil and filters..The first 100k is easy and then if you want, you can start getting fussy..
Fan belts---maybe at 150k--never changed one yet on any car. They may crack along the edges; but lots of life left..
evandro:::::;The GT is a nice car and exhaust system sucks--el cheapo looking..The GTP is a great suspended car with a decent engine..The GT is a boy racer with no guts..You get the same drive line in an Impala LS, Buick Regal LS, Pontiac Bonneville SLE, Buick LeSabre and park ave..It's a cookie cutter drivetrain...Touring tires with 109 top end..
Cars are built to drive and not coddle..Radiator fluids and transmission fluids are good for 125k+..Ask the dealer and they will insist that it be changed or else you will be in trouble..
Don't forget the car guy is in business to make money, and he will get you in the showroom and then he goes after your wallet over and over in the back room..
I omitted one other item that goes bad on some of the cars---struts---a very important item..good ones will go the 100k--the crappy ones with the floppy suspensions are shot at 50k..
Enough for now; sorry I got into a groove and couldn't get out..
If the fuel req says 87, use it; mid-grade use it, and premium use it..Any kick using higher octanes is foolish and with harm the engine and waste your money..
Even though the Accord's finish materials were not impressively good, they were well fitted. GP's material was as good, IMHO, but the fitting left a lot, really a lot, to be desired: the headliner close to the rear window was rough and irregular, showing off dangling wires... :^/
I checked a Bonneville too and its fit and finish were very good! Even hard to think that both, it and the GP, came from the same brand!
I couldn't find an Intrigue to try, though. The dealer I would take my Alero for the rare services is not an Olds one anymore. Looks like I'll have to find another for an eventual service... :^(
I tend to fall into a rut when addressing the other offerings and upset too many people..
Sorry your town has run out of Intrigues; so it is probably best to buy something that you can get serviced locally..
When I got involved with the 98 Intrigue there were no GTPs around to get reasonable pricing so I went the other route..
The service setup has stopped my purchase of an 02 even in the larger city it will be a problem and my favorite dealer is 60 miles away is not comforting..Don't need the grief anymore..
Just to let every one here know, they said it was coming from a high pressure steering hose and engineering was working on it.
Guess I just have to wait and see
Radiator fluid? Every 3 years. Many manuals say flush it each winter.
Air filters? Just pull the old one, whack it on the curb, stick it back in. They're good for 25K or more.
Fuel injection cleaner? OK, a few times, when I had a coupon... but the car ran fine beforehand and I suspected it was a frill. I'm of the theory that if you drive A LOT (20K or more a year) that your fuel injection cleans itself, from heavy use.
Belts? I've followed the service intervals, but had a belt break twice anyway. One was an old belt with 40K on it. OK-- that happens, bad luck. But the other time was less than 5K after a belt job. I suspect because they installed some ozone dried-out belts. Go figure!
Shocks? Ya know, my poor old Mazda (with a quarter million on the odo') is still on the OEM shocks. (Although I did replace them on my old '74 Plymough Valiant when they were about 15 years old! :-) )
However, I've been willing to change motor oil and transmission fluid on the service intervals. (Engines and trannys aren't cheap to replace.) I usually change the fuel filter regularly too. I've had bad experiences with "no-name" independent gas stations, and I prefer to play safe in this area!
#2 I see lots of discussion about cabin air filters implying they are standard equipment. My manual says "if so equipped" and I don't see any evidence of door on the cowl so I am assuming I don't have one. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks.
Air filter-new-every 25k..Fuel filters never; buy gas at the good high volume stations..last fuel filter was for a 78 Merc Cougar 351..
I only read the car manual to familiarize myself with the climate control and audio systems..Beyond that the service is pure hogwash and a waste of money..
Oil changes are vital..Transmission fluid change once, weak moment in Fla-91 Caddy Touring sedan and that meant I could drive it harder back to Mich..
in the old days, it was points, and plugs; maybe a little carb adjustment..I haven't had plugs changed in a car, in fact I have no idea when that last happened..
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1623100770
mosaix: The 3.5L engine sounds like a racing engine, because it is based on one... The Northstar!
I get spoiled with the 3.5. I sometimes think all cars will do this if you force them. Not true. When I have to borrow a Ford Escort or Toyota Echo at work, floor one of those at highway speed and the main result is more noise than acceleration. Makes me glad to get back into my Intrigue.
http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories0806/gmprod806.htm
http://www.just-auto.com/features_detail.asp?art=540&app=1&c=1
A few things caught my attention: the steering groaning issue is listed for 98 and 99 but not 00 and 01. When I had my car in to resolve this I was told "no fix from GM at this time". I wonder what the bulletin details are? And if the 00s and 01s don't have this issue, how can there not be a fix? Isn't it the same power steering system?
The dimming lights issue is listed on all years. Don't know if they have a handle on that yet but I'll find out soon since that plus fan motor fluctuation warrants my return for another crack at the alternator.
I also noticed there are many bulletins on 00s and 01s regarding transmission that aren't mentioned on 98s and 99s, which, again begs the question: don't we all have the same tranny? Maybe the difference lies in the PCS.
TSBs can be seen at the following site but they are vague and don't include all of them. Alldata.com is another site for TSBs.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/servicemmy1.cfm
Wait six months and the list for the 99ers will grow with a great percentage out of warranty; and who gives a hoot then????? Timing is everything..
Lutz will not save Olds for legally it is too far along with the dealers..
mosaix : Totally agree with you on the Intrigue. It seems like it's all GX models left around here also. That being said, many of these are special editions with free PCS which is a great deal.
I am curious to see what he does with the 2006 Impala.
"76,554 units were sold in the first quarter of 2001, almost exactly the same as in 2000, in a market down 5.8%. The division was down to a 45-day supply inventory, with availability of certain car models almost drying up."
What auto maker wouldn't want to be in that position?
"This all brings up the question of whether the death sentence was justified in the first place. Even the Oldsmobile spokesman conceded that the termination announcement had "increased brand awareness"! Three months after the fateful announcement, dealers are still confused and furious. Vast the American market may be, but a rate of nearly 300,000 sales a year is not chickenfeed."
Shows how pathetic the marketing was/is when you can announce the death of a brand and have that do more to increase "brand awareness" than by advertising like they should have.
"Name one foreign automaker," he asks, "that would walk away from 280,000 sales a year?"
Uh, let me think. GM.
"With Buick selling only 100,000 units more than Oldsmobile, he wonders just how safe that division is."
Have I not been saying this very same thing since last December? And with the ugly Regal on the horizon, it'll just get worse.
"At the recent NADA convention in Las Vegas, comments such as "They don't know what they're doing"... were heard around the hall."
Pretty much says it all.
in said article, replace "Does all this give you the impression that GM really does not know what it is doing? "
with...
"Does all this give you the impression that RON ZARELLA really does not know what it is doing?
in short YES.
Maybe if we all mailed tech@knfilters.com at once and asked them about their plans for the Intrigue, they'd notice us.
Considering that you can get K&N filters for low volume klunkers like the Achieva, I don't know why they couldn't support the 3.5L.
My problem is somewhat different than yours and we pretty well nailed it down..The fix on your car was unique..
Thanks again for the assistance!!!!!
You can find it on their website and have in a couple days..I had the Olds dealer install it..Total car mileage is 48K miles
Not being critical, just realistic because they are prone to act bad and I found out today how bad our service advice is in Michigan..
We both had to laugh at the price..Olds stuck everything they could find on this one..
one2one : I am very disappointed if that is going to be the new Regal regardless of what is under the hood. The only hope GM has for keeping me as a midsize customer is the next generation Grand Prix. Maybe Saturn will wise up and make that L-series a bit bigger.
You gotta wonder why they would scrap a virtually new design.
BTW, thanks for posting the TSB list. I found my tranny problem (already fixed) on there.
I'll look for that article.
Now if they clean it up a bit and then, the $64k question is what is their QC & reliability, both short & long term. Does anyone here have any first or second hand experiences with late model Pontiacs.
I know I would prefer the image of a Pontiac over say an AARP Buick, and Chevy well less just say it is towards the bottom of the GM totem pole. [Sorry Teo, got to call like I see it].
Owners of these cars seem to be happy about their purchases and very few problems have been reported.
Before you throw your line about Pontiacs and Cladding, the Bonneville SE sedan doesn't have any cladding attached. The top of the line SSE-i has more of it however.
Ditto for the Pontiac Grand Prix on SE, GT and GTP forms.
Grand AM's (N Body cars) and Sunfire (J body cars) are rather mediocre.
The upcoming 2003 Pontiac Vibe will be built off the all new 2003 Toyota Corolla platform. It will use the Toyota Corolla/Celica engines (The Vibe GT version will use the 1.8L DOHC 180HP found in the Celica GT-S and a 6-speed manual). The Vibe will replace the Chevy Prizm and the Pontiac Sunfire. The Prizm will be discontinued after 2001 to make room for the Vibe production. The Vibe will be built off GM/Toyota's NUMMI plant in California. Also this model will have no traces of cladding whatsoever.
The Impala LS and AARP car? To each his own. Actually go over the Impala topic...most Impala LS owners are between the ages of 20 and 35, some single, the rest mostly married and professional like myself. I guess we all had a sudden urge for Geritol at this stage in life..
FYI.. I had a 98 Grand Prix for 2 years before it was totalled. Not one problem. Gas, oil and tire rotations is all she needed.
Now, I don't know anyone who has a Bonnie, but I do know who has a GP: it rides very well and loves to go around corners. However, the fit and finish of interior panels and dashboard leave a lot to be desired. Actually, I'd say unacceptable nowadays...
At the Fairfax, Kansas City plant where the Oldsmobile Intrigue is also manufactured.
The Bonneville is made at the Orion, Ohio assembly plant where the Olds Aurora, Buick LeSabre and Cadillac Seville are made.
I agree, the Bonneville seems to be a cut above the GP in terms of assembly quality.
The 205 hp 3.8 runs great and consistently delivers upper 20s mpg on regular gas. I've experienced trip runs of 30 and 32 mpg.
The ride is comfortable and smooth with good response and handling although not as tight as an SSEi would be. No floating or harshness issues.
I had been hoping to buy an Impala LS - preowned to save some $$$ but while searching (unsuccessfully) this winter, I found this pre leased 1 yr old car with 18K miles on it. 14K miles later I am totally pleased with the car and highly recommend it.
I understand Bonneville is probably going to be eliminated in a few years - just glad I got to have this beauty before they axed one of GM's best models ever.
Best wishes
Ken
http://www.morningsun.net/stories/050700/bus_0507000014.shtml
That is the engineering and tooling side of the game; has absolutely nothing to do with worker..The worker slaps on what they are given and it ain't their fault..
Frankly the union doesn't want the responsibility of fit and finish; that's management's baliwick..
Gas mileage on a fill-up today was 24.45..Lots of city a/c on 90+ degrees and 60% interstate blast at 2500 revs cruise..
The car needs a new air filter also..
The exhaust is not loud; but it is considerably louder than std..