Oldsmobile Intrigue

swagled

Even after 9 months of ownership I'm still feeling out the capabilities of my vehicle. Today I was willing to hop up to about 87mph/140kph to pass some people. The tach was at 5500... so with another 500-800 revs to go, it looks like 2nd gear (passing gear) is probably good to 95mph if you're so inclined!

Last night I took an exit ramp, and anticipating a 90 degree turn, did not slow enough... this was a 180 degree ramp. Traction control (or antilock?) easily took care of the excess speed. In an older model car I'm sure I would have ended up using the shoulder to compensate.

Since the standard Intrigue takes care of situations like this just fine, I'm inclined to think the main reason to get PCS is the short axle, moreso than for handling characteristics. (But I'd stil like to make that comparison sometime.)

dindak

bz4 : Thanx for the info. Whish I could afford and be allowed to have a Saab. Cool cars! Hummer is likely out.

one2one : The CTS looks sweet. If Cadillac executes well, the division should flourish. Evoq is also a very cool car. First time I have ever been excited about Cadillac.

ab348

I would disagree about the chances of Buick, and to a lesser extent, of Cadillac being dropped. I think Buick could be very vulnerable. They have a very distinct group of buyers, and if GM tries to reposition them the way they did with Olds, I think we could well see the same sort of sales disaster and the division could go.

Cadillac is less likely to go simply from a prestige standpoint. However, they are taking a huge risk with cars like the CTS which, IMO, looks downright awful in the pics I've seen. I cannot imagine many Cadillac buyers liking it. If they continue along that path and Caddy sales tank, what can they do? Their traditional buyers will have gone to Lincoln or Lexus or wherever, and there might not be enough new buyers to pay back their investment. It is so close to what they tried with Olds it is scary.

I had an interesting and somewhat depressing conversation with a GM loyalist today. He was lamenting the corporation's record over the last few years and said that he has encountered many buyers who simply will no longer consider any GM car because they find them unappealing and they have a bad reputation. He equated the image that these people have to that others may have for brands like Daewoo or Hyundai. How sad. I dunno if things are truly that bad, but GM is at a critical point and I dunno if they have the horses to pull themselves out of the hole they have dug for themselves.

dindak

"Traditional" older buyers will always have a car in the Cadillac fold. The DeVille is new and I'm sure it will be replaced with a similar car some day. Lexus has a traditional cruiser and Cadillac does and will also. Not a big issue.

redline65

My wife said she hates the front end of the CTS. I'm not particularly excited about it either. I think it's going to be another love-it or hate-it type of car for GM. So now she may have to go with an Aurora 4.0.

vcjumper

Is pretty out there, like Ford new edge gone awry. I'm more inclined towards the latest baby benz or c320, though I saw one of the new 230 coupe/hatchbacks parked outside of Philthy's last night and its cloth interior was not very flattering.

9899olds

Buick and Pontiac are safe along with Chevy and Cadillac is always the plum..So after Olds is finally knifed the overseas GM owned offerings will be grouped together..

mosaix

I don't think GM's image is on the same level as Hyundai or Daewoo at all. They have some excellent cars and designs. Case in point, nearly everyone who I know who has seen my new Intrigue really likes the car. The new Cadillac CTS will be an interesting car. They styling is definitely different, but if the car has the performance to back up it's image, I think it will succeed. I also need to see one in person before making a final judgement on the looks. I also think Cadillac's future is safe. If another brand gets the ax, it will likely be Buick. Hopefully this will not happen. The only current Buick I would really consider is the Regal, but I still hope the brand survives. I guess it just bothers me that we are seeing so many long standing, well known American brands being sold out, closing, or being phased out. And I'm not just talking about automobiles. Whats even worse is half-assed brands like Hyundai and Kia are increasing in sales.

b4z

The front is better than the side view.

dindak

mosaix : The Koreans are skimming the bottom of the market. Most of the people driving these things are lower income families or students. Save a few grand and hope for the best I guess. Hyundia has come a long way from the Pony, but it's still nothing great. Kia is crap, especially the Sportage.

vcjumper : Hey, I was at Philthy's tonight. You talking Oakville or Burlington?

teo

http://www.auto.com/industry/cowger10_20010810.htm

9899olds

http://www.auto.com/industry/iwird10_20010810.htm

one2one

Saw a show on PBS a while ago that highlighted that back in the '50 an American fellow (whose name I forgot) tried to help the Big 3 make their production process more efficient. They, of course, declined. He went to Japan and help those manufacturers improve their process that they continue to this day. The company that took his advice and ran with it?:

Toyota

one2one

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Dindak loves the new CTS; redline65 sounds like even a free one wouldn't be in his driveway (that "free" thing might change his mind :-) .

That's what I'm not understanding from the GM design studios. What's with the obsession to make cars that send people to opposite ends of the spectrum? First the Aztek, now the CTS. I've seen a lot of the new Escalades on the road. I like them, but I can easily see and understand why some would not. If their trying to get new customers, I would think that designs that were intresting yet moderate would be a better choice. The new Aurora may not be as dynamicly styled as the original but it's more interesting to look at than a TL yet not so boldly styled that it will set conseratives off. Even better, the Intrigue and Alero are perfect examples of the way the design studio should make cars. While not everyone will like the styling, more people than not think they look great.

9899olds

one2one::::::They started in this country with a clean sheet of paper using their own suppliers who are told what to charge..period....

The lean bit and the Deming only goes so far..

The Big 3 structure is awesome in comparison and is changing to lower costs.. The consolidation of suppliers is ongoing at a rapid pace and will displace alot of wage earners..

Having been involved with the automotive on and off for years as a supplier it has been fun, rewarding, and as a commissioned rep for the last 12 yrs,.."what a ride!!!!"

Love the Big 3 and the mystic it holds along with its ability to survive on thin pricing..

The fun is gone from the industry side so within the next 10 months it's off to enjoy the "Golden Years", maybe get another occupation???

focus

of their lean and mean restructering strategy resulted in much higher car cost over the years (way higher than inflation)and mediocre improvment in quality.

teo

Edward Demming. He is the 'Father' of the Toyota Manufacturing System, the hallmark of the auto industry.

jgriff

dindak :::
>>> mosaix : The Koreans are skimming the bottom of the market. Most of the people driving these things are lower income families or students. Save a few grand and hope for the best I guess. Hyundia has come a long way from the Pony, but it's still nothing great. Kia is crap, especially the Sportage >>>

I would agree with your comments about the lower income folks, but lets think about this strategy a bit, if those people have a half-way decent experience then it is likely that they may become repeat buyers. Is this not the same strategy Toyota started with back in the 60's and Honda in the 70's ?? I am certain that longer warranties also have an appeal, due to some people's strap cash-flow positions. Chrysler used their 5/70k warranty to kick-start their sales back in the 80's, problem was the cars did not hold up that long.

The Big-3 should be very concerned about the Koreans, cause it looks like they are trying to duplicate the Japanese plans. And if they [GM] thinks they have their hands full with Toyota/Honda/Nissan/Subie now, wait till the bottom feeders [Hyundia, Kia] start getting it RIGHT.

I'm telling you guys after the initial styling & pricing part, people want cars that are RELIABLE!! The Cam/Cords are NOT anything that outstanding to look at, but most people have had very good luck with them and they keep coming back for more.

one2one ::: hold on dude, do you really know anyone who likes the Aztek ???

9899-Olds ::: Saturn started with a clean sheet, and they've got the same couple of sheets setting in front of them. Not a much has changed over 10 some odd years.

dindak

I think the Japanese companies are just as worried about the Koreans as the American companies. Bottom feeding will cut into sales of Civics and Sentras just as much as Neons and Cavaliers. The quality is certainly better than it was in the 80s and 90s.

Camry and Accord are reliable BUT, they are losing that advantage on a daily basis. The mediocre designs of these cars will catch up with them in the years to come. The new Altima will likely be only the first strike.

-------

one2one : I wouldn't say I love the CTS, but it's an attractive car. Then again, I like Saabs a lot also. Unique and attractive are they key. Aztek I don't like much.

evandro

About the American auto industry's past, present and (gloomy) future.

vcjumper

I usually go to the one in Oakville after playing a bit of outdoor bball with co-workers. This week was too hot so we just went straight there!

dindak

Sounds good. I always forget how good looking the waitresses are there. Great wings and likely the best bar in Oakville. Sharky's isn't bad either.

one2one

jgriff:: I must have gotten heatstroke :-)

Korean cars:: I'm not sure if the Korean makes are moving in the direction they are because they're trying to follow the Japanese pattern on purpose or if it's simply that they see an opportunity and are taking it.

I read an article recently that pointed out that the major car companies have all but forgotten the entry level segment. GM, Ford and Chrysler certainly have. So have Honda (to a lesser extent), Nissan and especially Toyota. So there's a huge market that the Big Boyz are overlooking.

I remember back in the 70's when Datsun (Nissan for you young-bucks), Toyota and Honda only made small cars. Even their big cars were small! But there was that little thing with the oil during those times too. Now is as good a time as ever for the Koreans to make a move with the still overinflated gas prices at the pump. It'll be interesting to see how they work it.

one2one

Is it me, or has GM been super quiet the last, oh, decade with special vehicles? The last one that comes to my mind is the Impala SS in the mid-90's. Other than that, where are they?

I read the article on the Ford Lighting. They listed just some of Ford's SVT (Special Vehicles Team) models then touched on AMG and BMW's M cars. The OSV Intrigue would have been nice. The Buick Regal GNX was made but that was just for show. GM has no special vehicles planned to hit the streets unless the always present Grand Prix GTP and Regal GS are their SVs. Or am I just not looking in the right place?

swagled

Not all bottom feeders "move up". The first new car my mother bought was a base 1977 Toyota Corolla. And I mean *BASE*. It had a 4 (not 5) speed manual transmission, and it used a 1.2 (not the usual 1.6) liter Toyo motor. No A/C, no radio, vinyl seats. Yuck. (It later became my hand-me-down "college beater" ....)

So... Her next two cars? A 1985 Ford Escort (also absolutely *BASE*) and a 1991 Ford Escort. (Not quite base, since it did have a radio! :-) )

US manufacturers only build small cars in the hope that people will "move up" and buy the bigger, more profitable cars later. Chintzy customers like my mom don't appeal to them or help the bottom line.

I'm sure there are some boardroom types in Detroit who say most cheap customers are like my mom, and there'd be no point building small cars at all if it wasn't for CAFE regulations.

ab348

I too wonder about this so-called polarizing theme. I hate that word, incidentally; it implies that people either love it or hate it. While that may be true in some cases, in others it is a matter of mostly hate i.e. the Aztek. So in that sense the word is misused as an alternative to the more blunt "ugly".
You have to lay the blame on Wayne Cherry as GM's head of design. He is responsible for the Aztek, the overdone cladding on Pontiacs, the Impala, the Monte Carlo, the Avalanche, and I suspect he might have been the guy responsible for the GM "Orca" big RWD cars that killed that platform. The guy simply is a bad designer. I saw my first Chevy Avalanche in the flesh today and it was absolutely repulsive, almost worse than the Aztek because of the sheet size of the thing. So there's no end in sight for this stuff.
Having said that, you wonder how clean designs like the Intrigue and Alero made it thru. It's like he has a split personality. Either that, or he delegates a whole bunch.
As for the CTS, I really do not like the pics I've seen and I doubt if Cadillac buyers or even salespeople will either.
Interesting commentary at www.autoextremist.com the other day: in a nutshell, it said that Cherry will take Lutz thru the design hall to look at upcoming cars, and Lutz will say something like "no, no, no, no, no, no, yes, maybe, no, no, no, no..." I suspect that may be well the case with Cherry's work.

teo

Is out of GM as of next year. He is 65 so he will finally retire from his post. It will not come as a surprise if Bob Lutz decides to promote Brian Nesbitt (PT Cruiser designer) to the vacant position of GM's Vice President of design. Nesbitt is only 32 years old (Right now he is the lead designer for Chevrolet) and he would be the right person for the job IMO.

The Corvette C5 and Impala were designed by John Cafaro. I personally like them both as I totally dislike the boring Japanese theme in most new sedans in the market. The plain looks of the current Accord and Camry make my big butt Impala to stand up among the crowd of me too rice burners. Love or hate it...that's my theme

In the mean time I think that Germany and the Europeans in general have the best and most appealing designs in the market. The Japanese have nothing outstanding or interesting in this area for now...

dindak

You are a very negative poster. While not everything is rosy at GM, it seems like you have nothing nice to say.

I agree, the Aztek was way overboard. If it were a niche vehicle fine, but this was suppose to be a big seller. Avalanche is a niche truck, so I think GM will be ok with that. Ugly ya, but to each his own.

As for the CTS, I think it looks sharp and is probably right on track. I don't think you can compare it to the Aztek and I don't think it looks all that out there (as some pictures may suggest). Cadillac is in a tuff spot and not everyone will love what they are doing. I do think that there will be a large group that will like these new generation Cadillacs though.

evandro

I haven't seen one myself and only very few pictures. But I dare say I liked it!

I had the same mixed feelings about the Evoq until I saw one in front of me. The car is just beautiful!

Unlike most up scale Japanese cars, the CTS does not try to mimic BMW's or MB's design cues. It wants to stand on its own right and I think it does it nicely.

And if people in this segment buy ugly cars like the IS300 and the Maxima, the CTS will shine! Well, I reserve the right to retract this after I see it myself, just in case... ;^)

9899olds

jgriff:::::they had the albatross right on their doorstep from day one--labor!!!! I don't think GM got any big handouts from the state of Tenn..Internally GM lost money building the Saturn since they sourced everything in-house that they could.. In recent years that has changed and they have gone to the outside for supply..Volumes got so low they have had some supplier problems, especially the LS 300 program..

This was Roger Smiths legacy along with a ton of screwups. Roger also couldn't stand Ross P and gave him almost a billion bucks..

Our domestic industry is steeped in blunders and on the flip side, lots of victories..

Hate to get sentimental, but my memories are Detroit and its clout; a big generation gap that anybody under 45 wouldn't really realize or probably care..It's very easy to bad mouth Detroit..

I have driven the Intrigue harder than any car due mainly to my dislike for it's noisy demeanor..

At 49k with "no checkups" since new it needs tires only and another air filter..It leaks no fluids and loves the 2250/2750 level which is 75/90.. Other than brakes early on, no tweaking required for anything..

Now why would I want to risk this type of reliabilty going to an Acura which is more expensive, and smaller?..I know the dealer on this side of town for I had several Buicks in his repair facility..He is a Buick/Nissan/Honda/Acura and his Buick service brains are real clowns..Never ever have purchased a car at the place..

If a car requires service checkups; it ain't in my garage..No tweaking allowed..Oil changes and tire rotations are the only service required..Even the returned Intrigue was reliable, had steering and brake problems; otherwise it was a runner.

jgriff

C&D Sept. issue [which I just recd.] has a short preview on the CTS.

In short they mention that they were not too crazy about it, and that Cadillac may be betting too much on the new looks & designs.

Only time will tell whether the dogs [consumers] like it or hate it. If it is the latter Cadillac may be in for some MORE rough times, cause the look/theme is supposed to be carried over to other Caddy models as well.

swagled

jgriff:
>> It leaks no fluids and loves the 2250/2750 level which is 75/90..

Now that gas is getting down to $1.55 a gallon in CA, I'm allowing myself to leave the Intrigue in 3rd gear more often. 70MPH is about 2800-3000 RPM and that's where the motor really starts to assert itself.

Every day I hop around nimrods in their uber-machine Benzies and Bimmers, jakking on cell phones, taking up valuble space in the left lane.

UGGHH. >:-|

Ifen you drivzen der performance makshinery, putten der footen on der gasen ,and *GO*!!

ab348

I wish you hadn't branded me as negative. I have not called you a GM apologist for your Pollyanna-ish view of GM. I think both labels would be unfair.

Things are not as bad as I say? Perhaps you're right; maybe they are worse. Let's look at the record, shall we? I have about $3000 in GM card cash and there is not one thing they make that I can spend it on. I would have gone for an Intrigue, but they killed Olds. That means the Alero is out also. I don't want a fullsize truck (too big) and their small pickups are too narrow and have severe quality issues according to all reports. The entire Chevy lineup is unappealing. The Pontiac people come closest but I can't stand their boy-racer tendencies. The only Buick I like is the top-line one and it's too expensive. Saturns are dull, mean, unappealing cars. So I'm out of luck.

I want to like GM. No one wants GM to do well more than I do. I have always been a GM kid and currently own 3 old GM cars. But ever since the days of Roger Smith the management has consistently run GM into the ground. Their product is unappealing, their design either dull or repulsive, and their engineering increasingly questionable. I have a friend who owns a '97 Olds 88 LSS. It was a big move for him, but he is much like me and wanted to support GM. What he has now, about a year out of warranty and with 80,000 km on the clock, is a designed-in transmission flaw that GM knows about and will do nothing to fix that will cost him between $1300-2500 to put right. The car is babied, yet things are going wrong. Most recently the CD player packed it in, and he was told, "oh, those only last 3 years anyway". Is that what you get when you spend $30K on a new GM car? If so then maybe I'm too positive in my assessment of GM.

Instead of making investments in better product they spend their money on things like the Aztek and the Avalanche. They are no more a car company these days than P&G, or so it seems. They are not interested in making cars, only in making money. Hence the decontenting of vehicles, the cheap mouse-gray cloth interiors, the reliance on quick-and-easy gimmicks rather than solid engineering. And it has been like that for *decades* now. What are these people thinking? No one there knows what used to make GM great or what a good car consists of. They're all a bunch of soap salesmen.

OK, I feel better now. And I'll try not to be so negative in the future. But I'll still be upset.

ab348

I just remembered something else I meant to say. This is legit and not meant to get your goat, Dindak...

You know what vehicle on the market these days really grabs me with a combination of high style, eye appeal, good performance, and known levels of quality? In other words, all of the things that GM used to have a lock on?

I saw it last weekend and if my GM card cash could have been used on it, I would have it in my driveway right now. It was the Acura 3.2 CL Type S in what the Acura guys call "pimpmobile gold" paint. Just beautiful. A sharp-looking, stylish car you would be proud to drive, and one that likely will not disappoint you before the payment book is used up.

I know you and jgriff have had an ongoing debate here and this is not intended to exploit that. But maybe, just maybe, he is right on some things.

And I assure you, you have no idea how hard it is for me to write what I just wrote. That, my friend, is how far GM has fallen.

9899olds

You will be picking the engine /trans up in paper bag soon..My revs are in DRIVE..Either you are spending too much time in the sun or the drinking water is polluted..

The Mercs and the Bimmers aren't worrying about you so unless you have the top end package, your buns are beat!!!

9899olds

you will never know until you commit to the other guys..I hope you are ready to assume full responsibility for bailing out. The queen would really be disappointed, and you will answer to the emperor!!!

Maybe the cars are being dumped in Canada...The taxes in your country are getting a little out of hand..I assume you work for a non-automotive type of business.

Canada is a neat country to visit and a great setup for shipping to the USA and billing US $..Great rate on exchange..I love the system..

I spent some time each month in the Niagara-on-the-Lake region and it is grand..

focus

Ask what GM will do for us! We would love stars and stripe too if our money is worth 50% more. I am in a similar dilemma as AB348. Be it positive or negative, a feedback is always a good feedback.

swagled

ab348 >> ? I have about $3000 in GM card cash and there is not one thing they make that I can spend it on. I would have gone for an Intrigue, but they killed Olds. ... The Pontiac people come closest but I can't stand their boy-racer tendencies.
------

I'd say judge the cars on their merits rather than who drives them. I had to overcome a similar feeling about buying an OOOOLLLLDSmobile but I did anyway.

Yeah, Olds is going away, but there will be parts for years to come. Plus, GM finally upped the warranty when they killed the brand. We might still be stick in 36 month warranty mode otherwise...

9899Olds: I don't think driving in "3" (some of the time) harms the car. There's a lot of stop and go traffic on the highways in metropolitan CA, so you don't get to troll steadily at 2200 RPM in overdrive anyway. (But late at night, with nobody around, I can just leave it in "D" and set the cruise.)

An no, the heat's just fine. We're having a mild summer, in fact-- despite all the power grid doomsday talk a few months ago.

focus

AB348: There was a saab 9-3 demo for $27900 cdn. I would still prefer the intrigue.

dindak

Don't get me wrong... GM has lots of problems. That said, if you are going to spend C$35-40K on a 3.2TL, then you shouldn't complain you can't afford a top of the line Pontiac. You say you can't buy an Intrigue. Last time I checked, they were still for sale as were Auroras and Aleros. How about a Saab? You can get a 9-5 in the low to mid C$30K range, not much more than an Intrigue. Saab just won an award for best initial quality. Your CDN GM dollars will buy you anything at an SSI dealer also.

Have you seen the new SUV triplets (Trailblazer/Bravada/Envoy)?? Beautiful trucks! How about a Rendezvous? They look great in dark blue. There is more good GM stuff coming also. The CTS in January and the Saturn VUE in late fall.

GM still does make a lot of mediocre cars BUT, there is a lot of good here and coming also. While I am still mad that GM killed Oldsmobile, word is getting out that Pontiac is moving up in terms of sophistication and perhaps there will be a car for me again when my Intrigue dies.

Cheer up and take another look.

dindak

Just wanted it to be me.

;-)

white6

"Acura TL is a so-so $35,000 car, but a great $28,000 car."
My quote: Intrigue is a so-so $28,000 car, but a great $22,000 car.

jg28

It's much more favorable. As I said, I think the improvements to the 2001 must've changed their mind somewhat.

Does anyone that actually has a 1998 Intrigue really know that it has heated outdoor mirrors? Or was that just a rumor? One thing I sure hate about the 2001 models is the elimination of the remote fuel door release. Dumb.

9899olds

You are in luck for I have the window stickers for my initial 98 GLS and current 99 GLS..Both cars have heated power foldaway outside mirrors..Also both cars have the power fuel door release..

white6::::::I like your value quip assessment of the Acura and the Intrigue..Haven't seen any 02 Zs yet..Lost my steam for one right now, for there are too many irons in the fire.. Selling the Mich home, at least trying, and making bids on Fla properties. Stilling working the rep business of forgings and castings, trying to find a place to put money to earn a decent return and working on the golf game..Golf sucks right now; had a bad 18 today..

Made an offer on the 99 Concurs Thursday-the 11k mile car-offered 20k, they are at 23900, little spread, but don't think it would matter if I upped it to 22k, may have to wait until the end of month.. This week is tax week for the extension filers and so it starts off wrong..

dindak:::::The Rendezvous is ugly, not butt ugly like the Aztec..If GM can't do any better than either one of those offerings as psuedo SUVs; they should scrap the tooling and kill the body line..

Somebody on this forum mentioned the high-priced Buick as their dream car; I assume the Park Ultra which is probably one of the biggest automotive rip-offs going on..The Buick lineup is puzzling and it doesn't improve..

I went through three Buicks, new jobbies and their suspension is junko,junko..I used to call Goodyear for tire replacement and they always came back and asked"you are driving a Buick,right?"..

Another funny sight is Goodyear LS tires on a $50k
STS Cadillac, they come equipped with them from the factory..

focus

Dindak, on your #4000 post! Are you going to be around for the next millennium?
White 6: your comment is dead on, everyone (thing) has a price...

mosaix

Ordered the factory service manual for my Intrigue and it came yesterday. What a wealth of information. It's a two book set and explains just about everything you would ever want to know about the car. I've only had a chance to skim through parts of it. So far, I've learned the yaw rate sensor and accelerameter for the PCS system is mounted beneath the center console. I was looking at the section on the ABS and it said the car has a Bosch 5.3 ABS unit. I think Bosch is who Cadillac, MB, and BMW use for their ABS systems. Also interesting is the PCM is mounted in the cold box where the air cleaner is. Basically, the car has 3 computers. The PCM which controls the powertrain and it's various functions, the BCM which controls and monitors bodywide functions like the door looks, auto lights, retained accessory power, etc and then there is the EBCM which controls the brakes, ABS, traction control, and PCS. In a nutshell, there is alot of technology packed into this car. I don't think alot of people realize just how advanced these cars are. It certainly ain't your father's Oldsmobile. If Olds had advertised or even demonstrated some of their advanced features, I think the Intrigue would have been much more successful.

lmacmil

An even better deal is a 16 month old Intrigue with 22K miles at $14,500. Yeah, I had a major tranny repair but the only cost was 3 days without the car. I've still got 16 months and 11K miles left on the warranty. Maybe it's because I'm old enough to remember $10K fully equipped cars but I just can't bring myself to spend $20K plus on a brand new car when 1 or 2 year old, low mileage rentals or lease turn-ins are available. My last new car was a 1990 and I don't think I'll ever buy another.

lmacmil

Mosaix: There are 4 major brake suppliers today, Bosch, TRW (formerly Kelsey Hayes), Conti-Teves, and Delphi. With the exception of Delphi, who supplies mostly (if not exclusively) GM, each supplier supplies each OEM on one model or another. Every car maker has a "favorite" supplier who is usually the one who has given them the least amount of problems in the recent past. Bosch has had a very close relationship with MB for many years and most advanced systems appear initially on MB cars (where cost is not much of a factor.) Bosch's first US business was with Cadillac in the mid-80s.

b4z

There is a bosch plant here in North Charleston, SC. I beleive it supplies anti lock brake components among other things. It has had two expansions in the last few years. I am sure they are supplying the BMW plant in Greer, SC.

9899olds

You have the Motor City supplier bit on brakes pretty well laid out for us..Are you in the supply chain to the Big 3???? or just a studied spectator?????