I work for Bosch in South Bend, Ind. Bosch bought the brake business of AlliedSignal (now Honeywell, formerly Bendix) in 1996. In South Bend, we design/develop all the "base brake" components, i.e., everything except ABS.
For b4z: The Bosch plant in Charleston makes the hydraulic control unit for the anti-lock systems as well as fuel injectors. The plant in Anderson makes the ECU and electric motors.
ab348 & dindak ::: I'm not saying a word, not gonna add any fuel to the fire.
white6 ::: >>>"Acura TL is a so-so $35,000 car, but a great $28,000 car." My quote: Intrigue is a so-so $28,000 car, but a great $22,000 car. <<<
Well put, my only 2 cents is that maybe the Trig price needs to be closer to the 20k mark. I would have not bought my CL in mid 30-price range.
** Attractive pricing is half the battle **
I had a bad day on the golf course yesterday,,,I think I'll layout off for a couple of weeks, and then QUIT. [hehehe]. Sometimes I just hate the heck out of this friggn game.
I remember a few months ago, you really were excited about the Rendezvous. I noticed in a recent post you said "they look good in blue". Are you still as high on them as you once were? I was interested in them due to all the pre-release hoopla and all the cool stuff I got in the mail. They looked really attractive in the pictures. But then I saw a few on the road and was kind of turned off by them. Still much better than the Aztek, but they look a little bit too mini-van-ish for my taste. I think now, when my old Blazer bites the dust I might actually be looking at the Trailblazer, which had the opposite effect on me. Thought the Envoy and Bravada were much nicer looking in the photos, but in person the TB is really a good looking truck.
Crossover car is settling for the something that is not made by the Big 3..New definition????
I sure didn't start the trend..
jgriff:::::::what is your thought??? My golf game straightened out today on the 10th hole and stayed okay to the end..Lack of focus in the game is bad..Next week I am limiting myself to three days of golf, 7 hrs of work, and submit my taxes by the 15th...
Beautiful sight:::::tire wear at 49k miles with no rotation in the last 18k miles..No cupping/flat spotting or uneven tread wear..The Intrigue suspension is pure high end cruising caliber stuff..
Live in pot hole country--called Detroit, Mich and the snow belt..
I think the first ABS units Cadillac used in the 80s were made by Teves which is(or was then) a German firm. The 86 Cadillac Deville, Buick Park Avenue, and Olds Ninety-Eight were among the first GM cars to offer ABS. It was a $1000+ option then I believe. But better yet was a cellular phone on an 86 Caddy as it was about $1999. GM used Kelsey-Hayes on their trucks and SUVs in the early 90s and had some serious problems with those systems if I remember. I used to have an 89 Olds which had the Teves system and it worked well except the pedal pulsed violently when the ABS kicked in. It's my understanding this was the nature of the beast back then.
tlc125, the new Trailblazer, Envoy, and Bravada are wonderful SUVs. I was seriously looking at a Trailblazer before I got the Intrigue, but they were just a bit more than I wanted to spend. Especially to get one equipped the way I wanted. If your SUV shopping though, they are the certainly the way to go. That new I-6 engine is absolutely wonderful and for an SUV, they handle and ride very well.
tlc125 : Still like the Rendezvous a lot. Took a test drive over a month ago and was not disappointed. It's a little quirky, but it's well built and handy for a growing family. May get one, or may get an Alero depending on if we think we can live with out a truck/van for another 3 years come next June. Why spend the $$ on a truck/van if you don't need it yet. Time will tell.
9899olds : I think RDV looks fine. To each his own. Most people seem to agree with me.
I know for a fact that some early Cadillac units were from Bosch because my firm (AlliedSignal at the time) supplied the accumulators. I think it's safe to say that every major ABS supplier has supplied every major automaker at one time or another. There are two primary criteria to a business award: price and how your last product performed (i.e., warranty claims).
ABS systems can be either replenishment-type systems or pump back systems. In replenishment type systems, the pedal is isolated so you don't feel anything during an ABS stop. Almost all systems these days are pump back which gives the driver tactile feedback (through the pedal) that he is in an ABS stop. Pump back systems are also cheaper.
No beefs about the Intrigue ABS system, however the rotors are another story.. The rotor has been a very painful and time consuming puzzle..Don't really care to expand upon it because it seems to be incurable..
The early warping of these items stems from design, process, and overall cheapness..Since 90% of my business driving is interstate at speed, normal 50k turning of fronts and 90k rehone of fronts has been the past practice..The 98 Intrigue rears were replaced at 3k and fronts were turned at 20k..The 99 fronts were turned twice by 32k and the rears were replaced at 20k and turned at 32K..
Part of the problem is overtorquing of the lug nuts.
I haven't spent any time looking for an aftermarket replacement for I will get another cut out of the front and the next owner can fight the problem..
I saw a TrailBlazer LTZ at a car show this w/e, it was just over the 34k mark. Wow seems very pricey, plus it is in MDX range [big difference being towing capacity. I really like the looks, except for the dang side badging on the door-trim thing. Why is it that some many manufactures, feel the need to plaster the vehicle names on all 4 sides.
9899Olds ::: Burn-outs. After playing for some 12-13 years, and very regularly the last 8 years I now understand why the pros need to take several weeks off , to rest & re-charge their batteries.
dindak ::: I simply did not want to re-open any old wounds with you or anyone else. However, even if one is/or has been a die-hard GM fan [which I was], it is getting very hard to want to stick by GM side, when there are some many other good choices available.
We all know you are a Honda man who wishes he still had an Intrigue. It's obvious since you are still kicking around here more than a year after your car is gone.
As for the Trailblazer logo on the side, I don't know why you think it's all that big. I've seen lots worse on the roads. FYI, MDX is not a a real SUV.
We rented an Envoy and test drove the Trailblazer and Bravada during the same rental period (back to back actually. Dealer had both). The Envoy looks and feels the most upscale, even more so than the Bravada, IMO. And that was with the 4WD SLE model. If the looks of the Trailblazer look to "truck-ish" (my wife thinks so), I recommend giving the Envoy a look see. Much cleaner lines, no body cladding or plastic and it's a REAL SUV. The latest Motor Trend speaks well of it overall.
dindak ::: I never claimed that the MDX was a true SUV. It really fits in that new niche cross-over market. That was part of my point being that TB/Envoy had higher towing rates etc. But unless you are going towing things, $34k jumps you into the Luxury level of SUV type vehicles.
Do you think that Saturn Vue is going to be, something other than a hi-bred SUV??
FYI: again the CL is my first Honda product that I have ever owned. And I am bias towards Toyota & Nissan products as well as Honda.
I took up golf when I was 55; and it has been time consuming. I was involved in lots of other activities or hobbies such as boating and the buying/selling of boats up to 36'.I went through the Cigarettes, Donzis, and Magnums, the old hot boats as well as the Sea Rays, Formulas, and Chris Crafts.. The last boat I owned was a new 86 30' Sea Ray which like many found a new owner without ever touching the water. I had dealer connection who if they were heavy in inventory or just wanted to move a new boat or a great tradein I was called.. I bought sight unseen based on past experience with this well established/old line dealer..
It was profitable and it paid for the boating habit; but boating has it's ups and downs just like cars..If I could buy right then it wasn't bought..I didn't like to own boats through the winter for it is expensive..
I wish I could discuss foreign cars but it is not my bag with the Pacific Rim bunch..The Euro cars are getting too pricey and the dealers attitudes of the past..However the Euros do not dump cars over here as do the other side.. They tend to create a high prices and stick with them..They are not into selling tin boxes..
The Audi, Mercedes, BMW and Volks run a tight ship and do alot of niche market cars..volvo, saab and Jag are too involved with the Big 2 to be worth any consideration..
MDX is a minivan that looks like and SUV. Same goes for the Rendezvous. Not sure what kind of frame the Vue is built on.
FYI..Here in Canada an MDX starts at C$47K. A 4x4 Trailblazer starts at C$38K. Acura will go for list, Trailblazer will shed about 10%. Don't see how that's all that close even if you added options.
FYI also, Nissan quality is about the same as GM. If quality is your main criteria for loving cars, then Nissan should be off your list.
My statement of; "if I could buy it right,then it wasn't bought",,stupid remark w/o checking..This happens after a few hours of tax review, and the worst event is not checking what one posts!!!
dindak ::: (sorry in advance, for the long winded comparison/view-point)
I guess it just depends on how one want to compare the numbers & packages. Because if you look at Edmunds base TB 2wd you are only looking at $19.7 [US] and an MDX base $34.8, so there is 15k difference in US dollars. But I don't think that is not a very good comparison, except for a rare-few who might want a stripped bare bones TB. (that would almost be like buying a cloth seated Lexus, almost impossible to re-sale).
Now if you take a fully loaded TB which is $34k, and the Touring [the best] version of the MDX [no navi.] 37.5k you have only a 3.5k difference. But note that does NOT include TB upgrades of BOSE-stereo/CD & sunroof, that's another $1600 [now your are into the 35-36k range]. Plus the TB does not even offer heated seats, 3rd row "magic" seating, VSC, 5-speed auto, memory-seats, navigation-systems.
I have a feeling that many people would find the either MDX models do compare very well against the TB LTZ. But would merely assume that an Acura would be out of their price range. For those who do their homework, they may be very surprise when comparing a lot of vehicles. Granted you have the street price, the MDX is NOT being discounted and I'm not sure what kind of discounts if any can be had on a new TB [can't say for sure if 10% is possible or not].
As always it just boils down to how person look at things & what is important; Price/Features/Name-Brand/Utilities/Reliability - - - some of, or ALL the above.
Only problem with your arguments is that the REAL price of the Trailblazer will be much less than the list . The list price of an MDX will be the actual price but you will probably get some free Honda attitude with that. Further, the vast majority of people buying Trailblazers don't buy top of the line so the cross shopping is minimized to very few individuals. I know everything Honda is better to you so I will end with.. Honda rules!
I understand that Acura MDX's are leaving showrooms with prices above MSRP....is this true?
Being the case with recent practices of price gouging made by Honda (Oddessey, S2000 come to mind) then a $34K MDX could actually be a $36K + vehicle much more expensive than a comparable Trailblazer, Envoy or Bravada SUV.
Have a supplier in Canada who bought one for his wife and he did pay extra for the privilege..He also has a couple of Blazers in the business. I expressed my concern since he is doing GM work for my outfit..I don't like to see executive vehicles displayed for my customer to see that aren't of the Big 3 birthmark..
teo::::::on the rocks w/twist..You have got to get a job and give up on the Impala..There is no free lunch coming!!!!At the price range you are in; things can get a little tight..The dreamers on the Impala forum are having aspirations of RWD V-8s in 05..
CTS gets a V-6 of 3.2 liter cranking out 210 horses for 37k.
Got a big kick out of the rear clear plastic lens which is now not resistant to scratching!!! It's an exterior disaster; a piece at a time..
I have driven several(2 LTs and an LS) and well as a Bravada and lets put it this way, they changed by thining of SUVs. In a nutshell, I want one. I don't think the Trailblazer will really be compared with car based SUVs like the MDX and vice versa. What the Trailblazer competes with is the Grand Cherokee, Durango, Explorer/Mountaineer, and to some degree the Toyo Seqouia. But if you were to compare an MDX with one of those, compare a Bravada and an upline Envoy and I think they would compare very well. That straight six engine is absolutely wonderful. Don't get me wrong, I like my Intrigue alot, but Trailblazer, Envoy, and Bravada make a nice argument for an SUV. I haven't driven a Rendezvous yet. The styling inside and out is pretty good, but from what I've read, it could use a more powerful engine.
I really can't consider a Saab as a realistic choice for a place to drop my GM Card dollars. They are quirky cars, with poor dealer support here locally, and have the rep of being expensive to fix. Having had some experience with Volvos in the past I think I'll pass on Swedish steel.
I hate to say it, but despite any promises of parts and service availability, I would never buy a new Olds now. I wouldn't wan't to spend big $ on an orphan, regardless of how good the car may be. I suspect this will become an increasing problem for Olds in the months ahead.
The Rendevous is less appealing the more I see of it. It looks a little porky to me, certainly an improvement on the Aztek, but rather pudgy and not particularly attractive to my eye. I do like the Envoy, but I cannot understand the SUV craze and cannot see myself spending $40K for the privilege of sitting up high. It is perhaps the most attractive offering in GM's lineup though.
As for the discussion of the Acura CL Type S I have no idea what they actually sell for. The point was that the sight of the car in that gold paint with the polished wheels was a visual grabber of the kind GM used to specialize in. It made you say, "what a great-looking car!" at first sight. Sadly, GM has no such designs these days, save perhaps the Corvette.
9899olds, LOL on the comment of answering to the emperor. I did own a Toyota (a new MR2) in '86 and know that they are not the paragons of perfection some make them out to be. Still, it was a nice little car until it got out of warranty and started to rust and blow head gaskets...
My Intrigue has 25K miles and I can feel the pedal pulsation of rotors beginning to warp but it's not objectionable yet. I hope it gets really bad just before the warranty expires.
Brake warranty is #1 or #2 at most of OEMs. Rotor problems are a combination of the push for lighter weight and lower cost and are aggravated by unevenly or over-torqued lug nuts. Many people never experience a problem until they get their first tire rotation and the shop doesn't hand torque or use torque sticks. The smaller the rotor, the more susceptible it's going to be.
We machine our rotors to .001" or less thickness variation and the OEMs want it better than that and oh, by the way, they need a 5% price reduction next year too! It's not much fun being a supplier these days.
Cars stop production all the time. I think your belief in Intrigue becoming an orphan is totally out there. Parts will probably be available for 15+ years. After that the wreckers will always have stuff if the car makes it that far. Intrigue also shares a good number of parts with it's Pontiac/Buick cousins and they will still be around. We never had problems finding parts for our old 84 Fiero and there were probably less than half as many ever made. Your reasons for not buying Oldsmobile must be something you aren't telling us cause your argument is groundless.
Saabs are a bit quirky, but I like them a lot. Always have.
teo ::: I know there have been a lot of cases where the dealers have been adding on options galore [gouging the option prices to boot] to the MDX and forcing people to pay those prices. I personally would never buy/deal with such dealers. My local Honda dealer sales their S2000 at MSRP and never more than that, my Acura dealer is the same however you still have to deal with the waiting list/period.
ab348 ::: dindak is correct, new Intrigue parts will be available for a long enough period. Heck I've gotten good parts from the junk yard on 30 year old vehicles. The real question is, who will you trust to do your service work, and will you have "more" than your share of shop visits on the Intrigue?
It not like Olds is discontinuing a model, GM is discontinuing Olds. So this is where one starts to lack that "warm fuzzy comfort zone", it is uncharted territory for everyone. What sort of problems does the future hold for the unwanted division?? Only time will tell.
I understand that learning golf at a later age is a little more difficult, best to learn properly as an open-minded child [we can't all be that lucky]. I started at 30, once I got the time and could afford it [and it has been a love / hate kind of thing]. I now play to a single digit handicap [took me 10-years to get there], but here lately have been fight a nasty case of the hooks, along with some elbow pains.
I've have an uncle to gave the game up after 20 years of being frustrated [and just a few years after he retired & lives on a golf course]. And now he can't figure out where he managed to get the 4-6 hours to play all the time. He does not miss the game, guess he had his fill.
The latest statistic states that golfing growth is very flat. You have about 3 million people taking up the game, and 3 million quitting annually. Golf as you know, is not a very easy game to learn.
Looks like they went for the brushed aluminum look. Has the two tone leather as previously reported but I don't see other changes like chrome surrounded speedo/tach and door release as earlier mentioned by harlanc.
The dealer I bought my car at and the dealer I service my car at will both do a great job in the future. Living in Canada, the dealer network of Chevrolet Oldsmobile dealers is very structured and there is zero to worry about. I realize in the U.S. stand alone Olds dealers may be gone, but that won't be the case here.
vcjumper : That new interior looks good. Should have added that option a few years ago.
The reason has little to do with parts and service, although the 3.5 motor will be challenging some years in the future since relatively few were made. It is all to do with what I expect will be a huge depreciation hit as a result of Olds being killed off completely. Unless GM starts up with some huge incentives, which I see no sign of here in Canada, I don't think the purchase of a new one can be justified. OTOH a good used one might be a bargain, but they are hard to find.
not very attractive, IMO. The two-tone seat colors don't look good together and the brushed aluminum around the shifter looks like they painted the plastic with a silver color. I wonder if it is really metal???
Ok.. now the real reason comes out. Your fears here are a little more justified as depreciation could be a problem however, you will likely find your fears are not warranted.
Right now, figures show Intrigue to be only slightly worse than Grand Prix/Regal in terms of resale. That won't change much even when Intrigue is gone. The name is well known and it's basically just viewed as a mid-size GM car, nothing else. If you plan to sell your car with in 4 or 5 years, you will take a big hit, but it's not going to be much different unless you buy an Accord/Camry.
I don't think I like the patch work of the darker color. Should it NOT go all the way up & down the seats?? Seems to me that is how I've seen it done on other models [I could be wrong here].
Plus I never really cared for the plastic boot, around the gear shift. For that matter I don't like any type of boot, much prefer a chrome stick with either a wood or leather handle. Since I'm already on the subject, I also like a non-button shifter using a gated/notched type port.
I'd still rather drive an Olds than a Diahatsu, Fiat, Puegeot, or Sterling. GM "the entity" and it's parts suppliers are still around. But those foreign makes just vanished completely and left their owners stranded. Talk about a depreciation hit, and a service nightmare!
There were also serious prospects in the early 1990s that Nissan, Volvo, and Audi might leave.
Right now, we have a lot of makes being shipped here due to the heyday economy of the late 90's. But I wouldn't expect them all to survive another downturn.
I bought my car the month after the closure was announced. The warranty had been upped to 5/60 and an extra $1000 offered to move inventory. It was a win-win for me, since I was going to buy a car anyway.
Impala sales are up over last year. The impala is the #7 selling car in America right now. as of July 2001 sales are up 10,000 units over last year. Impala 117,670 Grand Prix 72,956 Regal 29,881 Intrigue 25,438
I'm hearing a lot about "resale" and "selling" of the Intrigue. That's the farthest thing from my mind. This, of course, is generated by personal desires.
No matter how one feels about the Intrigue, good or bad, the truth of the matter is that the Intrigue will be worth some major cash in 20+ years in the classic car arena. If Olds was still to be around, it would be just another model that was retired.
But since the entire division is going away, that makes the Intrigue a valuable vehicle. Think about it: it was only made for 5 years. Of those 5 years, only 3 1/2 of those years had the 3.5 engine. When it is discontinued, no other vehicle (except the 3.5 Aurora, which has even less market penetration than the Intrigue) will use the 3.5 engine.
That being said, I'm taking extreme care of my paint. Mechanicals are a given. I'm ordering a car cover to cover it when the snow comes and it's sitting in the parking lot at work. I'm making extra payments so that I can pay it off early, stop driving it and put it int the garage.
I have no desire to sell it in the near future or 30 years from now. But having a 2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue with 3.5L engine in excellent condition should draw some stares at the antique car shows in the future.
Good points and things I thought about. However, the one thing that you didn't mention and I think will swing the tide is that "Chevy" still exists and probably will for a long time to come. Oldsmobile will not.
I must have really gotten a bad car. My intrigue creaked so much that i spent the last 6 months of ownership with the stereo cranked. You guys must live where the roads are really smooth.
Lots of GP drivers put wider rims on their cars along with 245 tires, so I don't see how 0.5 inches would be a big deal. From what I've seen though buying rims from GM is mighty expensive, probably 50% more on average than aftermarket.
I would love the 17" Fittipaldi Force wheels on tires.com but then I don't want to spend $1800cdn on new wheels and tires right now.
I like your thinking. Unfortunately I can not afford to baby it in that way. The car is the family work horse and will be that way for the forseable future (unless we get a van/suv). I plan on keeping the car for at least 7-8 years total.
Well, the two tone seats didn't look that impressive in the pics and I prefer the woodgrain trim to the brushed aluminum anyway. Two things, I would be curious to see how the seats feel with an adjustable lumbar support as some have mentioned will be added and two, does anyone know if the 02s will get the newer RDS radio? When I was car shopping, I did test drive an Aurora 3.5 which had this radio and I liked the opertation of it better(it also includes a mid-range adjustment) and thought it looked more modern. All in all though, I have no regrets about my 2001 black stallion GLS. I hope to do a photo shoot of it soon and get some pics posted. Oh, what do you guys think of the Eagle RS-A tires? They seem okay, but I think in a year or so I'll upgrade to something that will give even better performance.
Gm has already put the Northstar in the OSV. They said it fit with minimal mods. The stumbling block is the tranny. It is not available in limited slip and is torque limited.
Had my 2000 for over a year and since day one the shifter knob has been loose. Dealer and service people insist it was normal and as per other Intrigues. Is this the case? Also- Can't find the body mod photos posted by vcjumper-
Comments
For b4z:
The Bosch plant in Charleston makes the hydraulic control unit for the anti-lock systems as well as fuel injectors. The plant in Anderson makes the ECU and electric motors.
Lee
Furthermore, the same note stated that Pontiac plans to stop making sedans! Will it try to allure buyers from GMC looking for "excitement"?
I wish it was just a nightmare... I'm afraid that soon the only remaining sedans will be imported.
:^(white6 :::
>>>"Acura TL is a so-so $35,000 car, but a great $28,000 car."
My quote: Intrigue is a so-so $28,000 car, but a great $22,000 car. <<<
Well put, my only 2 cents is that maybe the Trig price needs to be closer to the 20k mark. I would have not bought my CL in mid 30-price range.
** Attractive pricing is half the battle **
I had a bad day on the golf course yesterday,,,I think I'll layout off for a couple of weeks, and then QUIT. [hehehe]. Sometimes I just hate the heck out of this friggn game.
Are you still as high on them as you once were?
I was interested in them due to all the pre-release hoopla and all the cool stuff I got in the mail. They looked really attractive in the pictures. But then I saw a few on the road and was kind of turned off by them. Still much better than the Aztek, but they look a little bit too mini-van-ish for my taste. I think now, when my old Blazer bites the dust I might actually be looking at the Trailblazer, which had the opposite effect on me. Thought the Envoy and Bravada were much nicer looking in the photos, but in person the TB is really a good looking truck.
I sure didn't start the trend..
jgriff:::::::what is your thought??? My golf game straightened out today on the 10th hole and stayed okay to the end..Lack of focus in the game is bad..Next week I am limiting myself to three days of golf, 7 hrs of work, and submit my taxes by the 15th...
Beautiful sight:::::tire wear at 49k miles with no rotation in the last 18k miles..No cupping/flat spotting or uneven tread wear..The Intrigue suspension is pure high end cruising caliber stuff..
Live in pot hole country--called Detroit, Mich and the snow belt..
tlc125, the new Trailblazer, Envoy, and Bravada are wonderful SUVs. I was seriously looking at a Trailblazer before I got the Intrigue, but they were just a bit more than I wanted to spend. Especially to get one equipped the way I wanted. If your SUV shopping though, they are the certainly the way to go. That new I-6 engine is absolutely wonderful and for an SUV, they handle and ride very well.
tlc125 : Still like the Rendezvous a lot. Took a test drive over a month ago and was not disappointed. It's a little quirky, but it's well built and handy for a growing family. May get one, or may get an Alero depending on if we think we can live with out a truck/van for another 3 years come next June. Why spend the $$ on a truck/van if you don't need it yet. Time will tell.
9899olds : I think RDV looks fine. To each his own. Most people seem to agree with me.
ABS systems can be either replenishment-type systems or pump back systems. In replenishment type systems, the pedal is isolated so you don't feel anything during an ABS stop. Almost all systems these days are pump back which gives the driver tactile feedback (through the pedal) that he is in an ABS stop. Pump back systems are also cheaper.
The early warping of these items stems from design, process, and overall cheapness..Since 90% of my business driving is interstate at speed, normal 50k turning of fronts and 90k rehone of fronts has been the past practice..The 98 Intrigue rears were replaced at 3k and fronts were turned at 20k..The 99 fronts were turned twice by 32k and the rears were replaced at 20k and turned at 32K..
Part of the problem is overtorquing of the lug nuts.
I haven't spent any time looking for an aftermarket replacement for I will get another cut out of the front and the next owner can fight the problem..
9899Olds ::: Burn-outs. After playing for some 12-13 years, and very regularly the last 8 years I now understand why the pros need to take several weeks off , to rest & re-charge their batteries.
dindak ::: I simply did not want to re-open any old wounds with you or anyone else. However, even if one is/or has been a die-hard GM fan [which I was], it is getting very hard to want to stick by GM side, when there are some many other good choices available.
As for the Trailblazer logo on the side, I don't know why you think it's all that big. I've seen lots worse on the roads. FYI, MDX is not a a real SUV.
Do you think that Saturn Vue is going to be, something other than a hi-bred SUV??
FYI: again the CL is my first Honda product that I have ever owned. And I am bias towards Toyota & Nissan products as well as Honda.
It was profitable and it paid for the boating habit; but boating has it's ups and downs just like cars..If I could buy right then it wasn't bought..I didn't like to own boats through the winter for it is expensive..
I wish I could discuss foreign cars but it is not my bag with the Pacific Rim bunch..The Euro cars are getting too pricey and the dealers attitudes of the past..However the Euros do not dump cars over here as do the other side.. They tend to create a high prices and stick with them..They are not into selling tin boxes..
The Audi, Mercedes, BMW and Volks run a tight ship and do alot of niche market cars..volvo, saab and Jag are too involved with the Big 2 to be worth any consideration..
FYI..Here in Canada an MDX starts at C$47K. A 4x4 Trailblazer starts at C$38K. Acura will go for list, Trailblazer will shed about 10%. Don't see how that's all that close even if you added options.
FYI also, Nissan quality is about the same as GM. If quality is your main criteria for loving cars, then Nissan should be off your list.
sorry for the screw-up!!!
On martinis now--no excuse????
I guess it just depends on how one want to compare the numbers & packages. Because if you look at Edmunds base TB 2wd you are only looking at $19.7 [US] and an MDX base $34.8, so there is 15k difference in US dollars. But I don't think that is not a very good comparison, except for a rare-few who might want a stripped bare bones TB. (that would almost be like buying a cloth seated Lexus, almost impossible to re-sale).
Now if you take a fully loaded TB which is $34k, and the Touring [the best] version of the MDX [no navi.] 37.5k you have only a 3.5k difference. But note that does NOT include TB upgrades of BOSE-stereo/CD & sunroof, that's another $1600 [now your are into the 35-36k range]. Plus the TB does not even offer heated seats, 3rd row "magic" seating, VSC, 5-speed auto, memory-seats, navigation-systems.
I have a feeling that many people would find the either MDX models do compare very well against the TB LTZ. But would merely assume that an Acura would be out of their price range. For those who do their homework, they may be very surprise when comparing a lot of vehicles. Granted you have the street price, the MDX is NOT being discounted and I'm not sure what kind of discounts if any can be had on a new TB [can't say for sure if 10% is possible or not].
As always it just boils down to how person look at things & what is important; Price/Features/Name-Brand/Utilities/Reliability - - - some of, or ALL the above.
Being the case with recent practices of price gouging made by Honda (Oddessey, S2000 come to mind) then a $34K MDX could actually be a $36K + vehicle much more expensive than a comparable Trailblazer, Envoy or Bravada SUV.
Perhaps you can clarify.
teo::::::on the rocks w/twist..You have got to get a job and give up on the Impala..There is no free lunch coming!!!!At the price range you are in; things can get a little tight..The dreamers on the Impala forum are having aspirations of RWD V-8s in 05..
CTS gets a V-6 of 3.2 liter cranking out 210 horses for 37k.
Got a big kick out of the rear clear plastic lens which is now not resistant to scratching!!! It's an exterior disaster; a piece at a time..
I hate to say it, but despite any promises of parts and service availability, I would never buy a new Olds now. I wouldn't wan't to spend big $ on an orphan, regardless of how good the car may be. I suspect this will become an increasing problem for Olds in the months ahead.
The Rendevous is less appealing the more I see of it. It looks a little porky to me, certainly an improvement on the Aztek, but rather pudgy and not particularly attractive to my eye. I do like the Envoy, but I cannot understand the SUV craze and cannot see myself spending $40K for the privilege of sitting up high. It is perhaps the most attractive offering in GM's lineup though.
As for the discussion of the Acura CL Type S I have no idea what they actually sell for. The point was that the sight of the car in that gold paint with the polished wheels was a visual grabber of the kind GM used to specialize in. It made you say, "what a great-looking car!" at first sight. Sadly, GM has no such designs these days, save perhaps the Corvette.
9899olds, LOL on the comment of answering to the emperor. I did own a Toyota (a new MR2) in '86 and know that they are not the paragons of perfection some make them out to be. Still, it was a nice little car until it got out of warranty and started to rust and blow head gaskets...
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Brake warranty is #1 or #2 at most of OEMs. Rotor problems are a combination of the push for lighter weight and lower cost and are aggravated by unevenly or over-torqued lug nuts. Many people never experience a problem until they get their first tire rotation and the shop doesn't hand torque or use torque sticks. The smaller the rotor, the more susceptible it's going to be.
We machine our rotors to .001" or less thickness variation and the OEMs want it better than that and oh, by the way, they need a 5% price reduction next year too! It's not much fun being a supplier these days.
Saabs are a bit quirky, but I like them a lot. Always have.
ab348 ::: dindak is correct, new Intrigue parts will be available for a long enough period. Heck I've gotten good parts from the junk yard on 30 year old vehicles. The real question is, who will you trust to do your service work, and will you have "more" than your share of shop visits on the Intrigue?
It not like Olds is discontinuing a model, GM is discontinuing Olds. So this is where one starts to lack that "warm fuzzy comfort zone", it is uncharted territory for everyone. What sort of problems does the future hold for the unwanted division?? Only time will tell.
I understand that learning golf at a later age is a little more difficult, best to learn properly as an open-minded child [we can't all be that lucky]. I started at 30, once I got the time and could afford it [and it has been a love / hate kind of thing]. I now play to a single digit handicap [took me 10-years to get there], but here lately have been fight a nasty case of the hooks, along with some elbow pains.
I've have an uncle to gave the game up after 20 years of being frustrated [and just a few years after he retired & lives on a golf course]. And now he can't figure out where he managed to get the 4-6 hours to play all the time. He does not miss the game, guess he had his fill.
The latest statistic states that golfing growth is very flat. You have about 3 million people taking up the game, and 3 million quitting annually. Golf as you know, is not a very easy game to learn.
Wieck Public Images - 2002 Intrigue
vcjumper : That new interior looks good. Should have added that option a few years ago.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Right now, figures show Intrigue to be only slightly worse than Grand Prix/Regal in terms of resale. That won't change much even when Intrigue is gone. The name is well known and it's basically just viewed as a mid-size GM car, nothing else. If you plan to sell your car with in 4 or 5 years, you will take a big hit, but it's not going to be much different unless you buy an Accord/Camry.
Plus I never really cared for the plastic boot, around the gear shift. For that matter I don't like any type of boot, much prefer a chrome stick with either a wood or leather handle. Since I'm already on the subject, I also like a non-button shifter using a gated/notched type port.
Thats just me.
I'd still rather drive an Olds than a Diahatsu, Fiat, Puegeot, or Sterling. GM "the entity" and it's parts suppliers are still around. But those foreign makes just vanished completely and left their owners stranded. Talk about a depreciation hit, and a service nightmare!
There were also serious prospects in the early 1990s that Nissan, Volvo, and Audi might leave.
Right now, we have a lot of makes being shipped here due to the heyday economy of the late 90's. But I wouldn't expect them all to survive another downturn.
I bought my car the month after the closure was announced. The warranty had been upped to 5/60 and an extra $1000 offered to move inventory. It was a win-win for me, since I was going to buy a car anyway.
as of July 2001 sales are up 10,000 units over last year.
Impala 117,670
Grand Prix 72,956
Regal 29,881
Intrigue 25,438
No matter how one feels about the Intrigue, good or bad, the truth of the matter is that the Intrigue will be worth some major cash in 20+ years in the classic car arena. If Olds was still to be around, it would be just another model that was retired.
But since the entire division is going away, that makes the Intrigue a valuable vehicle. Think about it: it was only made for 5 years. Of those 5 years, only 3 1/2 of those years had the 3.5 engine. When it is discontinued, no other vehicle (except the 3.5 Aurora, which has even less market penetration than the Intrigue) will use the 3.5 engine.
That being said, I'm taking extreme care of my paint. Mechanicals are a given. I'm ordering a car cover to cover it when the snow comes and it's sitting in the parking lot at work. I'm making extra payments so that I can pay it off early, stop driving it and put it int the garage.
I have no desire to sell it in the near future or 30 years from now. But having a 2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue with 3.5L engine in excellent condition should draw some stares at the antique car shows in the future.
I see the 94-96 Impala SS being a much more valuable and successful 'antique' car than any Intrigue in 10, 20 or 30 years.
An Intrigue in pristine condition will be an interesting, neat car, but hardly an expensive commodity in the classic car market.
You guys must live where the roads are really smooth.
I would love the 17" Fittipaldi Force wheels on tires.com but then I don't want to spend $1800cdn on new wheels and tires right now.
Or if future hot rodders will figure out how to stuff a Northstar into an Intrigue. Maybe we'll see that OSV yet!
The stumbling block is the tranny. It is not available in limited slip and is torque limited.
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_020210
Also- Can't find the body mod photos posted by vcjumper-