Oldsmobile Intrigue

ketch

Just parked at work here (a large telcom in massive trouble, for awhile thus far) behind a new 2002 camry. Rear was 'fat' as opposed to 'phat' as the kids say today, and the side/greenhouse looked much like the upcoming Caddy CTS (beltline too high, sides too flat and massive looking). The front obviously takes some of the Celica's styling, esp. the hardlites. As opposed to OUR car, parked behind, no contest on which one is "quietly stylish" as opposed to trying too hard (Camry). Hell, even Nissan gets it right with the new
Altima. Oh, and the new ES300 also has some strange styling, esp. its buick like rear.
A common thread is that both the ES and Camry have some strange angles, kinda like the similar Avalon.

Thus far, except for the new Altima, the Asian makers seem to design sedans one of two way, boring (TL, accord) or strangly (as above). To those who say styling is a low priority in this market (mid size sedans), I say bunk.

one2one

I just glad to finally see Toyota providing "real" content AND lowering the price (aboput 3% according to Auto.com). All the car mags seem to agree that the sport SE is more for show like the Solara. But I believe it is the first midsize sedan (read non-luxury) to offer a navigation system. They still have to do something about increasing power from the 3.0L. It's not that they can't; they won't because it would be stepping too close to the ES300.

I'm not overly impressed by the styling of either and think the two cars look more alike than ever before. But if they put the ES interior inside the Camry body... now you're starting to get my attention.

I'd still probably take the Intrigue. With no real suspension or powertrain improvements, the Intrigue would still be more fun to drive. The extras (i.e. nav system) get stale after about 6 months if that long.

dindak

From the pictures I've seen, the 02 Camry looks more like Taurus now. Not an attractive car in my opinion, but at least it's not as boring as it used to be. The new Altima looks way better and I'm sure it will be a better performer. I'm sure Toyota will sell lots though.

Saw a new 02 T-Bird a couple of weeks ago near my house. I think it was a Ford executive driving it as we live near Ford Canada head office. Very nice looking vehicle. Too bad it's so far out of reach in terms of affordability.

vcjumper

Well after a short night's sleep and a few kilometres of driving this morning the flasher started running normally again, so I'll have to keep a watch on things over the next few days.

My brother's father in law is stopping by my office today to pick up a PC. He drives a Z06. I'm excited to say the least!

jgriff

>>> They still have to do something about increasing power from the 3.0L. It's not that they can't; they won't because it would be stepping too close to the ES300. <<<

Plus I understand that Toyota wants to keep the emissions down to maintain a ULEV [Ultra Low Emission Vehicle] across the both the Camry engine setups [all Camrys].

But hey Honda managed to get 225hp out of 3.2 and maintain a ULEV, you'd think Toyota could fill that bill as well.

It used to be that you could not get heated seats in a Camry, because they wanted you to step-up to the ES300 or a Avalon instead.

redline65

Nobody can touch Honda with ULEV. They are the best!

Looks like sterling silver is no longer an available color on the 2002 Intrigue.

dindak

Z06?? SWEET!!

There is a red 01 rag top Vette in our visitor parking today. I have been drooling all morning.

ketch

so silver is gone, what did they replace it with?

on another topic: what about NASCAR opening up to allow
Camry/Accord/Altima into thier selection of race cars? Would this have helped Olds had Intrigue done so ( I doubt it, but I wonder...)

ketch

of course in my last post, I mean't 2002, but hey Olds may be back in 20002!

htwired

No squiggly arrows, alas no heated mirrors. No wonder my tounge stuck to the glass when I tried to lick the side view mirrors clean last winter.

dindak

Oldsmobiles were in Nascar until the early 90s when they killed the Cutlass Racing program. Perhaps that did hurt the division a bit, who knows.

Don't see Toyota/ Honda joining Nascar as they are already heavy into CART/ F1. Nissan Maxima would make a good addition to Nascar though.

one2one

http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories0827/nissan829.htm

The redesigned 2002 Altima mid-sized sedan, which goes on sale Friday, will have a starting price ranging from $16,889 to $23,689, Nissan North America Inc. announced Thursday.

Don't know about everyone else but where I come from, that's a bargain! Where else are you going to get the promised performance for that price?

Sounds like a viable replacement for the Intrigue once it get garaged. Assuming I can fit :-(

mosaix

I have the service manual on my 2001 and it IS a wealth of information. Next thing I want to buy is a GM tech II scan tool. Any ideas what these cost? I'm also wondering if with a scan tool you can program some of the features that are controlled by the BCM. Two things come to mind. The auto door locks, on the Buick Regal if you open a door while the car is in gear(i.e. dropping a passenger off) the doors automatically relock when the door is closed. On the Intrigue they do not. You must either hit the lock switch or shift into park and back into gear. That is a small but neat touch that the Regal does as well as Cadillacs and other luxury cars. The second thing concerns the headlights. On the Regal, Century, and Impala(I believe) the headlights will stay on for about 90 seconds after the car is turned off. On the Intrugue, they go off immediately. The service manual mentions a 90 second delay on the lights, but doesn't say anything about activating it so I'm wondering if you can get into the BCM with a scan tool and activate that.

b4z

A loaded V6 is about 29K.

teo

For an Altima?

Nope. I can get a nice IS300 or BMW 325 for that price.

Sorry Nissan...you priced yourselves out of the market target. Ditto Toyota with the new Camry.

b4z

Or a Acura TL/TL. Wheres jgriff? He would like to participate in this.

mosaix

Missed the VH1 special on REO, but they are one of my favorite bands. Hi infedelity was one of the first records I ever purchased. That and Foreigner's 4 and Michael Jackson's Thriller. I think I still have those LPs somewhere. I really feel bad for the kids these days because there is really very little good music coming out these days. I usually listen to either 80s rock or classic rock stations on the radio as the rest is pretty much garbage. Oh well, thanks goodness for CDs which will last alot longer than LPs.

Camry styling, MT has a review of the 02 model in their October issue and the interior styling is just plain weird. The exterior is okay and at least they were more daring than the with the previous model, but as someone else stated there are some strange lines. The nearly 5 year old Intrigue styling still looks much better.

As for the 02 Nissan Altima, it's certainly one of the better designs to come from Nissan in years and looks to offer decent performance, I don't think that will be what replaces my Intrigue down the road. I'm leaning more toward the new Cadillac CTS. From a price-value stanpoint, the new Altima does look to offer alot for the buck and maybe this will tap into Camry sales. I would say that the performance should gaurantee Nissan a winner, but as demonstrated by Olds, excellent performance and sleek styling doesn't always translate into sales. The typical sedan buying public has been dumbed down into having to have certain names and for some strange reason Camry, Accord, and Taurus seem mean something to them. It baffles me to no end, but again I'm not one who buys a car with the same logic one uses when buying a washer. I guess I'm more old school where you put BOTH hands on the wheel and really drive the car while the cell phone stays turned off and in the console. Anyway, enough of me. Hope everyone has a good weekend.

teo

Oh sure the Acura TL/CL Honda Accord clones. At that price point I certainly prefer 50/50 weight distribution and RWD, thank you very much.

dindak

bz4 : Ya.. jgriff will tell you all about Hondas and how good they are. Was reading today they have recalled the 2001 Civics for possible fuel leaks.

one2one : Prices seem higher for that 02 Altima vs 01. I guess it is a better car though. It would seem those U.S. prices would put it around $30K in Canuck bucks for a decent mid-range model. Paid just under $28K for the Intrigue.

evandro

Just try to find a $29K Lexus or BMW out there... These cars have even power windows, or other things everybody takes for granted, as an option to make them look affordable when quoting the MSRPs.

mfd37

Hi all - first post to the board although I've been lurking for months. I've been driving Olds for about 30 years now. Currently have a 90 Toronado and a 95 LSS. About time to trade in the Toro so I've been looking at the Intrigue. I've seen / driven the 2002 Intrigue and I think that picture is pretty close. They seem to have brought some of the OSV concepts into the 2002 models. I know the seats are different and they've added power lumbar support on the drivers side. I believe the ground effects have been slightly modified also, I'll check this weekend when I head back to the dealers to talk price.

white6

is pretty stark. But they do have power windows/locks/mirrors standard on 325. If you want automatic trans, power seats, cruise control or CD player, then you pay extra. The 2001 325 I spec'd stickered for $29,735; 5-speed manual, sport package, cruise, CD and not much else. I read 2002 will have cruise and CD standard; auto climate control was made standard half way through 2001 model year. BUT anti-lock brakes were standard on BMW's in the eighties... still optional on lots of Asian models as wells as domestics.
Just got back from dealer service... SES code was for crank sensor. If anyone out there has a service manual and a scanner, I would appreciate if they could scan the page that shows where the crank sensor is located and e-mail to me, or even fax it... I'll pay for the phone call, or even call me collect to fax. My e-mail is cwhitegr@theshop.net

evandro

The only way I could get to that price was by not choosing either metallic paint or leather. I'm afraid that such BMW does not exist.

Anyway, I refuse to pay more than $30K for an anemic car with just 184HP!

Be happy with your Bimmer, anyway...

beach15

As was just mentioned above, does anyone here know about the OSV Intrigue? I saw it in magazines before and loved it. Then a few days ago when I started looking at 2002 pics, they have that vehicle or one that's identical to it representing a 2002 Intrigue. Even Gmbuypower.com shows that pic on the screen when you enter in the 2002 Olds Intrigue. Will this be an option package or what? Does anyone know?

For any of you who don't know what I'm talking about, here's a link to two pics from kbb.com:

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.nc3?kbb.DE;234243&19966;car&181;Oldsmobile;2002%20Intrigue&M28M3A4

jjpowell2

Sounds like you are still getting the old parts:

LOW ALT VOLTAGE OUTPUT. PERFORMED AVR TEST, REPLACED ALTERNATOR ASSY.
#10464395 GENER REM 2.275.

We had two of these alternators installed and they didn't correct the problem. We had this alternator installed in late April and have experienced no flickering since:

#10464469 - *Gen Rem 2.275

HOWEVER.....Our 2001 Intrigue with 6600 miles died yesterday and sits in the dealer's garage for the long weekend. Ran a few errands and had hard starts then it completely stalled out while driving. Amazing the superhuman strength needed when the power steering goes out!! Seems to be a starter problem, although we'll have them check out the reported problem with the choke sensor.

jjpowell2

Did those with the choke sensor problem have the symptom that it seemed that the starter didn't disengage?

ab348

Hey, you're right, it is on the web page. Guess the clueless ones who run GM's marketing don't realize that's not a car they actually produce.

white6

I didn't buy a BMW... bought a 310-hp Firebird Formula instead. And you're right, for that price you don't get leather or metallic paint. I wanted a black/black. BMW's leatherette is better than most manufacturers real leather. The car I wanted would have had to be special ordered (which I usually do anyway). BTW, $29,735 was the sticker... I negotiated a purchase price of $28,935 ($800 discount) before giving up and buying the Formula. I may try again when it's time to replace the Intrigue.

dindak

white6 : Get lost in the crowd driving a BMW 325. They are a dime a dozen around here and blend into the highway as much as and Civic/ Cavalier. Can't imagine paying big$ to blend in. Good cars though.

mfd37 : 2002 Intrigue is the best Intrigue you will ever be able to buy. Like the Fiero, they probably finally have the car they should have had from the start and are now killing it. That said, anything mid 99 or older with the 3.5L is very good.

Got the latest Motor Trend today with the 02/03 new cars. Nice piece on the CTS with some great pictures. MT also says the sport Alero GL2 comes with the 3.4L and a 5-SPEED. Wonder if that's true? If so it must be VERY fast with 180 HP.

mfd37

Beach15, Dindak & AB348 - I've looked at the pics on the web sites and seen the 2002 Intrigues. I also saw the OSV at the auto show but that was quite a while ago. What is in the web pics that make you sure they are pics of the OSV? I must be missing some details that you are seeing. The biggest exterior difference I noticed about the OSV was that the chassis was 1.5 inches lower and the ground effects package was more Pontiac-like. (Well if you don't count the 27 layer custom paint job with the Olds logo in layer 5.) I don't think the 2002 is any lower than the 2001, but they have changed the ground effects some. The pics I see look like the GLS I hope to get early next week. There was only one option package available and that was the 1SS which includes the PCS system, rear spoiler and Bose sound system. Everything else is standard on the GLS. If you're seeing something else I should be looking for, I'd really appreciate your letting me know before I sign some papers next week.

jjpowell2

Didn't have time to post earlier, but we have our Intrigue back after spending one night at the dealer. It may have been the fact that I had just used a high pressure hose to clean the engine and some of the electronics got wet. The dealer got 4 different trouble codes when putting it on the machine, but after a few hours they disappeared. Had the oil changed and tires rotated for $35. Guess you can't clean these electronic marvels like the old ones!

b4z

There were two different OSV intrigues. One had a supercharged 3.5L and the other had a Caddy Northstar in it.

jgriff

B4z ::: I've already put my .02 cents in over on both the Camry & Altima boards. I can't believe +32k for a fully loaded Camry, that's a 12k price range from the base to the top-of-the-line. And yes you can get a TL/CL for less than 30k, with memory seats, loaner cars, and 48/50k warranty etc. etc.

I guess that means that Oldsmobile was ahead of it time when it comes to the pricing game.

Speaking of which I check out my old Oldsmobile dealership the other night [after closing] and they had plenty vehicles to chose from. Intrigues GX for 19.9k, GL 26k, GLS for 29.5k.

They have slipped into that nasty dealer habit of tacking extras on; $200 pin-stripes, $350 tinting, and worse of all the $175 chrome stick-on door pillars. There are no bargains here without some real serious negotiating skills.
I really hate that add-on game, mark it up some more before we give the customer such a nice discount.

dindak

mfd37 : I didn't say it was the OSV, other people did. It looks like it, but I'm not completely sure. I think people are saying it is because the tires are so big. Hard to believe they could be Oldsmobile stock. I wish they would make that car though.

racer_x_9

Speaking of nasty extras:

How much were the floor mats on your acura?

jgriff

racer_x_9 ::: Carpeted floor mats are & were standard when I purchased my CL. Yes back in say, 98/99 I understand they were extras [and I think they still are on Hondas]. At least they are optional for the budget minded buyer. I had all-weather mats thrown into my deal. I keep them in on top of originals year-round, and they are nice they keep originals looking brand new. Did the same with my Intrigue, when I sold it the all 4-mats LOOKED brand new.

Pin-stripping, undercoating, tinting, clear-coat protection [you name it] are much harder items to remove from a car. My point being is that if you want those items done to your baby, it should be your choice after the deal is done and not before. You can always get it done at a 3rd party location for about half the price, as oppose to the dealer sticking it to you [twice].

Also I much prefer DIO [Dealer Installed Options] when ever possible. For example spoilers, some people love them, some hate them [depends on the car]. But a factory install spoiler leaves the buyer with no choice, you are stuck with it [Intrigue/Camry/Max to name a few]. However with Honda/Acura this is a DIO, thus giving the buyer a little freedom to pick a certain equip model, and decide whether or not a spoiler fits the bill.

dindak

Honda rules!

mosaix

Whats up with the "Honda Rules"? I thought you were an Intrigue guy. Hondas are okay and the current generation Accord is a decent sedan(I'd pick it over the Camry anyday). My problem with Hondas is what people do to them afterwards. I don't see it on as many current Accords, but on previous generation Accords and especially Civics I see the full "rice treatment." Silly stuff like the foil trim on the taillight lense, the coffee can sized exhaust, lowering the car, and the silly decals. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about. IMO, it's just trult tacky and I'm like whats the point? Anyway, thats probably my biggest dislike about Hondas.

I read that in MT about the Alero being available with the V6 and 5 speed. I haven't been able to confirm this yet, but if that is so, WHY NOT ON THE INTRIGUE?? What a way for the car to go out in it's final year. That 3.5 just begs for a 5 speed. I find myself grabbing the shift lever at times wanting to row my own gears.

mosaix

How has your 90 Toronado held up? Is it the base or Trofeo model? I always liked those cars and thought they were pretty nice. I used to have an 89 Olds Touring Sedan which had the absolute best seats I've ever had in a car. The Intrigue seats are pretty good and I'm glad they are adding an adjustable lumbar for 2002, but my old T sedan not only had the six way power adjustments, but two adjustable lumbar support, adjustable side bolters, and power adjustable headrests. And power recliners. The headrest and side bolter adjustments were neat but not necessary, but I do wish the Intrigue had the power reclining seats as I don't like the manual control. Since the Touring Sedan was kind of a limited production model for Olds and had TOTALLY different seats from the regular Ninety-Eights, I always wondered if someone else produced those seats for them.

mosaix

Saw my twin last night. It was a black GLS with chrome wheels and spoiler. I met it in traffic and she was oncoming so I couldn't turn around and see if it had the PCS badge and it didn't look like it had gold trim, but everything else looked like mine. We both looked at each other as we passed and I gave her the nod of approval:)

pat

dindak did not really mean that comment, and we've had enough Honda arguments in here to last quite a while.

So let's skip that part and stick with the topic.

Also, let me remind you that using "rice" terms in reference to vehicles is offensive to a number of our members, and Town Hall requests that terminology not be included in posts.

Thanks.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

ab348

Visited the dealer lot yesterday and saw a couple of '02s. None had the new colors but it looked to me that the grey interior fabric is much, much lighter in shade than the previous (there were a few used 2000s and '01s there). Can anyone confirm? I still don't like gray interiors, but this pale version certainly looked better than the dark gray.

It made me think that Olds ought to do a commemorative edition to mark the last year. Special badges, different paint colors, something to set it apart. The comment made by someone that the '02 is probably going to be the best ever given GM's record of getting vehicles right just before discontinuing rang true with me. If they had a special "goodbye" edition, I might even buy one.

dindak

I use the term when the topic gets changed to topics unrelated to the Intrigue by certain people. It's just sarcasm. I am indeed an Intrigue man!

As for the Alero, I read the same thing though I find the V6 5-speed hard to believe. I have not been able to confirm the note in MT yet.

simmsj

Seriously thinking about buying a 1998 Intrigue GL w/leather. Has 55000 miles/one owner. Drives good. Dealer offered to sell for $ 12250. Is this a fair price?

Also wondering about Intrigues with over 50,000 miles. Problems? Please help. You guys seem to be on top of things. Thanks.

jgriff

If you'll take a moment and backup and read my post #4341 on was on topic. As I was speaking of how my Olds dealer has managed to scoop to the nasty tactic of adding on frivolous options onto their remaining models, namely the Intrigue [a practice that they did NOT use to perform]. It appears to be their way of battling the close-out discounting game.

And post #4344, I was simply responding to racer_x_9, assumption that, Acura still charges extra for the basic floor mats [not true].

Sorry if I upset you, with something that you do not care to read about. I am just expressing my thoughts on how some Olds dealers seem to be handling the close-outs or fire-sale. You seem deeply upset with the lost of Oldsmobile, and I sympathize with your positions. Hopefully in the future, you will find comfort/home with one of then fine remaining GM divisions.

A Song from the great band of Kansas; "Carry on my Wayward Son".

Peace, I mean NO harm.

dindak

I'm not getting into it with you. Your comments about the "advantages" of Honda and their spoilers were what I was referring to.

Like I said.. Honda rules!

simmsj : Careful with those 98s. Have a dealer or mechanic check the steering shaft before you buy to make sure it's been replaced.

redline65

b4z - I thought one of the OSV Intrigues had the Aurora 4.0 engine in it, not the Caddy Northstar. I'm thinking the Caddy Northstar is a 4.6 litre engine?

jgriff

I was merely using the spoilers as an example of DIO [my own experience]. And I was not trying to boost up Honda image at yours or anyone else's expense. Please get your defenses down.

I think the spoiler looks real out-of-place on the Camrys especially the new 2002 model. However being factory installed is Toyota way of forcing it onto their customers, whether they like it or not [that will be an extra 4-600 dollars, thank you very much].

Sometimes you can get a dealer to re-write a sticker and switch OEM wheels, which can be handy.

Not that is really practical or possible, but wouldn't it be nice if sunroofs were DIO ?? Not enough headroom, then remove the sunroof, and save a thousand bucks.

focus

anyone seen the new indigo blue and teal colors yet? It seems they are replacing bright silver with sterling silver as well.

ab348

The '02 I saw on Sunday was indeed silver. It looked like the same as last year's Sterling silver. I think that was the name on the sticker, but I am not 100% sure.

There was a Cavalier parked next to it and that sticker definitely said it was painted Indigo Blue. If that is the same color as used on the '02 Intrigue, I can tell you it is a brighter shade of dark blue than last year's Midnight Blue. Still a nice color. It seemed to react a little more to changes in the angle of light hitting it than last year's Midnight, so it looks a little more vibrant on the car as the curves in the sheetmetal give it some highlights.

No sign yet of Tropic Teal.