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Comments
Mud.
Moreover, I am sure that Pohanka's franchise agreement requires them to do their best to sell Honda products. So if you think there are ethics problems on my side, you should recognize that there are some clear ethics issues on the dealer side as well. I am shopping for a Honda product, and I haven't decided whether it's going to work for us. Why is it you feel that this salesperson shouldn't have serviced us? Because he (and we) knew his dealership couldn't give us the best price? You're basically saying that it's ok that the salesman is motivated PURELY by his self-interest. That's not right in my book -- he's been paid by Honda to sell Honda products. His salary and HIS business ethics should keep him from thinking about his pocketbook all the time. If you think I should be more concerned with the Honda employee's pocketbook than my own, your opinion of business ethics is simply more generous toward the salesperson. I'm simply not that magnanimous.
Given that we are STILL deciding between the Sienna and the Odyssey, as a HONDA employee, that salesperson should have been doing his best to ensure we ended up in his company's product. A good salesperson should be doing whatever he or she can do to sell their product. Commission should hardly be the only motivating factor. A good customer is going to reward the salesperson who gives the best customer service AND who gives the best price. Pohanka Honda gave us neither, and went a long want toward souring me toward Honda in general. Did you miss the part where I said we're now seriously considering the Sienna when we really preferred the Odyssey -- I HAVE TO KNOW WHETHER THAT CAR WILL FIT UP MY DRIVEWAY, and from my point of view, Honda is not putting me in a position where I can get that done.
Your personal insults do nothing to resolve my dilemma -- do you happen to have the information regarding the clearance difference between the Touring Ody and the EX-L?
We recently purchased an Odyssey from Lehigh Valley Honda (60 miles north of Philly) because the northern VA dealers wouldn't budge on price. One northern VA dealer even insisted on the typical add on paraphernalia. We received a similar deal as the post in 10154. It was actually an enjoyable experience working with the sales people and the sales manager from Lehigh Valley Honda.
Check the clearances:
The two points that would hit the ground would be either the front or rear overhang since you indicated your driveway is steep. If you had indicated your driveway has a large hump then the undercarriage would be susceptible to hitting the high spot.
Take a tape measure and measure the height of the front and rear overhangs from the street on your sister's Odyssey. Then take the same measurements on on EX model on a dealer's lot. Make sure the tires are properly inflated on both vehicles. Then cut 2 pieces of foam that are the same thickness as the difference in heights between the 2 vehicles. One will be the thickness for the rear overhang and the other the thickness of the front overhang. My guess is each piece of foam should be about 3/4".
Tape these foam pieces on the low point of each overhang on the Touring model. The bottom of the foam now represents the low points for the EX model. Drive up and down the incline and see if the foam scrapes. If the foam does touch the ground then even the Touring with 17.5" wheels could be susceptible to scraping based on:
- how many passengers are in the van
- how much other weight is in the van
- if the tires are under inflated
- the speed at which the incline is encountered
- the angle at which the vehicle approaches the incline.
Use of a demo and a sales person's time:
Not sure if it works this way at all Honda dealers but at some dealers (LV Honda included) Honda owns the demonstrator and not the dealer. However if I had no intention of buying a vehicle from a dealer, for whatever reason and that includes if I knew they won't compete on price, I wouldn't consume any time from their sales staff nor would I ask to use the demo. My belief is it's not the sales person making the decision to not compete on price so let the sales staff spend their time on prospective leads to earn their income. They also deserve to have the full use of the demo in this process.
Good luck with your shopping and with your decision.
Vince
So, that salesperson basically is going to spend 45 minutes demonstrating a car that he/she KNOWS the customer isn't going to buy? Maybe a sale will be missed during that 45 minutes.
At least her husband was honest and upfront. Most people wouldn't have been.
We all get our time wasted. It's a part of the job and I accept that. Still, it's frustrating!
BTW, we have a lot of STEEP driveways around here and I haven't heard of any clearance problems. I did sell one to a guy with waterfront property who has a VERY steep driveway. He put a hitch on the back and that would scrape a bit until he learned to go in at an angle...no more problems.
$25,627.03 asking price ($100 Over Invoice)
OTD is $27,981.43
I got it in writing and scanned it to email attachment then submitted it to other dealers to see if they are willing to beat this price..waiting to hear back
Thanks
Would appreciate any input.
I can email the print out they gave me if need be. E-mail me for request lil_ol_brenn@yahoo.com.
The dealership was stern on sticking to the price of $26510 for the EX style until I brought up this little bit of info (below) o them letting them know that if they brought it close to invoice they are still making a profit. They could not argue the point ...Honda dealers get a 3% holdback thewy offered to sell at $25,627.03 w/o TTL. True dealer invoice price for my zip code should be $25,012 but I thought this was a fair deal and didnt push to much further.
Holdback is kept secret from the buyer. It’s hidden in the vehicle’s invoice price and not listed on the window sticker. In most cases, you’re best bet is to avoid discussing holdback money until the dealer delivers a sermon about selling at invoice cost and not making any money. If the dealer must special-order the vehicle, or you know it’s hot off the assembly line, use the holdback money to your advantage
I would also recommend Moses Lake Honda's internet dept as well and would have bought there but needed the van sooner.
You will love the van...
Holdback is NOT profit that falls to the bottom line.
There is a seperate discussion on holdback in Smart Shoppers that you should read. Holdback isn't a "secret" either. This gets brought up in these forums every day. holdback ***helps*** pay for flooring and advertising.
Seriously, if someone wants to talk about holdback, we should talk about this little thing called OVERHEAD. People have no idea of the tremendous costs involved just to open the doors every day. B&O taxes are a killer too.
If that dealer lowered his price in order to make a sale, it wasn't because you brought up holdback. It's the market that determines pricing.
Purchased my vehicle today elsewhere and love it was told by another dealer they used an old invoice pricing that the invoice dropped $600 so went with them
thanks for the input buyersadvice.com seems to think its a "SECRET"
Sorry - I think I shared in an earlier post. I bought an EXL WITH NAV & RES for $31,964 ($600 over invoice) + $55 doc fee. This worked out to about $1,200 below TMV and $1,300 below my next best offer in Chicagoland.
Loving the van so far, but having a small problem with the power sliding door. Off to another forum to see what I can learn about that...
1.) I just bought an EXL RES NAV
2.) I have a steep driveway
3.) The dealer that I bought from was not the closest dealer.
Basically, on a Saturday I did the whole email bit. Got a great price from a dealer about 20 miles away. Really wanted to buy from the dealer 5 miles away, and gave them every opportunity (via phone and email) to win my business (they already have my service business on my '02 Accord).
On Monday, I was supposed to go buy the car, but I didn't want to complete the transaction without driving the car up my driveway. I went to the nearby dealer and asked them for a test drive. Call me a sinner, but I didn't mention the other dealer. I just told him that getting the car up my driveway without scraping was a show-stopper (the Accord scrapes, but we bought the car before the house - what can you do?).
Anyway, the Odyssey didn't scrape, but the front end came REALLY close when I backed straight out. The thing is - you never really back straight out. If I turn the wheel near the bottom of our driveway, the clearance is fine.
Anyway, I promptly drove to the dealer 20 miles away and took delivery. I felt a tiny bit bad, but that's all. Bottom line is you need to take care of #1. I've had plenty of dealers waste my time (which, I'll humbly say is more valuable - at least to me - than theirs is). Besides, how many people test drive a car that are just shopping, aren't serious, etc.? I mean, the ratio of test drives to sold cars isn't supposed to be 1:1, is it? So a salesman had to ride on a test drive that didn't result in a sale for him? Well, maybe his dealership needs to price more aggressively?
Ok, deep breath - I got a little excited there...
For Loveyalions, I can confess that I am Honda loyal. However, I did drive the Sienna as well. It was a lot more $ equipped the way we wanted (RES, NAV). It does has a higher clearance, though it also came pretty close to 'bottoming out' on our driveway.
The 2005 Sienna XLE I was quoted was 32,312 (MSRP 36,something) and I offered 30,000 just this morning they said 30,500 we haven't responded yet. They are ready to move these things off the lot with the 2006's coming in and are cutting some pretty good deals. What do you guys think about these deals?
vehicle price: $26,000
sales tax: about $2300.:
fees: $45 doc + about $200. licence/dmv
out-the-door: $28,565
Negotiation took a little back and forth. Initial offer $25,500 (about $300 below invoice) but went up to invoice. They said ok but their offer sheet had a $515 destination charge added. I said destination was included in the invoice price of $25,888, crossed it out, then wrote $26k for the vehicle price. That was accepted by the dealer.
They might have sneaked one by me. The local sales tax is 8.25% but the tax I paid was 8.75%. I didn't think to check it when I signed the sales contract. The amount looked about right to me (under 10%). I did read somewhere that CA (?) added a 0.5% tax on new vehicles but I don't know if that's true.
They offered me a 100k miles/7 yr warranty for $1400. I offfered to $700 for it but they wouldn't budge on the price. I also declined their fabric protection offer. Didn't think dealers still offered that.
I didn't have a trade in and had my own financing. It was the last EX they had on the lot. I had called 20 (!) dealers in the bay area from Santa Rosa to San Jose asking what colors they had in stock. My wife didn't want gold/beige which of course a number of dealers had. Went to a few dealers that week. Here are my quick impressions:
Walnut Creek: Earlier in the week, I offered below invoice on a light blue EX. Sale manager offered it for invoice but I politely declined (thought I could do better). I went back a couple of days later to get it but it was sold that morning for $1000 over invoice. Should have taken the invoice deal.
Dublin:Salesman told me they had a Midnight Blue Ex 'in their lot in Tracy.' They said they would have to pay someone to drive it out so they wouldn't be as willing to make a deal on it. Started to make a deal on a SageBrush that they had on the lot. The sales manager was a real jerk so I happily walked out.
San Jose: very large dealership. Had a Red, Silver, and White EX. Made an invoice offer on the Silver. Sales manager showed me a computer screen which 'calculated' the difference between my offer and invoice. It said $28,000 was $400 below invoice (their $0 profit level). I didn't want to try and figure out all the numbers on the screen so I politely declined to make a higher offer and left. Sales manager called me back later that night saying, 'I could have the silver EX.' Too bad. He missed his chance.
Redwood City: last stop on a long day but it worked out.
--Run flat PAX tires with realtime tire pressure readout
--Slightly larger/different wheels
--6 Disc CD Changer 360 watt stereo with sub
--Power Tailgate
--Fog Lights
--Programmable wipers
--Automatic Headlights
--Front and Rear Parking Sensors
--2 Driver Memory Seats
--Power Adjustable Pedals
--2nd row console vs. plus 1 seat
--Programmable Mult-Info display
--Compass
--Tri Zone Auto Climate Control
--Auto Rear View Mirror
--Regular 115Volt Plug
good deal or not? thanks
Invoice is 35138, MSRP is 39010 (before they add their *paint protection*, etc) - where should I be looking to offer? The salesman (typical, he was the Edmunds article BY THE BOOK!) says to assume the added stuff is *free* - and to take a little off MSRP, minus destination. There's a Black one listed on ebay right now for BIN of $36423 - about $1300 over invoice. IF I wanted to drive to NJ to pick it up!!
Are the touring models so *limited production* that I should expect to pay close to MSRP?
I'm in Knoxville, TN., would consider driving to Atlanta, Nashville, Carolinas, if necessary.
Thank you, Honda experts!
Thanks
good deal or not? thanks
Demand does seem to be different in Virginia -- the Odysseys are flying out of the dealerships at the higher prices. If you can afford the time and inconvenience of shopping out of market, it may pay off for you . . . .
The one dealership ONLY has the touring models (2 of them) - has Honda priced itself out of the market with the Touring models? Many people, I'm sure would go for the EX - L, R & N for several thousand $$ less.
In my view its little bit more than what i paid.
But all depends on where u r. i am in st.louis, i paid 28350 inclusive of mud guards, all season mats and cargo tray($415 package) and NO doc fee.
try IKE AUTO PARK in CARBONDALE ,IL if you r near somewhere.
They gave me a blow out deal when the demand was high.My local dealers were not buding from 28,900 with no free acessories and DOC fee of at least $70 and some even $ 200.Even chicago dealer were not interested in negotiating.though a week after i got mine, one dealer from chicago called me to find if my offer is still valid.
BTW i got my EXL on 27th june05.
Hope this helps
the Touring has a more crisp steering feel/ride quality due to the wider tires.
I test drove both before I bought my EX-L, the Touring definitely a better drivers car than the EX-L. I could'nt justify the price for my dollars.
Also, there's a Dealer Inventory Tax of $83. What is that?
Im giving up the Power Hatch for the 8 pass. EXL with RES/Nav. Toyota would have had my business, but the 1 disc CD with the Nav Option killed it for me. Im not giving up PH and a 6 disc changer on a $35K vehicle.
From what I can tell, the 8th seat has 3point seatbelts and one of the points is in the ceiling. Im guessing that would interfere with the wiring for the PH, so you cant have both.
Any more theories? I was so DISSAPPOINTED about this.
Good luck with your deal!