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Comments
chris
I have read some extensive discussion about hold back, I don't remember it is in this forum or some other ones I have read. In general, that's what covers Dealer's ads, stocking, or whatever overheads cost. In some cases, you may take that into consideration and in some cases, you may be able to get down the number a bit when bringing that up to dealer (I remember one person used this to his advantage when purchasing an 2005 Oddy earlier this year),
However, I have never seen people actually subtract hold back from the published invoice price to get the real dealer cost. While the general idea of a fair deal is $600 - $800 over invoice, taking hold back into the calculation, it will be at or below invoice and I don't think too many dealers are selling their cars at that price
Leave the hold back on side, the invoice for 2005 EX-L is $27,949 (published by KBB and Edmunds). From what I have read, a number of people said that the invoice goes up about $300 for the 2006, that's how I got the price. However, I was not certain about the exact number, but I am quite certain it's much higher than $27, 070.
You may also check message #10650, which posted some invoice info, not certain about resource, but seems to be in the right range. I checked the Consumer reports site for 2006 Honda price, but did not see anything about Oddy, maybe I was not looking at the right place.
I guess I could agree that taking into consideration holdback amount is probably what I can call aggressive buying:) I was actually almost shown the door today when used that aggressive buying technique:) But hey, they do pressure selling I will do aggressive buying.
On a serious note. Think about it. You are saying that holdback is for dealer’s ads, stocking and other overhead costs. Yes, this is the purpose of the holdback. But with car like Oddy (or similar hot cars) that practically sells by itself – holdback is simply pure profit for the dealer. This is how I see it.
But I still agree – I must be more careful when choosing when to use it and when not to use it:)
Why do you think the invoice for 2006 EX-L is 28350-28488 ? According to the consumer report the base invoice (without destination) 27,434. Now add 550 in destination charges and it comes out to 27,984. Where did you take such a high figures from? Don’t forget 3% holdback from the msrp. It is about 914. subtract this number from the above figure (27,984 – 914) and you are getting real dealer’s cost for the EX-L = 27,070
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The invoice price you saw on consumer report is for 2005, 2006 model invoice increased by $300 .
Holdback is NOT "pure profit". It helps pay for flooring and some of the advertising costs.
Cars sell for what the market dictates. What a dealer may have paid for that car has nothing to do with that.
I am little puzzled and wondering whether it really was an error or dealers talked to each other. I did mentioned to another dealer about the original quote without giving out specific dealer name.
I am in IL. So far I haven't been able get any quote on 06 EX-L below $29,000. If any of you have, I would appreciate you sharing some information.
06 Odyssey EX-L RES (includes destination charges) - $30,696
However, for an 06 Odyssey Touring, the price was $35,470.
The Touring model is selling at of just above MSRP, while the EXL RES is considerably lower than MSRP.
I am hoping for to hear back from more dealers and have already spoken to the auto buying service about their services. I'm also willing to go to LA so I've been watching to see what prices are like in So. Cal here. I'm currently inclined to give the auto buying service a try as I think they will be able to get me a better price for a relatively minor fee. Probably will make a decision in the next week or so.
Good luck!
Any help would be appreciated as I'm in a tough spot, our trade in is an SUV and you know how the values of those have gone down in the past month.
Thanks in advance.
Just go on Honda's website and find links to various dealers. Some show inventory (many with color indicated), some don't.
I got a quote from a dealer a couple of days ago for 2006 EX-L at $28,559, including destination. A few other dealers gave me quote about $1,000 more. However, yesterday he send me an email saying that he misquoted the price and the price should have been $29,599.
I am little puzzled and wondering whether it really was an error or dealers talked to each other. I did mentioned to another dealer about the original quote without giving out specific dealer name.
I am in IL. So far I haven't been able get any quote on 06 EX-L below $29,000. If any of you have, I would appreciate you sharing some information. ******************************************************************************
You just missed a great deal. Two chicago area dealers were offered $99 over dealer invoice on any 2006 Odyssey ended Sept 5th.
Looks like I'll have to go crawling back to the other dealers that couldn't beat this price and pay them to get what I want. Frustrating, I didn't expect this from an Honda dealership. Is there a phone number or something for Honda to file a complaint about the dealer?
Thanks.
I got a quote from a LA dealer (1st round). He offered $1000 discount. Another LA dealer said he will beat any quotes. I hope to get it $2500 below MSRP. By the way don't try Dublin Honda (MSRP only)
Post your question here: Honda Odyssey: Lease Questions and you'll have a better chance of getting an answer..
regards,
kyfdx
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I went there because they sent me an email saying they'll sell me any vehicle on the lot at employee pricing. When I got there the internet salesman could only offer me $500 off MSRP. He said if I was looking to purchase an Accord or something but can't sell the Odyssey for anything less than what he offered. I took that as "We have vehicles to sell at employee pricing, everything except but what YOU want to buy."
To make the long story short, I ended up talking to the general sales manager. I ended up paying $33,429.77 OTD, which comes to $30,731.82 for the Ody with destination. 0%/36 month financing for $10,000. I had lower offers for the vehicle from other dealers, but the OTD pricing was higher. I wasn't too happy about the way they got me to their dealership, with the misleading email, I should have gone to another dealership, but I was tired.
Honda of San Leandro (Internet Sales) provided me a quote on an 06 EXL with RES for $1,000 over invoice. Not bad. It's actually the same price I can get thru Costco.
I'm now in discussions with 2 auto brokers who both promise they will easily beat any best price I find on my own, including the fee for their services. Still considering....
Do you really think that dealer doesn't want to sell you a new Odyssey?
What they told you is probably true. Honda builds cars in batches of at least 30 cars. If the dealers didn't order enough of a certain model/color in that particular district, there may not be any out there.
And, white is probably the LEAST popular color on Odysseys. It's very possible the dealer ran a "locate" and there weren't any to trade for.
It's also possible there WERE some out there but that dealer doesn't trade with that dealer. I know in the case of our store there are a handful of stores we won't trade with.
No flexability on color at all? Silver maybe? Silver seems to be the most popular color and there may be some of these out there.
I did call another dealer that I have previously worked with last night. He did a locate and found 7 whites in NY (one less than an hour away) and a few others in neighboring states. I just feel that this dealer is not willing to go the extra mile to get the car that I want, especially since they are locked into a price for my trade.
Will post when I have talked to the offending dealer one last time. Thank you for the input.
The deal was good from early August to Sept 05 and only when contact with particular salesperson.
thanks
Now, onto holdback, the only point is that it has to be included, at a minimum, in appreciating the cost the dealer paid for the car. I am not talking about other indirect costs associated with running a dealership, just the cost of the car. Your utility bills, janitor services, health insurance, etc. are FIXED costs. Only the cost of the car (and salesman commission, but I don't know if that is based on profit or sale price) is variable. Fundamental economics is that you need to cover your VARIABLE costs ONLY in the short run. This is econ 101. You will go out of business if you never cover your fixed costs, but in the long run you do, because you sell a LOT of your cars for way over invoice.
So, the lesson is, it makes sense for the dealer to sell a car that makes any profit over their variable cost, assuming they are covering their fixed costs in the long run. Translation: because there are lots of under-informed people paying more than they need to for a car, dealers are able to sell to more informed people at a better price. Selling a car for a $500 profit over cost is better than not selling it at all. The exception to this is if the real alternative is selling that car for a $3000 profit. And this is what the dealer wants you to think, but only they really know if it is true. If they know they have a limited number of cars to sell, and they are likely to get much more profit selling to someone else, they will wait. Honda helps out here by limiting inventory. Only the dealer really knows, but they obviously have incentive to make you think that is the case no matter what.
And this gets to the final point regarding people's distrust of car dealers in general. The whole process sets up a very adversarial relationship. We never know if we are getting a good deal, because we don't ever really know what we could have paid for the car, or what the last guy in here paid. Its very mysterious, and while the dealer has every incentive to make it seem as though he can't go much below MSRP because the car is in such high demand (e.g. 06 Odyssey), the consumer can't know for sure, and yes, car dealers can be less than perfectly honest. Look how many people have flocked to these "employee discount deals." The WSJ published an article a couple months ago showing the people were not spending any less on their car purchases under the deal, but volume was up HUGE. Why? Because they felt like it was fair, and they didn't have to worry about getting burned. With a shirt at Macy's, we know we can take it or leave it, and that is what everyone will pay for that shirt. We also know that we can go to another department store for the same shirt, and compare price. Car shopping too often takes this out of the equation where you have 1-on-1 negotiations with a single dealership. Bring multiple dealerships into the equation by shopping around, and you not only get a better deal, but you feel better about it.
Its a shame that everyone in one profession gets lumped together as cheats. It obviously isn't true. Lawyers have the same problem. But the fact is, the dirty, lying, money-grubbing lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. Just kdding. But you know what I mean, we grow up conditioned through the bad stories getting passed around and the good ones not. I've had 75% great dealings with car dealers, whether I made the deal with them or not.
Does anyone else have any input?
Now about holdback. Yes, I already agreed that I used aggressive buying. And I don’t feel guilty about it. You don’t feel guilty about pressure or aggressive or dishonest selling, don’t you?
With the advances in the internet technology buyers are becoming more educated and less and less afraid of the car dealers. And you (I still assume you represent one of the car dealers) are more and more afraid of an educated buyer.
LX: $22,810.88
EX: $25,551.71
EXL: $27,708.43
EXL RES: $29,146.25
EXL RES NAVI: $31,123.24
TOURING: $32,920.51
TOURING RES NAVI: $34,897.51
Dealers, please correct me if these numbers are inaccurate.
I want to buy a 2006 Odyssey EX-L RES (DVD).
Help!!!
Holdback IMHO: Yes, it's the cost of doing business, and like all other costs, is increasing faster than websites like this show. Isellhondas1 (a knock-off of the original) has some good points even though we don't trust any car dealer-LOL, and no one feels a dealer is not entitled to a fair profit. Every consumer should be aware of dealer bottom line costs to acquire a vehicle (in most cases, invoice) and do their best to buy close to that price as can be negotiated. This doesn't take into account bonuses/percentages dealers may get for selling certain numbers of vehicles. Ford for instance, give dealers something like 3 percent for reaching goals, more if they exceed them. Small dealers seem to never delve into holdback, larger ones can afford to do so occasionally.
I for one would appreciate more standardized pricing for all consumer products that have a fixed cost to produce and deliver. This goes against human nature as we are all naturally pursue and even enjoy the hunt, even a good deal on a vehicle. Imagine if every product we buy had two prices, the final on the shelf cost followed by what the retailer is selling it for? This would also reveal the logistic and overhead costs. If Best Buy listed the I-pod as $164.82C/$289.99R or Macy's Polo shirt at $12.73C/$54.50R would we all be happier consumers, probably not. What we would have is awareness of how much profit the retailer gets, and as a consumer this is a my right at least for vehicles so I intend to keep using this and other sites. If we standardized pricing there'd be no more reading the Sunday paper to find the best deals, boo-hoo. To go one step too far...what if gas pumps did this too but with three prices, actual cost to produce/vendor cost to deliver at the POS/retail cost. At least we would have a better idea of who is to blame but none of that would matter if the underground tank is empty.
If dealers are unhappy with the rap they get I suggest they improve business practices/ethics or change careers; I hear Macy's and Apple are hiring--wink.
I've seen just a few of these bills and the amounts are staggering!
Has anyone else purchased through Costco? Please tell me how much you paid for your car.
I bought 06 EX/L-RES for $33,429.77 OTD from Norm Reeves of Cerritos though I'm from San Diego. Ask for quote from Rock Honda, and Norm Reeves of Temecula, they'll respond.
Good luck.
I am looking to buy a 06 Odyssey EXL RES as well. Sounds like you got a fair price. :shades:
Wanted to clarify...
The $30,400 you paid... was that truly the "Out the Door Price"?
Did you get any options if so which ones?
Did the dealer throw in any extras at no cost?
City state you purchased?
Please Advise.
Thanks!
On a side note, spoke to another dealer on the price and variation since I got my deal. My deal is $11,000 for my trade and $1000 over invoice, the best they could do now is $9,000 for my trade and $1500 under MSRP. Quite a price change in a month. Have to stick with my original deal if possible.
Thanks for all of the input.