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Isuzu Future Models
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My bottom line: This vehicle seems to be a Trooper in tall wagon clothing. To me, that's a good thing. We'll see whether other consumers agree (i.e. how well it sells).
I'm going to the Detroit auto show media night next Thursday and the black tie charity event next Friday, so I'll let you know what I think of it after having a closer look.
Some thoughts:
* The vehicle seems to borrow much of its mechanicals from the Trooper: 3.5L V6, although it's tweaked for 230hp in the Axiom, 4-speed auto trans, TOD 4WD system, frame, etc.
* I can't think of any other crossover/tall wagon/small SUVs that are really a truck at heart. Vehicles like BMW X5, Lexus RX300, Subaru Forester, Honda CR-V, etc. are all car-based and don't have the ability to do some of the things that it appears this vehicle can do (e.g. tow 4500 pounds, go off-roading, etc.). I wonder if this will turn out to be a competitive advantage or disadvantage for Isuzu.
* It's not quite as short as it looks. 67" is as tall as the current Explorer, and 5" taller than the Subaru Legacy Outback wagon.
* It will probably be pretty quick. It's 300-600 pounds lighter than the Trooper, with a slightly tweaked version of the same 3.5L motor.
* It seems to be about the same size as the Rodeo on the inside. With a bigger more powerful engine and a more flexible 4WD system, won't the Axiom horn in on the Rodeo's market share?
* 85 cubic feet of cargo room with rear seat folded is quite competitive in the midsize/compact SUV class (Explorer, 4Runner, Blazer, Pathfinder, etc.). The Trooper is at 90 cubic feet, and I don't think the others in the class are any higher than 85.
* I wonder how well-built the vehicle will be. It sounded like the Axiom will be built at the same plant as Rodeo. I guess we'll find out what makes the Trooper so well put-together: the actual parts it's made with (roughly same as Axiom) or the fact it's assembled in Japan (different).
* I think I like the looks but can't tell for sure from a few pictures.
Axiom's exterior is reminiscent of the Volvo Cross Country wagons. Also reminds me a bit of the Mitsubishi Montero Sport, with the tall short glass along the sides and the no-sides-parallel side cargo glass.
I didn't see on the site an on-sale date?
No power folding mirrors, heated optional
No heated seats.
Only a 4 way power drivers seat
No skylight.
No outside Tire...
I personally don't like the liftgate and spare tire location, but it has 3 rows of seats.
I just hope they beef up the Trooper into the Land Crusier class in it's next itteration.
-mike
The only thing is, will the Trooper finally have a V8? If it gets any bigger (which probably means heavier too), it will almost be a MUST. Where will it come from? I can't see Isuzu designing and building a V8 from scratch. The economies of scale just wouldn't be there-- too much development cost and not enough units to put the engine into. Borrowing one of the GM engines seems a likely option. Their new line of V8s seem pretty powerful, as does the 270hp 4.2L inline 6 that's coming out on the Bravada and its siblings this year. I wonder about reliability, though.
It does sound like Isuzu tried to make some improvements in features/creature comforts beyond what the Trooper offers. My wife's 98 Mitsu Galant has Homelink, and it's great (we only use it as a garage door opener). From the small interor picture, it looks like the Axiom interior is different from the Trooper's.
paisan, where did you see that Axiom will have a 3rd row seat? 182.6" length and 106.4" wheelbase are slightly smaller than Trooper, so it doesn't seem like there would be a whole lot of room for a 3rd row seat unless Isuzu made some design/engineering improvements in the interior.
The specs do not indicate a manual transmission. A manual trans-equipped Axiom would be a true sportwagon. I wonder if Isuzu will ever offer TOD or a similar system with manual transmission. I guess I'm still glad they offer a manual trans, period.
It appears that a 2WD model will be offered.
V8 SFI Gasoline
5.7 L (350.0 CID)
250 HP @ 4,200 RPM
Also in the Edmunds Future Telling section there are several future GM models, the pictures are dark but they look similar to those of the Axiom.
I've heard Isuzu is actually designing the new S-10/S-15/Hombre from the ground up and will sell it to GM, and I've also heard that Isuzu is developing a Gas V8 DOHC. So that is possible for the new Trooper.
-mike
-mike
-mike
I'm gonna check out the Car & Driver web site right now.
http://www.outdoorwire.com/ubb/Forum68/HTML/002037.html
-mike
which describes the 3rd row seat in Axiom.
I can't find any informations in other sites.
I think Axiom will be the perfect car which fits
all my needs if it has the 3rd row seat.
thanks.
-mike
-mike
One more thing - it's not coming out until April?
Thanks,
Lori
-mike
Also, I saw a concept Isuzu in Auto World Weekly today. The concept vehicle was fitted with a 3.0 liter 6 cylinder turbodiesel, which Isuzu is already putting into other vehicles in markets other than North America.
Landcruiser size with the Duramax (which is really an Isuzumax) engine and Allison 5 speed automatic. Call it a Trooper and it will Troop with the best of em, probably tow like 10,000 lbs too
-mike
I still think they should do something like that in the Limited though and keep the V6 at least on the S model. Remember, one of the most appealing things about the Trooper is that it's a large, well equipped, powerful SUV that's actually affordable!
Is the Axiom really going to be available in a month or less?
-mike
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/2001losangelesautoshow/44468/page006.html
-mike
* Interior looked nice. The controls all seemed friendly and modern but not overdone.
* Seats were a dark tan leather. I really liked the color; classy and rich-looking. Rest of the interior was a combo of dark tan and black. Overall, very pleasing to the eye.
* Extra powerpoint up front (plus the regular cigarette lighter), plus one in the cargo area.
* This unit didn't have a 3rd row seat.
* Speakers: each of the 4 doors had a high-mounted tweeter. Also, I think each door had a larger speaker mounted further down.
* Two suspension settings: Sport and Comfort
* Center console housed a CD changer. Console isn't much better than current Trooper's; not good. It's not that big, and much of the room is hogged up by the CD changer.
* Better rear cupholder design (same crappy location at back of front center console) than in Trooper
* This truck is definitely shorter than the Trooper, or at least it seems that way when you're inside.
* Rear seating has lots of room. However, the seating position is where I noticed a difference vs. Trooper. The floor seems to be higher in relation to the seat, so my legs felt like they were sitting up higher
* 235-65-17 Goodyear Integra? tires (IIRC)
* The 3.5L engine (we already knew that)
* Spare tire mounted underneath (below the cargo area, outside the vehicle)
* Moonroof didn't seem as huge as Trooper's
* Rear cargo door is a "traditional" style, one-piece, that opens upward (like the Explorer's cargo door)
* I couldn't figure out how the second row seats folded down
* Didn't really like the front-end styling but liked the rest of the exterior
Overall, I liked the Axiom. I only looked at it for about 10 minutes, so that's all I can remember. I'm going to the Black Tie Charity Preview event tonight, so I'll try to take another look at it.
The 2001 Isuzu brochure had a little blurb on the Axiom (which is a 2002 vehicle), but not a whole lot of details.
I did get some other info about the Axiom: there were free copies of Ward's Automotive January 2001 issue (The 2001 Ten Best Engines issue), so I grabbed a couple. There's a one-page article on the Axiom, with some good info. They talked with the president of American Isuzu and got some good future info on Axiom and other Isuzu products. I'll put that in a separate post...
Long live the Trooper (with some minor mods it could be a top notch vehicle)
-mike
Axiom is based on the Rodeo platform, with the Trooper drivetrain (3.5L V6 and TOD system; I'm not sure about the transmission)
Diesels will be offered on Trooper starting in 2003! Yes!!! I think the article said the 6.6L Duramax (Isuzu/GM jointly developed; 315?hp, 520 lb-ft torque), one of Wards 10 Best Engines this year, is the one.
There was also mention that GM and Isuzu plan to do more sharing of engines and other stuff. For example, there is a possibility that the new 4.2L 6 cylinder (270 hp) in the Bravada/Blazer/etc. may show up in Isuzus in the near future.
President of AIMI expects Axiom to attract a new type of buyer to Isuzu, people who aren't into off-roading and ruggedness as much as current Trooper/Rodeo/Amigo owners. To him, this is a good thing. He said Isuzu expects Axiom to cannibalize (take away) only about 20% of Rodeo sales.
Also, the article said Isuzu was showing a low-priced SUV, slightly larger than Trooper, that should start around $15,000. I don't know if that will ever happen, but that's what the article said. Yes, 15k. There was a concept-looking SUV there that I didn't look at much (it was roped off). Looked kinda like a Mercedes Benz Gelandawagen on steroids. Pretty cool-looking, but it didn't look like a production-ready unit.
It seems like the article also said Isuzu plans to enlarge the Trooper and throw in a V8, but I don't remember if that was a dream from last night's sleep or actually in the article. I'll doublecheck.
That's about all I can remember. I checked the Wards Automotive web site (www.wardsauto.com) and didn't see any links to the article. I will post more info after I have another look at the article.
What size engine do the overseas diesels get?
The new Trooper is likely to be larger Ala Land Cruiser
Especially if it is gonna have a 6.6 Turbo Diesel in it.
Can we say towing capacity out the butt!
-mike
After a second look at Axiom, I remembered that it has some sort of display screen at the top of the controls in the middle of the dash. Don't know if it's for a navigation system (doubtful), cheesy trip computer (likely), etc.
In case I didn't mention it before, the 6.6L Duramax diesel was one of Ward's 10 best engines for 2001. It develops 300 horsepower and 520 ft-lb torque.
The concept vehicle I saw that looked to me like an M-B Gelandewagen is the Isuzu GBX. It had 21" tires and apparently was styled after a stagecoach. Short overhangs front and rear, tall passenger cabin, no pillars between front and rear doors.
-mike
I have been serious Internet shopping all brands mid size SUVs and have pretty well narrowed down to Pathfinder, Highlander, Trailblazer and now Axiom. I have never paid any attention to Isuzu as a brand before. Straight stuff ladies and gents, how does Isuzu quality, performance and VALUE compare to other brands?
I don't need off road capability just moderate tow capacity and reasonable cargo capacity (we fill up our vehicle even on a 2 night fishing trip).
You may want to look @ the Trooper as well. Same drivetrain, a little larger and you could probably use the 2wd version of it for your needs. They have some nice incentives (a fully loaded 2000 Trooper goes for around $24K right now (including HUGE skylight))
Isuzu warranty is great! 10/120K, 3/50K bumper to bumper, all standard from the factory.
I had a '97 Rodeo, went 120,000 miles with only oil changes, and 2 sets of pads and 1 set of tires.
I now have a 2000 Trooper LS and love it, even after 6 months and 16K miles!
These are tough no-BS, no gadgetry boxy vehicles. They hold a ton of equipment. I travel 2 weekends a month upstate to my house in the adirondack mountains, putting on 700-1000 miles each time, carrying all kinds of luggage, people, and equipment for the house. As well I tow a 3500lb boat trailer, and I almost got into an accident once while changing lanes, cause i forgot it was there! Overall these vehicles won't let you down, so long as you don't mind not having a Toyota or Big 3 Nameplate on your vehicle.
Check out my trooper page at http://www.iace.com/ia/trooper
-mike
-mike
I saw the Axiom at the auto show, and it will have the 3.5L V6 and Torque-on-Demand full-time/automatic 4WD system from Trooper (and presumably Trooper's 4-speed automatic transmission, which is a very solid, proven GM unit). It will be built at the same Indiana plant that builds the Rodeo.
I like the Rodeo, but I don't think it represents as good a value as Trooper. Rodeo is more popular, and Isuzu has not discounted it nearly as heavily as the Trooper. A solid truck with a peppy 205hp 3.2L V6, available manual trans, truck chassis, etc. I know paisan had very good luck with his Rodeo's reliability, but overall I haven't heard great things.
It remains to be seen whether Axiom's quality/reliability will land near Trooper since Axiom has the Trooper drivetrain, or if it will fall closer to Rodeo since it's being built on the Rodeo platform at the Rodeo plant. Or it may fall somewhere in between.
Value on Axiom is also up in the air. If it doesn't sell, it will probably be discounted heavily and be an outstanding value. Even if it's popular, it may be a good value at a price between MSRP and dealer invoice.
With the 3.5L V6 and a lower total weight than Trooper, Axiom should be a pretty strong performer.
Personally, I own a '98 Trooper with 40,000 miles (bought as a corporate service vehicle with 7,000 miles). Before that, I had a '96 Trooper S that was unfortunately totaled. I love both of them.
Holden Commodore
Opels
Caddy Catera
Rodeo
BMW Z3 Roadster!
Not a bad group to be a part of.
-mike
Thanks to Mike, though, for doing a great job and also to all the other "regulars"...you know who you are!
Just a few words on Isuzu's future and pricing. If Isuzu continues to have to offer huge incentives just to sell products that we all know are worth more (the Trooper in particular) then I think it's only reasonable to expect both Isuzu and their partner GM to continue to loose money even beyond the fact that their sales have fallen somewhat. What I would like to see is for GM to quit whining and, in addition to the big push for the Axiom, get their ad geniuses going with some promotion on the TROOPER! Maybe ads kind of like the old Toyota ads where they showed satisfied owners standing with their vehicles and giving verbal endorsements. Then when (if) sales increase...CUT OUT THE INCENTIVES!. The incentives that we've all come to love on the Trooper could kill it in this market. While I am glad that I got my Trooper as cheap as I did, I certainly wouldn't mind paying closer to list next time if it's popularity increased and the resale values went up as well. I hope the Axiom IS popular enough that it will sell without the huge incentives. Remember Audi and the "unintended accelleration" debacle of the '80's. I had a friend that bought his first Audi at a huge discount. By the time he was ready for his second, the popularity had started to rise again and although he didn't get the discount he had before the resale on his first Audi had risen to the point that he still got a fair deal. Recently he just purchased his third Audi, an A6 after receiving another very fair deal. My point is, Isuzu and GM I think, could turn this whole thing around, both to their advantage and ours. Simplistic? Maybe, but definately possible!
Chances are that GM & Isuzu will start sharing more parts in an effort to cut costs, particularly on the Isuzu side. I don't know how many vehicles Isuzu sells in other markets, but I doubt the numbers are very large. It's expensive to design and manufacture vehicles when the numbers are so small.
I can live with Isuzu sharing some GM parts, but it's definitely not the best-case scenario. I wish GM would leave Isuzu alone and promote the brand based on its strengths. Owner loyalty seems to be a big one.
If/when GM starts building Troopers on GM assembly lines, that's when I'll head for the door. I have never felt GM is a maker of quality automobiles, and I see no signs that they are turning it around.
If it were up to me, they could stretch the trooper 6 inches, widen it by 2 inches, and put in an Isuzu DOHC V8, maybe around 4.5 or 5 liter. Add a 3rd row of seats, and a better center console, multireflector headlights, Oil Pressure, Amp/voltage Guages, rear mounted power port, rear defroster wire on the 30% section of the door, and a door ajar lamp. As others have noted, upgraded speakers can go on that list as well. Anything else you guys would like to see in the next itteration?
-mike