Isuzu Future Models

raydahs

I just hope they come out with a kick-[non-permissible content removed] version of the Trooper, some things on the AXIOM are encouraging others need attention. Here's a test from Motorweek.

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2030.shtml

paisan

Don't forget tonight's chat 10-11pm EST!

-mike

paisan

03/04, From what I've been told by isuzu reps:

Isuzu V8 DOHC
3 Rows std.
Longer, wider, still boxy
Axiom dash-like compnents.

-mike

nighter50

perhaps the major recall on 2002 bravada, trailblazer, and envoy will help Isuzu with the Axiom - then again maybe not. It is an unbelievable recall. I had looked at Yukon which still might be nice truck but GM seems to want to outdo ford in ineptitude...maybe just wait for the V8 Trooper:)

paisan

There's a recall on the new GMs? HAAAAAA!!!!! That cracks me up.

-mike

nighter50

the recall actually tells drives to pull over and stop driving. It would be funny if it wasnt so sad. I give credit to GM for coming out with it (unlike Ford and Mitsubishi)...but come on!

http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories/gm405.htm

raydahs

I found this on Edmunds "Future Telling"

2002 Trooper; A redesign is on the books for the Trooper, due to keep its body-on-frame Isuzu roots and some of the looks of the SUV concept car shown at the '97 Tokyo Show.
Does anyone recall what it looked like? I thought that was the Axiom?

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/futuretelling/articles/44810/page017.html

paisan

Edmunds data is a bit off. That was the Axiom.

The remake won't be til 03 or 04MY.

-mike

emiura

I've attended an automotive survey designed to get consumer feedback for various existing and future vehicles. One of the SUV was named "Future Isuzu Canyon". Actual vehicle was not there, but its exterior and interior pictures and vehicle specifications were posted. I don't know if this vehicle actually exists or not; they might have just used "Isuzu" name for survey purpose, as the vehicle shared same shape and spec as the one called "Future GMC TrailBraser EXT". However, posted spec. showed the vehicle is available with either 4.2L V6 (270 HP) and 5.3L V8 (285 HP). It is larger than Trooper and had 3rd row seating. Just wanted to share this info on this board.

paisan

That sounds in line with what Isuzu has been saying.

Although, Isuzu will be making the future Trooper in Japan.

Thanks for the info.

-mike

bluedevils

paisan, aren't you concerned by emiura's comments? GM specs with an Isuzu name makes me nervous. I hope Isuzu builds this sucker in Japan and keeps it separate from the GM SUVs. Borrowing the engine(s) would be about as much sharing as I'd like to see.

paisan

I have been confirmed from Isuzu that it will be made in Japan. If it is made in japan it won't be a clone of the GM models. I don't even think it will use the same engines (GM uses a straight 6 engine and a 5.7l engine) It would be nice to get a GM 5speed auto-trans though. I have a feeling that it just may be stuff coming out of the Edmunds "future items" area saying it will share the body as the GM mid-size. If it is a re-badge, it will be my last Isuzu. I'll have to keep my real Isuzu going.

-mike

gpm5

I wouldn't be to concerned. I don't think Isuzu would make its flagship truck a re-badged GM product. It might share some parts with GM but that's about it. GM is IMO better than FORD though. I think the FORD?Mazda tribute has had a lot of problems.

sbcooke

I looked under an Axiom today. It has TOD, but the transfer case is at least 1/2 the size of the trooper. Also the axles and differentials are much smaller too? I guess it has the same technology, but not same implementation.

paisan

Are you sure? As I've been told it is exactly the same drivetrain. Maybe because the body is lower and more surrounding of the equipment? I haven't looked under one as of yet so I couldn't tell you for sure.

-mike

sbcooke

I only spent a minute or so underneath the Axiom. But everything looked smaller.

The same drivetrain may just mean the same technology? I have been wrong before...so I have tomorrow off and will stop by and verify. I also plan on a test drive.

vivayo

The wife and I were driving along this past weekend when I realized just how much I really enjoy driving the Trooper. I told her so, and she said she feels the same way. I commented that maybe we should buy another one in a couple of years. She didn't say no, so maybe.... Of course, I couldn't get rid of my pickup and I doubt she will want to get rid of her B'ville so the two of us will wind up with 4 vehicles. Doesn't sound logical, but how much does logic really play when it comes to "The American Love Affair" (new vehicles)? Anyway, I'll be watching and waiting for any tidbits on the next Trooper. Anyone know where I can find out anything on it?
On another note, we were out walking Sunday morning thru a neighborhood we normally don't visit (part of the March of Dimes Walkathon) and I saw an Axiom parked in a driveway. Still had the temporary tags on it. I expect it's a solid vehicle, but the styling didn't do anything for me. It was my first face-to-face with one, and it was even smaller than I had expected. I guess it really does fit a niche, just not mine.
Charlie

paisan

So far Isuzu is sketchy on the details of the new trooper, here is what I got from the grilling I gave em at the philly and NY shows:

1) 3 rows of seats

2) Longer, wider, slightly curvier (not sure if that is overall or just the front)

3) Isuzu Built V8 power

4) Built in Japan

5) Model Year '03 launching next spring/summer

Those are the solid details which isn't much. Also check http://isuzu-suvs.com as we'll post up details there as well.

-mike

sbcooke

I drove one today. It has a great ride. The back seat is a little small though. It has a lot of power, but feels slower off the line than the trooper? Maybe it is the low end torque difference that makes the trooper feel quicker in the first 20 feet? Handling was excellent and I really like the drivers position, very comfortable and felt stylish. It almost felt like a coupe, maybe just compared to the trooper, but very nice.

paisan

SB, could be that your Trooper is broken in now, and the Axiom is still green? Just a thought.

-mike

beer47

I wonder how much this monster will cost? I hope it is reasonable. My 2000 S has been a real value so far. My co-worker has 196K on his trooper. I hope to match it.

paisan

Chat tonight @ 10pm here on Edmunds! Link in the Owner's Club Area.

-mike

http://isuzu-suvs.com

sdc2

All this talk about a V8 Trooper is fine, but what about a diesel? They already make them and sell them all over the world, but not here...as of this moment diesel is about $0.40/gallon cheaper around here. I would seriously consider one if they were available.

paisan

The US Gov hates Diesel engines in pass. vehicles, envirowhackos have them convinved it is bad for the environment.

I'd love to see the duramax diesel in the next trooper but I wouldn't count on it.

-mike

gpm5

Do diesel vehicles require pollution control systems and emission tests like on autos? I know on big trucks (tractor trailers and such) it is not apparently required. I don't know the details on diesel autos but some do burn really bad--on the other hand some gas autos pollute like crazy also. The bottom line is eventually we are going to have to move away from a pure petro engine. The key will be the manufacturer that produces a high horsepower engine that burns some like hydrogen from a catalyst.--just my thoughts.

drmp

The thing about diesel exhaust is that it has significantly very high nitrogen oxides and sulfur oxides and particulates that cannot be cleaned by "regular" catalytic converters and are claimed to be carcinogenic and also contributes to more ozone concentration in the lower atmosphere.

gpm5

I saw a write-up in the auto section of the paper on the a 2005 durango and another dodge truck being offered with batteries that recharge from the engine and improve fuel economy by like 3 mpg or so. They also increase horsepower by 50 or 70 depending on the engine. They indicated that the four wheel drive front wheels would run off batteries and eliminate the transfer case.

gpm5

I test drove a 2001 suburban--looking for a big SUV alternative to our FORD Windstar van. It was pouring rain and I had the auto 4WD on. It did kick in a few times without me knowing that the back wheels were actually loosing traction. Good riding truck, but after I got back in my trooper I confirmed what I felt when in the suburban. Basically I felt enclosed in there. The side pillar is too wide and was in my face and the windshield seemed small in comparison. The '99 suburban is more squared off than the 2000 or 2001. I just hope that Isuzu keeps the upright, square and open inside on the trooper for 2003, because that is a big plus--I don't care about curvy looks.

paisan

Come to the Isuzu Owner's Chat tonight, if you are an owner, or interested in buying one! 10pm-11pm EST this evening.

-mike

http://isuzu-suvs.com

gpm5

Finished a deal on a sequoia today trading our '98 Ford Windstar van for it. Couldn't wait to see the new V8 3 row seat trooper (and become a two trooper family) with the deal I got on the sequoia SR5: 1k over invoice and 11.4 trade-in on the windstar. The SR5 with 4WD auto-trac and VSC is pretty well loaded with a big moonroof, air front and rear with rear controls, wind down window in the rear, trailer hitch, CD/cassette 6 speaker system, compass/temp/trip computer, side air bags, power driver + passenger seats, roof rack, and all the trooper S trim. It rides like the trooper, nice and solid. I hope Isuzu follows the toyota lead in terms of price and trim on the 2003 trooper. The amazing thing was the salesman suggested that I take the vehicle home to show it to my wife, and she drove it back to the dealership after we looked it over well-- that was a real sell! I'll continue to be the primary driver of our '99 trooper S except on the long road trips from the northeast to the midwest etc :-)

BTW--the running boards on the SR5 would be destroyed in a real offroad scenario.

paisan

The nice thing is when the new trooper does come out, you'll be able to sell the toyota at a nice high price (Toyota has nice high re-sale) and buy the 2003 Trooper, and probably be able to cover the tax on the trooper too

-mike

gpm5

Well, its my first toyota. Its assembled in IN but mostly Japanese parts and it has the quality name and warranty. Of course a new trooper would have double that warranty. Its interesting some of the power window switches, remote mirror control, headlight controls, cruise etc seem to be shared with the troopers. I wonder if that extends to any other parts? I used to but only American, but now I am looking for reliability.

The 4WD Hi system on the 2001 sequoia, land cruiser, and new 4runner are apparently identical--3 open differentials (front, rear, and center)--and the same system is also used in the Mercedes SUV. This allows dry driving conditions but it seems to me that would result in power going to predominantly one wheel? When slip is encountered the brake counteracts that slip at one wheel sending torque to the other 3 wheels. Also has a 4WD Lo with standard 50:50 split. The VSC in combination with that open diff system supposedly works very well. I just wonder about the use of the brake on a 4WD system--although I am sure it works.

sbcooke

What is the Trooper's differential makeup? I know the reat is LSD. What is the front? Open? How about the difference between 4 HI and 4 Lo? With 4HI, the center must be open, how about 4 Lo? In 4 Lo, you get 50/50, but if it is open in the front, do you get essentially UNI-Traction (as I used to call my old pontiac wagon) with the front wheels?

gpm5

The TOD unit I believe is in place of a center differential. The Sequoia has a similar looking unit underneath but they call it a center diff.

paisan

The way that TOD works is that it is an electromagnetically controlled differential essentially. It varies the torque that goes to the rear driveshaft and front driveshafts based on slippage. When you put it in 4wd-Lo it locks that torque in and makes the rear and front driveshafts spin @ the same speed. The rear end is a limited slip differential which will shift power left and right trying to maintain both 1/2 axles spinning at the same rate. The front differential is "open" so you won't get it moving power from a slipping wheel to a non slipping wheel, essentially it will go to the one that has the least resistence.

-mike

sbcooke

is then a 50/50 locked split front to rear? So with little or no traction you will essentially get 3 wheel drive? Where 50% of drive going to 1 front and 25% to each rear, as the LSD switches back and forth?

gpm5

presumably so.

paisan

yep. essentially. w/o the rear LSD, you'd have 1 rear and one front working. This is how all SUVs/Pickups work if they don't have a front LSD and rear LSD or Locker. A lot of the Isuzu guys are buying front lockers to lock the front axle. Also some are buying the rear end diffy from the older troopers (1st gen) which are the Isuzu 10 bolt diffys to put in the front diffy. The Current gen (2nd and 3rd gen) Troopers use a 12 bolt Isuzu rear.

I like the TOD for the fact that if you are spinning both axles, it will remove power from the front axle and then re-apply it giving the front wheels a chance to grab, whereas the 4wd Lo will keep 50/50 power not allowing the front wheels to grab.

-mike

gpm5

On the sequoia in 4WD Hi mode, it apparently has one wheel drive (among the various wheels that is) until one starts to slip. That seems strange but I guess it works well.

nighter50

still finding differences between the trooper and sequoia. One thing is the Sequoia's seats. I think you got the CC with cloth like I did. The trooper seat seems to wrap a little more which i like. I had the rev limiter kick in on the Seq today while pulling out into traffic from parking lot - i went off curb (still getting used to the size!) and was just kinda coasting into traffic as the rev limiter took over. Luckily I had waited for a long break in traffic but I could see that being dangerous. I think you can turn it off in 4WD modes only. I plan on keeping the Seq for 3 years and then comparing it with the V8 trooper. Still love the trooper!

paisan

on an automatic transmission? Didn't realize that it could ever kick in...

-mike

gpm5

Yeah, it kicks in as part of the vsc system to prevent spinning out, but screws with a fast acceleration if you start fish tailing. With 4WD on, the other wheels take over and you don't get the rev limiter kicking in. The manual says to run 4WD in dry or slick conditions. I think if there is any chance of slippage, its best to keep it in 4WD. You can turn vsc off only in 4WD, also, When I test drove it I kicked it hard into traffic, turning left, the streets were dry and I did not have any effect from the rev limiter in 2WD.

Oh, BTW I read something interesting pertaining to oil consumption in the sequoia manual. It says its from oil slipping past the piston rings or valves during deceleration, due to the sucking effect. I wonder if gearing your vehicle down alot increases that. Also, it said that around town driving can make it look like you're burning no oil due to fuel and moisture not be burned out of the oil. After that if you do hgy driving, the oil looks to go down alot. This was sort of what happened to me on my trooper.

Nighter, I did get the cloth in gray. The truck is Marlin blue metallic with gray trim + bumpers. The seat seem good to me. They are wider, but thats fine with me.

paisan

That sounds about right. I should check my oil now that I did about 700 miles last weekend. I'd keep it in 4wd all the time, but that's just me.

-mike

gpm5

I'm sure that would be fine on the sequoia-someone posted that they were doing that over on the sequpoia board-I think I 'll (and suggest to my wife) that we run it similar to the trooper. On the trooper I've had it off in completely dry conditions recently (on again today and yesterday with the rain) but I kept it on all the time from Fall through the winter. You never knew when you would need it during those months. Also, the manual says to engage it once a month for at least 10 miles to keep the system lubricated.

gpm5

According to the web link that Paisan posted, Isuzu will convert all SUV production to the US factory (IN factory I presume). Could Isuzu make all their current models there? Will they still be using parts from Japan? I wonder if they will drop the trooper, make a new trooper in IN, or if they will coolaborate with GM on GM clones with the trooper label on them (not good).

paisan

They'll be making the Trooper in IN if they switch over. I doubt it will be a re-badged GM, cause GM actually re-badges the Trooper to the bow-tie in South America. My bet is that it will use japanese parts (like the rodeo and axiom) but will use the SIA plant. Hopefully it will be Japanese designed and not a clone. On the upshot, since there won't be an import tax, it will likely be cheaper than a Japanese built version. I wouldn't mind having a GM 5.7l engine in the next trooper, so long as the chassis, frame, body, and everything other than the engine and tranny are Isuzu items. Imagine a 5.7l pushing the borg-warner TOD on an Isuzu platform? That would kick some butt not to mention open up the aftermarket for the trooper something fierce.

-mike

sdc2

Does GM still make the 5.7L (old 350 ci)? I though they had new engines, a 5.3 and 6.0 or something like that for their trucks...

paisan

I thought it was still a 5.7 but you could be right.

-mike

gpm5

The new GM engine is a 325 with higher horsepower than the 350. I think they also still make the 454.

paisan

I don't think they make the 454 anymore, at least it isn't available in the Suburban/Yukon XL as was previously available.

-mike