Isuzu Future Models

sbcooke

If your not in need of 4wd you might want to consider other vehicles. I don't like mini-vans, but they have soooo much, easy access, safety, accessories, 3rd row seat, cargo room, lower price than SUV's? without 4wd something like that or a passat or Subaru wagon might be good for you. I haven't seen any actual Axiom's yet, but the 4wd system offered is righteous, at least it is on the Trooper. If the cargo space is good and Isuzu came through with safety features/good test results I think it is a sure bet. I would be wary of first year models from any manufacturer though.

raydahs

If your interested in a Axiom test, Speedvision has a show called "Sport Truck Connection" just a couple of no name guys that test SUV's and trucks. Set your VCR's for Sunday 3-25 8:30 a.m. EST 5:30 a.m. PST or Monday 3-26 6:00 p.m. EST 3:00 PST.

Also on PBS, I frequently watch a show called "Motorweek" they test everything, anyway they have the axiom scheduled for 3-31,
Speedvision is @ three weeks behind schedule so more like 4-21.

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/upcomingshows.shtml

paisan

Cool I have Speedvision!

-mike

sbcooke

What is with those guys anyway. and they need to change the music every once and a while. I have to admit though I try to watch it every week, I guess I should be asking what's with me.

baddestbob1

Thanks for input. We are just a 2some with occasional passengers so 3rd row seating isn't needed. Have to occasionally tow our boats (short distances). Car like ride important, also back room room. Otherwise I would probably get a top of line Passat or Subaru. Axiom looks good in most every aspect but I am concerned by limited dealer sources and of course first model year problems. Any comments?

paisan

I think this is going to be a winner for people who aren't into name dropping. The Isuzu products are outstanding quality, and since the axiom is really a cross between a Trooper driveline + Rodeo chassis, it really isn't a completely new truck. The IAS suspension is great on-road and will provide a great ride, the Trooper + 15hp driveline will give it outstanding acceleration and a solid ride. If I hadn't just bought a trooper I'd be looking hard at the Axioms.

-mike

baddestbob1

Well. Edmunds also posted prices this PM. Guess what, they are showing invoice costs over $1,000 less than Brand KBB. What gives?

paisan

carpoint. All the new cars that I've looked at/bought have been within $100 of the carpoint pricing. Don't forget KBB may include shipping whereas edmunds may not. There are a lot of variables that KBB, Edmunds and Carpoint don't take into account etc.

-mike

nighter50

Anyone heard of the changes to Trooper for 2002?

paisan

2002 will be the same as 2000 and 2001.
It may get the 230hp computer chip that the Axiom got in 2002.

2003 or 2004 will be the change to DOHC V8 and a host of other changes.

-mike

nighter50

thanks for the info!

sbcooke

I hope it does better than the trooper, not that it is terrible, but the overall range is limited by the tank size. The Axiom has a 19.5 gallon tank which is 3 less than the trooper. It is rated at 16 - 20 MPG. I get about 15 average with the trooper 2wd, and 12 4wd.

paisan

Dealer just called me. He said that the truck delivering his 2 new Axioms had just arrived in front of the building. He said that I could come down and test drive one tonight! Yippie.

-mike

raydahs

Hey Paisan did you drive it last night? I watched the test on Sport Truck Connection yesterday. I didn't realize that was a pre-production unit, but they seem to think Isuzu's got a winner. The more I see it the more I like it!

paisan

But I did sit in it, turn it on, etc. I watched the Sport Truck Connection yesterday before going down there. Here is my impression so far (I'll be test driving it tonight)

Dash Guages:
I like the modern look to the guages and dash layout. I don't like the orange faces at night though, but it'll grow on me. The stereo + HVAC unit is all integrated with the computer screen display. Nice touch, very european and up-scale like. Downside to the stereo, 6 or 12 disc caddy is in the center console, instead of in-dash.

Interior:
Seats are very car-like, comfy. Driver side is only 4 way power, no power pass, no heated seats. Rear is very roomy, and the rear seats can tilt backward. cargo area is huge for a car in this class and the liftgate is nice and solid.

Exterior:
No power folding mirrors
The headlights are great for visibility, door handles are elegant, getting in is very nice, due to it's lowered chassis.

Engine compartment:
Clean as all the Isuzus are. Although the 3.5l looks quite shoe-horned into the bay compared with the Trooper's 2 stiffs under the hood roominess.

Overall this truck will be a great seller, 5K towing, tons of power, and relatively cheap. Look for it to take on the Highlander, Escapes, Outbacks, and any other mid-sized suv on the market. I was quite impressed with the fit and finish. Tomorrow I'll let you know how it performs!

-mike

baddestbob1

My local dealer has 2outlets, they have received a couple in one farther away, my guy expecting shipment daily. He says he thinks they will try to get MSRP, please post local pricing quote. Incidentally, Isuzu posts heated seats as part of XS pack.
I have done a check to compare pricing Highlander/Axiom using Edmunds invoice pricing. I think KBB is off as they are showing a price that only gives the dealer 6.9% MU from cost; Edmunds gives a 10.5% on base, 11.6 on XS.
Anyway a base Axiom with no options (n0 freight added) at $23,277. To get similar Highlander: Base, $22,332,LL (Limited)package, $2,796, Mats (which includes cargo) $104, Tow prep $128, center console (apparently hard to get and not satisfactory) $145 for a total of$ 25,505. The LL pack does include fog lights and roof rack.
The XS Axiom comes in at $25,342 and adds leather seats (heated), leather on door, moon roof, fog lights. On HL adding leather and roof $812 and $652 adds$1464 for a total of$26,969.
Axiom also offers remote trunk release, electronic traction control and 6 disc CD with 8 speakers standard, HL is single CD and ? speakers standard.
Above is for 2WD, assume differences for TOD would be similar.
Colors appear bland from description, no brochure available, hope to hear comments when y'all have seen the delivered vehicles.

paisan

There is no traction control to my knowledge in any Isuzu products. There is an LSD on the 2wd models and 4wd models. I'm not sure of pricing yet but I know it won't be MSRP. It'll be less than that.

-mike

sbcooke

The guys on Sport Truck Connection averaged 18 MPG during their test. encouraging.

nighter50

you mentioned that the cargo area is huge for the class. I noticed that the cargo length listed for Axiom is actually longer than that of Trooper (with seats up - not folder). Having looked at it would this seem to be the case?

Axiom cargo length/volume - 44.3/35.2
Troop cargo length/volume - 35.4/43.7
this is Trooper with moonroof

This is how it is listed on Isuzu site. Perhaps the length/volume listed on website is backwards? Or is the Axiom longer and narrower? hmm...

paisan

It was dark... I'll have to bring my trooper down tonight and put em next to each other. They are just as deep I think, but the D-pillars on the Axiom wrap around the back and are not square opening in the rear like the trooper. I can also see the roof of the Axiom from standing behind it, so it's no where near as high or as wide as the trooper. F-R length is about the same though.

-mike

nighter50

let us know how that test drive goes!

paisan

Well folks here is my read on the Axiom...

It's gonna kick the ever living crappola out of Escape, Tribute, Highlander, Outback, Montero Sport, Exoplorer Sport. It may also dig into the Explorer and Trailblazer sales as well and possibly the MDX too.

It drives like a car, the adjustable suspension rocks. Power is well above average. The dash is funky, yet quite useful. Unfortunately you can't easily rip out the head unit and put another one in since it's all linked up to the dash display.

Sizewise, it's smaller than the rodeo. very low ceiling, and the storage in the back is curvy, not good for boxes, and such, but will be great for grocery getting, soccer mom type activities, as well as family vacations.

The ride is amazingly smooth and agile. The TOD works like the Trooper one.

When I got back in my trooper though I felt like I was on an empty football field compared to the Axiom. The upscale feel of the vehicle made me very confident that the next generation Trooper is gonna have some really high end stuff, including a GPS Navigation system built into the dash display.

Rear seats are roomy, but not quite Trooperlike, and the fronts are car seats, not captain's chairs.

Overall for about $27K they will sell quite well, hopefully they'll bring Isuzu back from their slumped sales figures of late.

Fit and finish is on par with the Troopers which I'm glad to see. The innovative dash design should definitely be carried over to the next generation Trooper, so long as they keep the nice boxy shape of the Trooper we'll be in business.

-mike

baddestbob1

Drove a base model yesterday, with roof and special launch package with tow bar. In general a B plus grade. Thought the engine a bit noisy on takeoff but maybe characteristic of this plant. Have done extensive price shopping via phone, internet and best I came up with in XS 2WD is delivered at $26,858, MSRP is $28,305 plus $545 dest: $28850 or about 2K off. For what it's worth, smaller dealers much more anxious to make a sale and if you want 2WD shop north, 4WD shop south. Obvious huh? Initial roolout on XS 2wd is all blond gray (silver), 4x4 base with above equipment are anthracite (not black, not gray, what is it?) Still have some bids to come in. Also drove Envoy (really sharp but pricey) and Pathfinder which I would grade as "A" in luxury feel and features.

drmp

First, the exterior. It is curvy than my '99 Passport, nice one-piece rear hatch, I can live with the front grille, bigger wheels with lower profile tires. Looks more modern than my Passport.

Interior. Ride height, seating position and ergonomics are carry-over of my Passport, everything felt very familiar including the lack of thigh support which I made custom cushion to support my thighs, the power seats had no height adjustment (which I believe should be available for a power operated seat). Front cabin has nice curvy arm rests but the space seemed to be smaller than the angular interior of my Passport. Relocated switches are the following; rear wiper and washer, power and winter mode. The fully automatic HVAC is excellent and the information display center is a nice touch, I believe it can be tweaked to receive navigation upgrade. Sound system are better. Rear seating positions and space seemed similar to my Passport. The rear cargo is narrower but longer.

Under the hood. Everything is arranged similar to the Passport except that the engine is a little bigger and an additional TOD computer module is located at the place where the clutch master cylinder should have been.

Ride and drive. I expected the power, esp on starts from stops to be ample but my Passport felt quicker and more rev-happy (a 2001 Rodeo with ISC that I test drove also felt quicker). It may be that the weight increase could have something to do with it or it could be that the engine has not been broken-in. The ride is nice, same as the Rodeo with ISC, soft on the bumps and dips with controled dives and sways. It has a normal and sport mode. I like the normal mode better, less road harshness but still with good dive and sway control. However, when I got back to my Passport with Monroe-matic plus shocks, I could not really tell if the ISC has a definite advantage over the Monroe shocks.

My Passport felt lighter and quicker in comparison but I never noticed from the Axiom any thumping sound when swifting / stopping / accelerating. Such is a welcome surprise and should be.

Inside "plasticy" soft rattles are about the same to my passport. I never thought that I fixed the interior rattles of my Passport to this level.

I believe it will boil down to driver's taste since the Axiom and Rodeo has price overlaps. However, the TOD may be the tie breaker for those who wants a no-brainer drivetrain (esp. female drivers).

My two cents.

paisan

Well the TOD is better on-road, cause well you can use in on-road, instead of the part-time one available on the Rodeo/passport. I find the TOD in my trooper is excellent for daily use, especially with all the sand/salt, and crappy weather here in the North East.

-mike

drmp

I meant most people now prefer automatic system. Example, manual tranny's are largely replaced with automatic, next, 4WD are largely replaced with AWD and automatic 4WD, such as the TOD. Most younger generations and women prefer convenience of operarion and doesn't want to do the shifting themselves (esp. with lots of concentration and attention envolved... according to them).

paisan

Well you see though, you are missing the whole point of AWD and Full-Time 4wd systems. Since most suvs are used on-road and in inclement weather, AWD and Full-Time 4wd systems are far more advanced and versitile than the part-time 4wd systems. They are not just for people who don't want to think, they are actually different systems. The TOD system provides power to both axles at all times, this provides increased dry traction in addition to wet traction, and off-road traction. I've test driven 5 speed Troopers and the 4speed tranny on the LS and Limited is nearly as good as the 5speed. Especially with the grade logic (which is on the Axiom as well) and the 3rd and 4th gear lock-up. Anyway, I've had my Trooper at some very high speeds (I don't suggest this at home) ~115mph with TOD engaged, and the additional traction that was provided helped. I took the same course @ ~90mph w/o the TOD engaged and in excess of ~90-95mph the non-TOD run was not nearly as stable as the TOD @ ~115.

I think that is why the Vehicross which is a performance truck, doesn't have a 2wd option. This truck has been in a lot of off-road competitions and won them even though it doesn't have the traditional part-time 4wd system.

Anyway, the TOD is a great system, once you drive a car with AWD or Full-time 4wd system, you never want to go back to a non-awd vehicle.

-mike
'00 Trooper LS
'88 Subaru XT6

drmp

Paisan, I agree with most of your statements except for one;

"The TOD system provides power to both axles at all times, this provides increased dry traction in addition to wet traction, and off-road traction."

TOD or Traction-On-Demand is a computer controlled clutch at the transfer case to feed power to the front. I happen to view this mechanism at the Patent record. The computer compares front and rear wheel speed and engages the clutches at predetermined speed difference. Clutch is also engaged at near full throttle and full throttle position and it is permanently engaged in 4-lo (low range). However, the clutch is not engaged even with the above mentioned conditions when braking for the ABS to work properly.

When driving on dry road without stomping the gas pedal, the speed difference between front and rear are not significantly different, and the TOD's clutch remains disengaged. It will remain rear-wheel-drive until you stomp the gas or one of the wheels spins on loose surface. This set-up is perfectly compatible for on-road driving compared to part-time 4WD which is not for on-road use (with exceptions of course).

Anyway, I did say which thing is superior ro which, my point is just that most people now prefer things that are easy to operate or more "user friendly".

Peace

serrano

Actually, Mike is correct, above 7 mph. Above that speed, the TOD system engages the TOD clutch to provide some torque to the front axle, wheelspin or not. Below 7 mph (without wheelspin), the TOD clutch is disengaged.

Regards,
Tom

paisan

Above 5 or 7 mph TOD engages 15% power to the front axle. Below that there is nopower to the front axles unless wheel slippage is detected.

-mike

paisan

Do you have the patent #? I'd be interested in reading the patent on the TOD and also posting a link to it on http://isuzu-suvs.com

-mike

drmp

US pat. no.: 5,609,219
Date of patent: Mar. 11, 1997
Title: ON DEMAND VEHICLE DRIVE SYSTEM

I believe Borg-warner issued licensing to Delphi automotive to supply for the computer module.

Another thing, Borg-warner also supplied for the rear drive system of the Acura MDX with similar computer logic except that instead of the clutches located at the transfer case, MDX has one clutch per drive axle at the rear and there is NO rear differential.

drmp

...I believe it will boil down to buyer's taste since the Axiom and Rodeo has price overlaps. However, the user-friendly TOD with on-road superiority over part-time 4WD system of the Rodeo/Passport will be the deciding factor to most buyers.

My 2 cents.

drmp

"Above 5 or 7 mph TOD engages 15% power to the front axle. Below that there is nopower to the front axles unless wheel slippage is detected."

Could it be the other way around? That when starting from stop, the front is partially engaged up to 7 MPH? (similar to MDX which the rear is partially enagaged on first two gears?) to aid maximum off-the-line traction? Then it is disengaged for better effeciency and on-road compatibility?

Just curious.

paisan

DRMP, the way the TOD works is no power to the front below 5mph, then it puts power to the front 15%. It's opposite the MDX system. Below 5 if it's slipping, power will go to the fronts though. I've driven 20K miles with my TOD and know when the TOD is engaged, and above 5mph it's got power to the front wheels

-mike

gpm5

Yep, that's how it works over 5 mph (i.e. 15% to the front). Under 5 or from a stop it depends on the wheel slip. I've had the fronts spinning snow out in reverse with TOD engaged when backing up a utility trailer. Also, if you accelerate hard from a stop or from any speed you can get the fronts to kick up to 50%.

paisan

If I nail it at say 50 or 60mph, I can usually get up to 40% power to the fronts during acceleration. Not to say you couldn't get 50/50 at those speeds And below 5mph, I've gotten 50/50 splits in snow and mud w/o a problem.

-mike

Karen_S

Interesting reviews! I've been curious to see what Edmund's editors have to say, but do not know when their review will be released. As soon as it is available, I'll put it in the "Additional Resources" box.

KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs

raydahs

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/previews/2001/February/200102_preview_isuzu_axiom.xml

raydahs

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/March/20010315_dai_axiom.xml

sorry for two posts.

darionlow

Howdy! I've been shopping around for awhile, and have been considering a Trooper 01 (trying to get enough money together). I was excited when I saw pics of the Axiom, and went to take a test drive. I was really disappointed when I arrived at the dealer and saw the true size of the vehicle - it's really just a high up station wagon/volvo size vehicle. While the length and interior room was nice, it's not going to be any more SUV then a Subaru Forester (which to the life of me I can't understand why these little vehicles are considered SUV's). On the plus side, the Axiom looked GREAT! The interior was really, really nice - very polished and pretty comfortable. Seemed better designed and alot more modern then the other Isuzu products. Afterwards, I went over to the Ford lot and checked out the 2002 Explorer - looks nicer on the outside but the inside is still crap. Then went to look at the 2002 GMC Envoy - took it out for a spin - and fell in love. The 270HP Inline 6 really moves, and the whole thing drives like a BMW. The interior is nothing short of gorgeous and I didn't feel a bump in the road. Unfortunately, it's a bit out of my price range (the 4X4 SLT I looked at was $34k MSRP, $38k after dealer markup - yeah right). So I guess it's back to the Trooper with it's 0.0% financing...

gtfearons

I own 99 trooper-I was thinking of purchasing the Axiom-31k with all options except leather on the seats. Not a bad ride-actually very nice ride and better pick up than my trooper. Not as much space as you have all noted. It really seems to compete with volvo x-country type vehicles. I would rather have trooper. It was a fun ride though. FYI-the new troopers fully loaded sticker at 36k here in MASS............
I did just look at new olds bravada which is olds version of new envoy and trailblazer. Very nice-very fast-much needed update on the interior as well.
ps-no third row seat in axiom-no way no how-not enough space.

paisan

I sat in one at a dealer, and the 2nd row still doesn't have nearly as much room as the trooper. Also it felt very narrow compared to the trooper and the ceiling was lower too. I guess the boxy feeling is just more comfy for me

-mike

darionlow

Well Trooper does feel more spacious, but the Envoy is not that much smaller size wise. If I had the extra $$, or they had 0.0% financing, I'd totally go for the Envoy. It felt much safer driving, and the braking distance was alot less then the Trooper. And I didn't hear much of any road noise (went as fast as 70mph).

paisan

Really? I figured the floor in the back is higher on the Envoy and it isn't as boxy, so you wouldn't have nearly as much storage. But it'll be a mute point in a year when the V8 DOHC Isuzu comes out.

-mike

darionlow

But do we believe them? :P

I was using this to compare: http://www.gmc.com/envoy/comparisons.html

It's through autosite, which is independant. It looks like th Envoy is bigger in every direction except .3 of an inch of height.

Certainly, pricewise, nothing else is close to the Trooper.

And yeah, the redesigned V8 Trooper should kick some serious booty - let's just hope that it's price doesn't skyrocket.

paisan

I didn't realize you mean that...

Yeah the durango is way longer than the Trooper, but it has less interior space You know how the big 3 like to have along hood I just went through that site, pretty cool, but it lists the Trooper with IRS which it doesn't have And they have no interior volumes listed.. nifty site none the less.

-mike

bluedevils

The 270hp inline 6 seems like a tremendous engine, but I was disappointed that these redesigned SUVs didn't grow as big as I expected vs. the previous versions. I think that a longer-wheelbase version is due out later in the year? I thought I had heard that these SUVs were to have a third-row seat. Maybe in the long wheelbase version.

Hearing that these are mid-thirties fully loaded makes me realize just how great a bargain the Trooper Limited is at $28-30k (actual selling price).

raydahs

Saw the AXIOM yesterday, typical Isuzu fit and finish, exterior looks good, interior is too confined, you feel like your in a lifted Outback. The one I saw was dark grey with butterscotch pudding colored interior! who came up with that?
Has anyone noticed the carpet, it looks like headliner material, C'mon Isuzu you can do better than that! This just makes me appreiciate my Trooper that much more, they had a silver/gold LS Trooper there, soooo much more bang for the buck! IMO

paisan

Ray, don't forget this Axiom is aimed at people buying the outbacks/volvo XCs, etc. Who want to have AWD, 17" rims, and Towing capacity. And I think it fills that niche very well. It's got way more room, power, etc. than an OB and XC, and is right in the same price range. Nothing compares to the Troopers

-mike