I really like the ML and I am waiting to test drive the '02s when they come into my local dealership in about 2 weeks. Every time I test drive it, I feel like pulling out my check book. But my nagging concern over reliability always stops me. With the rest of them: Odyssey, Sienna, Sequoia, Volvo XC I don't feel the I have to have this thing right now feeling. I'll check out the info sources you have provided. Thanks.
According to Autosite, Honda has sold 73,990 2001 Odyssey's, and Toyota has sold 52,358 Sienna's. These figures are through July 31.
Like most new car sales this year, Odyssey sales are down about 3,000 units from 2000 while the Sienna's are down about 13,000 units.
I imagine the gap between the two will widen significantly next year as Honda not only increases production, but offers a 240Hhp engine, 5-speed automatic transmission, significant suspension improvements, dual stage airbags, side airbags, stereo upgrades and optional leather.
The Odyssey will compete far more effectively with the DC Town and Country as well, offering the only factory DVD system, and the EX with the above new features, leather, 4-wheel disc brakes, and DVD will become the new luxury minivan in the market.
in terms of the ml 320 2002, they are just now rolling out of tuscaloosa: supposedly there are a thousand (!) of them in the factory grounds that have been made over the last several weeks, that they are bringing back into the factory for further mods. employees tell me they are taking their time more with this roll out, whatever that's worth in terms of quality.
in terms of safety, i went to the iihs and nhtsa websites. the odyssey has the lowest injury payout of any van, and is actually lower than the ml. (www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_wagon.htm). of course, i know this has a lot to do with how they are driven, but if you add the 5star x 4 that the odyssey gets from nhtsa, i am beginning to wonder if the odyssey isn't actually safer than the ml, especially now that 2002 will have side airbags. the 2002 ml will have side head curtains as well, though. the debate continues! i am leaning to the odyssey now though (i want those electric doors).
I gave up ML 320 to my husband after trying to get the kids into the SUV in the rain with difficulty too many times. The Ody's electric doors are lifesaver when you are trying to load up everyone in a hurry in bad weathers. I was able to get everyone, including myself, in less a minute. Then, close the doors with remote while trying to buckle everyone up inside. The best part of it all is that I don't have to go out in the rain again to get into the driver's seat. I don't like to get wet...that's why I was willing to part with the ML. Of course, I can still drive it whenever I go out by myself if I want to.
arbac, all of the Volvos have (unfortunately; I like Volvos!) had below average reliabilty for the last few years.
mchwe, as a Volvo engineer once said, safety is a lot more than just a few safety features or good scores in a couple of crash tests such as what you mentioned...it is the art of engineering an overall package. Most people get fooled into thinking that good crash test scores automatically means a safe vehicle. This is not necessarily true. Things like permanent 4WD and stability control, as well as brake assist, patented beefy wedge shaped door latches (next time you see a MB vehicle, compare its door latches with your current vehicle), and great headlamps all contribute to this overall package.
It is for this reason as well as all of the tests that I've seen MB conduct that I personally believe that the ML is safer than any minivan or SUV on the market. For decades in Germany, MB has sent their own accident investigation team whenever there is an accident involving a MB vehicle. Volvo is the only other manufacturer in the world who does something similar (in Sweden). This way, they can have first hand knowledge of real world data and performance of their vehicles. MB and Volvo are also the only two manufacturers who send their cars sideways off a ramp to force it to rollover 4-5 times. It has been said that if this test was mandated by law, most of the vehicles sold today would fail the test. For me, the fact that all of the safety technology (new or old) is developed by the European manufacturers and handed to the Japanese, US, and Korean manufacturers says a lot.
BTW, the IIHS webpage with the injury and loss numbers applies to vehicles in 1996 and 1998. This means that it applies to the previous generation Honda Odyssey. Not even the one that is sold today. Also, they can only be compared to other vehicles in the same class (vans to vans, not vans to SUVs). An explanation for the low figures for the Odyssey may be that there were comparatively very few of them (the previous generation) sold. This results in a small sample size.
For me personally, there would be only one question...if I am going to be involved in an accident which vehicle would I rather be in? A Honda or a MB. That said though, if I needed to buy a minivan today, I would probably choose a Sienna or an Odyssey. Ask me in a few years, and I would go for the new MB minivan. However, if I was in the market for an SUV today, I would still go with an ML. As for an AWD wagon, the E320 4-matic wagon would be my choice.
My 2 cents :-) Drew Host Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
If the previous post regarding sales figures on Ody are correct, then that would indicate to me Honda can supply much more than they do. If there sales are down a few thousand than the question is if demand is greater than supply why not continue to sell every unit made and have sales that dwarf the previous year.I know this sounds confusing, but its late and I need sleep.
I think there is a manufacture and dealer "agreement" that they are all adhering to. For example, Honda keeps there units that are allocated, stored somewhere close at hand. Then when the customer comes in with his money they say give me a deposit and I get you a car in 4-6 weeks. WOW! sound's like these cars are selling like hot cakes right? Well guess what, in 2 weeks the dealer calls and says Hey! you car will be here any day. Well I think this is a bunch of bull.
If Honda filled there lots with 10-15 units ready for delivery, I think they would sell about the same every year as they do now and dealers would be forced to negotiate.
I think the car is great, but this supply issue is more hype and belief in peoples minds than anything else. Same goes for the Acura MDX.
I have a 2002 odyeesy on order and would like to get a comp. and temp. rear view mirror for my van. Between the Donnelly and Gentex, which mirror would fit and look better? Thank you
Donnelly makes them OEM for most of the automakers. I would go in that direction myself. I also knwo several folks who put installed the Donnelly. and were very happy.
what you are saying is not correct. Honda's Canadian mfg plant has had to share its production line with the Acura MDX. They are using the same chassis. The MDX is taking away form Odyssey numbers. This should ease up somewhat as the Alabama plant starts up this month.
Here in Maryland, if Honda doubled our allocations we would still sell every one we could lay our hands on.
I have a 2002 odyssey on order. I'm expecting it the end of October. Paying MSRP. I've asked to have an after market sunroof installed. I am concerned because I never see mini vans with sunroofs. Does anyone know if I'm doing the right thing?
OK... just thought that you might want to support your claim with some facts or evidence. That you are declining to do so speaks volumes, even though you are saying nothing.
In general, the auto manufacturers make much more profit on the car than the dealer. I heard somewhere that Ford makes more than $10K on every Lincoln Navigator they sell to the dealer.
In general, the futher down the sales channel you are, the less you make in profit.
IMHO, I doubt that Honda and its dealers are colluding to control supply. First, there are way too many dealers to control for this to work. I don't know how many dealers Honda has, but I doubt they could all keep that alleged plot under wraps for 3 years. Second, it's illegal. I know companies have done illegal things before, but I just don't see it.
Honda may not be building enough to satisfy demand, but neither did the people who made Cabbage Patch Kids and Tickle Me Elmo Dolls, nor electricity generators in parts of California this summer.
I believe the sales numbers are for the US only and if you take the appx 74,000 units sold through July divide by 7 and multiply by 12, you get annual sales of over 126,000 units. Capacity right now without Alabama is 120,000. So technically, they are selling at a rate that will use up all their capacity. Also, I don't know if the sales numbers are based on sales to dealers or registrations. It's possible some dealers have inventory on the lot they are holding.
I understand that you feel that paying MSRP is wrong. I didn't like paying it either, but IMHO I felt it was a good value. My goal was to get the best deal I could. Personally, I don't care how much profit the dealer makes, they set the selling price based on the market conditions. I don't know what you do for work, but trust me, if your employer is a for profit, they do the same thing.
Remember, capitalism is the American way. No profit, no need for all those employees.
i really like the constructive discussion on this board: seems like we all have similar priorities: safe family hauling.
in terms of price, i would only comment that edmunds.com van comparo stated that the odyssey would have still won their contest if it cost $5000 more. indeed, if they wanted to really make money, they would raise the price $5k and "give" you room off the sticker. markets are efficient: if they weren't worth it (esp in comparison to competing products), no one would buy it, and the odyssey is a bargain. the argument that limiting supply raises prices only applies to items that are not common. there are plenty of ody's out there, it's just that every one wants one.
thanks to our host for your thoughtful comments on the m class vs odyssey. i currently own a 98 v70, and it has been absolutely reliable. we won't buy again simply because there is no local dealership for volvo, and, although reliable, volvos still have to go to the shop more than most japanese cars. my wife drools for the e320 wagon, but you can literally buy two odysseys for the price.
i do believe that volvo and mb pioneer safety technologies that trickle (at no cost, generally) to other car makers over subsequent years. mb has never exercised patent protection on any car safety device, even though they are copied over and over. however, certain changes take years to know if they are positive or not (e.g. kids and front airbags, antilock brakes not preventing accidents).
now i am leaning towards the m class again! how will i ever decide?
The basic design of the 1999, 2000 and 2001 Odysseys are the same. That means that almost all parts are interchangeable, in all three models.
As parts fail in them they will be replaced with the latest design, preferred part. Therefore the reliability of the 1999 and 2000 Odysseys will approach that of the 2001 model, as time goes on.
Wrap around seats: They have the advantage that they hold you in better as you go around corners. The disadvantage is they restrict your movement and therefore may not be as as comfortable. I have not had problems staying in my seat, with the non wrap around seat, in the past models of the Odyssey.
I see what your saying. I have a friend that sells cars for a Honda dealer and he thinks the owners are not being completely truthful. I don't think dealers are the one who have agreed to this I personally feel Honda is controlling supply.
My friend tells new Honda Ody clients the car will arrive about 4-6 weeks after they leave there deposit. Sure enough they call the customer after 10-14 days and tell them there car is a few days away. Go figure. I know its better to under promise then over deliver but this smells a little funny.
As for anyone else here who buys an Ody and the dealer has a mark up over sticker, I would tell them to take a hike.
I think the spread between MSRP and invoice in about $2000.00 which is not bad to begin with, but the 2002 with Nav & DVD will be up there.
I really don't mind paying MSRP since almost everyone else is paying the same amount +/- few $$$. All cars should sell at MSRP or have prices that are same/fair for everyone. Not to the person with the best negotiatation skills. Just my opinion.
When two people buy the same car from the same dealer and pay $2K difference, something is not right. For most cars, MSRP is meaningless. In the local paper, an Olds Aurora was marked down $10K. Feel sorry for the sad folks who buy them at MSRP.
Thanks again for your voice of reason. This place is crawling with Honda salesmen. Without you this board could have very well become a Honda brainwashing operation. I agree with your analysis. My personal category winners are 1) Minivans - '02 Odyssey, '01 or '02 Sienna 2) SUVs - ML, Sequoia, X5, MDX and 3) Wagons - E320 4matic, Audi Allroad, Volvo V70. Unfortunately, budgetary constraints eliminate the X5, Sequoia, MB E320 4matic & the Audi Allroad from my list. I want to buy the best family transport under $40K out the door.
Also, you may find this interesting. I called one honda dealership and was offered the '02 Ody for 500 under MSRP. This is after talking for 2 minutes, and only the first call I have made.
Gee, arbabc, I'm happy for you that with only one quick phone call you were able to garner a $500 under MSRP offer on an Odyssey. How about using this forum to its true potential and mentioning the name of the dealer and salesperson? I'm sure there are others who read this discussion that live near you and are interested in buying an Odyssey who would find this information helpful. Maybe you could even work out a referral deal between yourself and the salesperson.
Oh, and would all the Honda salespeople who add to this discussion please stand up? Hey, not everyone all at once...
Hi! I'm one of those long-time lurkers who is finally getting serious about my Odyssey, especially after the great prices just unveiled! (thanx ksemeh!) My humble query: how much should I pay to get a keyless remote added to my Ody LX? It's the only thing we want to add, so I'm kinda hoping the dealer might "throw it in" to stand out from the crowd at MSRP, but I would like an estimate of dealer cost/markup for it. Also I live in the Phoenix area and haven't seen too many people posting about deals around here. Any experience on price/service? The couple salesmen I've talked to over the last year were pretty haughty. Thanks in advance.....vikki26
The Phoenix Honda dealers are trying to ride out their MSRP plus as long as possible. Called the Tempe Autoplex and they say they are doing MSRP +$1,700 as standard. Even Beaudry Honda in Tucson where you used to get MSRP is saying the 2002's will be MSRP plus. I'd suggest waiting it out for a few months if you can. I think they are trying to take advantage of those who can't wait and when the added production from Alabama comes in they'll change their attitude.
Still need to add $440 destination charge to the above MSRP prices. Looks like Honda raised the EX by only $350.
Yes, the second part of my last post was a bit of sarcasm directed your way; my apologies if you took offense. However, I felt that I just had to respond to your remark that "this place is crawling with Honda salesmen". I simply believe that's not true. This discussion is full of satisfied Odyssey owners who believe the van they've purchased is the best value for their dollar, even at MSRP. There are some Honda salespeople that contribute as well; usually with honest, insightful comments.
The first part of my last post was straightforward with no sarcasm intended. I think it would be a great help to prospective Odyssey owners who live near you if you would mention the Honda dealer and salesperson who you talked to that were so quick to drop their price to $500 below MSRP.
all the xtra horseposer and options and they keep the price the same?!?!?!?! they could have raised it $2k and the Odyssey still would have had a 6 month waiting list....
Make mine a white EXL... I was expecting the leather option to put the vehickle in the low $30's like a certain other domestic brand (Town and Country)... why would anyone buy a Chrysler now????
Of course, there is NO price for the full-loaded EX. But I suppose it is obvious that the RES ads $1500, and the NAV ads $2000 over the EXL, so if you add both of those to EXL, you get: $31750 plus $440 destination. Still an amazing deal for all you get. I ordered mine last week, and they still are not convinced that I can have RES and NAV together, since the official prices don't mention that set-up. We'll see.
As for controlling supply - I would look more to the individual dealer not releasing allocation information to the sales force. My view is rather simplistic. Honda Mfg gets paid by the dealer based on when they ship the car. The have an interest in having the dealer sell the car, but their main concern is getting the product to the dealer. Hence, they ship out as much as they have.
Based on what your friend says, it sounds like the dealership is not giving out full allocation info to the sales force. When I bought mine, the sales rep told me he had a white one available in 6-8 weeks and called me in 6 with VIN number and I had it in 8.
Remember, Honda dealers are independent businesses. They can do what they want.
If you look at the bottom of the 02 features you will find the following:
"**The Honda DVD Entertainment System and the Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System cannot be ordered together and are only available when optional leather interior is ordered."
Hi, I have a 2000 Odyssey LX and I love it. I have two questions. 1- We have about 29,000 miles on it and the tires are worn out and ready for new ones. Is that typical or is there is problem with the tires? 2- I have noticed for quite a while and decided to ask about this...when I put the brakes on the front end of the car, assuming by the wheels, make a strange kind of grinding sound until the van comes to a complete stop. It doesn't happen with slow stops but more forceful stops it is very obvious. Not slam on stops, but just rather forceful one. Should I be worrying about this? Thanks BJC
-Odyssey EXL RES (Rear Entertainment System) Automatic - Retail $29,750
-Odyssey EXL NAV (Navigation System) Automatic - Retail $30,250
The bottom of this pricing explains that these DID NOT include destination and handling:
-Destination and Handling add $440 | Prices effective 8/23/01
2003 Honda Odyssey EX-LRES - Midnight Blue Pearl 2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl 2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue 2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
I know that past industry practice is that the mfg can play around with allocations of popular and profitable cars in order to push slower selling ones. So if a dealer is willing to take on say extra DX's trim lines, then they might get their Odyssey's allocations up.
Of course it's hard to tell with Hondas since so many models are popular. But I think it makes perfect sense for Honda to award more Odysseys to dealerships accept slower less profitable models. The huge profits on the Odyssey make up for the lower margins on others.
I think this is why Honda kept MSRP basically unchanged (and therefore invoice too) even though they know it could sell for much more. That's in addition to the marketing advantages of the low MSRP.
The reason you cannot get both of them together is because the DVD controls and NAV display would take up the same space on the dashboard. If you really need both, I suggest getting the NAV and buying an aftermarket DVD system.
Thanks for pointing that out. I keep hearing of orders configured like mine, but nobody seems to know if it can happen. My order has been placed, and nobody has balked at it yet. The wording is still left up to interpretation....does it mean that if I get leather that I CAN have both together? Possibly.
Are you sure about this, or is this the best guess? (please don't take offense, I'm just wondering if you know for sure). It makes sense, I suppose, but I thought the DVD controls were down low on the player.
I'm on the way to talk to the dealer to see what they know...
I also have a 2000 LX, the grinding sound that you are hearing when you brake are probably the wear indicators on your brake pads, they make this sound to warn you to take it in and have brakes done before your rotors get scored. I had the brakes done at 39k miles when they started making that sound. My Firestone Affinity tires at 40k miles look like they still have about 10-15k more miles on them. Tire and brake wear have a lot to do with driving habits, if you tend to drive fast and brake hard, your brakes and tires will wear quicker. In any event these items will tend to wear faster than on a sedan because the Ody is over 4300 lbs as compared to less than 3000 lbs on a sedan. For example, we have a 96 Saturn with original Firestone Affinity tires that has gone over 60k and look like they're good for another 20k and it's brakes were done at 52k.
Are you sure about this, or is this the best guess? (please don't take offense, I'm just wondering if you know for sure). It makes sense, I suppose, but I thought the DVD controls were down low on the player.
Our dealer had initially ordered a NAV model, claiming that they would be able to add the factory DVD player as an option at the dealership. They later called to state that this couldn't be done, but they could install the VHS player currently available. Since the DVD player was something we wanted, and the NAV was simply a nice throw in, he changed our order to a RES model.
At the bottom it says: "**The Honda DVD Entertainment System and the Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System cannot be ordered together and are only available when optional leather interior is ordered."
Also if you look at the pictures at this site (go to images, 2nd page) there is a great shot of the DVD configuration. You're right, the DVD is low but I think the DVD must be integrated with a different stereo (I guess it is the stereo that seems to use up all the space) so you could get a movie audio to play on the car speakers in addition to the headsets. If you look closely I think the DVD controls are on the stereo which makes sense so you can operate it without bending down.
Thanks for the info guys. I just got back from the dealer, and they said they'll know for sure this afternoon, but it doesn't look good. I'll going with NAV, and will look for a way to add the DVD later if I can't have them both.
While I have your eyes...are there any other good Odyssey forums around that I shouldn't miss? I love the info here, but hate the interface.
i think that installed dvd's are so overpriced: consider that you can buy a laptop computer for about $1000 that will play a dvd out of the box and have a 15 inch screen instead of a 7 inch screen.
i had an interesting conversation with a local salesperson, jane in tuscaloosa, al. she sold me a new odyssey lx in 2000 that i bought for dad. she gave me a little less than a grand off sticker. given the demand for the vehicle, i thought that was a great deal, esp considering that all i asked was that she do for me as well as she could.
jane advised me that the nav system performance has been disappointing in my area, and actually advised me not to spend money on it! i have always listened carefully when a salesperson tells me not to buy something that i sell!
has anyone else heard of bad gps performance in southeast usa? if anyone in alabama is reading, i do recommend jane in tuscaloosa: if i get the ody over the ml320, it will be from her.
you could purchase your cloth seat Odyssey & have the i-VES system installed as a dealer-installed accessory, while currently the i-VES system is VHS-based, they may well have the updated DVD version avail. shortly?....
Comments
I'll check out the info sources you have provided.
Thanks.
Like most new car sales this year, Odyssey sales are down about 3,000 units from 2000 while the Sienna's are down about 13,000 units.
I imagine the gap between the two will widen significantly next year as Honda not only increases production, but offers a 240Hhp engine, 5-speed automatic transmission, significant suspension improvements, dual stage airbags, side airbags, stereo upgrades and optional leather.
The Odyssey will compete far more effectively with the DC Town and Country as well, offering the only factory DVD system, and the EX with the above new features, leather, 4-wheel disc brakes, and DVD will become the new luxury minivan in the market.
in terms of the ml 320 2002, they are just now rolling out of tuscaloosa: supposedly there are a thousand (!) of them in the factory grounds that have been made over the last several weeks, that they are bringing back into the factory for further mods. employees tell me they are taking their time more with this roll out, whatever that's worth in terms of quality.
in terms of safety, i went to the iihs and nhtsa websites. the odyssey has the lowest injury payout of any van, and is actually lower than the ml. (www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_wagon.htm).
of course, i know this has a lot to do with how they are driven, but if you add the 5star x 4 that the odyssey gets from nhtsa, i am beginning to wonder if the odyssey isn't actually safer than the ml, especially now that 2002 will have side airbags. the 2002 ml will have side head curtains as well, though. the debate continues! i am leaning to the odyssey now though (i want those electric doors).
mchwe, as a Volvo engineer once said, safety is a lot more than just a few safety features or good scores in a couple of crash tests such as what you mentioned...it is the art of engineering an overall package. Most people get fooled into thinking that good crash test scores automatically means a safe vehicle. This is not necessarily true. Things like permanent 4WD and stability control, as well as brake assist, patented beefy wedge shaped door latches (next time you see a MB vehicle, compare its door latches with your current vehicle), and great headlamps all contribute to this overall package.
It is for this reason as well as all of the tests that I've seen MB conduct that I personally believe that the ML is safer than any minivan or SUV on the market. For decades in Germany, MB has sent their own accident investigation team whenever there is an accident involving a MB vehicle. Volvo is the only other manufacturer in the world who does something similar (in Sweden). This way, they can have first hand knowledge of real world data and performance of their vehicles. MB and Volvo are also the only two manufacturers who send their cars sideways off a ramp to force it to rollover 4-5 times. It has been said that if this test was mandated by law, most of the vehicles sold today would fail the test. For me, the fact that all of the safety technology (new or old) is developed by the European manufacturers and handed to the Japanese, US, and Korean manufacturers says a lot.
BTW, the IIHS webpage with the injury and loss numbers applies to vehicles in 1996 and 1998. This means that it applies to the previous generation Honda Odyssey. Not even the one that is sold today. Also, they can only be compared to other vehicles in the same class (vans to vans, not vans to SUVs). An explanation for the low figures for the Odyssey may be that there were comparatively very few of them (the previous generation) sold. This results in a small sample size.
For me personally, there would be only one question...if I am going to be involved in an accident which vehicle would I rather be in? A Honda or a MB. That said though, if I needed to buy a minivan today, I would probably choose a Sienna or an Odyssey. Ask me in a few years, and I would go for the new MB minivan. However, if I was in the market for an SUV today, I would still go with an ML. As for an AWD wagon, the E320 4-matic wagon would be my choice.
My 2 cents :-)
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I think there is a manufacture and dealer "agreement" that they are all adhering to. For example, Honda keeps there units that are allocated, stored somewhere close at hand. Then when the customer comes in with his money they say give me a deposit and I get you a car in 4-6 weeks. WOW! sound's like these cars are selling like hot cakes right? Well guess what, in 2 weeks the dealer calls and says Hey! you car will be here any day. Well I think this is a bunch of bull.
If Honda filled there lots with 10-15 units ready for delivery, I think they would sell about the same every year as they do now and dealers would be forced to negotiate.
I think the car is great, but this supply issue is more hype and belief in peoples minds than anything else. Same goes for the Acura MDX.
Now someone tell me IM wrong and why?
Here in Maryland, if Honda doubled our allocations we would still sell every one we could lay our hands on.
Jerry
In general, the futher down the sales channel you are, the less you make in profit.
Honda may not be building enough to satisfy demand, but neither did the people who made Cabbage Patch Kids and Tickle Me Elmo Dolls, nor electricity generators in parts of California this summer.
I believe the sales numbers are for the US only and if you take the appx 74,000 units sold through July divide by 7 and multiply by 12, you get annual sales of over 126,000 units. Capacity right now without Alabama is 120,000. So technically, they are selling at a rate that will use up all their capacity. Also, I don't know if the sales numbers are based on sales to dealers or registrations. It's possible some dealers have inventory on the lot they are holding.
I understand that you feel that paying MSRP is wrong. I didn't like paying it either, but IMHO I felt it was a good value. My goal was to get the best deal I could. Personally, I don't care how much profit the dealer makes, they set the selling price based on the market conditions. I don't know what you do for work, but trust me, if your employer is a for profit, they do the same thing.
Remember, capitalism is the American way. No profit, no need for all those employees.
drew_ "Aftermarket auto dimming rearview mirrors" Feb 25, 2001 1:46pm
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
in terms of price, i would only comment that edmunds.com van comparo stated that the odyssey would have still won their contest if it cost $5000 more. indeed, if they wanted to really make money, they would raise the price $5k and "give" you room off the sticker. markets are efficient: if they weren't worth it (esp in comparison to competing products), no one would buy it, and the odyssey is a bargain. the argument that limiting supply raises prices only applies to items that are not common. there are plenty of ody's out there, it's just that every one wants one.
thanks to our host for your thoughtful comments on the m class vs odyssey. i currently own a 98 v70, and it has been absolutely reliable. we won't buy again simply because there is no local dealership for volvo, and, although reliable, volvos still have to go to the shop more than most japanese cars. my wife drools for the e320 wagon, but you can literally buy two odysseys for the price.
i do believe that volvo and mb pioneer safety technologies that trickle (at no cost, generally) to other car makers over subsequent years. mb has never exercised patent protection on any car safety device, even though they are copied over and over. however, certain changes take years to know if they are positive or not (e.g. kids and front airbags, antilock brakes not preventing accidents).
now i am leaning towards the m class again! how will i ever decide?
As parts fail in them they will be replaced with the latest design, preferred part. Therefore the reliability of the 1999 and 2000 Odysseys will approach that of the 2001 model, as time goes on.
Wrap around seats: They have the advantage that they hold you in better as you go around corners. The disadvantage is they restrict your movement and therefore may not be as as comfortable. I have not had problems staying in my seat, with the non wrap around seat, in the past models of the Odyssey.
My friend tells new Honda Ody clients the car will arrive about 4-6 weeks after they leave there deposit. Sure enough they call the customer after 10-14 days and tell them there car is a few days away. Go figure. I know its better to under promise then over deliver but this smells a little funny.
As for anyone else here who buys an Ody and the dealer has a mark up over sticker, I would tell them to take a hike.
I think the spread between MSRP and invoice in about $2000.00 which is not bad to begin with, but the 2002 with Nav & DVD will be up there.
When two people buy the same car from the same dealer and pay $2K difference, something is not right. For most cars, MSRP is meaningless. In the local paper, an Olds Aurora was marked down $10K. Feel sorry for the sad folks who buy them at MSRP.
Odyssey LX Automatic - Retail $24,250
Odyssey EX Automatic - Retail $26,750
Odyssey EXL Automatic - Retail $28,250
Odyssey EXL RES (Rear Entertainment System) Automatic - Retail $29,750
Odyssey EXL NAV (Navigation System) Automatic - Retail $30,250
Also, you may find this interesting. I called one honda dealership and was offered the '02 Ody for 500 under MSRP. This is after talking for 2 minutes, and only the first call I have made.
Oh, and would all the Honda salespeople who add to this discussion please stand up? Hey, not everyone all at once...
Also I live in the Phoenix area and haven't seen too many people posting about deals around here. Any experience on price/service? The couple salesmen I've talked to over the last year were pretty haughty. Thanks in advance.....vikki26
http://www.handa-accessories.com/odyelec02.html
Still need to add $440 destination charge to the above MSRP prices. Looks like Honda raised the EX by only $350.
The first part of my last post was straightforward with no sarcasm intended. I think it would be a great help to prospective Odyssey owners who live near you if you would mention the Honda dealer and salesperson who you talked to that were so quick to drop their price to $500 below MSRP.
INKY
Make mine a white EXL... I was expecting the leather option to put the vehickle in the low $30's like a certain other domestic brand (Town and Country)... why would anyone buy a Chrysler now????
any one have any information on the 2002 model, w.r.t. price, options, changes etc.
thanks
RT
2001/2002 features:
http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/honda/odyssey/index_text2.html?KWx=odyfeat
2001/2002 specs:
http://www.hondanews.com/forms/honda/odyssey/index_text2.html?KWx=odyspecs
- Darell
Based on what your friend says, it sounds like the dealership is not giving out full allocation info to the sales force. When I bought mine, the sales rep told me he had a white one available in 6-8 weeks and called me in 6 with VIN number and I had it in 8.
Remember, Honda dealers are independent businesses. They can do what they want.
Good Luck.
"**The Honda DVD Entertainment System and the Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System cannot be ordered together and are only available when optional leather interior is ordered."
FWIW
I have a 2000 Odyssey LX and I love it. I have two questions. 1- We have about 29,000 miles on it and the tires are worn out and ready for new ones. Is that typical or is there is problem with the tires? 2- I have noticed for quite a while and decided to ask about this...when I put the brakes on the front end of the car, assuming by the wheels, make a strange kind of grinding sound until the van comes to a complete stop. It doesn't happen with slow stops but more forceful stops it is very obvious. Not slam on stops, but just rather forceful one. Should I be worrying about this? Thanks BJC
http://www.collegehillshonda.com/2002.htm
-Odyssey LX Automatic - Retail $24,250
-Odyssey EX Automatic - Retail $26,750
-Odyssey EXL Automatic - Retail $28,250
-Odyssey EXL RES (Rear Entertainment System) Automatic - Retail $29,750
-Odyssey EXL NAV (Navigation System) Automatic - Retail $30,250
The bottom of this pricing explains that these DID NOT include destination and handling:
-Destination and Handling add $440 | Prices effective 8/23/01
2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl
2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue
2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
Of course it's hard to tell with Hondas since so many models are popular. But I think it makes perfect sense for Honda to award more Odysseys to dealerships accept slower less profitable models. The huge profits on the Odyssey make up for the lower margins on others.
I think this is why Honda kept MSRP basically unchanged (and therefore invoice too) even though they know it could sell for much more. That's in addition to the marketing advantages of the low MSRP.
- Darell
I'm on the way to talk to the dealer to see what they know...
Thanks,
Darell
probably the wear indicators on your brake pads, they make this sound to warn you
to take it in and have brakes done before your rotors get scored.
I had the brakes done at 39k miles when they started making that sound. My Firestone
Affinity tires at 40k miles look like they still have about 10-15k more miles on them.
Tire and brake wear have a lot to do with driving habits, if you tend to drive fast and
brake hard, your brakes and tires will wear quicker. In any event these items will tend
to wear faster than on a sedan because the Ody is over 4300 lbs as compared to less
than 3000 lbs on a sedan. For example, we have a 96 Saturn with original Firestone
Affinity tires that has gone over 60k and look like they're good for another 20k and it's
brakes were done at 52k.
Our dealer had initially ordered a NAV model, claiming that they would be able to add the factory DVD player as an option at the dealership. They later called to state that this couldn't be done, but they could install the VHS player currently available. Since the DVD player was something we wanted, and the NAV was simply a nice throw in, he changed our order to a RES model.
http://www.hondanews.com/forms/honda/odyssey/index.html
At the bottom it says: "**The Honda DVD Entertainment System and the Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System cannot be ordered together and are only available when optional leather interior is ordered."
Also if you look at the pictures at this site (go to images, 2nd page) there is a great shot of the DVD configuration. You're right, the DVD is low but I think the DVD must be integrated with a different stereo (I guess it is the stereo that seems to use up all the space) so you could get a movie audio to play on the car speakers in addition to the headsets. If you look closely I think the DVD controls are on the stereo which makes sense so you can operate it without bending down.
While I have your eyes...are there any other good Odyssey forums around that I shouldn't miss? I love the info here, but hate the interface.
Thanks,
Darell
thanks
i had an interesting conversation with a local salesperson, jane in tuscaloosa, al. she sold me a new odyssey lx in 2000 that i bought for dad. she gave me a little less than a grand off sticker. given the demand for the vehicle, i thought that was a great deal, esp considering that all i asked was that she do for me as well as she could.
jane advised me that the nav system performance has been disappointing in my area, and actually advised me not to spend money on it! i have always listened carefully when a salesperson tells me not to buy something that i sell!
has anyone else heard of bad gps performance in southeast usa? if anyone in alabama is reading, i do recommend jane in tuscaloosa: if i get the ody over the ml320, it will be from her.
& have the i-VES system installed as a dealer-installed accessory, while currently the i-VES system is VHS-based, they may well have the updated DVD version avail. shortly?....