Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    mmateyak: A fellow posted the other day that he had to do the same thing (different car though) and had to pay the dealer $400 above whatever price to get the cloth! can you just order a set of seat covers latter, I know it is a drag to be locked into certain options.

    b4z: have you seen the Onyx Black, it is AWESOME! I have it, it looks rich, sorry, I am not pushing you for a certain color, I just like to talk about my car! makes the waiting easier, oh man, can't wait.

    -Alan
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I have seen the black and it looks great. But i don't have the time to keep up a black car anymore. I used to own a black '85 IROC-Z, I took off the stripes and decals with a blow dryer. That car looked incredible, it would literally stop traffic. The problem was that it would show dirt two hours after i waxed it.

    Nothing looks better than a black car when it is clean. The good thing about the pewter is that it doesn't show dirt, and because it is a metallic paint i imagine that it looks incredible with a high quality glaze and wax on it.

    The more i look at the bravada the more i think it is the better of the triplets. I priced the trailblazer the other day and the bravada is the better deal, especially due to the incredibly cheap looking plastic used in the trailblazer.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I think the bravada is the better of the GM offerings but there are some things i don't like.
    The transition from the headlights to the hood shows to much of a gap and allows you to see the top of the headlight bezel and up under the hood.

    Door gaps are too large, especially on the backdoor and the tailgate. Some uneven fit going on there.

    Hood fender gap was absolutely straight on one side, but the driver side actually was tighter in the center and wider at the headlights. Don't quite know how they accomplished that.

    It has been my experience with oldsmobile that as they get farther into production they panel fit gets better.

    Felt like there was too much inner fender showing and that the car should sit lower to the ground.
    But since it is an SUV i am okay with it.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    please enlighten me on "mulitple design and quality defects" in the new Envoy/Trailblaser/Bravada. You seem to be much better informed than me.
  • labrador4labrador4 Member Posts: 5
    Drove the Bravada first and thought it was luxurious - very comfortable. Then drove the 4WD Envoy - W/O the air-suspension option that's standard on Bravada - and liked it BETTER, for two reasons. Relative to the Envoy, the Bravada is too nice, I felt out of touch with the road, and the AWD mode sucks some of the pep out of that new 270 hp engine. Flipped the switch to 2WD on the Envoy and I felt that extra power and quickness. I suspect the Trailblazer will be like the Envoy.
  • fletch45fletch45 Member Posts: 72
    I went to KBB.com, and followed the links to "build this car" for the Trailblazer. If you de-select the leather seat option, it gives a "this option cannot be modified" alert. You might check with a dealer, but as a general rule, KBB seems to be pretty accurate. The LT Silverados are the same way (leather).

    Most of this was said in the last message. I went through the LT/LTZ comparison last week (before I ordered one), and if I remember right, the following are not available on the LT: 2 tone paint (includes body cladding, but you can't get it yet on the LTZ anyway), turn signals in the outside mirrors, rainsense wipers, 17" wheels, and heated seats (I think).

    Too bad about the leather. I have known others that prefer cloth to leather.

    FYI: You should check out the kbb.com site for info on new vehicles...easy to use and pretty accurate.
  • svesciosvescio Member Posts: 12
    General Motors is recalling 6000 of its new-generation mid-size SUV's, the 2002 Chevrolet Trailblazer, GMC Envoy, and Oldsmobile Bravada, for possible steering problems. The

    pre-emptive recall comes just as the new vehicles are heading to showrooms. We all know this already.


    It's not known how many, if any, Canadian vehicles are affected.


    Below is an E-mail I received directly from Heather, my contact at GM Canada (unedited):


    The suspension safety recall involves certain vehicles built at the General

    Motors assembly plant in Moraine, Ohio.


    Under certain circumstances it may be possible for the front lower control arm to fracture, resulting in separation of the front lower control arm from the frame. A separation could result in loss of vehicle control and a crash could occur without prior warning.


    General Motors has recently learned of this condition and we have dedicated the time since then to determining the extent of the condition and its effect on vehicle performance. We now believe that the best course of action is to communicate with our customers and to help prevent any potential incidents while GM finishes its investigation of the condition. We will address remedying the condition after completing our investigation.


    We stopped shipping vehicles from the plant as of Monday, April 2. General Motors will not manufacture any new TrailBlazers until this condition is completely remedied. If your vehicle is already at a dealership, you should know that General Motors has sent dealers a notice that they should not deliver vehicles to customers, due to the existence of a safety defect. The dealers will be notified when General Motors has developed an appropriate repair procedure and when parts become available. At that time, the dealer will repair the vehicle and notify you that the repair has been completed.


    If you require further assistance, do not hesitate to e-mail us back at http://www.gmcanada.com.

  • svesciosvescio Member Posts: 12
    Have you heard of the recall for the 2002 Ford Explorer?

    It seems that Ford did not check for every defect.

    They made a big show in the media how they were not going to have any recalls or defects because they checked everything numerous times.

    Apparently they never thought to check the rear glass hatch.

    The point is no manufacturer is immune from this.
  • svmansvman Member Posts: 25
    Several posts have mentioned the great black and pewter color of these, but what about the indigo blue. It looks great to me, and I suppose dirt will also show (like on the black onyx, right?)alot on it, but is this shade of blue one of those colors that no one will want in a few years?
  • doc35doc35 Member Posts: 23
    I have to tell you, I am impressed that GM would go to the efforts that they have to pursue this recall, safely and quickly.

    I have been looking at the Envoy as a replacement for my 99 Audi A4 Quattro. Love the car, need more space. Unfortunately for me, my beloved German autobahn cruiser spent the weekend at the dealership. It went in on Friday for a routine service and brake replacement. They casually mentioned that there was also a recall, "not a big deal, probably won't have time for it today, we'll schedule you on the 25th, the tie-rods, really doesn't affect many cars, you've probably been driving for a few months under the recall, not a big deal..." Going to pick up my car at 6pm, I get a call, "Uh, Hi, this is Barrier service and we just wanted to let you know that we had your car up on the lift and it just so happens that YOUR tie rods are affected and loose, the mechanic won't let you drive the car until they are fixed, they might...break" My response, "What would happen if that occured? (Yes, I already knew the answer)" "Well, you would probably lose control of the affect front wheel or wheels and they would collapse under the car causing you to get in an accident" "Great, I want a rental car upgrade..." "No problem..."

    So, moral of the story, I really wish Audi had the same attention to safety as they proclaim and GM seems to exhibit.

    I definitely will be looking harder at the Envoy now.

    Kirk
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    It is a dilemma. I think white and black probably have the best resale value.

    I am currently looking to replace my bronze mist intrigue with a 2001 intrigue. There are significant incentives on these vehicles now and i will be able to get about $5200 in discounts due to the olds loyalty bonus.

    But what color? The sterling silver requires a grey interior. I already have bronze mist. Black is hard to take care of and shows every blemish.
    White is kind of bland, but is otherwise okay.
    The forest green looks almost black and seems to be falling from favor. Sandstone is a nothing color. This leaves me with the indigo blue.
    It too is very close to black. It will probably show dirt. It doesn't have enough blue in it to really stand out. Maybe if it were a shade or two lighter it might be better.

    Having said that, i think it will probably be the blue with a neutral leather interior. I will keep the car a long time, so i am not concerned with the resale.

    After i buy the intrigue i will get the bravada later in the summer. I will not buy blue for the bravada because i think it needs a stronger metallic paint to show off the side lines and styling of the vehicle. Pewter is definitely the color for me on the bravada.

    White would not be to bad on this vehicle either.

    Long winded post but it is interesting to me how some colors from the same manufacturer look good on one vehicle and not so great on another.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I think the Ford recall is more embarrassing because Ford held back the release of the 2002 Explorer to make sure all defects were corrected. I'm sure it's a good truck, but it goes to prove there are no defect free vehicles.
  • iukstuiukstu Member Posts: 12
    Has anyone heard from their dealer today? Mine just called and told me that "he understood" that they received a notice today that they may have the part needed to fix the vehicle by the end of the week. I told him that I found this very strange since the plant was shut down and from everything that I had read, they didn't even have a fix yet. He said that he didn't want to tell me anything wrong but that is what he understood that they were told. Also, does anyone know if ALL dealerships were notified Thursday morning. I know that the recall was at 10:15ish. He said that they were not notified until Friday, hence the reason that I was not called until Friday. Me thinks I smell something! Please let me know if you know anything about when the dealers were notified and if there is a fix on the way. Thanks!!
  • r22549r22549 Member Posts: 42
    I called my local dealer about a quote on the Bravada. First asked if they heard anything about fixing the problem. Said problem was only for the Trailblazer..I said I don't think so...They called me back, yup I was right...

    Ok, I called another dealer that I have bought 2 Bravada's from...Straight shooter...Said he believes they have the fix, new part..Will let me know...
  • mmateyakmmateyak Member Posts: 15
    Fletch, yes I have been working on kbb.com to look at pricing options and I saw exactly what you were saying...hence my question! ;) THanks for the input all...I appreciate it.

    Something interesting I noticed yesterday and today:

    1) I thought I saw (what I think was) a Trailblazer parked in a lot (not a dealership lot) of a business.

    2) I saw (what I think was) a Trailblazer parked in my apartment complex. Unfortunately...it was only there briefly and I could not confirm its identity before it left.

    Im wondering if either these people are unaware of the recall...or it was fixed?!?

    Anyone have any current info on the recall? Anyone else seeing Trailblazer's being driven?

    Kinda confused myself...but I have only seen two...and they were at a distant...perhaps I am confusing some of the smaller Tahoe's with the Trailblazer...but I dont think so. But, I can very well be wrong. I don't want to make anyone think I am 100% positive...or that something mysterious is going on. Just wondering if anyone else is catching a glimpse of passing Trailblazers?!?

    mmateyak
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    iukstu: My dealer called Friday, it depends on the office sales manager and how often he checks for new communications. My dealer happen to be one of the best.
    I don't think thee is any thing mysterious or they are keeping us in the dark, I think they just want to be careful.

    doc35: I feel a lot better after reading your post, makes GM really shines!

    -Alan
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    Customer Service Rep says they have not heard if a fix is known or ready to ship. It is clear to them from headquarters that this trio of TB/Envoy/Bravada is their most critical market segment. It is their most profitable, fastest growing and most visible segment.Getting this recall done is priority number 1, and that customers must be treated with great consideration - they want it done right.

    They got me permission to rent a new Jeep Grand Cherokee from Enterprise when my dealer repeatedly tried to lowball me into a subcompact and then into a very old rental that was filthy. The dealer initially tried to refuse to deal with Enterprise Rental Cars, but the GM Customer Service people leaned on them (talked to the General Manager of the dealer) and got them to play ball. I asked Customer Service to make sure not to piss off the dealer too much - they have my Bravda, after all.

    GM Customer Service says their highest priority is to get those 6K vehicles back on the road so that we can continue advertising for the brand and models as we go on our daily lives. They couldn't afford the publicity that owners give to their cars for free. This makes me believe that parts will go to fix the 6K vehicles before they light up the factory again, and then they'll start to deal with those vehicles sitting in their inventory parking lot.

    I like the Bravada better than the Jeep.
  • bshapbshap Member Posts: 23
    I walked into a Chevy dealer yesterday, and asked about the new Trailblazer. As a 16 year old, I was not immediately approached by any of the 6 salesmen on the floor. When I walked up to them and politely asked for a Trailblazer brochure, they asked me if I was going to buy any time soon. Did I say I was looking for a brochure, or was it my imagination? I choose my family's cars, so they at least could afford a 16 year old some respect when he tells the dealers they will be negotiating with a minor. After getting a brochure, I asked how long it would be until the recall issue was solved. The six started laughing and said it would be at least a month. Anyway, they continued to ignore me until the nearby Acura dealer walked in the door for lunch and recognized me by name. After telling the Acura dealer how impressed I was with the driving characteristics of the MDX, the Chevy salesmen stopped laughing. The Acura dealer then proceeded to tell me he would call me and my father for a test drive of the new TL Type S and the new RS-X when they come in. After that, I went back to the Chevy dealers and said that there was no way they were ever going to get MSRP for a Trailblazer again, especially when GM advises their owners not to drive their cars during a major recall, and since they have to compete with salesmen like those at the Acura dealership. I then walked out to the garage. I looked inside a parked/recalled Trailblazer LTZ. Very nice looking exterior, but the interior was not on par with an MDX. I would most likely choose an Envoy because of superior looks both inside and out. I was going to examine the Trailblazer more, but the grease monkey screamed at me to leave. I ran to my car and left.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    It doesn't matter, you should still treat everyone who walks into your business with the respect. While i was a minor i initiated the purchase of two Chevy Impalas for my parents.

    Our salesman new me and always treated me with respect. I have purchased 5 cars from him in the last few years.

    I don't think bshap tried to negotiate a purchase with the Chevy dealer, he was looking for information and was treated poorly.
  • ralforalfo Member Posts: 36
    Check out the post at the following forum. What does everyone think?

    http://forums.vmag.com/suvenvoy0199/
  • mmateyakmmateyak Member Posts: 15
    If thats the case, and it IS a washer that needs to be added/replaced...I would not think GM would offer a "temporary" fix...only to have to recall all the vehicles again. I think GM will take their time to isolate the problem and find a permanent fix.

    Also, keep in mind that these vehicles (well my research is pretty much limited to the Trailblazer) have been tested hard in everything from long distance luxury drives to intense Baja offroad competitions...and over the course of 1000s and 1000s of miles.

    The vehicles that were tested were able to handle all that rugged offroading and long distance driving...so this can't be a DESIGN flaw. They just need to isolate the source of the manufacturing flaw and fix it. I feel the fix will be permanent and duplicate that of their design (original) which was durable throughout the testing procedures before each model was released.

    What confuses me is...if GM has a handle on a faulty vehicle and also has a handle on a fully functional and depenedable BETA/test vehicle that withstood the testing procedures....how hard can it be to discover/manufacture a fix??!?!?

    Seems quite odd to me.

    mmateyak
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    Well, I went there, it is interesting to say the least, looks like the folks there are a lot more paranoid than around here. Sounds to me that fix could cost any where from $.50 (yes, fifty cent) to few thousand dollars! depending on who do you believe.

    I called GM for an update early in the day today, they were nice, but no estimate on when the fix will be available, however, near the end of the call I was told that "rumor has it that the dealers should have the part by weeks end"! - Now, that is coming from a GM rep!

    Incedently, in today's New York Times, there were a full page ad by GM (the NY auto show starts tomorrow 4/13 to 22) featuring 4 pics of 4 trucks,
    the one on the top 1/3 of the page was a TB, the 3 on the bottom where Envoy, an SUV that I could not tell and the 3ed was the Bravada. GM DID NOT list or mention the trucks in name but said in the ad something like "come and see the all new line for 2002 before they hit the streets" - Hum!!! may be they will wait tell the show is over and then announce when it will be fixed.

    -Alan
  • joycec2joycec2 Member Posts: 3
    Went to the site mentioned above, and the things mentioned there make no sense. First, let me say that I am far from an automobile expert. But what in the world can a $.50 washer do to dissipate the alleged "heat buildup" on the control arm. Also, where is the "heat buildup" coming from. The last time I checked, the front suspension parts were forward & below the engine compartment, and in the direct path of cooling airflow under the vehicle. I guess the stresses applied to the suspension parts could cause some amount of warming, but enough to fracture the parts????? Someone out there that knows a lot more about autos than me may be able to verify this as a real potential problem, but it sounds pretty far fetched to me. After all, we are talking about some pretty substantial hunks of steel here.

    The second issue they mentioned about the brackets on the frame failing is much more troubling to me. I don't think I like the idea of a dealer removing parts welded to the frame, and then welding on a new part. That certainly sounds like something best left to the factory in my mind.

    All in all, I am trying to take a very pragmatic approach to this issue. I was extremely disappointed when it happened as I was really enjoying my Trailblazer. However, now that it has happened, I am silently rooting for it to drag on. I can't help but think that the longer this goes on, the bigger the reward at the end to us "loyal" GM customers. I would like to think they would at least offer a substantial loyalty coupon for our next puchase.
  • try2keypuptry2keypup Member Posts: 4
    I've found all of the posts here very helpful, so I thought I would contribute what my dealer just told me.

    The problem discovered was with the lower control arm. Two instances of it separating from the frame have been reported, one with an injury. Due to the severity of the problem and the popularity of SUV's, GM's priority is to protect it's customers while finding a fix as soon as possible. The timeframe for the return of our cars is not slated at approximately 2 weeks.

    The dealers are going to inspect each and every vehicle to see if there is a problem with it's control arm and then regardless, replace it with a new one. I'll post again if I hear anything else.
  • try2keypuptry2keypup Member Posts: 4
    I'm sorry, I meant the fix is NOW slated at approximately 2 weeks.
  • jhtjht Member Posts: 24
    I talked to the folks at the help line GM set up (866-226-6622) for this recall yesterday afternoon, and got the following info:

    -The problem was with the control arm (as reported), and it was a matter of the part failing the spec. As also reported, they had two field failures, neither involving a car in customer hands.

    -They were able to figure it out over the past weekend and start producing and testing corrected components. As of this point, the fixed parts are OK.

    -They are producing more and continuing to test into early next week - as of right now parts for all dealers will be shipped out next Thursday (4/19) by overnight delivery. Most dealerships should have the parts in-hand Friday. As a result, most of the recalled cars should be back in customer hands by early the following week.

    -First priority is on getting the cars already purchased fixed (duh, they're the ones that are costing GM the most money right now). Then they will fix the ones in inventory and re-start production.

    Personally, I hope this fix happens as stated - I really liked my Bravada in the one day I had it before the recall!
  • sostroublesostrouble Member Posts: 65
    I just heard from my dealer that the parts for my Envoy will be in next Friday the 20th of April. I should get my Envoy back the following week. Can't wait. First they wanted to give me a Cavalier, then a Malibu, I complained until they gave me a Durango, it's all they had that would hold 3 teenagers.

    I'll be glad to get rid of this Durango. It's like riding in an old wagon and gas milage is really bad. They won't be happy when they get it back. It's now covered with hail damage. I hope that GM will cover the damage to this vehicle, since it wouldn't have happened if they hadn't taken mine away. Who would have been responsible if mine would have been damaged by hail on their lot? Anybody have any ideas on how to get them to pay for the damage?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    What can we say--it's Friday the 13th.

    Sylvia "Talk to the Hosts Part Three" Apr 12, 2001 8:25pm

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    In one of the posts, the author appears to believe that the component is a cast component. It is not, it is stamped steel with two halves: top and bottom welded together like a clamshell to create a very rigid structure.

    The control arm is very beefy - much more than the previous Blazers, but the hinge part where it gets connected to the frame (via a pivot pin and lock nuts) is not double walled and not as beefy. It is a stamped part of the top half which is bent 90 degrees from the horizontal plane of the control arm. This part is not so beefy; the hole where the pviot pin and bearing busing goes through is quite large because of the diameter of the pivot pin, leaving the surrounding steel being not so wide. If anything, this is the weak part. However, with the limited motion of the arm (15-20 degrees of rotation when the wheel traverses it's full travel) and the motion being limited to only when the suspension actually absorbs shocks, this isn't a great source of heat.

    The heat stresses being discussed are with regards to friction generated heat, not engine or exhaust heat. If the busings/bearings were not proper, they may have resulted in more localized friction and heat than the component was intended to endure. However, the steel surrounding the mounting holes on the control arm are not so thick and GM should probably re-specify this thickness.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    Article about Trailblazer at suv.com, talks about a 5.0L I6 engine that shares the same architecture as the 4.2L I6 in the TB/Envoy/Bravada. This engine puts out 600hp @7000rpm and some 450 lb-ft of torque at 6000rpm.

    Imagine this engine architecture from 4.2L to 5.0L inline 6 covering a wide range of GM vehicles, providing power and torque that is unmatched by the competition for a given class, while offering fuel economy of a 6 Cylinder when that power is not being used. This engine could be a real eyeopener for the industry.
  • joycec2joycec2 Member Posts: 3
    There must be some truth to all the rumors of an imminent fix to these vehicles. I just saw a commercial for the Trailblazer on the NBC Evening News.
  • trek1420btrek1420b Member Posts: 32
    I too heard from GM today after calling them that the fix will be shipped out April 19th. They did not know how quickly it would ship so I was glad to hear jht say it will be overnight. I was also told the problem was the part not made to spec, and there was not a need to redesign the part. Good news if you ask me.

    Does anyone know how difficult replacing this part will be? What should we do to get compensated for all this? It will probably be 2 1/2 or 3 weeks without our vehichles depending on how quickly the dealers get the parts and makes the repairs. I feel something is in order and not just a car wash and full tank of gas as Ford is doing with the lesser problem on the 2002 Explorer. Besides, my TB was clean and full of gas when I took it in. I really would like an extended warranty. Let's face, we are certainly going to have "some concern with vehicle control" (as GM stated) at times after the fix wondering if the problem really is corrected.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    The control arm attaches to the front shock absorber and coil spring which need to be removed. The steering knuckle which holds the front disk and brake caliper is connected at it's bottom to the lower control arm. For AWD models, the front drive shaft connects to the steering knuckle via a CV joint which needs to be removed. Most of the work would be in removing the steering knuckle and shock/coil-spring assembly. Then removing the pivot pin and bushings would free the control arm.

    They may have a procedure to compress the coil spring and shock assembly, disconnect the lower point of the steering knuckle, and then remove the control arm without taking apart the front rotor/brake/steering-knuckle assembly. If they need to dissasemble this, it is a lot of work and many things can go wrong.
  • ralforalfo Member Posts: 36
    I'm really glad to hear from all of you that the fix will be shipping out soon. My dealer wasn't called me at all!! Does every dealer have the equipment needed to make the repair? I have doubts now about this. Removing the suspension assembly is a major deal. How do we know that this won't lead to other problems as well as rattles & thumps.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Did you guys see the post from rsholland about the trailblazer requiring trailer brakes if towing above 1000 lbs? Seems kind of strange to me. Can any of you elaborate if you still have your owner's manuals.
  • jhockadayjhockaday Member Posts: 8
    I purchased a new Bravada yesterday. Black with all available options. I was told that the SUV had already been fixed. They are suppose to deliver it on Monday or Tuesday April 16/17. If the Fix is not in yet then they told me a big lie. This was from the Raleigh NC dealership. Deal was $300 over invoice. We did the zero down, no interest till 2002 deal. If this SUV has not really been fixed as they say I may cancel.
  • md9360md9360 Member Posts: 4
    Anybody have any comments about the following items:
    1. the horsepower rating of the engine. I saw something that said the horsepower "at the wheels" was 208, not 270. There was a comment in in Consumer Digest that said that the engine did not feel as potent as rating implied. I test drove an Envoy and it did feel fast enough, comparable with a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder.
    2. The bumpers. I saw a comment on this and microsoft carpoint on how cheap they were. I went by a dealer to check this and they do feel cheap. Does anybody know how they hold up in those five mile per hour crash tests.
    3. The fit and finish. Some of the alignments between panels seems a little off on the Envoys / Trailblazers I've checked out. Any comments.
  • joycec2joycec2 Member Posts: 3
    I have the brochure in front of me, and it clearly states you must have trailer brakes if the trailer weight is greater than 1000#. That being said, I can't swear to it, but I seriously doubt you could even find a trailer intended to carry up to 1500-2000# that even has brakes. Anything over that weight, it is just good practice to have brakes even though most people probably don't even consider trailer brakes until they get over 3000# (which is a mistake).

    You would probably find that same statement in the brochures of every SUV on the market. I am sure legal departments edit those brochures before they are published.

    Don't get me wrong, I would never encourage someone to ignore a safety warning in a published brochure. However, I have (had) a new Trailblazer, and if you were pulling a 1500# trailer behind you, you wouldn't even know it was there without looking in the rearview mirror.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    They lied to you.
  • ralforalfo Member Posts: 36
    I just received a call this morning from my dealer that they are expected to receive the parts mid to late next week, and I should be seeing the truck the following week. He mentioned that the fix is replacing a braket and not the actual control arm. Then again this is coming from a sales person.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    GM Customer Service said they have been notified by GM that new control arms are in production to supply fixes first to the 6000 vehicles sold, then to retrofit those at dealers and those in the GM factory lots, and then to fire up production again. The date for shipping these new parts was not known, but that they were replacing the control arms. They also said that the control arms in some existing vehicles were not to design spec, although they didn't know (or have a way to determine) exactly which vehicles were affected. Therefore, all vehicles would get their parts replaced.

    I would guess that the design was marginal such that variations in manufacturing could result in components that don't meet the design specifications. They probably modified the control arm to thicken up the steel at the hinge part of the control arm to build-in some margin of safety so that such a problem doesn't occur again in the future. Looking at the arm, the hinge does not appear to be as beefy as the rest of the arm.
  • iukstuiukstu Member Posts: 12
    sostrouble -

    I went in to pay my insurance on my Bravada (that I don't even have) and was told that I still have to carry full coverage because of the lein. They said that if the lein holder agreed, then I could drop to only comp. I also asked them about insurance on the rental since Enterprise tried to sell me a policy for $4+ a day, which I turned down! My agent said that my insurance extends to any rental car that I drive, and that they just try to sell you those to make extra money. I'm sure that they are getting more than $30 a day out of GM for my rental...they delivered a new Cadillac to me. NICE RIDE!

    My husband went over to the dealership yesterday and really didn't learn much, other than the part was going to be supplied to owners first. Well duh...those are the ones costing GM right now. The dealer said that they were not even suppose to drive them. Once they are off of the flatbeds, they are not to even be started. I intend to check very carefully for scratches and dings when I get my vehicle back. It has been sitting in a back lot, in all of the elements. Who knows how it will be transported into the garage! My husband mentioned that he read about it in the paper before we were even notified and the dealer just kept on talking and never acknowledged the statement. Nobody wants to admit doing anything wrong!!
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    With the 5.0L version of the I6 capable of 600hp and 475 lb-ft of torque (probably doesn't meed clean air standards and uses hi-octane fule), one would believe that the 4.2L I6 could have been tuned to much more than the 270/275 that they spec. I believe their marketing decided that MPG, ULEV, and Unleaded Fuel were important considerations for this application. With these constraints, they decided to limit to 270/275. Plus, they probably only tested the vehicles and drive train to these power/torque levels prior to their introduction and can't market anything higher at the moment.

    I think performance versions of the 4.2L in the future may be tuned above 300hp, although without meeting ULEV and requiring premium fuel. The General is probably holding some back so they can tweak the power levels higher over the lifetime of these vehicles. Not that 270 isn't enough!
  • jhockadayjhockaday Member Posts: 8
    Yesterday (Friday April 13) the top sells guy at Thompson Cadillac-Oldsmobile in Raleigh NC told us that the Bravadas were fixed. They carried us to the back lot were they had three of them. They had not been preped for sell yet. They told us they had been fixed that day. It was right at 5:00 and the shop was closing up as we walked by. We made a deal on a black one that had a sun roof. I had already called around to find one with the roof (very few are out there). They offered to let us drive it but we already tested one before the recall and it was getting late. We cut the deal and did the financing thing (zero interest, no payments, etc.) Because of the holidays they said it would be late Monday before it would be ready. They offered to deliver it to use on Tuesday (April 17) because we live 80 miles away. If the fix has not really been done I am at a loss for words. My wife is going to have a fit if they don't deliver this Bravada on Tuesday.
  • iukstuiukstu Member Posts: 12
    I asked my husband if they had given him any dates when he went to the dealership yesterday. They told him that the parts were being shipped on the 15th and would be at the dealership next week...but not to hold them to this. This was what they "understood". I want my Bravada back!
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    If you don't get the Bravada by the promised day, it is because it wasn't fixed and they have committed fraud (misrepresentation which would result in breach of contract) for which you have a case against the dealer, and you can use the threat of legal action to get more discount on the Bravada. In this case, you would want to seek a legal opinion before broaching the subject with the dealer, and to not discuss it unless you have an attorney present with you. Since you have the sales contract which is dated, you have evidence to back up your story that they misrepresented the status of the vehicle to you.

    If you do get the Bravada by the promised, and you further find out through GM that the fix was not done, then you have an even bigger case against them - wreckless endangerment and fraud and the liabilities by the Dealer is even higher. You would want to be represented by an attorney in this case as well, since the stakes would be very high. In either case, you have the chance to be compensated in case or in the form of a big discount on the Bravada. I am not suggesting that one should use the legal system for personal gain, but that legal systems are put in place to ensure that businesses operate honestly and that consumers don't get hurt. This is the only way for Darwinism to play it's course in business.

    If the Bravada is fixed according to GM requirements, and everything is on the up and up, then you are the proud owners of a new Bravada and will be the only one on the road for a time until the others start getting fixed.

    It's a win-win-win situation.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    The 4.2L is capable of 300hp now, but it would have less low end torque, and since it is in a truck there would be no benefit.

    This is why Cadilac puts a much steeper gear in their cars equipped with the 300 hp Northstar than the ones with 275 hp. The 275 hp version has more low end torque.
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    I went to my dealer to chat with the service manager, he was off today, anyway, I ran into the guy that sold me the Bravada -the internet sales manager-, he was nice and kind to me. I was looking for my car in the lot, he told that they kept it in the garage, went there and it was just setting. It was a good feeling to find that the car was kept indoors (they did not know that I was going to stop by, unless they read my mind).

    Any way, he does not know when and promised that the best mechanic will be working on it and that it will be like new.
    I hope so.

    -Alan
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    Well, I just got a letter today from GM, the wife just gave it to me, 7 hrs latter, but that is another story for another forum!
    Any way, "under certain circumstances it may be possible for either front lower control arm braket to fracture..." according to the letter, it could happen to "certain 2002 Bravada..." looks like not all of them.
    ANy way, I hope it is the arm's bracket not the bracket that is welded to the body!

    Also, they said that they have been working on it 24/day and that the part is under production and it will be shipped as soon as it is ready over night and that the dealer should give it "top priority", and on and on...

    -Alan
  • mharris6mharris6 Member Posts: 10
    I stopped by Koons Pontiac GMC in tysons corner Va on Friday and was told the parts would be in next week. I am hoping that GM will be offering rebates/extended warranty /both to move Envoys, otherwise I am sure they will sit, sit, sit in the dealers lots due to concerns about other qualtity control items.

    Regarding poor fit of door panels, I ahev noticed that a lot of the rear doors do not seem to fit preoperly? Mostly on the drivers side. If I was buying one of these, I would wait for one built in later months as intial build quality appears questionable. Look out for more recalls.

    When I was kid, the rule was that you never purchased a GM vehicle ion its first year of production. Seems some things never change.
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