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Comments
b4z: have you seen the Onyx Black, it is AWESOME! I have it, it looks rich, sorry, I am not pushing you for a certain color, I just like to talk about my car! makes the waiting easier, oh man, can't wait.
-Alan
Nothing looks better than a black car when it is clean. The good thing about the pewter is that it doesn't show dirt, and because it is a metallic paint i imagine that it looks incredible with a high quality glaze and wax on it.
The more i look at the bravada the more i think it is the better of the triplets. I priced the trailblazer the other day and the bravada is the better deal, especially due to the incredibly cheap looking plastic used in the trailblazer.
The transition from the headlights to the hood shows to much of a gap and allows you to see the top of the headlight bezel and up under the hood.
Door gaps are too large, especially on the backdoor and the tailgate. Some uneven fit going on there.
Hood fender gap was absolutely straight on one side, but the driver side actually was tighter in the center and wider at the headlights. Don't quite know how they accomplished that.
It has been my experience with oldsmobile that as they get farther into production they panel fit gets better.
Felt like there was too much inner fender showing and that the car should sit lower to the ground.
But since it is an SUV i am okay with it.
Most of this was said in the last message. I went through the LT/LTZ comparison last week (before I ordered one), and if I remember right, the following are not available on the LT: 2 tone paint (includes body cladding, but you can't get it yet on the LTZ anyway), turn signals in the outside mirrors, rainsense wipers, 17" wheels, and heated seats (I think).
Too bad about the leather. I have known others that prefer cloth to leather.
FYI: You should check out the kbb.com site for info on new vehicles...easy to use and pretty accurate.
pre-emptive recall comes just as the new vehicles are heading to showrooms. We all know this already.
It's not known how many, if any, Canadian vehicles are affected.
Below is an E-mail I received directly from Heather, my contact at GM Canada (unedited):
The suspension safety recall involves certain vehicles built at the General
Motors assembly plant in Moraine, Ohio.
Under certain circumstances it may be possible for the front lower control arm to fracture, resulting in separation of the front lower control arm from the frame. A separation could result in loss of vehicle control and a crash could occur without prior warning.
General Motors has recently learned of this condition and we have dedicated the time since then to determining the extent of the condition and its effect on vehicle performance. We now believe that the best course of action is to communicate with our customers and to help prevent any potential incidents while GM finishes its investigation of the condition. We will address remedying the condition after completing our investigation.
We stopped shipping vehicles from the plant as of Monday, April 2. General Motors will not manufacture any new TrailBlazers until this condition is completely remedied. If your vehicle is already at a dealership, you should know that General Motors has sent dealers a notice that they should not deliver vehicles to customers, due to the existence of a safety defect. The dealers will be notified when General Motors has developed an appropriate repair procedure and when parts become available. At that time, the dealer will repair the vehicle and notify you that the repair has been completed.
If you require further assistance, do not hesitate to e-mail us back at http://www.gmcanada.com.
It seems that Ford did not check for every defect.
They made a big show in the media how they were not going to have any recalls or defects because they checked everything numerous times.
Apparently they never thought to check the rear glass hatch.
The point is no manufacturer is immune from this.
I have been looking at the Envoy as a replacement for my 99 Audi A4 Quattro. Love the car, need more space. Unfortunately for me, my beloved German autobahn cruiser spent the weekend at the dealership. It went in on Friday for a routine service and brake replacement. They casually mentioned that there was also a recall, "not a big deal, probably won't have time for it today, we'll schedule you on the 25th, the tie-rods, really doesn't affect many cars, you've probably been driving for a few months under the recall, not a big deal..." Going to pick up my car at 6pm, I get a call, "Uh, Hi, this is Barrier service and we just wanted to let you know that we had your car up on the lift and it just so happens that YOUR tie rods are affected and loose, the mechanic won't let you drive the car until they are fixed, they might...break" My response, "What would happen if that occured? (Yes, I already knew the answer)" "Well, you would probably lose control of the affect front wheel or wheels and they would collapse under the car causing you to get in an accident" "Great, I want a rental car upgrade..." "No problem..."
So, moral of the story, I really wish Audi had the same attention to safety as they proclaim and GM seems to exhibit.
I definitely will be looking harder at the Envoy now.
Kirk
I am currently looking to replace my bronze mist intrigue with a 2001 intrigue. There are significant incentives on these vehicles now and i will be able to get about $5200 in discounts due to the olds loyalty bonus.
But what color? The sterling silver requires a grey interior. I already have bronze mist. Black is hard to take care of and shows every blemish.
White is kind of bland, but is otherwise okay.
The forest green looks almost black and seems to be falling from favor. Sandstone is a nothing color. This leaves me with the indigo blue.
It too is very close to black. It will probably show dirt. It doesn't have enough blue in it to really stand out. Maybe if it were a shade or two lighter it might be better.
Having said that, i think it will probably be the blue with a neutral leather interior. I will keep the car a long time, so i am not concerned with the resale.
After i buy the intrigue i will get the bravada later in the summer. I will not buy blue for the bravada because i think it needs a stronger metallic paint to show off the side lines and styling of the vehicle. Pewter is definitely the color for me on the bravada.
White would not be to bad on this vehicle either.
Long winded post but it is interesting to me how some colors from the same manufacturer look good on one vehicle and not so great on another.
Ok, I called another dealer that I have bought 2 Bravada's from...Straight shooter...Said he believes they have the fix, new part..Will let me know...
Something interesting I noticed yesterday and today:
1) I thought I saw (what I think was) a Trailblazer parked in a lot (not a dealership lot) of a business.
2) I saw (what I think was) a Trailblazer parked in my apartment complex. Unfortunately...it was only there briefly and I could not confirm its identity before it left.
Im wondering if either these people are unaware of the recall...or it was fixed?!?
Anyone have any current info on the recall? Anyone else seeing Trailblazer's being driven?
Kinda confused myself...but I have only seen two...and they were at a distant...perhaps I am confusing some of the smaller Tahoe's with the Trailblazer...but I dont think so. But, I can very well be wrong. I don't want to make anyone think I am 100% positive...or that something mysterious is going on. Just wondering if anyone else is catching a glimpse of passing Trailblazers?!?
mmateyak
I don't think thee is any thing mysterious or they are keeping us in the dark, I think they just want to be careful.
doc35: I feel a lot better after reading your post, makes GM really shines!
-Alan
They got me permission to rent a new Jeep Grand Cherokee from Enterprise when my dealer repeatedly tried to lowball me into a subcompact and then into a very old rental that was filthy. The dealer initially tried to refuse to deal with Enterprise Rental Cars, but the GM Customer Service people leaned on them (talked to the General Manager of the dealer) and got them to play ball. I asked Customer Service to make sure not to piss off the dealer too much - they have my Bravda, after all.
GM Customer Service says their highest priority is to get those 6K vehicles back on the road so that we can continue advertising for the brand and models as we go on our daily lives. They couldn't afford the publicity that owners give to their cars for free. This makes me believe that parts will go to fix the 6K vehicles before they light up the factory again, and then they'll start to deal with those vehicles sitting in their inventory parking lot.
I like the Bravada better than the Jeep.
Our salesman new me and always treated me with respect. I have purchased 5 cars from him in the last few years.
I don't think bshap tried to negotiate a purchase with the Chevy dealer, he was looking for information and was treated poorly.
http://forums.vmag.com/suvenvoy0199/
Also, keep in mind that these vehicles (well my research is pretty much limited to the Trailblazer) have been tested hard in everything from long distance luxury drives to intense Baja offroad competitions...and over the course of 1000s and 1000s of miles.
The vehicles that were tested were able to handle all that rugged offroading and long distance driving...so this can't be a DESIGN flaw. They just need to isolate the source of the manufacturing flaw and fix it. I feel the fix will be permanent and duplicate that of their design (original) which was durable throughout the testing procedures before each model was released.
What confuses me is...if GM has a handle on a faulty vehicle and also has a handle on a fully functional and depenedable BETA/test vehicle that withstood the testing procedures....how hard can it be to discover/manufacture a fix??!?!?
Seems quite odd to me.
mmateyak
I called GM for an update early in the day today, they were nice, but no estimate on when the fix will be available, however, near the end of the call I was told that "rumor has it that the dealers should have the part by weeks end"! - Now, that is coming from a GM rep!
Incedently, in today's New York Times, there were a full page ad by GM (the NY auto show starts tomorrow 4/13 to 22) featuring 4 pics of 4 trucks,
the one on the top 1/3 of the page was a TB, the 3 on the bottom where Envoy, an SUV that I could not tell and the 3ed was the Bravada. GM DID NOT list or mention the trucks in name but said in the ad something like "come and see the all new line for 2002 before they hit the streets" - Hum!!! may be they will wait tell the show is over and then announce when it will be fixed.
-Alan
The second issue they mentioned about the brackets on the frame failing is much more troubling to me. I don't think I like the idea of a dealer removing parts welded to the frame, and then welding on a new part. That certainly sounds like something best left to the factory in my mind.
All in all, I am trying to take a very pragmatic approach to this issue. I was extremely disappointed when it happened as I was really enjoying my Trailblazer. However, now that it has happened, I am silently rooting for it to drag on. I can't help but think that the longer this goes on, the bigger the reward at the end to us "loyal" GM customers. I would like to think they would at least offer a substantial loyalty coupon for our next puchase.
The problem discovered was with the lower control arm. Two instances of it separating from the frame have been reported, one with an injury. Due to the severity of the problem and the popularity of SUV's, GM's priority is to protect it's customers while finding a fix as soon as possible. The timeframe for the return of our cars is not slated at approximately 2 weeks.
The dealers are going to inspect each and every vehicle to see if there is a problem with it's control arm and then regardless, replace it with a new one. I'll post again if I hear anything else.
-The problem was with the control arm (as reported), and it was a matter of the part failing the spec. As also reported, they had two field failures, neither involving a car in customer hands.
-They were able to figure it out over the past weekend and start producing and testing corrected components. As of this point, the fixed parts are OK.
-They are producing more and continuing to test into early next week - as of right now parts for all dealers will be shipped out next Thursday (4/19) by overnight delivery. Most dealerships should have the parts in-hand Friday. As a result, most of the recalled cars should be back in customer hands by early the following week.
-First priority is on getting the cars already purchased fixed (duh, they're the ones that are costing GM the most money right now). Then they will fix the ones in inventory and re-start production.
Personally, I hope this fix happens as stated - I really liked my Bravada in the one day I had it before the recall!
I'll be glad to get rid of this Durango. It's like riding in an old wagon and gas milage is really bad. They won't be happy when they get it back. It's now covered with hail damage. I hope that GM will cover the damage to this vehicle, since it wouldn't have happened if they hadn't taken mine away. Who would have been responsible if mine would have been damaged by hail on their lot? Anybody have any ideas on how to get them to pay for the damage?
Sylvia "Talk to the Hosts Part Three" Apr 12, 2001 8:25pm
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
The control arm is very beefy - much more than the previous Blazers, but the hinge part where it gets connected to the frame (via a pivot pin and lock nuts) is not double walled and not as beefy. It is a stamped part of the top half which is bent 90 degrees from the horizontal plane of the control arm. This part is not so beefy; the hole where the pviot pin and bearing busing goes through is quite large because of the diameter of the pivot pin, leaving the surrounding steel being not so wide. If anything, this is the weak part. However, with the limited motion of the arm (15-20 degrees of rotation when the wheel traverses it's full travel) and the motion being limited to only when the suspension actually absorbs shocks, this isn't a great source of heat.
The heat stresses being discussed are with regards to friction generated heat, not engine or exhaust heat. If the busings/bearings were not proper, they may have resulted in more localized friction and heat than the component was intended to endure. However, the steel surrounding the mounting holes on the control arm are not so thick and GM should probably re-specify this thickness.
Imagine this engine architecture from 4.2L to 5.0L inline 6 covering a wide range of GM vehicles, providing power and torque that is unmatched by the competition for a given class, while offering fuel economy of a 6 Cylinder when that power is not being used. This engine could be a real eyeopener for the industry.
Does anyone know how difficult replacing this part will be? What should we do to get compensated for all this? It will probably be 2 1/2 or 3 weeks without our vehichles depending on how quickly the dealers get the parts and makes the repairs. I feel something is in order and not just a car wash and full tank of gas as Ford is doing with the lesser problem on the 2002 Explorer. Besides, my TB was clean and full of gas when I took it in. I really would like an extended warranty. Let's face, we are certainly going to have "some concern with vehicle control" (as GM stated) at times after the fix wondering if the problem really is corrected.
They may have a procedure to compress the coil spring and shock assembly, disconnect the lower point of the steering knuckle, and then remove the control arm without taking apart the front rotor/brake/steering-knuckle assembly. If they need to dissasemble this, it is a lot of work and many things can go wrong.
1. the horsepower rating of the engine. I saw something that said the horsepower "at the wheels" was 208, not 270. There was a comment in in Consumer Digest that said that the engine did not feel as potent as rating implied. I test drove an Envoy and it did feel fast enough, comparable with a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder.
2. The bumpers. I saw a comment on this and microsoft carpoint on how cheap they were. I went by a dealer to check this and they do feel cheap. Does anybody know how they hold up in those five mile per hour crash tests.
3. The fit and finish. Some of the alignments between panels seems a little off on the Envoys / Trailblazers I've checked out. Any comments.
You would probably find that same statement in the brochures of every SUV on the market. I am sure legal departments edit those brochures before they are published.
Don't get me wrong, I would never encourage someone to ignore a safety warning in a published brochure. However, I have (had) a new Trailblazer, and if you were pulling a 1500# trailer behind you, you wouldn't even know it was there without looking in the rearview mirror.
I would guess that the design was marginal such that variations in manufacturing could result in components that don't meet the design specifications. They probably modified the control arm to thicken up the steel at the hinge part of the control arm to build-in some margin of safety so that such a problem doesn't occur again in the future. Looking at the arm, the hinge does not appear to be as beefy as the rest of the arm.
I went in to pay my insurance on my Bravada (that I don't even have) and was told that I still have to carry full coverage because of the lein. They said that if the lein holder agreed, then I could drop to only comp. I also asked them about insurance on the rental since Enterprise tried to sell me a policy for $4+ a day, which I turned down! My agent said that my insurance extends to any rental car that I drive, and that they just try to sell you those to make extra money. I'm sure that they are getting more than $30 a day out of GM for my rental...they delivered a new Cadillac to me. NICE RIDE!
My husband went over to the dealership yesterday and really didn't learn much, other than the part was going to be supplied to owners first. Well duh...those are the ones costing GM right now. The dealer said that they were not even suppose to drive them. Once they are off of the flatbeds, they are not to even be started. I intend to check very carefully for scratches and dings when I get my vehicle back. It has been sitting in a back lot, in all of the elements. Who knows how it will be transported into the garage! My husband mentioned that he read about it in the paper before we were even notified and the dealer just kept on talking and never acknowledged the statement. Nobody wants to admit doing anything wrong!!
I think performance versions of the 4.2L in the future may be tuned above 300hp, although without meeting ULEV and requiring premium fuel. The General is probably holding some back so they can tweak the power levels higher over the lifetime of these vehicles. Not that 270 isn't enough!
If you do get the Bravada by the promised, and you further find out through GM that the fix was not done, then you have an even bigger case against them - wreckless endangerment and fraud and the liabilities by the Dealer is even higher. You would want to be represented by an attorney in this case as well, since the stakes would be very high. In either case, you have the chance to be compensated in case or in the form of a big discount on the Bravada. I am not suggesting that one should use the legal system for personal gain, but that legal systems are put in place to ensure that businesses operate honestly and that consumers don't get hurt. This is the only way for Darwinism to play it's course in business.
If the Bravada is fixed according to GM requirements, and everything is on the up and up, then you are the proud owners of a new Bravada and will be the only one on the road for a time until the others start getting fixed.
It's a win-win-win situation.
This is why Cadilac puts a much steeper gear in their cars equipped with the 300 hp Northstar than the ones with 275 hp. The 275 hp version has more low end torque.
Any way, he does not know when and promised that the best mechanic will be working on it and that it will be like new.
I hope so.
-Alan
Any way, "under certain circumstances it may be possible for either front lower control arm braket to fracture..." according to the letter, it could happen to "certain 2002 Bravada..." looks like not all of them.
ANy way, I hope it is the arm's bracket not the bracket that is welded to the body!
Also, they said that they have been working on it 24/day and that the part is under production and it will be shipped as soon as it is ready over night and that the dealer should give it "top priority", and on and on...
-Alan
Regarding poor fit of door panels, I ahev noticed that a lot of the rear doors do not seem to fit preoperly? Mostly on the drivers side. If I was buying one of these, I would wait for one built in later months as intial build quality appears questionable. Look out for more recalls.
When I was kid, the rule was that you never purchased a GM vehicle ion its first year of production. Seems some things never change.