Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • beach15beach15 Member Posts: 1,305
    Anyone have a 2002 Envoy SLE 2wd? These new SUV's look really nice with the Envoy being my favorite. I've looked at pricing sites and have found that the Envoy is available at the most discount. Carsdirect.com has them for $300 over invoice and I have seen other dealers advertise all of their cars including the new 2002 Envoys at $300 under invoice. The Trailblazer seems kind of cheapy compared to the other two and while the Bravada is nice with a 5-year warranty, that from end just looks funny. What have any of your experiances with pricing been lately after the recall and all? I think some are blowing it out of proportion but it would be nice if GM could have had/gotten the "fix" parts quicker. Just watching the evening news anymore you can just see the neck-and-neck race Ford and GM are competing in with their new 2002 SUV's.

    Several other boards on Edmund's like the extremely active 300M forum have owners who post the links to pictures of their new rides--just about everyone has photos of their new M's posted somewhere. Why no owners showing off the pictures of their great new GM SUV's here? This simple addition would make this board much more helpful and informative. Post pictures people!!
  • mmateyakmmateyak Member Posts: 15
    My guess as to the reason many owners have not posted links to pictures of their "new rides" is because none of them have had their vehicles long enough to even TAKE a picture...nevermind post one. The recall was very fast...few owners had their vehicles for more than a few weeks MAX...some only a few days.

    Give it time...when they get their vehicles back...on the road...and runnin smoothly...maybe some pictures will come your way! ;)

    mmateyak

    P.S. I got stuck in the woods today...had to call a tow to get me out of some muck/mud...wish I had 4wd...cost me $100!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR I want MY Trailblazer!!!!!!!!
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    Well, this one left me scratching my head:
    I went to the Autoshow in Motion here in Stone Mountain Georgia on April 19. At this event GM brings all of it's vehicles for potential customers to test drive...as well as providing some competitors vehicles. Much to my surprise there was a TB, Envoy and Bravada there for all to test drive through GM's "slalom" course. I commented to the GM rep at the course that GM sure did get those SUV's control arm fixed quickly. He said that that the recal was "cancelled" and that GM had overreacted, that there really wasn't a problem. Sooo....I went home to check the validity of this...certainly can't confirm his statement...was he lying to the customers at this event to save face? Obviously, there would be much irony in inviting 1000's of people to test drive GM vehicles to prove that they are high quality...and then not have them available because of a recall... Sooo...is the vehicle safe without the fix...or not? Can't get a straight answer from the General, that's for sure. WHAT IS UP WITH THIS?
  • r22549r22549 Member Posts: 42
    Sure sounds like a wopper to me...How did the the 3 sisters do in the road test, and who was there competitors..I would suggest they had them fixed before...Thanx...Rod
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    The competitors were the Grand Cherokee, the new Explorer, and Lexus. The Explorer was the smoothest shifting and was nimble on takeoff, I also liked the clean lines of the dash, although the instrumentation was very, very cheap looking, it also sat a little lower than I desired. I drove the Grand Cherokee and couldn't wait to get out of it...you feel like you're sitting in a hole when seated, the vehicle feels like the front tires are crossed when you go around a turn, and the whole vehicle feels cheap...but it looks nice in a parked position. I loved the seating position of the GM SUV's, they all felt like they had a strong suspension going over the course, they felt like trucks (which is a good thing), they weren't very smooth shifting and were relatively loud on hard takeoff, the Bravada had great feeling leather seats. The Lexus felt like a tall car, there wasn't much headroom, it was the smoothest of all, but it felt like a car...and I want a truck-feeling SUV. I believe that if you make an SUV feel like a car, then people will drive it like they are in a car, which is a false sense of security given the higher center of gravity.

    I will be purchasing the TB. I just received a $1000 certificate because of the class action lawsuit against GM's saddle mounted gas tanks in their 73-91 pickup trucks. I can get the GM employee price, and I have the GM card. Sooo...I really HAVE to purchase GM with all those discounts.

    I'm still trying to get someone at GM to tell me why I have to buy OnStar with the sunroof on the TB LS model...it makes no sense...of course that's the GM-way sometimes.
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    Day 18...
  • blefflerbleffler Member Posts: 22
    I'm looking for opinions on the running board option. Those that have them, do you like them? Those that don't, do you wish you did?

    It appears to me it may be an option that is truly cosmetic.
  • blefflerbleffler Member Posts: 22
    Has anyone heard when the DVD option will be available?
  • jeff237jeff237 Member Posts: 38
    The Envoy is lower than previous models, so you really don't need to step on them to enter the SUV. I do very much like the way they look. I read an article that the DVD player will be available mid-year.
  • doc35doc35 Member Posts: 23
    I wonder if you would constantly brush your pant legs against the dirty running boards? That was a problem with the Pathfinder which one of the reviews pointed out. Any opinions on whether the GMC design would lead to this problem or not?

    Also, why doesn't the 2002 Envoy have Xenon HID headlights? The older models do, seems like a step backwards. Anyone have any comments on the ability of the halogen headlights to light up the road and beyond? The claim is that they are "high power halogens" whatever that means. How do they compare to other cars, trucks, etc...

    I realize that not many have had much experience with either of these items, but any comments would be appreciated.
  • rroman8420rroman8420 Member Posts: 23
    Hi all... I just received a call from my dealer saying that my Bravada is fixed. He said they replaced the upper and lower control arms and everything was bolt on. I asked him if he could show me exactly what they did and show me the old parts when I pick up the SUV. He said no problem. They said, mine was the first one to be repaired, maybe not such a good thing... I might have wanted to be their 2nd or 3rd after they get the hang of it. But from what I have learned, this procedure is pretty common front end work, especially in body shops. He also said that the old parts showed no sign of cracking or wear.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    I also drove all three at Stone Mountain this weekend. Regarding the Explorer - I was really looking forward to checking it out because I like the way it looks. I drove it after driving the Bravada and Envoy and WOW - What a cheap piece of junk! Closing the doors sounded worse than I have ever heard a car sound. It sounded like tin! About 80% of the way up, the passenger front window sounded like it was scratching something. The whole thing jiggled and wobbled like a toy. I'm definitely convinced the GMs are built better! I'm getting the Bravada because it is the most car-like - which is what I am looking for.
  • powerlifter167powerlifter167 Member Posts: 1
    One way to get your rates lower is to use a larger deductible. I saw one post that said they were using a 100 and 0 dec. I suggest you change it to 500.

    Why? This will make a pretty big difference in your 6 month rate, Also any little finder binder costing less than 500 you wouldn't want to report to your ins. company anyway because it would just cause your rates to go up.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    Did you go to pick up the Bravada, or is the dealer delivering it? I don't like the idea of putting it onto a flatbed and taking risk on damage in transit, plus I would want to see the vehicle before signing off on it (to check for damage during storage and when the work was done).
  • rroman8420rroman8420 Member Posts: 23
    I will pick it up, probably tomorrow. The dealer is about 40 miles away and we wanted to talk to them and see the parts anyway. They never offered to deliver it, but I prefer to go there myself!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Oldsmobile Sets a Farewell Tour Schedule

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  • hwj39hwj39 Member Posts: 7
    Wow, I was actually very seriously considering purchase of the Bravada. However, after reading most of the posts, I really doubt the wisdom of that now. Words like Fraud, Reckless Endangerment, Lemon Laws, Liars, Sleazy, Buybacks, Class Action Lawsuits, and Redemption Allowances tell me that maybe you don't have to be a Lawyer to buy G.M. but it sure would help. Hope all you that have purchased them get them back soon, and they last a million miles. I'm just too conservative, will stick with the Acura.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    GM Customer Service read me the recall bulletin which says that the estimated time to do the recall work is 1hr 7min. Not a lot of screwing up can be done in that time. It doesn't look like a lot of things need to be done to get the parts replaced. Remember, there are two wheels, and they said that the time to do the entire recall was 1hr 7min.

    They also said that the bulletin calls for the cast metal bracket attached to the frame AND the lower control arm to be replaced; both these components in less than an hour and a half. They must be designed to be readily serviced, and I think that they don't dissasemble the front wheel assembly (which would be very involved with CV joint and front drive shaft, brake caliper, brake disc, front wheel bearings, steering linkage, front coil spring, and front shocks), and then have to do wheel alignment.

    I do believe they will need to do a front end alignment because the lower control arm gets changed as do the mounting bracket. These would cause variations in the camber, caster and the front/rear wheel position relative to the original alignment.

    They also stated that phase I is recall work, get cars back on the road, ship existing vehicles to dealers, and fire up manufacturing again. During Phase II, they will evaluate various compensation plans such as extension of warrantees, On-star, lease payments, and financing terms. They haven't made any decisions at this point.
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    Day 19......and the beat goes on.

    I'm sure I am missing something obvious here, but the factory has been back in production (priority three according to GM) since 4/19. Yet only 2 current owners (priority one according to GM) have come on this board stating their vehicles had been repaired. My dealer called last Wednesday saying they would let me know "the minute" they received parts, and I haven't heard a peep from them yet.

    Are there any more current owners out there that have been fortunate enough to get their vehicles back?

    p.s. I'm just trying to get things stirred up a bit, because I'm the same one who has been saying all along I hope they keep the thing another week so I can have some "lemon law leverage". Wow, that was pretty alliterative, wasn't it?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A most alliterative and illustrative post. Mayhaps ye need to check-out Bad car Haiku or it's evil twin, Car limericks while you wait for GM.

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    Host
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  • ralforalfo Member Posts: 36
    My Dealer called today that they expect to receive the parts this Friday. They received detailed installation instructions and they also mentioned that it will take about 1 hour and that the fix entails removing three bolts.

    They are going to try the fix on one of the Envoys in the lot prior to replying the ones on the trucks that were sold, just to make sure all goes well.

    By the way, I passed by on Sunday to check on the truck in the lot (they are closed) and noticed that they had parked all the extra Envoys they had for sale in the back of the building, It seems like they aren't pushing it. It is located in central NJ.
  • mmateyakmmateyak Member Posts: 15
    Alot of you are questioning WHY some dealers have parts and others dont.

    My guess would be that some states are serviced first...just as some states receive cars before others. The three main states as far as I know are Florida, Texas and California...simply because they are the three biggest and most populated...thus the most demand. If you live somewhere in outback Montana (beautiful state btw)...dont expect to be serviced first...I just dont think it works that way.

    Again, this is all my guess...not fact...could be the reason why some are getting cars back before others...

    mmateyak
  • blefflerbleffler Member Posts: 22
    I just received an email from Kay Jarboe. She was kind enough to mention that the DVD Player option goes into production in August and should be able to be ordered in July.
  • trek1420btrek1420b Member Posts: 32
    Just saw an ad today,Monday, for an area Olds dealer stating they had "2002 Bravadas in stock and ready for delivery." I understand not all dealers will get the parts at exactly the same time and have all 6000 customer vehicles ready at the same time. Some dealers will get their inventory fixed before others. However, I find it very annoying to see a dealer already advertising in the paper.

    mmateyak. Regarding where the parts are going first. When the SUV's were first coming out I had read that the Chicago area was receving the first batch of Trailblazers because Chicago is such a dominant market for the Blazer. You would think we would get the parts first too, but who really knows.

    I have such a weird feeling over this whole thing. My mother just happened to take a picture of me and my TB on one of the 5 days I actually had it. She gave me the picture this last weekend and I said, "Oh yeah, that's what it looks like! I wondered where my $31,000+ went!"
    I will probaby feeler even weirder when I get it back. My new car enthusiasm is long gone, probably to be replaced by concern and trepidation as I drive it down the highway at any kind of speed, like over 40mph.

    Someone asked earlier if the rear windows of the TB went all the way down. I don't know since I didn't have it long enough to notice or try.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Don't read too much into some of the posts. People are wanting their trucks back and that is understandable. GM seems to have taken extreme precaution with the recall and some people don't agree with it. Sure the Acura is a nice SUV for the city, but if you plan to do any off roading or towing, Bravada or Envoy is your choice.
  • rroman8420rroman8420 Member Posts: 23
    Does anyone have a copy of the actual service bulletin for the 2002 Trailblazer/Envoy/Bravada control arm replacement. If so I would like to get a copy. You can post it somewhere and give me the address or fax it to me at: 707-924-3985. My dealer told me it took about 2 hours to do the full repair.
  • mmateyakmmateyak Member Posts: 15
    Basically, the only reason I was thinking that Florida, Texas, and California would get parts first is because when I called GM...they said those are the three most dominant markets for new vehicles.

    I was interested in checking out the new Avalanche (before I saw the TB)...and they said sometime in May...only those three states would have them...because they always get shipped to them first. After that...the rest of the states would start to get some here and there...with mass production to all states sometime in the Fall.

    So that was my reasoning...really guessing..as to why some people were getting theirs back while others havent heard a thing from their dealers.

    I havent purchased a TB yet...Im gonna sit and wait until everyone gets theirs back and see how the feel about them...or if other probs come up. I sure dont want to be in the position you all are in...I feel for all of ya!

    mmateyak
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    The rear windows on my Bravada do go all the way down. This is something that I check for because it is awkward when it doesn't (like on the Grand Cherokee that I am renting). Because the rear windows are shared among the trio (rear door is part of the 30% common sheet metal), I would guess that the Trailblazer's rear windows go all the way down as well. It is a nice touch, since many other competing products stop with 25-30% of the glass still up.
  • quincyboquincybo Member Posts: 1
    At the end of March, I won a 2002 GMC Envoy. I signed the paperwork and drove it home on March 31 and it was promptly picked up April 4. The dealer said I would be given a rental of equal value and all that, but Enterprise said they only allowed enough money for a Grand Am. Well, I already had one of those and didn't see the point in playing games with the dealer to get the upgrade so I never took the rental and have been driving my 2nd car instead. No one from the dealership called me until this past weekend, they called basically to let me know I wasn't forgotten but couldn't tell me when I would get the car back.
    Then, yesterday at work I get a call from someone from the dealership (not a service person). The first thing he asks me is "How do you like driving your new Envoy?" I couldn't believe it. He proceeded to tell me that on the day I took possession of the vehicle I should have paid state tax. Didn't seem clear on what kind of tax (sales, gift, etc) but said he's being pressured by "them" to settle the tax and that this is holding up my registration and title. All I was asked to pay on the day I picked it up was Registration/Title Fee and Documentary Fee. I knew I would have to pay tax at some point but when I told the guy that when they fixed the Envoy, I would give them their tax money. He proceeded to blow up at me over the phone and say that it wasn't acceptable. Tax had nothing to do with the recall and that it couldn't wait. I was so fired up I told him I would call him in a few days.
    I live in NJ and don't have any idea on how I should proceed from here. From what I can tell, they shouldn't have let the car off the lot without taxes paid. I'm not trying to get out of paying the taxes but not before I can drive the car again. Am I being unreasonable?
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    OK, first off, I am not trying to take advantage of the situation; however not being able to know when I am getting my Bravada back is getting me mad to say the least.

    I was just on the phone with the NJ, Division Of Consumer Affairs, Lemon Law unit. According to them, I do have a "case" - based on NJ law, there are few conditions, one of them is "The vehicle is out of operation for 20 or more calendar day, and the nonconformity still exists".

    I love the car, I have no intention of getting rid of it. But, I just want to leverage the situation. Not because I am a "user" or whatever, but simply, I am mad as hell, not because of the recall but because of the length of time and not knowing exactly when I will get it back. Others in NJ got their's back.

    Any ideas. Thanks

    -Alan
  • sostroublesostrouble Member Posts: 65
    quincybo: I told my dealer that I would not pay the sales tax until I get my Envoy back, because the Dept of Rev. in MO said that if for some reason I cancelled the sale, I would not get the sales tax back!! But I would have penalties and fines for not paying within the 30 days. The dealer has agreed to pay the penalties and fines if it goes past that date. It sure is getting close.

    My dealer called me yesterday. He told me he had parts for one side in, but would not start on the Envoy until all the parts were in. So I'm still waiting. He also said that it would take approximately 4 hours to repair.
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    OK, first off, I am not trying to take advantage of the situation; however not being able to know when I am getting my Bravada back is getting me mad to say the least.

    I was just on the phone with the NJ, Division Of Consumer Affairs, Lemon Law unit. According to them, I do have a "case" - based on NJ law, there are few conditions, one of them is "The vehicle is out of operation for 20 or more calendar day, and the nonconformity still exists".

    I love the car, I have no intention of getting rid of it. But, I just want to leverage the situation. Not because I am a "user" or whatever, but simply, I am mad as hell, not because of the recall but because of the length of time and not knowing exactly when I will get it back. Others in NJ got their's back.

    Any ideas. Thanks

    -Alan
  • girk_monstergirk_monster Member Posts: 4
    What dealership did you buys yours from in KC??? Mine has been eerily silent RE: parts availability even though I called late Friday afternoon...

    We, the poor owners of these vehicles, MUST unite somehow in order to put any pressure at all on GM to compensate us for the horrible inconvenience. I had mine for 35 days, and had really grown accustomed to its amenities! I am paying car insurance as if I was driving it, etc. Not to mention the three hours time lost from work the day they took it. If there's an incentive offered to new purchasers, we damn well BETTER be given the same treatment, at the very least!
  • lns1lns1 Member Posts: 6
    I ordered my Envoy three short days prior to the recall. My Central New Jersey Dealer (Malouf) has my thousand dollar deposit and is not returning my phone calls. I also have since found out that the tan leather interior that I ordered isn't even available yet. Who knows when I'm getting my Envoy, but I'm sure that it's going to be a lot longer than the 8-10 weeks I was quoted.

    I wonder if I'm going to miss out on some sort of post-recall incentive designed to draw buyers back into the showrooms?

    Luckily, my old Ford Explorer is working just fine for now, even with 122K miles. Anybody want to rent it from me while you're waiting for yours to return from GM Quarantine?
  • babramsbabrams Member Posts: 8
    Just received a call that my Envoy is ready. Can't wait to see my baby again. (I'm in LA.)
  • tjay1911tjay1911 Member Posts: 10
    Does anyone know why Edmunds doesn't have a TMV price for the Envoy? I thought maybe it's because it's so new but I checked the price of a 2002 Explorer and there is a TMV price.
  • sostroublesostrouble Member Posts: 65
    girk_monster: I live in St. Louis. Where in MO are you? I talked to the dealer again today, the other half is not in yet.

    I only had mine for 4 days when they took it back, but in the short time it was great. It was fun watching other drivers stare at it. In fact, while sitting at a stop sign a car and truck ran into each other while trying to figure out what it was. At least they didn't hit me. When I was driving my Envoy, I was always getting stopped or finding people looking it over in parking lots, so I handed out business cards for the dealership. Maybe that's why their so cooperative. Needless to say, no business cards have been handed out since they took it back.
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    Day 20..............

    mmateyak...I can unequivocably put to rest any speculation that Florida will be one of the first 3 states to get replacement parts!!

    alani...I think you and I are of the same mind. I have filed my initial lemon law notice with GM & the Florida AG's office, but I don't want to get rid of my truck. I loved it for the week and a half I had it, but we have to get GM's attention somehow. It confounds me as to why they think they can keep us in the dark, and essentially ignore us, and think we will just accept it.

    I have never felt anyone owes me something for nothing, but GM has managed to really tick me off over this debacle. I am convinced if we do not all stay on their butts, they will let us walk away with a carwash, and a tank of gas. The interesting thing is I would never even have gotten excited about this if they had not outright lied to us. I have said this in several posts, and am probably boring a lot of folks with it, but.....

    1. GM said that the 6000 owners would get the first replacement parts. Very few have them!!!

    2. GM said that second priority was dealers with unsold cars. Numerous sitings of vehicles for sale at dealerships!!!

    3. GM said start up of Moraine, OH plant was third priority. Plant went back into production 4/19!!!

    I am sorry if I keep repeating this, but I feel it is their most egregious offense. If they hadn't so blatantly lied, I would never be honing my two-fingered typing skills so frequently.
  • babramsbabrams Member Posts: 8
    I have a 2002 Envoy, just picked it up today from the recall. The headliner around the sunroof is held to the top with velcro and mines doesn't stay securley fasten to the top. Does anyone else have that problem? If I ride with the sunroof open, the wind causes the headliner to vibrate. That was one of the reasons I first brought it back to the dealer. They put some more velcro and it stays secure longer, but it still eventually come loose.

    You know the story from the dealer. They try and convience you that's how it is made, then he said it might be a design defect. I'm still not satisfied with it and GM will hear from me.
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    As I indicated above, today is the lemonade day in NJ -20 days out of service-.
    I just got a call from GM (8:12 pm) - the guy was sooooo nice, kept apologizing and saying sorry so many times that I felt sorry for him - stupid me!-. any way, here is the deal:
    1- for 2 years / 24000 mile I will get a free maintainance (oil, filter, tire rotation, etc...)
    2- the Onstar on the Bravada will be extended for additional 3 month
    3- my dealer should get the part by this Fri (when I asked if that date is for my dealer or just a fail safe date, he did not know, he was just given that date by the general)

    He explained exactly what the problem is, what are the replacement pieces will be -bracket- and that no welding is involved, and when done, a wheel alignment will be performed.

    I am happy with the deal - unless I am very modest guy and that the free maintenance/Onstar thing is just a lollypop that pleases me. Hay, that is not a bad deal, I'll take it.

    -Alan
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Noticed the local lot had their in-stock Envoy's back at the front after 3 weeks of hiding them in the back. I guess they must be ready to go again.
  • debbin67debbin67 Member Posts: 35
    I can't believe that you will settle for that! Maintainance for 2 years on a brand new truck is squat. 8 oil changes @$20.00 doesn't seem like much compensation to me! And On-star for an additional 3 months! I could care less about the on-star! Invasion on privacy if you ask me. I could have done without it personally. I don't really have a clue what I think is fair compensation, but, my first car payment is due now and I am going to have to pay for a car I haven't even driven 2 weeks! I think they can and should do better than that! I was surprised to see that it was you that wrote that, because you have been one of the few that I thought would fight tooth and nail over this! Please respond!
  • debbin67debbin67 Member Posts: 35
    And just a follow up. I am in Chicago, not that I think it matters much, but the latest information my dealer had was that they were in the process of manufacturing the part! Didn't sound like my parts were anywhere near being delivered. That doesn't mean that they can not arrive tomorrow, however, I bet I don't see my truck for another 2 weeks! Illinois lemon law states out of service for 30 BUSINESS days. Lucky for GM, that gives them almost an extra 2 weeks! Week 3 and the saga continues....................................
  • glock40glock40 Member Posts: 8
    Hey all. I submitted my lemon law notice today to GM. 20 days is up. My dealership has not given me date for the parts yet. Alan who did you speak to get those perks GM or your dealership. Where from jersey are you located. I bought the first envoy from my dealership. They do not want to here the word repurchase. They don't know what they are going to do for me yet. I want out of the vehicle. I also had a leaking rear window coming in from the third brake light and getting past the weatherstripping. Be on the look out for this design flaw. I also glad to see that I am not the only person who was treated poorly in this situation. GM has thumbs down on this campaign and customer service. Any body want to buy my "lemon" I want out.
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    I posted less than 1 minute after I got the call, I think I waited so long! absluotly this is not an excuse. I think you are right, I wanted to fight, I even called them early in the day, tolled them about the NJ lemon, they just did not care, I was told to do what I want and that customer service does not handle the subject.

    I am making payments too (may be not right away) but at least I am paying for insurance.

    My only option is not to pick up the car, then what, the dealer and GM will stop paying for the rental, I can't afford the cost or being without a car.

    I wanted to use the law as a leverage, I like the car a lot and indeed want to keep it. The fight will not be easy at least on the level of one individual.

    I think we all should get our cars back to avoid paying for rentals off our own money, then we should get together and file a class action suit or something.

    OK, please offer an advice as what to do - yes, I am modest, total maintainance cost over 2 years is just $200 and $25 for Onstar - that is nothing comparing the inconvenience, the frustration, etc...

    All, offer ideas or thoughts on the subject please.

    glock40: you and I knew what we were getting into as far as a 1st year model, it is not an excuse for GM but this is fact

    -Alan
  • amdpeamdpe Member Posts: 1
    I am supposed to pick up my vehicle tomorrow in PA and am wondering what to ask the dealer for as restitution. Should I call GM directly to see what I can get? Does anyone think there will be a class action suit? A car wash does not cut it for me! Does anyone know if this will be a case by case issue or will GM provide a across the board compensation for all affected customers?
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    The legal process is always in 3 phases - 1) to determine if there was wrongdoing on the part of the defendant that harmed the plaintiffs, and 2) to determine the extent of the harm and 3) what the remedy is (restitution to the plaintiffs) in considering the costs the defendant already has incurred or paid.

    The question to ask is: what wrongdoing has the General done? (Define wrongdoing as intentionally harming the plaintiff). In otherwords, did the General intentionally harm the plaintiff or knowingly place the plaintiff in harms way and not take actions to prevent such. Was the recall a direct result of actions by the General or circumstances underwhich the General had the ability to prevent? Did the General have knowledge or believe in anyway that harm was going to occur to the plaintiffs and fail to take action to mitigate the harm? The notion of intent is very important in the legal concept of wrongdoing. Accidents or accidental events are not something that a person or organization can control and therefore difficult find liability.

    The second question: if intentional wrongdoing is demonstrable, what is the harm to the plaintiff(s). Loss of use of a vehicle, loss of income due to lack of transportation? Inconvenience and mental distress resulting from traumatic experiences, loss of limbs, loss of health, loss of life?

    Finally, the third question: what is fair restitution for the harm to the plaintiffs? If the harm is 1 months loss of vehicle use, fair compensation would be some amount equal to up to triple (in some states) the harm incurred to the plaintiffs (after the lawyers take 30% of that amount for their contigencies). This would be at most, 3 months of interest on car loans, 3 months of lease payments, etc. minus the cost to the General of the auto rental. Note: insurance costs wouldn't be considered part of the harm to the plaintiffs because these are costs that would have been incurred as a normal routine of being a driver (whether or not the recall occured). What might be included is the insurance premium differential between what these vehicles cost to insure (for one month) vs. what the rental we ended up with would cost to insure.

    REMEMBER: It doesn't matter how many plaintiffs there are, how many lawyers either side has, when it comes to meeting the legal standards for each of the 3 phases. Increasing the number of plaintiffs in a class action lawsuit only increases the total liability payout if the defendant is found guilty. It does not increase the likelyhood of a judgement in favor of one side or the other. And, at most, there are 6000 plaintiffs (2400 of which are not in the U.S).

    Weigh in the actions of the General in conducting the recall, and it becomes very apparent that the legal team was involved in making sure that the General would stand up well in court (though their primary concern was the publicity and marketing side of things).
  • sostroublesostrouble Member Posts: 65
    I not upset with my dealer, they are showing me most the information they are receiving from GM. They seem to be upset with GM also.

    GM has not been open with us. They are keeping us in the dark and seem to be hiding things from us. When I called on April 5 and was told about the recall, I called GM Customer Service, they told me that their was no recall on the 2002. They did not have any information. How can that be if they closed the plant on April 2.

    I think we deserve more compensation than was offer to Alani. We should at least get the following:

    1. I purchased the extended warranty on my Envoy. I think that GM should extend the warranty for free. I should be reimbursed the almost $1,400 I paid.

    2. The Onstar should be upgraded to 2 years of premium. Who know what breakdowns we may have.

    3. I want GM to pay for the deductible for the hail damage to the rental vehicle. I was told that GM would not pay for the extra insurance on the rental.

    4. Since they are offering a $3,500 rebate on the 2001, we should get the rebate for the inconvenience we been through.

    We deserve more, they said they were going to repair the 6,000 vehicle already sold before they re-opened the plant. Looks like the joke is on us!!! Do you think that they will be delivering new ones from the plant before we get ours back???

    Anymore suggestions??
  • debbin67debbin67 Member Posts: 35
    Are you an attorney? You certainly sound like one and maybe missed your calling! LOL I agree with you on all the legal aspects of this. GM is correcting the problem, yes. Lucky for them, noone was injured! I think we as a group of owners need to come up with what we see as fair compensation. I don't feel that a tank of gas and a car wash is going to put GM at the top of my list of favorites. Right now I think they need to SATISFY the owners here. I LOVE my Envoy and want it back! Thats first on my list. Someone contacted me and we were chatting about this. This sounds good to me: $1000 cash rebate, (they do it all the time on end of the year models, so why would this be a problem?), extend the warranty, I don't know for how long, but lets say 2 years, 24,000 miles. And offer special financing through GMAC,(lets say 0.9 or 1.9)which they also do all the time. That sounds fair to me, anyone else? Thats for all the headaches I have had over this. GM is a huge corporation, if they want to keep their customers, they have to do something. I won't pick up my truck until I get something.
  • debbin67debbin67 Member Posts: 35
    I like your deal better than mine, read it after I posted! Lets do something, together!!!!!
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