Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

1910121415352

Comments

  • ralforalfo Member Posts: 36
    I requested a copy of the fix documentation and they told me that something like that would only be available through the dealer. I voiced my concern regarding if the parts to be replaced are welded to the frame or not. He ensured me that they would not issue a fix involving welding. If any type of welding was involved, they would have pulled back all the vehicles to be returned to the assembly plant. He mentioned that any welding job would be inconsistent from tech to tech and they would need all fixes throughout the country to be consistent for safety reasons.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    This article discusses the flaw being at the opposite end of the control arm where the steering knuckle attaches to the arm. All other discussions refer to the flaw being with the control arm itself at the other end of the arm, or where the arm is hinged on a cast iron bracket which in turn is attached to the lower frame rail.

    Obviously, there is a lot of confusion even within GM as to the exact problem. It isn't conceivable that the engineers looked at the failed units and some said it was the hinged bracket while others said it was the steering knuckle attachment. That's like the 3 blind men and the elephant, each coming up with a different answer depending on which part of the elephant they were feeling.

    "What we have here is a failure to communicate..."
  • flyersruleflyersrule Member Posts: 47
    Do all three makes of the new 2002 models of Trailblazer, Envoy and Bravada get make at the
    Moraine, Ohio plant.

    Is yes, are they completed there or do they go on to their representative plants to get the finishing touches for the brand?
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    richardc4 : Whatever... I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

    teo : You are always at risk buying anything first year. Just look at all the problems with those 2000 Honda mini vans. That being said, my mom has a first year Alero and it's been perfect.

    ducky87 : I'm sure your truck will be fine with the fix. If you like it keep it.
  • blefflerbleffler Member Posts: 22
    All 3 are assembled in the Morraine Plant
  • blefflerbleffler Member Posts: 22
    I know this is a subjective question, but has anyone auditioned both the Bose speakers and the standard ones at the same dealer? If so, what did you notice?
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    Getting back to pricing, I spoke with the Olds promotions and incentives people today and they say there are none and nothing is planned. I advised them that the lease price on the '02 Bravada is twice what I am paying on my 98 Bravada and is right up there with Mercedes and Acura (Lexus is less.) Olds is pricing the Bravada out of the market from a leasing perspective, especially with the recall problem. I think many will say why lease a GM vehicle when for the same price or less, I can be in a vehicle with a prestigious name. I gave them some food for thought.
  • jhockadayjhockaday Member Posts: 8
    I heard that these SUVs would get a third seat option this fall. Has anyone heard that? They may have to extend the back some.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    I went to the GMC dealer and crawled under an Envoy and examined the suspension.

    The bracket is a 1/2" or 3/4" thick cast metal piece that is sandwiched between the lower frame rail and another piece of 1/4" thick stamped steel structure, and the whole sandwich is clamped by 3 large diameter bolts. The cast metal bracket has two extended attachement points (one at front, one at rear of the bracket) which is where the lower control arm's hinge points are attached via bushings, thrust washers (for front/rear position adjustment), and hinge bolts.

    The assembly is such that it is possible to replace the bracket AND control arm without dissasembling the entire steering knuckle assembly (which would have been very complex). Instead, they can put coil spring clamps on the coil springs to compress them and to remove the tension and disconnect the lower control arm at the steering knuckle's ball joint, and then remove the control arm hinges, and then remove the bolts holding the bracket assembly to the frame.

    The part of the frame to which the bracket is bolted is the lower frame rail -that is to say that the main frame rails running from rear to front of the vehicle runs below the passenger safety cage but curves up and over the front wheel assembly. The top of the coil spring, shock and upper control arm connects to this main frame rail. Another stamped steel lower frame rail is welded to the main rail and curves under the steering assembly. The recalled bracket bolts is bolted to this lower frame rail.

    I surmise that they used a cast metal piece for the hinge because it is rigid and doesn't deform as easily as stamped metal (to keep front end alignment longer and more reliable). This piece doesn't bear much load because of the position of where the coil spring and shock attach to the lower control arm. The shock and coil spring transfer most of the load to the upper main frame rail.
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    bleffler...Is the Bose upgrade worth it? I have (had) the Bose upgrade in my Trailblazer. It doesn't sound $500 better to me. Of course, I am not an aficionado of fine sound, or maybe I just didn't have the vehicle long enough to truly appreciate the difference.

    akajoe.....Thanks for the update. You lost me somewhere in the third paragraph or so, but it was very comforting just the same. I didn't see the dreaded "W" word anywhere in the body of the message.
  • allenrallenr Member Posts: 89
    What did you stay under the truck all afternoon? :) Thanks for all the detail on the suspension, it looks like it's a relatively easy bolt-in fix. Just replace the parts and give it a carefull alinement, it should be good to go.

    Allen
  • jeff237jeff237 Member Posts: 38
    akajoe, thanks for the information. I feel much better. Hope to get my car back next week.
  • tjay1911tjay1911 Member Posts: 10
    Anyone who knows about car stereos/speakers etc. can tell that Bose is not a high quality product. It's not worth the extra $500. You would be better off going to a car audio place and have some quality speakers and an amp put in.

    Go to any car audio place and listen to their speakers and car stereos and you'll hear and feel the difference.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    I stayed under the car for quite some time. The salesman was wondering what the heck I was doing, and I had to tell him that I needed to understand what the recall fix was going to involve before I could decide whether I would be interested in it or not.
  • richardc4richardc4 Member Posts: 33
    Here we all are sitting around, wringing our hands and acting like victims. The along comes akajoe who in message #586 told of how he took the trouble to go look under a new SUV and see what has to be done. Quite frankly I feel like a damn fool for not thinking of doing just that and I would imagine the rest of you do, too. Only one problem with akajoe. He's a party pooper. What do we have to complain about now?
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Its a GM product. Trust me, something will come up.LOL.
  • watchdoctorwatchdoctor Member Posts: 2
    I recently drove the Bravada and was really impressed with the 4.2 straight 6. Has anyone heard if this engine will be offered in other GM products? I think a regular cab, short bed full size truck with this motor would be the cats meow!! Hope everyone gets their trucks back soon.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Talk about a monopoly and a master of marketing.
    That is bose. Totally overpriced and underperforming.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    Well you can still stay concerned for the following reason: development and pre-production vehicles with the original control arm bracket were tested over 1Million miles with no failures. After only 6000 units, failures occured. GM states that they believe variations in castings at the supplier resulted in some brackets being defective.

    This suggests that the original bracket design was marginal - made with less than 1 sigma tolerance, no problem. Go out to 3 sigma and you get 2 defects in 30000 or 60ppm. Given the severity of this type of defect, such a component needs to be able to tolerate 3 sigma variation in manufacture with 0ppm defects.

    It also suggests that GM did not test the vehicles on 6000 pre-production units during the 1Million miles of testing. Otherwise, statistically they would have detected the defect since you can't produce 12000 brackets and not have 3 sigma variation even in controlled pre-production. Temperature variations in the factory during casting could contribute to that much deviation.

    Now, a problem due to marginal design is not a lifetime test issue which a 1 million mile test would address. It is an issue of whether the design specifications are adequate across the deviations in manufacturing that can be expected. The couple of ten or more control brackets used in the vehicles driven the 1 million miles may very well have been 1 sigma components and indeed prove that a bracket built to specifications will last in excess of 1 million miles. That's great. Now prove that a bracket built to specifications plus or minus 1.5 sigma deviation will last as long (or even a few days).

    So go ahead and complain about what the General has changed. I hope they didn't sluff it off on the supplier and tell them to tighten their manufacturing to 1 sigma. Can't be done, they'd need to build a silicon wafer plant to get those tolerances. Then they must have gone back to their simulators and beefed up the area where the fracture occured so that it could tolerate plus or minus 1.5sigma variation (in simulation). Or did they rule of thumb it and thicken up the metal in those areas by 1.5x or maybe 2x? Whatever it is they did, I guarantee you that 6000 units haven't been made and run for 1 million miles.

    What is the proof that this fix is the "one".
  • trek1420btrek1420b Member Posts: 32
    I called GM today and now they are saying I should have my TB back by the end of the month. He couldn't say when the parts where shipping. He told me that they were told to no longer give out any dates, such as the 19th or the 25th for parts to ship. I voiced my concerns over all this and wanted to know if my comments would be heard by any one else. He said corporate does have access to them (Of course who says they will listen to them or review the written ones). The conversations are recorded and the GM rep said all recorded conversations are normally kept for 30 days but these might be held longer. Also that there has been no decision yet on compensation such as extended warranties, etc. I must admit my enthusiasm is fading fast for this vehichle the longer it drags on and also due to the lack of, and changing information I receive.
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    Ok, Thanks for the info in the 1st post, I felt sooooo goooood till I hit your 2nd post,then you tooooooook it away!!!

    Now, your assessment about the fix matches that of a friend of mine who happen to build cars -not mechanic-; he told me the same thing 1 1/2 hour to replace + alignment. it should be good as new.

    Now, about the sigma thing, I gather that either the fix will not work or any thing, not just cars, can and will fail!

    Here is what I think have happened, the supplier build few good ones to get the contract, those are the ones were tested, then when they got the contract, they simply screwed up!

    -Alan
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    rpageau: I don not want to start a war here, so please, I am not in the process to offend any one.

    I do strongly agree with what tjay1911 said, Bose is not a good quality product, it is meant for mass production. Have you ever walked into a place that sells them, they are set up in a special "audition room", every thing is very well placed and that the audition is done under controlled environment! - I am not bragging here, but I have spent $4250.00 just on the speakers for my HT system, and that is considered an "entry level" if you happen to be "in it" - I mentioned that just to let you know that $500 does not buy you any thing.

    Like it was said, save your $$$ and go to some place where you can customize your system.

    I, for one, will not touch my basic system in the Bravada, it is great, did you spend the time to listen to it, give it a try

    -Alan
  • fsmasekfsmasek Member Posts: 14
    The GM recall makes me feel that they are being very careful to spot and correct potential problems. It would have better if the problem had not occured, but we live on Earth, not in Heaven, so we have to expect problems and errors. I have never known an owner of a BMW. Mercedes, or other foreign car who has not experienced major and expensive defects and frequent repairs. Parts for those cars and trucks are very expensive. For example, I worked with a man in DC who was always having problems with his BMW. My brother owned a BMW 530 and had the front suspension rebuilt three times, had the engine blow up (a burned piston), and then had problems with the rebuilt engine. The foreign cars, even the expensive ones, do not seem to be any mre or less reliable than the American cars, but the foreign car parts are generally far more expensive.
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    Alan....Why did you think your post about Bose was going to offend me? I said in my post that the Bose system in my Trailblazer did not sound $500 better to me. I would never have ordered the upgrade intentionally, as I have been burned by these "upgrades" in the past. The vehicle on the showroom floor that I bought just happened to have it, and I wasn't going to ask them to take it out. I just used the fact I didn't really want it in determining what I would pay for the vehicle.
  • rjvicarsrjvicars Member Posts: 12
    I had the Bose system in my 2002 Envoy and I say it is definitely worth the extra money over the stock system, especially if you have a more "audiophile" type ear. It has substantially more power and is much cleaner than the stock system. Sounds as good as a Nakamichi system I heard in a Lexus LS400 several years ago and that was impressive. Not everyone wants to invest several thousand dollars installing an aftermarket system that will typically be poorly integrated into the vehicle, not to mention the risk of removing door panels, etc. during the install process. Yes, maybe it will sound better than the Bose but I think it is incremental at best. The Bose system has distinctly better highs and more powerful lows. The entire dynamic range is noticeably better. Besides, in theory, when a premium sound system is purchased with the vehicle, one would assume that the system is more expertly tuned or designed for the acoustics of the vehicle. So, IMHO, the Bose system is very strong, wish the front suspension was as good.

    Regarding the front suspension fix and the previous calculations on Six Sigma and defect rate, I must agree with those numbers in theory. However, I must add that in my experience designing and qualifying product for the automotive market, in a situation such as this where time seems to be of the essence, no accelerated testing or finite element analysis can ever guarantee a 0% defect rate, especially in such a short time frame. The trick to a quick, reliable fix is to perform the most aggressive design margin testing possible and literally intentionally overdesign the part. You cannot afford to have this problem coming back at you. You test, break, redesign...increase stress level...test, break, redesign. The trick is to continue to fail and improve the part until the reliability is grown far beyond required levels. I cannot emphasize enough the need to actually perform as many aggressive road miles as possible, in addition to requalifying through salt fox (corrosive atmosphere) and other necessary, SAE, tests. If enough margin is designed into the fix, regardless of sample size and population of product, a robust corrective action can be implemented. Give me a part that has been designed per this approach any day over a part that was estimated using computer simulations (FEA) and standard PASS/FAIL qualification standards.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    I myself believe that this fix will work, and is not as serious an engineering feat as my previous post might imply. If things were so dire, heck the space shuttle would have been grounded indefinitely long ago, and NASA would have folded up shop and decided that space travel was impossible.

    Trying to build a bracket like this one repeatedly that is safe is certainly a routine thing for the design groups at GM. It is unfortunate that a defect in this component could be potentially catastrophic and therefore creates such an urgency and places such importance on getting it right. It is not the difficulty of making this part, but rather the criticality of it's function that makes this recall challenging. And this time constraint makes confidence difficult to establish because gathering the statistical data takes time which they don't have.

    My second post was trying to emphasize the two different issues: reliabilty and repeatability. GM has addressed the reliability of the bracket design with their experimental data (proven by over 1 million miles of testing). They state this repeatedly with respect to the recall and how it is not a design problem. While that may be true, and congratulations to GM for such a successful test, it does not speak to the repeatability of the design during high volume manufacturing or to the defect rates of the design in manufacturing (since their sample set used during testing is too small to be statistically representative of the manufacturing process).

    It very well could be, and most likely is true that the supplier produced "perfect, 1 sigma" parts to get the contract and to provide the pre-production build units. Later, they loosened up their inspection and quality controls when production went into full steam. Or, some bean counter at GM could have leaned on the supplier and caused the quality controls and material to get compromised.

    So in the end, the conclusion of my second post is that I have no doubt that the design is good for 1 million miles+. Whether the design for manufacturing is good has not been empirically or experimentally proven, nor has GM addressed this with their testing data. It is simply to early in the production cycle for them to have any data on this. Whether the 3 sigma variation being produced by the supplier is higher than that allowed by GM is something that will have to be resolved by GM and the supplier. No doubt a lot of the cost of the recall will be paid by the supplier (or their liability insurer).

    It is interesting to note that this component does not bear a lot of load because of the design of the front suspension. Fractures that occured are very likely due to defective castings rather than stress induced because of insufficient strength. The bracket appears to be a cast component made out of some alloy (not steel). I believe it is cast for multiple reasons: rigidity for better suspension performance, resistance to corrosion because of it's proximity to the engine, and weight.
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    I knew that you are open minded, I think I used the wrong words. I was concerned that I might offend others who might take it personally or misunderstand my point and think that I am bashing Bose.

    rjvicars: $500 is what we pay for this option, take $75 off for the dealer, say another $75 for GM (a very conservative figure) - that makes the upgrade worth $350. I personally do not believe that $350.00 can buy you any thing that is drastically superior. This is just my opinion, may be my ears are bad and can not tell the difference between a stock radio and a Bose one. If that is the case, then thank God, I just saved $500.00

    -Alan
  • 9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    I've been watching this forum as a primary source of information as the recall unfolds and as I continue to deliberate whether the new Envoy is the right vehicle for my wife and me.

    For those interested in the design, development and start of production of vehicles, the book "All Corvettes are Red" is an engrossing read. It follows the C5 Corvette through this process ... from the inside.
  • tjay1911tjay1911 Member Posts: 10
    Would someone please explain what is the rear locking differential? I asked the sale rep at the dealership and he said he didn't know. My response was, you're trying to sell me this option on the car but you have no idea what it is. So to be honest I'm not sure if this is a necessary option. Any input would be very helpful.
  • 9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    just another name for positraction, limited slip, traction lock, etc. If one rear wheel has less traction and spins power will be transferred to the other to keep (or get) you moving.

    Turns what is called a "4 wheel drive" from a 2-wheel drive to a 3 wheel drive. I wouldn't get a vehicle without it.
  • mmateyakmmateyak Member Posts: 15
    just as 9t9 said...it is a means to transfer power to the tires that have more traction. For example if you got one side of the vehicle stuck in the snow/mud and the other side was on a paved surface...the power would be transferred to the tires on the paved surface as to allow for more power on the surface with great traction. Thus you will be able to get out of "sticky" situations. A NON rear locking differential would have the tired just spin in the snow/mud, as all 4 wheels (assuming 4 wheel drive) would have the same amount of power...thus making it hard to get out of some "sticky" situations! :)

    Thats about as easy as I can explain it. Definitely GET the rear locking differential...worth every penny IMO! :)

    mmateyak
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    GM resumes SUV production

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    positraction and limited slip are not exactly the same.
  • fleyerodderfleyerodder Member Posts: 3
    I've been reading all of your post and reading up on the fix where ever I can find information.

    I called M the beginning of the week and was told the same thing the rest of you hear; parts would ship soon and I should have my truck back by the end of the month. I called my dealer to confirm and he said "ay, we got two sets of parts today and got those trucks back on the road". I was a little put off as, from what the dealer told me, I had purchased the first Envoy sold in the state of NJ and mine was still in the shop, but I guess two trucks were off the road sooner than mine.

    I confirmed that the fix did not involve welding, he showed me the work they did. The dealer washed my truck, filled up the tank and changed the oil since I already have 3,000 miles on it. They tried to charge me for the oil change and I gave them the riot act. The service manager came back with his tail between his legs and said I was all set.

    As to compensation, I asked M every time I called and they said that the first step was to get the trucks fixed, look into how much time they spent off the road and then go from there. I am betting I don't hear another word about that.

    Just wanted to let you know that the fixes are happening. Truck drives like it did when it went in. Hope everything is set now.

    AR
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    image
  • jeff237jeff237 Member Posts: 38
    What leverage do we have to gain just compensation. If we don't take the SUV back until they agree to something, I still have to make my car payment. Should we keep our rentals hostage until they agree. I feel that they need to make one of our car payments, extend the warranty two more years, and in my case, add running boards. But what recourse do we have??
  • fletch45fletch45 Member Posts: 72
    My Silverado uses the Eaton locker, and I assume the Trailblazers use the same thing. I live in Iowa, with lots of snow, and I wouldn't be without the locker. The link gives a good description of it.

     http://www.torquecontrol.eaton.com/prodinfo/products/index.html

    jim f
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    Glad to hear at least someone has their vehicle back. But this whole situation is still pretty intriguing. I could have sworn I read and heard numerous times that GM's priorities were as follows:

    1. Get the 6,000 sold vehicles back on the road.
    2. Get the 24,000 unsold vehicles at the dealers back on the go.
    3. Lastly, start up production at Moraine.

    Huh? Wire service reports (AP&UPI) say production started again yesterday, 4/19!! And yet only one person has come on this board to say they have their vehicle back, and even that post suggests the repair parts are only trickling into the dealears.

    My dealer very excitedly called Wednesday to give me the late-breaking news that I had already received in the mail from GM 5 days earlier. They expected parts any day now, and would call me the minute they came in. Well, Friday has gone by and I haven't heard squat. Think I'll drive by the place tomorrow , and I bet they have vehicles back on the lot for sale. I can really have some fun with them if that turns out to be true.

    Having said all that, I really am hoping they don't call me for a while. While I was very disappointed when this first happened, I have become very pragmatic about it as time has passed. At this point the longer they keep it, the better for me. I've already filed my Lemon Law 15 day "out of service" notification with GM. Every day that goes by gets me closer to the 30 day limit before they have to replace it or just buy it back. Something tells me I haven't seen the end of "out of service" days when I eventually get this back. It would be really cool to get a new one with all the bugs worked out sometime within the next two years. Man, that really sounds greedy.....oh what the heck, I guess I'll hope for it anyway!!!
  • mmateyakmmateyak Member Posts: 15
    Apparently for quite some time. I've driven by local dealers all week and seen Trailblazers in front...on the roadside to catch eyes...and for sale. If I had the time, I would have stopped in and asked for a test drive just to see what they'd say! Haha...I bet I'd get all kinds of answers!

    But, they are out on the lots...in clear view...with price lists on their windows. I'd say they are readily for sale. They definitely arent hidden in the back of the lot or in a garage!

    mmateyak
  • tjay1911tjay1911 Member Posts: 10
    Dealer called earlier today. Wanted to know if I was still interested. It sounds to me like they're fixing the unsold cars first. It's just a hunch. I'm heading to the dealer to take a second test drive on saturday. My wife thinks I should wait until June or July to buy the car. She believes they'll pay us to take them off the lot. She thinks the sales of the Envoys are gonna be real slow because of this recall.

    I think she might be right. But I would never tell her that.
  • debbin67debbin67 Member Posts: 35
    Checking these updates daily make my day. What am I going to do when I get my truck back? This is just more gossip on the subject of why they still have these trucks parked on the front lines at the dealers: I was told (at the dealers) that they were not to move the trucks till a fix came in. Then they would move them to service to have them fixed! Sounds kinda creepy to me, but I thought most of you would chuckle at that one! Hope I made someones day! One final note, I haven't heard squat about my truck. I agree with an earlier post, keep it as long as you want. Just adds more fuel to the fire. I am kinda having fun with this rental truck!
  • lvwxmanlvwxman Member Posts: 1
    Stopped by my dealership today and was told parts should be arriving next week... so cross my fingers I will have my Envoy back late next week. All the Envoys are in the back lot... although the sales re. stated they sold 2 even with the current recall.

    I have only called the M Customer Assistance line once and did not get any answers... this was a week and half after the recall. What really got under my skin was two days later I got a call from there contracted follow-up/survey outfit. Bottom line very upset with M Headquarters. Compensation wise... looking to get at least the first if not more monthly payments... pro-rated insurance and registration. Extension of 1 year On star contract or possible upgrade to premium service. I already purchased the extended warranty... maybe can stretch it to 100,000 miles.

    Before the recall though... did get a chance to take the Envoy off-goading in Death Valley. Loved it... can't wait too get it back.
  • sostroublesostrouble Member Posts: 65
    I went by my insurance company again today, they still do not have the insurance cost for me yet. They said that they are too new. But they said rates will not go up because of the recall. I wonder!!! Just curious, does anyone have the yearly cost on rates for the 2002 Envoy. I know they vary by where we live, but they shouldn't be that different. I haven't had any accident claims or tickets in over 20 years of driving. I just want to make sure that their quote is in line when they finally get my quote. I have the Envoy SLT, at least I will have it when they give it back.

    Also, I haven't paid my sales tax on the Envoy yet. The state says that if the sale is cancelled after I have paid the sales tax, I do not get the sales tax back. So I will also have late fees and penalties for paying late.
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    sostrouble: I am paying $200/year more on insurance than the 93 Blazer I had - NJ is the highest insurance cost state!

    debbin67: Please hang around for at least 2 more weeks after all of us get ours back, this way we will know how good the fix is. We should be fine, I was assured many times by friends who happen to know their trade.

    -Alan
  • richardc4richardc4 Member Posts: 33
    Akajoe I knew you were a party pooper. Here you got us all feeling better about everything by telling us you crawled under an Envoy and checked it out--probably got all dirty in the process. Then you burst our balloon with your message #596. Though I'm as concerned as any other, perhaps more so than some, I think we have to realize that anything mechanical can break and there's no telling how long it will last. It's not much of a comfort but it's a reality plain and simple. In the meantime I'm about ready to crank up my '31 Model A and start driving it. The brakes aren't all that great and it's a bit slow but it's never been recalled and it gets pretty good gas milage.
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    sostrouble....My rates went up $160/year in Florida over my '95 Blazer. A little more than I expected, but in line with what Alan experienced (#621).

    By the way, who is your insurance company?? Honest Al's Bail Bonds, Title Loans, and Car Insurance, Inc. I'm just kidding, but it sounds awfully strange to me that an insurance company cannot come up with a rate for a new car. My agent didn't have any details on the truck either, but estimated the cost based on the MSRP of the vehicle. When I got the official bill from State Farm, it was pretty close.
  • rroman8420rroman8420 Member Posts: 23
    Here is an informative article that has some of the same old information but it also has an interactive demo. Anyway, I think the diagram helps understand a little better what is going on. Take a look!


    http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?srv=parser&act=display&tf=/news/national/storytemplate6.tmpl

  • lyndellwlyndellw Member Posts: 31
    I previously had a 98 Durango with full coverage,$100 ded on collision, $0 ded on comp.
    State Farm Ins $339.00 per 6 mos. Envoy premium is $488.00 per 6 mos. Durango was a class 3 rating, Envoy is rated as class 5.I live in Illinois, have a clean driving record with no claims. I soon will have a large comp claim against my ins, the rental vehicle I have got riddled by hail.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    What we were hoping - that the bracket is not welded to the frame - we got. That is the most important thing that weighed heavily on owner's minds, and is a great relief that our safety is not in the hands of welders that can't be inspected producing results that would make the original bracket seem like it was made of titanium (I don't know that it isn't, but I'm guessing not).

    Didn't mean to rain on the parade, just wanted to point out that GM's 1 million mile testing does not go to the issue behind this recall. Therefore, while that is nice information to have that demonstrates their diligence during development, it is irrelevant to the owner's concerns about the recall fix.

    Now having said that, I believe with good metallurgy and because this component doesn't bear heavy stresses, the recall fix will bring us all to the confidence level that the 1 million mile testing give us. We should all rest easy and feel confident when we get our vehicles back. I apologize for the downer #596.
  • richardc4richardc4 Member Posts: 33
    Akajoe,
    As for the glass being half full, I'll drink to that. As for the rest I was just giving you a hard time. At least you've been THINKING while the rest of us have been complaining.
    Credit where credit is due.
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