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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    equiman : I wouldn't be too smug about Nissan. Far from top of the quality/ reliability heap. I like the Pathfinder but it's got it's problems too. Our best friends bought one three months ago and it's been in the shop twice already.

    As for the problem, it almost sounds like an over reaction. "Don't drive your truck"??

    I still think GM is doing the right thing here. Honda and Ford tend not to do that sort of thing.
  • lbthedoglbthedog Posts: 198
    Help me out here, wasn't it just last year that it was discovered, Mitsubishi had taken numerous warranty reports, some safety related, and hidden them within the corporation? Not that it really matters, but if I recall correctly, the sum total of the punishment was about ten thousand dollars American. I guess I wouldn't condemn the entire Japanese OR American auto industry but I would salute a company that shows guts in the name of safety rather than hiding a problem. Remember the key in all this: nobody who has purchased one of these vehicles has been injured.
  • zeenzeen Posts: 401
    I understand that there were leasing deals announced just before the recall. Anyone have an estimate on the monthly payment for a 36 month 12,000 mile/yr. lease with $3000 down? In any event, this kind of part failure is relatively unprecedented, for the car not to be driveable at all. I can never remember a recall where the company said don't drive to the dealership for the repair...we'll tow it in. Don't they select production line vehicles for rigorous testing?
  • r22549r22549 Posts: 42
    If ford had taken this approach, alot of lives could have been saved...

    Ironic, I just went today to an Olds/Caddy dealer. Saw the Bravada there, nice looking. Was going to bring the wife in for a test drive, I guess I'll have to wait. Gm has had better days though....
  • BushwackBushwack Posts: 258
    Last week I gave a deposit to a dealer to look for a loaded Envoy. I got a call last night telling me he found one 14 miles away and has already had it towed to his dealership. With purchase price already negotiated ($500 over invoice), the wife and I were on our way to the dealership this afternoon when we heard on the radio of the recall. We got to the dealer, asked him what he new of it and admitted he had yet to hear of any recall. He went to his manager to verify the recall. His manager said the recall only effects Envoys/Bravados/TB made prior to March 9. "My" Envoy had a manufacturing date of March 20. I asked him to verify the recall is for 'earlier' models. After waiting around for 20 minutes, he comes back with a letter on the dealerships letterhead stating the specifics of the recall. When asked why the notice is on the dealer's letterhead and not on an official GM memo (I expected a faxed copy), he stumbled on his words until assuring me that such a document is of legal binding.


    I didn't bother asking for my deposit back (I put a hold on the check) and said adios.

    The message here is buyer beware and buyer be informed. The recall doesn't scare me away from buying an Envoy. I'll wait until *I* gather more info on the recall and then proceed to purchase the car from another dealership.

    Just my two cents...
  • nighter50nighter50 Posts: 127
    I think you made the right call . I have read some of the news reports and no mention of March 9 date. Also, why would they stop the plant if they had already started making the fix March 9th? Makes me think that dealer is not one you want to deal with when the recall parts are replaced.

    Good luck
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    a later news story I saw indicated lower control arms are the suspect component leading to the recall. if the problem was faulty parts to a good spec, this one should be behind GM in a short while. it the problem was good parts to a suspicious specification, it may be a little while longer. you break or lose a lower control arm, no steering, wheel could be twisted off, etc. once again, always avoid initial production of a new vehicle :(
  • r22549r22549 Posts: 42
    It was do to faulty parts..
  • tenn1975tenn1975 Posts: 6
    I feel sorry for anyone who paid over MSRP for one of these SUV's. A local dealer in Nashville had a Trailblazer with a price next to the window sticker with a note that said "low availability charge $2500. I couldn't help but laugh.
  • allenrallenr Posts: 83
    Yea, it's a bummer, just took delivery of my new Bravada on Saturday. Been driving it alot in the last 5 days. A friend at work showed me the news report:( I called the dealer and they just gotten the notice minutes ago, around 10:00 am PST. I talked to the service manager, he wanted to send a flatbed out tow it. I didn't want to waste that much time or have the truck damaged by the tow truck operator. I drove it down myself, it was no big deal. There wasn't any thing different about the Bravada today than yesterday? I too feel it's better to get it fixed and over with, than trying to cover it up with some mail-in recall. Drove it down and dropped it off, got my loner and was on my way in 20 minutes.

    I know they tested these SUV's very hard, there is even a Score 500 desert racer version. If it was prone to cracking it would have showed up by now. It was probbley the parts suppler not making the part to spec. They might have change something to make the part more more brittle. I have driven GM SUV's for the last 17 years and drove a few very hard. Never had any suspension parts break!!

    Let's have a little perspective here, the new Ford Escape has 5 recalls already!!, one for leaking fuel. If you think I'm streching the truth check it out at:


  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    I don't think it will really affect sales in the long run. These trucks are great and the Escape sells in spite of 5 recalls. It's a bit of mark on the trucks reputation, but it's not unusual. Japanese/ European models are prone to this for new models also.
  • topgntopgn Posts: 132
    Guys save your hard earned $$$ and buy safe, reliable SUV's........Try the Sequoia, Highlander, 4Runner, or the Acura MDX...Do not buy vehicles that depreciate 50% in two years, have the worst offset crash results 1992 to 2001 GMC Envoy, Blazer, Bravada..

    FOr some of you GM lovers...."the recall is good"
    give me a break when will you learn GM is a second class manufacturer..IF want Quality buy..Toyota, Honda, BMW, and Mercedes..Some people NEVER learn...For all you GM lovers...I bet your ancestors thought the world was flat, and the Yogu would be the car of the future.!!
  • jmaterojmatero Posts: 253
    ... is that this is a really good vehicle from all accounts. As for the panels not meeting, that's typical GM... I have yet to see a GM vehicle with perfectly-matched panels. If you want to see one that's REALLY bad, check out the new olds Aurora. All 7 on the lot near me had trunk lids that were misaligned... REALLY misaligned.

    They'll fix this though, don't worry. Unfortunately, this happens whenever any ALL NEW vehicle is introduced. It does give the vehicle a black eye but at least they caught it before anyone got hurt. A bad control arm is dangerous.

    As for attacking GM, look... I'm not a GM fan but I really want these vehicles to succeed because they have promise and GM needs a sales success ASAP. I hope this is the last recall they get for a while. Also, it is true the 2001 versions are not the safest suvs out there... poor crash test performers... but the 2002 are ALL NEW from the GOUND UP and we'll have to wait for real test results before judging them. Just my 2cents.

    OH and for the person who cancelled his check... I'd report that dealer to the better business bureau NOW... that's one of the most unbelievable things I've ever heard of. I wouldn't trust them again... they apparently don't care about your safety... only the sale. Go to a different dealer!
  • joelisjoelis Posts: 315
    They try to be proactive and avoid the whole Ford/Firestone conspiracy situation, and still it looks bad on them because of people like TOPGN who just wait for stuff like this to rub back in people's faces whether its warranted or not.

    The ironic part of topgn's statement is that his beloved imports would do everything possible to hide these types of issues, and have a better chance of doing so, since sales numbers are so much lower than domestics.

    Toyota plays the Deceiving Game better than anyone. Just look at their BS numbers on Cargo volume of the Sequoia. They state 128 CI of total cargo space where Expedition (a bigger vehicle) only has 110 CI. HOW? Toyota neglects to state that you have to physically remove the 2nd row of seats (bolted down with 8 fixed bolts, which are not normally intended to be removed).

    I know what the response will be from these bleeding heart import lovers - "Imports don't have these issues". BS. As long as humans are involved in the build process, there will be errors for every manufacturer. Some are just more devious than others.
  • lyndellwlyndellw Posts: 31
    I read the directive from GM regarding the recall,It stated that customer would be provided with a comparable vehicle. Enterprize gave me a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Said if I didn't like it,and they get something I like better they would change it for me.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    The guy is a GM basher. I have found him many places and that's all he does. Perhaps he is an ex-employee.

    joelis : Honda's minivan. have had numerous problems but of course Honda refuses to recall. There is a whole forum on the problems people are having. No car make is immune to this. Noticed BMW just issued a car recall yesterday.
  • jbossertjbossert Posts: 38
    My dealer just called me and said that GM just lifted the $30/day limit. He said to request something comparable (like a Jeep Grand Cherokee) and that it will be taken care of. He thought that the "breaking off point" was around $50/day.
  • greer4greer4 Posts: 1
    With the recent 2002 Bravada recall, is there a suggestion as to how long to wait for the current 2002 Bravadas to be fixed, and/or the newly assembled Bravadas to be manufactured in a safe configuration.

    Hard to trust GM to think of the public first, and the car dealership sales people may not show me the Recall Repair verification.

    New models always have some quirks to fix, but not on my time.
  • dwight53dwight53 Posts: 19
    Had an acura which needed tranny replaced in first 4000 miles and had NUMEROUS electrical problems. drove my Chevy Caprice for 180,000 miles, got 95,000 on the brakes, no prob whatsoever. Now hav '99 lexus ls400, it has electrical problems, and no character at all and uncomfortable seats. would like to get TB/ENV/BR, are they as good on the highway as the tahoe?? Would prefer tahoe to fight against 18 wheelers, but don't like massive size for the occaisional parking garage. How about the seats are they as comfortable as the Tahoe???
  • dwight53dwight53 Posts: 19
    Those of you who bot a 02 Bravada, what were the terms after the 0/0 period. How long of a term and what interest rate?
  • nargnarg Posts: 113
    The latest Car and Driver had a scathing note from the editor on GM quality. Interesting timing. I love GM design and engineering. If, they would just build them as good or better than their competition...
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    Read that. Not sure what that rant was all about. C&D editorials have commended GM on other occasions. Oh well, perhaps he had a bad day.
  • badgerpaulbadgerpaul Posts: 219
    It sure seems as if GM thought of the customer first in this case, by recalling the vehicles before any control arms failed on a customer vehicle.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Took a couple of friends over to the olds dealership to look at the 2002 Bravada that they got a few days ago. They didn't like the front end too much. Seemed to feel that it looked like a Tonka toy. They really like the interior, which i feel is the vehicles strong point.
    After looking at the bravada we went to look at the trailblazer. This was my first look. The exterior is probably better than the bravada.
    The quality of the interior materials and plastic is just AWFUL! It looks like the interior of a child's toy. The graining on the dashboard is got to be seen to be unappreciated. There were hard plastic edges on the door handles and console trim. $30,000 for this?
    I'll take the bravada any day, even though its resale will be poor.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    I have a feeling Bravada re-sale will hold up pretty good. The truck is basically the same as it's Chevy/GMC twins. The same can not be said for Intrigue/ Aurora.

    As for the Chevy interior, of course it's not as nice. It's a Chevy! I personally like the Chevs exterior look better and the interior was fine with me. No worse than base Pathfinders or Explorers.
  • rjvicarsrjvicars Posts: 12
    I have owned a 2002 Envoy for just over one week when it was abruptly recalled and towed to the dealer. I have been given a very crummy saturn SL1 as a loaner (feels less safe than the Envoy). No comparison to the $38K vehicle GM just impounded from me. I have politely asked both the dealer and the district rep for my money back. The vehicle has less than 400 miles on it, has not been titled, and could be sold for new to someone else. GM's district rep was very rude and non-cooperative and made some comment about my stating that GM is lying? What, GM lie? Never. I am confident that GM will eventually fix the problem, I just do not plan to wait around as they redesign my front end for a vehicle that was most likely released before it was fully designed and qualified. I am also concerned about how they plan to road simulate a quarter of a million miles to qualify the fix in only a weeks time. Accelerated testing is based on many assumptions. I also have severe concerns about my local dealer "fixing" the vehicle correctly, whatever than will mean. I get the sick feeling it will be returned to me with more problems, now in the suspension (creaks, clunks, alignment and tire wear issues). I expressed my concerns about any fix to the District Rep who rudely stated GM will not put its customers in an unsafe condition. Funny, because for the last two weeks my family has been riding around in one of their unsafe vehicles...GM put us in it. GM has clearly forgotten how to treat their customers and proceeded to harass them. I bought the vehicle from Don Ayers GMC in Fort Wayne, IN. I am contacting the BBB and my attorney. This is my first American car in 15 years. It will also be my last simply because of the poor manner in which GM is treating me.
  • alanialani Posts: 39
    I plan to do a full post latter, I am short on time now.
    I, too, have a week's old Bravada 2002 with 170 miles on it.
    1- Both my dealer and GM called me 1st thing in the morning, they both did what it took to comfort me.
    2- I got a 2001 Jimmy replacement, GM said that I should get a "comparable" vehicle. (if you get something you don't like, then it is the dealer not GM)
    3- I was treated like a king at the dealer, the sales manager, the internet sales manager, the service manger, every one apologized to me, I told them it is not their fault, they said "it is your conviniance that we care about" and that is for just 400 above invoice!.
    4- My dealer refused vehemently to let me drive it to him, he insisted that it should be picked up.
    5- GM almost sent a tow truck to my work place, they thought the car was there.
    6- GM did what is right, I don't think they endangered me or my family, there is not a single fatality involved thank god, unlike FORD EXPLODER!
    7- What more do you want a car company to do, hide it and then end up with dead bodies scattered all over the place, that is the right way if you are going to compete with Japan Inc.
    8- I looked at the Acura and Maxima, did not like them, too small, not as powerful (giving the engine size and the gallon/mile ratio).
    9- Topgon, may be you are rich, I am not, also to pay 2000 + MSRP is a rip off in my book.
    10 - No, I do not own GM's stock, matter of fact, my previous car was 93 Blazer, I had hell with it, every thing that can go wrong did go wrong!
    11- Yes, this car will beat Maxima & Acura any time (when you take relative engine performance) and a good calculator!.
    12- No wind noise, no exterior noise, the hood fits perfectly (no 1/4 inch on one side and 1/2 inch on the other like some one claimed, go get a ruler!).

    For the fellow who asked about the 0/0 rate, it is 8.5 for 52 month starting this March (I go it 3/28), no pre payment penalty.

    (by the way, I took it up steep hills, very steep with 3 passengers, I did our weekly shopping for 4, this shopping is too heavy that my old car couldn't haul, I had no problems, the problem was found not on dealers lot like it was mentioned, but during a some sort of a simulation at GM, this is a safety precaution!)



    *that turned out to be a long post, oh well, you guys got me going!
  • rjvicarsrjvicars Posts: 12

    Has GM given you any indication of what the fix will be and when we will get our SUV's back? Do you know exactly what the problem is?

  • rjvicarsrjvicars Posts: 12

    When has GM told you your car will be corrected?

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