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Comments
The rep told me she would "note" my dissatisfaction with the way the recall was handled and the offer of compensation. A lot of good that will do.
I really don't believe GM understands that we are not upset as much that there was a recall, but the way the recall has been handled and the lack of communication.
I think I will bite the bullet and file the lemon law claim on Monday with the BBB Auto Line. I am now so angry at GM that I don't think they could appease me with any offer other than another car made after the problem was found.
Sorry for the long post.
BTW I'm in Southwestern Virginia where apparently parts are shipped by wagon train.
also got in the mail a notice my free on star minutes expire 4/26/01 (yesterday) nice touch gm
Don't know what approach I'll take with GM, they haven't pestered me yet. For now, I'm just going to shut all that crap out of my mind and enjoy my Bravada. I hope those who haven't gotten theirs yet do so soon.
I feel bad that GM is keeping the customers in dark about the problem, the fix, the timeframe and the reliability of such a fix. Moreover, people, who paid $30,000 to become one of the first few owners of a new model, can have high expectations. GM is doing very little to assure them of the quality and to make them feel better. These unfortunate owners are not able to drive what they paid for, and GM is offering them peanuts in compensation. I am sure that these vehicles will have a VERY VERY LOW RESALE VALUE and consumers will remain WORRIED ABOUT THE QUALITY PROBLEMS AND DESIGN ISSUES FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. But GM cares very little; profit-making is their sole objective.
Despite being a GM owner, I feel that Toyota offers a lot more PEACE OF MIND! I was thinking of buying another GM vehicle. But I don't think that I can trust GM anymore. Why should I when GM cannot guarantee PEACE OF MIND to consumers who pay over $30K for a GM vehicle?
If you have a car that's in high demand then the resale value will be good. If as some people have pointed out, there is so much to go wrong with our new trucks. Then why did you buy it in the first place! In this day and age most if not all cars and trucks will have some kind of recall in there life span. I have had my Bravada back for two days now. It's running as good or better than ever. With good maintenance I expect excellent service out of it. We all get cars or trucks we don't like or end up having some little problems that can't be fixed. Fortunately for me those cars have been the exception. I'm having a very good run with all my GM cars and I expect the same or better from my Bravada.
Allen
You still have not answered my question: Why don't you ask for a full refund? Why would you want to drive a GM product if this recall has led you to never buying a GM product ever again????
The forming produces structures that add strength, sort of like corrugation in cardboard...the bends make it stronger that simply a piece of paper. A forged steel product is similar to what a blacksmith does. Heating and then shaping can produce a superior or tighter grain structure as the metal is more receptive to shaping and is somewhat annealed as well. Proper heat forging and quenching makes swords very strong, due to their very tight grain structure.
It is desired to have a very non-brittle part on your suspension components so heat forging/stamping, if done properly, is probably a good process. My guess is that GM's supplier has had difficulty controlling critical parameters in their forging process and consequently produced brittle parts with a loose grain structure as observed under a grain structure analysis, which are inherently weaker and prone to fracture. A plain steel part that has been shaped w/o forging does not necessarily receive the benefit of the heat. It is probably not as strong as an identical, properly forged product, but its quality is much less dependent on the process control of the heating/cooling. Since the material of a plain stamped part is not heated, its molecules are not as willing to be shaped and tend to resist the bending. Their grain structure will be looser and overall this part is inherently weaker. To compensate for this, I believe I read that GM made the part thicker. It's a simple approach and probably more expensive for GM as more steel is used. It is probably heavier as well and with the strict CAFE standards for fuel improvement, weight reduction is a major priority. Just pull on your front fenders and you will see how thin the steel is. These SUV's need to cut weight wherever they can.
Ultimately, I would prefer a cast part. I have an Audi that has all alumuminum cast suspension parts. It is very light (unsprung weight) and very strong. However, cast parts can be very expensive and the supplier had better know what they are doing to manufacture them properly as well.
I hope this answers your question. I guess I would like to have some knowledge regarding the other weight bearing suspension pieces. Who manufactured them? Were they manufactured using the same process as the problematic parts? How can the owners of these SUV's be assured the other parts were produced with sufficient quality? All very good and reasonable questions to keep in my mind when your family is tooling down the road at 75MPH. Since I was never convinced I would get the answers I wanted...and yes I am overly conservative...and yes I am an engineer who works on products for automotive...and yes I do failure analysis, etc., I simply decided up front to get a refund and I got out of my deal. In GM's defense, they probably over-designed the the replacement part. They were obligated to. Good luck to you all.
I have also asked for my money back with no results.
As why your truck is not ready, as it was said, either the guy that does it is out, the alignment computer is down, a lot of other cars are ahead of yours or may be he just did not start working on your truck in the first place, he just placed it in the shop to give the impression that he is working on it. Check around to see if he has other trucks in the lot or on the show room floor, may be he got less parts than trucks and since you are nice, he just took advantage of it. Call GM, let them know it is taken 48 hrs+ , ask why, and it is about time to raise some hell with the dealer and GM. Make sure it is on record.
Speaking of bad communication, there is nothing of whatsoever on my record regarding the 123 offer, the only thing on record is all the "hell" I raised in total of 6 or 7 calls.
I took the family out yesterday, it drove exclent, the steering wheel was strait, it ran right in the center on the highway without holding the steering wheel. I put about 100 miles on it yesterday.
-Alan
1. Who is Carl Decurtis from Marlton, NJ and how was he able to have he vehicle repurchased?
2. What about the repurchase that occurred in Alabama. How was that done so easily?
These two questions are in responce to the article written in autonews.com
The site is http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories/fordgm417.htm
Well I did my research and what I found out, well see for yourself. I am not going to post my results just yet go ahead dig deep!
My wife will not go to any restaurant for any reason, she was a restaurant(s) manager for many years from national chains to 5 star ones, she knows exactly what goes on in the kitchen, no matter how good the chef is, how careful management is, no matter how clean the health inspection is. Because of her "insider" knowledge, she will not eat in a restaurant, period.
-Alan
he said "gm will buy back the vehicle from anyone no questions asked"
i suggest you contact your sales managers and tell them you want a full refund and are not interested in picking up your repaired trucks
Anyway, even with the afraid statement, I really wasn't referring to the new brackets. I have seen them, and have been driving on them since Thursday evening. I am not the least bit worried about them.
I was really referring to the fact the repair was taking over 48 hours. I would be concerned they may have done something stupid during the repair process, and were trying to overcome whatever it might have been. That is why I said to make sure you have a full and complete explanation for the delay.
Let me repeat...There is nothing wrong with the brackets! (I think)...
Message #685 you can see a picture of the bracket for the 2002 Bravada (same for all).
Message #737 GM seems to take care of Lemon Law complaints first!
Take a look at both of these.
Glock40***If I have chatted privately with you in the past couple of days, please e-mail me with an explanation of what you are talking about. I think you are the same person, but I am not sure. You have me confused. If you are not, I wish you too would elaborate on the matter. I thought we were all in this together. It looks as though some of you seem to have more information than the rest of us.
**On another note: 36 hours later, no truck. I am going to place a call to my dealer to see if they have any Envoys for sale. Something tells me with the weekend here, they probably chose to fix a few to try to sell today. I really hope that this isn't the case!!! Be back with the results in 5 min.
Love,
Jeff
Also, my service bulletin copy says that the new bracket has green paint on it not white. BUT... the actual "NEW" bracket on the car has a white dot. (More confusion from GM)
As far as post # 737... I filed the Lemon complaint the day after the recall. My car was fixed on April 20th (couldn't pick it up until the 24th. I think that GM snet the parts to my dealer super fast because I filed with the BBB Autoline. That is all I am saying. I know other people have not gotten their cars back. I am curios to see if the one that got their cars backhad filed with the BBB Autoline, and the one that do not have their cars probably did not.
By the way, I'm in Ohio.
DebbiN67@aol.com
I emailed all the local fleet managers and shared with them the price www.southerngm.com offers ($200 below invoice). Most dealers thought I was crazy and told me so. I had one dealer that came close to the price and I had one dealer match the price.
I went today to order the vehicle, expecting to get hassled, the price to be raised, etc., etc. That didn't happen. The dealer had all the forms filled out, we ordered the vehicle online together, then I left. The entire transaction was quick and painless.
Btw, the only drive able Bravada was one that arrived last night from the factory. They had about 5 Bravadas and about 6 Envoys, none of which were fixed yet.
I am convinced that Internet shopping is the way to go. However, I would recommend dealing with the fleet managers directly, rather than deal with the third party sites. I attempted to use autobytel, carpoint, etc, etc. The best results were knowing what you wanted to pay and emailing the fleet manager directly.
If anyone needs a good Olds dealer in central Ohio, I can certainly recommend one.
Resolution Sought:
-------------------
Customer wants mfg to repurchase the vehicle and cancel the lease and give full refund of all monies invested in vehicle since time of purchase.
I hope this answers your question and can help you.
Also, why doesn't the 2002 Envoy have Xenon HID headlights? The older models do, seems like a step backwards. Anyone have any comments on the ability of the halogen headlights to light up the road and beyond? The claim is that they are "high power halogens" whatever that means. How do they compare to other cars, trucks, etc...
I realize that not many have had much experience with either of these items, but any comments would be appreciated.
rroman: Where is the white dot on the part? Before I give my neighbors a good laugh seeing me under the SUV. Since they know that I don't know about car maintenance. I can check the fluid levels, but I have someone else to the maintenance.
Doc: I don't have the running boards on my Envoy, but the loaner Durango did, and they got in the way.
I hope everyone that doesn't have their SUV gets theirs BACK SOON!!
The GM Campaign Information Processing Center letter just came. This GM 2/24000 mile Smart Care Maint. Contract, how much did it cost. They state if already purchase they will refund. What does it include?
I already purchase the extended warranty. Is that part of it or something else? The extended warranty cost about $1,400. If it's different, it was never offered when I purchased the SUV, not that I would have taken it.
I got a letter from GM today telling me that my parts would arrive yesterday. I may be dense but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The letter also told that I would be provided with an additional 3 months of Onstar and 2 year 24 month smart care coverage. To me that would amount to a few oil and filter changes. That's not very much for the inconvenience some of us have had to endure. My situation seems to be different from any I've read about and I've asked for an additional year's warranty. Now I guess the best thing to do is wait and see.
In regards to the headlights, I don't have a problem with the headlights. They work just fine.
Mine just slid in. No screw holes or anything to
attach it more securely. If anybody walks up they can just reach down and slide the plate out with no problem. I don't want my plate just disappearing on a parking lot.
Are the Bravada and TB the same way?
Roman: My new parts have the white dots on them.
One other question. Can anyone recommend an effective type of drive-thru carwash that is safe on a vehicle's finish. I've never been able to convince myself that an artificial hurricane surrounded by tons of machinery could ever be safe on a vehicle's finish.
I did a thorough washing for the first time today, and quickly realized it was considerably more work than my '95 Blazer. The added height makes the roof a lot more challenging. It would be nice to have an alternative automatic method that could cut down on the periodic thorough hand washings.
Appreciate any help on either question.
You could actually drill the holes while the holder is attached, and never hit the bumper. Then you could just use a couple of short self-tapping screws. However, this approach may require a significant leap of faith on your part:>)
I had running boards installed on my Taho, they are great, I use them to reach the the roof -car roof, that is-. Yes they do keep the dirt out off the lower door section. I am planing to add them to my Bravada, I have a canoe and like to be able to reach up to secure it.
Car wash, my neighbor just told me that he can't take it any more with dust and dirt, he got same color as mine, Onyx Black. He told me that a friend of his got his car coated with spray "glaze" or something like that, according to him, all the guy has to do is just hose it down, also he mentioned that no dust will stick to it after the rain. I wonder if any one know any thing about that coat and the cost of it?
-Alan
If you keep this truck I think you are asking for problems. There is a certain trust that goes with buying a new truck and GM has totally violated that trust and in my opinion does not deserve our business. They should and probably will do whatever we ask them (within reason) to make this right. A two year warranty and on star extension is reasonable if you want to take the risk of keeping your SUV. I would also ask for a free loaner for all future repair visits. I think you will need it. Refunds are also within reason.
If you are a GM lover, the best thing you do is make this recall very tough for them. This will only make them a better company and will make better SUVs available to you in the future. I hope that one day we can all buy a new GM model with confidence. Can't be done today!
They showed me the work that was done and the old parts (no difference). It was a three bolt replacement and a front end alignment.
A M re called me that evening to discuss the compensation package that was being offered to us. They are giving a 24month service plan, a 1 month extension on the warranty and a 3month On-Start extension. I also fought for having my first month payment reimbursed, having the warranty extended to 5 years/60K miles and running boards. They are getting back to me on Tuesday on a decision. She mentioned that regardless, every customer gets the first three things I mentioned. We'll see what happens.
My dealer drilled out the 2 stubs on the front backet of the license plate so it could be screwed in.
I accepted the 123 deal. I was not asked if I was then satisfied. The rep also possibly slipped by referring the call/offer as a survey. When I asked what she meant by that she said, they were asking if you had your truck back, if not, does the dealer have parts,etc., then the 123 offer. I stated clearly to her that I was still not satisfied even though I will take the 123 offer. She never said additional compensation is forfeited. When I asked if the one month bumper to bumper extension would also extended the miles. She had to ask and came back and said no. So the standard warranty is now 37 months, 36,000 miles. I also told her why I didn't think the 123 was enough. On Star I may never use anyway. Who wants to sit at the dealer for an hour or more for an oil change when you can get it done in 15 minutes at a quick change place (although I kinda prefer the dealer doing it for a while initially). And if I hit 36000 miles first, the extra month means squat. She also said the area dealers rep will be following up. Yeah right, I won't be holding my breath on that one.
Maybe I should have not accepted the offer as others stated and maybe getting it elevated to the next level whatever that is, however it came at a very bad time personally for me and I couldn't think straight.
Everyone should continue to let us know what happens. I still plan on a carefully crafted letter if I can find out where to send it.
2 = 2 years of "smartcare" from the dealer
3 = 3 month extension of free onstar.
Does that help?