Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • lbthedoglbthedog Member Posts: 198
    The oil pan is cast aluminum. The passage for the front cross shaft is cast into the pan. There are no additional seals involved. This was done to lower the front end. The front differential is bolted to the engine on the driver's side. On the passenger side is a support for the cross shaft and the front differential locker. The whole unit is extremely robust. The biggest liability is removal of the front differential. It's a real pain. The front axle drive shafts are just like those on a front wheel drive car, in other words, constant velocity joints are used. The "passing the shaft thru the pan" trick is new for GM. There's a good reason for this pan. The motor carries a lot of oil. More than 7 quarts. But oil changes have been extended, so there's a trade off. The motor uses the oil "phase" the exhaust cam. No rocket science, it's been done by other companies but not in trucks. Huge advantages for emissions controls by having cam timing control. Notice there's no EGR valve? 10 to 1 compression? Too bad GM hasn't put this motor in the C/K truck as a base engine. But since production is still relatively new, capacity will build and it will happen, depends on how strong TB/Envoy sales go.
  • paracanaryparacanary Member Posts: 14
    I bought the Bravada specifically for the air suspension and 3.7 axle. This is not available on the Envoy unless you get the 4.3 axle. I carry a 300# motorcycle on the receiver hitch and the ride is still smooth and level. I do not notice any excessive body roll on mountain roads when compared to my 95 explorer.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    rpageau, please send your comments and suggestions to Edmunds at editor@edmunds.com between now and June 1, 2001. (I don't have anything to do with the editorial side, btw, I just try to plug their stuff).

    glock40, thanks for the details; still a bummer about your new ride. Hope you don't take too big a bath getting rid of it.

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Looks like you have the standard GM front suspension noise package. GM is providing it at no additional charge on all their models now. It used to be that you couldn't get it, but in the last few years it has become ubiquitous.

    The first car to have this package as standard was the olds intrigue.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    ROTFLMAO
  • fletch45fletch45 Member Posts: 72
    I ordered a Trailblazer April 7th and finally, today I got a build date...June 11th! GM customer service says plan on 3 to 4 wks after that date for delivery. A little longer than the 6 to 8 weeks lead time quoted at the time I placed my order!
    I am trying to get the dealer to trade for a Trailblazer that matches my order on another lot (I found it through GM Buypower), but they don't seem too interested in doing it.

    Just something for those thinking of ordering to think about.
  • jeff237jeff237 Member Posts: 38
    It seems that the Envoy, TB, Bravado all have a six lug pattern that are custom to these SUV's. No manufacturer at this time is making wheels that fit any of these SUV's. Any thoughts?
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    When the oil gets changed in the new TB/Envoy is it necessary to reset something (computer) to signal that the oil was changed? I've heard a lot (two words) of stories of dealerships charging over $50 to reset something on GM vehicles so that you don't have to stare at a "change oil" light on the dash.

    HVAC question
    Normally I would go to a dealership to check something like this out, but none of the 4 Chevy dealerships (all within 15 miles of my house) have a TB to show me.... Do the rear controls work well for the HVAC? Can you get a lot of air through them? Do you have to crank up the front air to get decent airflow in the back?
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    You must have the lemon of all lemons there. Hope you don't tell whomever you sell your truck to all this stuff. Unfortunately you will take a big bath. I would get the stuff fixed rather than get into that tub.
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    Does anyone out there think that the LS rims should be on the LT, and the LT rims on the LS? The LS rims are all aluminum in color, while the LT rims are partially painted black? If you look at the TB brochure closely where they show the colors, it looks like the rims are all aluminum in color, but yet the vehicles are LT models.

    I think GM got the body side mouldings backwards too. Shouldn't the painted mouldings go on the uplevel LT rather than the lower LS? LS has painted mouldings, LT has black mouldings, then the LTZ has painted mouldings again - so, is the painted mouldings uplevel or not? Every other car/SUV I have shopped has consider painted mouldings uplevel...so, what's with GM doing the TB backwards?
  • jbossertjbossert Member Posts: 38
    You can reset the Oil Change Light by turning the key to ON and fully depressing the gas pedal three times within five seconds.

    The Rear HVAC cranks significant air, independent of the front level setting.

    I think that someone was smoking dope when they were making LS/LT trim decisions. And I want to know who was in charge of "hiding" the muffler, so that I can smack him silly.
  • richardc4richardc4 Member Posts: 33
    Someone screwed things up so take it back and make a lot of noise out in the service bay. There's something different about my Envoy but I haven't been able to figure out what it is. Not with suspension but there's just something that just doesn't seem right. It's almost as though the body has been damaged in a wreck. Jammed doors or some such thing. Hopefully I'm wrong. However, I was a professioal driver for many years and still have a feel for a vehicle.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The old Blazer was in dire need of being replaced. I can't believe GM waited so long given how big the truck market is. Now if they would just replace the 10 year old Cavalier and the Malibu, GM might gain some market share back.
  • kudronkudron Member Posts: 32
    Regarding the weatherstripping...I took my Envoy to the dealer yesterday to have some things fixed, including the rear passenger weather-stripping. The dealer's service director told me that "we had to trim about 1mm off the rear weather-stripping (on the door jamb, not the door) because it seems that they are too big". After exhaustive, post dealer consumer testing (I slammed the door about five times when I got home) that seems to have done the trick.

    I also had the dealer look at the center console because mine was bouncing around quite a bit when I hit any bumps on the road. It seems that the console was not secured to the floor. Putting some screws into the holes that were designed to get these screws did the trick (sarcasm mode off). I also needed to have the driver's side outside mirror assembly replaced because at night time, the auto-dimming feature would produce a very distorted image.

    I really have to question the quality control at GM Moraine. There seems to be a lot of minor defects (as well as the MAJOR recalled defect) with these vehicles. And surprisingly, with all of these minor defects, my Envoy was built on a Wednesday.
  • jhtjht Member Posts: 24
    I have the air suspension (it's a Bravada, ergo standard equipment), and I'm quite pleased with it compared to both my '96 Blazer and the '01 Explorer XLT I had as a recall rental. The Bravada shows a lot less lean than either the Blazer or Explorer and handles rough pavement much better. At highway speeds (in the 70+ range - I've only opened it up a couple of times), there can be a little bit of rear oscillation in hard crosswinds. It's disconcerting at first, because you don't notice it as a real oscillation in, say, the Blazer. But after taking the Blazer out again I realized it's because in equivalent conditions the Blazer's whole body oscillates - and more than the Bravada rear does.

    You will hear the occasional "whoosh" of the suspension pressurizing - it's very quiet and only makes a sound once in a while.

    When I first picked up my car, I had a fit/finish issue (a couple of gaskets in the rear out of place), and I had the same problem with the gauges all pegging to the right. I also had an airbag sensor light that would not go out. I left that day in a loaner and had the dealer attend to it - they figured out that the gauge problem was a computer issue (supposedly GM knows about it and will be working on a software fix), but the airbag sensor was bad and there were no parts to be had - so I made them swap that car for another one, which has been flawless to date (and was swept up in the recall the day after I picked it up, but that's over now...).

    I also had a 1st year Dodge Intrepid that had a computer issue - periodically all the warning lights would go on at once. The fix (until Dodge re-designed the computer module - their problem was a hardware issue) was to pull the fuse for the computer whenever I next shut down the car. Essentially, I had to reboot my car.

    -Josh
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    Very well stated!

    ...and thanks!
  • jbossertjbossert Member Posts: 38
    Has anyone noticed that their front wheel wells are not anchored to the fender? There are holes all along the lip of the fender, but no fasteners in the holes. I checked several other TB's on the lot and thay too do not have fasteners. Could someone check out their vehicle and let me know if this is by design, or just an early production "miss"?

    Thank.
  • ralforalfo Member Posts: 36
    jbossert, I have the Envoy and have the same thing. I noticed that all the Envoys in the dealer lot have fasteners missing. Maybe they had the holes cut, but then realized that they do not need them. I checked the wheel wells and they are solid. I will probably ask the dealer to place some fasteners there next time I'm in.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    I looked on my Bravada, and can't seem to locate where the holes that you describe are located. My front fenders don't have any holes in them, and the wheel well liner has no holes along the edges either. There are 3 holes with fasteners along the top of the liner right around where the front shock absorbers attach to the frame, but that is all.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    Air springs behave similarly to steel springs, but not exactly. Steel springs resist compression with a force linearly proportional to how much they are compressed. The farther they are compressed, the harder they push back. If you compress them twice as much, at that point they are pushing back with twice as much force.

    Air springs resist with force inversely proportional to the amount they are compressed (for cylindrical shaped air springs). This means that they don't increase their "push back" by a lot during the early part of suspension travel, but push back at increasingly higher forces as they are compressed further.

    While the behavior is very similar when the car is at equilibrium (not bouncing up and down), air springs provide a softer feel because of the progressive nature of their "push back". This makes the vehicle suspension more pliant initially as it goes around a turn (initial stages of roll) but then really resists roll after a certain amount of roll has taken place. The difference is obviously noticeable, otherwise why would there be two different systems. They are targeted at different market segments and are trying to achive different suspension characteristics. The only way to tell which one to go with is to test drive around a variety of driving situations that are typical of what one encounters day to day. Then decide what you like.

    On final point, the springs themselves are only part of the entire suspension tuning. Anti-roll torsion bars also control roll (more than the springs themselves), and the geometries of the suspension as it travels up/down along with the shocks also matter a lot. At the end of the day, one might not be able to tell the difference. If this is the case, air suspensions have the added feature of adjustable height and the air pump can be used to blow up beach balls (or inflatable kayaks!). Just think, you can go kayaking without having to lug something onto the roof rack and you don't even need to carry an extra air pump.

    Other
  • jeff237jeff237 Member Posts: 38
    Lyndell, my dealer called today. My running boards are in. I will get them installed on Monday. You should tell your dealer that they are available.

    Jeff
  • lyndellwlyndellw Member Posts: 31
    Jeff, thanks for the info on the running boards. I have ask GM to send me a set in place of the other things they have offered. If that tuns out negitive, I will enlighten my dealer that they are available.

    Lyndell
  • jeff237jeff237 Member Posts: 38
    Lyndell,

    Refer to post #917.

    Good Luck!!
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    It's good to see some humor has returned to this board, as that is probably as good an indicator as any that the agony over "the recall" may finally be ending. I especially enjoyed the dissertation on the air suspension, and the alternative usage for the pump to blow up beach balls (good job akajoe).

    Speaking of humor, I think I found GM's latest unintentional (or maybe intentional) attempt at humor. It's called the "Instant Fuel Economy" indicator on the DIC. That has got to be the goofiest thing I have ever seen on a vehicle. There has been so much discussion of fuel economy on the board lately, I checked those things on the DIC for the first time today. The instant indicator was making me dizzy it was going up and down so fast. Just when I thought it was starting to level off a little bit, I took my foot off the gas on a downgrade approaching a stoplight, and it jumped to 61MPG and back down to 3MPG when I applied the brakes, all in what seemed like a nanosecond. Somehow I think this feature was intended for highway driving at consistent speeds, and not for driving around town!

    I first though it might be broke, but the average fuel economy, and range indicators seemed to make sense. For what it's worth my average shows at 16.0 after 530 miles, and 98% of that being non-highway miles. I'm encouraged as that is everything since being built. I have never reset it.
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    I also noticed this early on with my TB, but kind of forgot about it after the recall. There is no doubt in my mind this is flat out a mistake. When I first noticed it, the fender and wheel well liners were pretty flush. There is a distinct separation now. The liner is definitely not going to fall off, but it should be attached to the fenders. The rear wheel well liners are attached to the fenders on my vehicle.

    I would suggest a call to the dealer before bringing a truck in to have this fixed. They may not have the necessary fastener readily available, and may have to order some. This is not just missing some screws! There is a fastener that fits over the wheel well liner that a self-tapping screw goes through to hold the whole thing in place.
  • trek1420btrek1420b Member Posts: 32
    I would love to go check my TB to see if I have this problem also. However my problem is I don't have it again! It is taking 2 days for them to fix the intermintent speaker buzz I was getting.
  • briandavisbriandavis Member Posts: 11
    On February 6, 2001, I ordered a new 2002 Bravada. The vehicle arrived at the dealership on Monday, April 2, 2001. as a result of my buisness schedule, I advised my dealer that I would pick the vehicle up on Friday, April 6, 2001. However, on Thursday, April 5, 2001, My dealer informed me that I could not pick up my vehicle as a result of the recall.

    My vehicle is still at the dealership as a result of no parts. The dealer indicated that I should be able to pick the vehicle up by the end of the week. While eveyone is driving around in their new suv's. My brand new, ordered Bravada sits idled at the dealership. Although the vehicle was never delivered, I feel that I should be compensated for my wait and inconvenience.
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    I looked at 8 TBs at a dealership today and every one of them had holes in the fenders. I also noticed that the wheel well liners didn't have holes, but did have a V shape cut out which almost matched up to where the fenders holes are. Of course the salesman had no clue, so we got the service manager out to look at the situation. Well, he had no clue either. My best guess is that these holes are the remnants of GM's aborted attempt of attaching the fenders to the wheel wells (as they should be).

    It is really a shame that GM shields themselves from fielding questions by pointing their customers toward their clueless dealerships.
  • glock40glock40 Member Posts: 8
    I glad to hear that I am not the only one out there with the gauge problem. I thought it was just my vehicle that was cursed. I will pass on the information to my service manager. I wonder if they have a fix for it yet? Who knows maybe this will be the issue where lemon law comes into play.

    As far as four wheel drive not working the dealership stated it might be a solinoid or battery?

    It will be also interesting to see how they fix the weatherstripping on the rear doors.

    My vehicle also has those hole in the wheel wells without fastners for those who are interested. GM should be paying me for Testing and evaluating this vehicle because thats what I feel like I am doing. I have spent more time in a rental than in my own Envoy. Pretty sad!
  • flynjflynj Member Posts: 2
    If one looks at the trailblazer brochure, one can see that the two-tone LTZ's have wheel moldings that cover the fenders openings. I would surmise that the "missing" fasteners are only used for this option. Has Anybody seen one in person? The Oldsmobiles don't appear to have any holes...probably because there's no molding available. Why the Envoy, though, I can't guess.
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    Just look at the rear fender wells and you will be able to see how the liner is supposed to be attached. There is a clip that fits over the liner where the notches are cut. The notches line up with the fender holes, and a self-threading screw goes through the fender holes and the clip, which then draws the liners tight to the fender. It just makes no sense to have the holes in the fenders & the notches cut in the liners if you didn't intend to use them. Like I said in an earlier post, the liners aren't going to fall off as a result of the missing screws, but the gap betwen the fender & liner is getting larger.

    Netsolstice....they are definitely not drainage holes.
  • jbossertjbossert Member Posts: 38
    rpageau - The wacky Instant Mileage "feature" has been around for a long time. I remember seeing it on Cadillac's many moons ago. The only time I look at it is when I have Cruise Control set on the highway. It's interseting to see what a slight incline in the highway does to the mileage.

    You hit the nail on the head with regard to the fender fasteners. The rear wells are fastened correctly. I suspect that the front fasteners are missing on the Bravada's as well, but the owner's don't know it because there are body moldings covering it up. I'm going to give my dealer (who also happens to be clueless) a call today to discuss. I'll post the results.
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    jbossert - "Thanks" for mentioning that the muffler stands out, now that's the first thing I see when I look at the back of a TB. Better keep a can of black high temp spray paint handy...when the paint starts to wear off the muffler, it's going to look even worse.
  • markm2002markm2002 Member Posts: 10
    GM sent me the repurchase settlement for my Envoy, should have my check in a week. I am pleased with the way GM has handled my case after the initial stone-walling against a refund. Maybe I will try the Envoy again next year after the kinks are worked out. It is a great vehichle. Best of luck to all you Envoy, TB, and Bravada owners!
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    Having had Cadillacs for many years, like "jbossert" said, this has been around for many years. There is nothing wrong with it constantly changing, that is reality. As the many factors of MPG change (fuel requested, MPH, outside forces on the vehicle) your MPG changes. This can be a useful feature actually. If you look at it often enough you will notice how the instant MPG changes by the way you drive. If you speed out of a stop, you see the MPG drop to a dismal rate. If you ease out of a stop, you will see it raise. It's a way to constantly keep you mindful of the fact that the way you drive (not just whether you are in the city or highway) have a large influence on your MPG.

    By the way, I finally get to take deliver of my Bravada today!!!! I was getting angry because the MC dealership next door was getting all kinds of repair kits and my dealer had 9 new Bravada's (4 of them sold, as mine was)waiting for the kits.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    That should of been "GMC dealership". Darn that spell-check feature!!!!
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    I have looked and looked on my Bravada, and don't see any holes in fenders in the front. There is no molding on the front fenders - the flaring of the fenders is formed with the sheet metal. I also don't see notches cutout in the wheel well liners. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place - I am looking at the edge of the wheel well where the sheet metal folds to form a lip, and where the plastic liner meets the metal. The rear fenders don't have holes as well.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    I took another comprehensive look at the wheel wells on my Bravada. There is not a single hole in any sheet metal in the wheel wells - with or without a fastening screw, front or rear. The front of the front fender terminates at the front bumper which wraps around to form the rest of the wheel well toward the front. The front fender sheet metal extends all the way to the back to form the rest of the wheel well opening, flaring outward to match the plastic cladding on the doors (but this flaring is moulded into the steel fender, nothing is covered) - no holes. Plastic fenderl liners in front have no holes or cutouts. The mounting points toward the inside of the wheel well near the frame.

    In the rear, the only holes with screws (2 of them) fastening the fender liner in place are on the wraparound rear bumper which is plastic. The sheet metal of the fenders as well as the liners have no holes or cutouts.

    Am I missing something?
  • md9360md9360 Member Posts: 4
    A test drive of the Bravada in Car and Driver had the Bravada's 70 to 0 stopping distance as 191 feet, ten feet less than the 2002 Explorer. A comparison of the Trailblazer and the Explorer had the Trailblazer going from 60 to 0 in 127 feet, the Explorer in 120 feet. Is there any explanation for the difference?
  • jbossertjbossert Member Posts: 38
    hambone7 - Sorry for pointing out the hideous cannister under our vehicles. Unlike getting a song stuck in your head......that damn muffler isn't going away anytime soon.

    akajoe - GM states that the 3 vehicles only share something like 30% of the sheet metal. Your fenders must not be part of that 30%. It sounds like you don't have anything to worry about.
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    Do most of y'all have the limited slip diff? I am going to order a TB and need to know if it's worth it.

    Also, same question on the traction control...

    On the subject of the traction control, the option adds a button on the dash of the TB to turn it on and off...if one had the traction control, why would one turn it off? Are there circumstances where you wouldn't want the benefit of traction control? Does it add overhead to the vehicle when turned on?
  • jeff237jeff237 Member Posts: 38
    With 700 total miles on my Envoy and a mix of highway & city driving, I got the following results on my last tank of gas.

    228 miles traveled.
    14.2 gallons used.
    Produced 16.05 miles per gallon.

    My DIC said 15.0
  • jbossertjbossert Member Posts: 38
    hambone7: If you live where it snows, I highly recommend the Limited Slip. I had it on my 98' Tahoe and it came in handy in those occasional nasty Chicago snowstorms. Most folks don't realize that 4WD doesn't mean that all 4 wheels get power when you get stuck.
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    I pushed my dealership about the holes and they pinned down a guy in the parts department that looked in a book for the answer. According to him, there will be a pair of fender flares produced sometime in the near future that will bolt to the front fenders. Because of the way the quarter panels and the rear doors meet there is no way there could be flares put on the back. Personally, I don't know how a TB would look with flares on the front but not on the back. Anyway, that is what I was told...and I live in Atlanta. So...if someone else out there can get their dealership to tell them the same story then it looks like the mystery is solved.
  • rroman8420rroman8420 Member Posts: 23
    markm2001: I just spoke with the GM Customer assistance center "again"; this was the 2nd time with them and 2 times with Oldsmobile (I have a Bravada), and this guy told me that (quote) "GM has not and will not repurchase any vehicles related to this control arm recall and that the recall campaign letter is their assurance that GM has properly fixed the SUV and will stand behind this repair". Apparently he is lying to me. I wonder if anyone else has had their vehicles repurchased. Also, is it GM or the dealer buying it back? Another thing that made me mad was that they will not be sending anything in writing showing that the warranty is extended 1 more month. He said the VIN reference in their computer and at the dealership will show all warranties starting as of May 1, 2001. Since they figure all affected cars were purchased in March or early April that basically gives us 30 addtional days (the time we all did not even have our cars). So I asked for this in writing and they said they will not send this! I'd like to hear from everyone else to see if they are getting the same arrogant attitude from GM.

    Ron
  • 9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    Traction control works by reducing power/applying brakes to stop wheel spin .... LImited slip ensures that both tires have power applied to them.

    I have both in my Camaro and have learned to appreciate them. I would order both ... but I think Traction Control is only avaible with the 2wd.

    As a side note ... traction control does not control traction ... it limits wheelspin.
  • 9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    My dealer has the Envoy ordered with "my name on it" in stock now. Had it out for a couple of hours yesterday. It's a fully loaded 4x4 SLT, black, light pewter interior, polished wheels and 4.10 gears. A most stunning vehicle in my opinion.

    I could not find any of the faults .. panel misalignments, loose console, loose rear door weatherstripping .. mentioned here on it.
    To the best of my knowledge it was built before the shutdown, but stayed at the plant and had the recall work done there. It drove very nicely though I would prefer a more X5 like handling package.

    Any other things I should look out for?

    Anyone know what mechanical modifications the actual Indy Pace Bravada received?
  • rroman8420rroman8420 Member Posts: 23
    markm2001: I just spoke with the GM Customer assistance center "again"; this was the 2nd time with them and 2 times with Oldsmobile (I have a Bravada), and this guy told me that (quote) "GM has not and will not repurchase any vehicles related to this control arm recall and that the recall campaign letter is their assurance that GM has properly fixed the SUV and will stand behind this repair". Apparently he is lying to me. I wonder if anyone else has had their vehicles repurchased. Also, is it GM or the dealer buying it back? Another thing that made me mad was that they will not be sending anything in writing showing that the warranty is extended 1 more month. He said the VIN reference in their computer and at the dealership will show all warranties starting as of May 1, 2001. Since they figure all affected cars were purchased in March or early April that basically gives us 30 addtional days (the time we all did not even have our cars). So I asked for this in writing and they said they will not send this! I'd like to hear from everyone else to see if they are getting the same arrogant attitude from GM.

    Ron
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    Thanks!!

    So...do you leave traction control on all the time in your Camaro? Is it inefficient if you are just cruising down the highway on a sunny day?

    BTW I am getting a 2WD.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    You would want to turn off the traction in certain situations when you were stuck. Traction Control senses wheel spin and transfers more power to the wheels with traction. This is according to the sources I have read (I have never been in this situation).
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