Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • BushwackBushwack Member Posts: 258
    You say...
    This is my first custom order. Since this is my first brand new car, I want to get what I really want, so I am willing to wait. On the other hand, if any special financing deals come up during the time you are waiting, your dealer should be able to apply those to your purchase.

    Isn't GM financing contingent from buying off of the dealer's lot? I don't think special orders will qualify for any delaer incentives/financing.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Just saw a bravada commercial touting its 270 hp engine.

    It said that the 5/60,000 mile warranty is available until 10/01/02. That's a long time away.

    Anybody want to take any bets about olds being around for the 2003 model year?
  • ttrimnell1ttrimnell1 Member Posts: 8
    Zeen:
    You're right, if you actually study the fineprint very closely it says that the examples are based on a survey and that each dealer sets its own price. It doesn't say specifically whether it's based on the MSRP or something in between invoice and sticker. I had my salesman figure out the terms and then he had his manager doublecheck it, both times the figures matched. Because obviously this was a lot cheaper than the Envoy, I didn't want to jinx the deal and ask a lot of questions. This way when the truck arrives and if the dealership says that they goofed up and the payments are actually higher than what they told me at first, then I can argue that they should give it to me for their quoted price. If they don't, I'll just get my deposit back and walk out of there. When the Bravada arrives, I will get specific numbers and let you know what's going on.
  • svmansvman Member Posts: 25
    Are there any of these out there yet? All I see are AWD. I'm in So. CA.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Haven't seen any yet. We don't need 4wd here in the south, plus i don't wan't to pay the gas mileage penalty that comes with 4wd.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I think I read somewhere that the priority was to get 4WD models out first as they are the biggest sellers. Not sure if that is true.
  • 9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    #1017 - the Bravada AWD is the Envoy/Trailblazer Autotrack with the 2WD, 4 Hi and 4 Low removed. It is NOT a full time system as the Bravada used to have. Check the Bravada forum, Kay Jarboe said as much.

    #1021 - 4.10 gears in a 6 speed Camaro is no big deal. 2,000 rpm = 74 mph. I am positive we will still get 20% better mileage with our 350 HP, 4.10 geared Camaro than this SUV Trilogy. Hopefully, we will know for sure after the weekend.

    All these lease discussions are very interesting. Spending $20 on a basic financial calculator (e.g.. Texas Instruments BA-35) would allow you to do all your own figuring. What is needed is MSRP on the vehicle, the residual value (49% of MSRP on a 36 month, 20,000 annual kilometer (12,500 miles) lease and 43% on 48/20,000), the initial cap cost (the price the dealer is selling the vehicle to the leasing company at, it should be the best cash price you can negotiate), the term, the interest rate, and down payment/trade-in. Leases are a "DUE" calcuation (payments made at the beginning of each month).

    Something else to consider is that if you have the cash, but want to lease, prepaid leases save a bundle in interest costs. Here in Canada, where personal use of company supplied vehicles is taxable at a far higher value on purchased vehicles than on leased, this is a very attractive option.
  • fdogsfdogs Member Posts: 9
    I was ready to do a deal on a 2002 Bravada over the weekend, but the salesman advised me to sit tight for a few days, as he is expecting a rebate any day now. He couldn't (or wouldn't) say anymore, but he said GM would be doing it now that all the vehicles have been repaired (or at least the parts are in to do the repairs) as a way to stimulate sales after the recall.

    Anybody else hear anything about this?
  • briandavisbriandavis Member Posts: 11
    I finally took delivery of my Bravada on Friday,May 11, 2001. I have a two year Lease with an additional 5k miles. The additional miles cost $400.00. So that means I have 35,000 miles to play with. My monthly payments are $496.00. The vehicle was ordered with the GM discount (GMO) and $1500 loyalty certificate. The rate was 3.0 APR. The MSRP was $36.474, with all the discounts the price was reduced to about $29.735
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    If fdogs is right, it should definitely liven this board up again in a hurry :>)
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I was comparing tire size and its effect on rpm's.
    The camaro's 6 speed is .50. The triplets fourth gear is .70. Quite a difference in final drive.
    But the taller tire will negate some of this difference. It is off the line where the taller tire hurts acceleration.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    ...Oldsmobile will be around until at least 2005. They have franchise leases until then (extended from whatever they were at the time of the press release for each franchisee) and it would cost them, literally, millions of dollars to terminate the leases early. My mother owns an Oldsmobile dealership (as well as several other GM dealerships) and the contract they made with the franchisees is pretty much iron-clad. There has been some talk of the Bravada version being adopted by Cadillac as an alternative to those who want the brand in an suv without wanting an Escalade. I had a feeling about Buick but now that they have the new Rendevous I'm not sure. These trucks certainly don't have the fit/finish quality to be a Buick or Cadillac though. They will need to do some work.

    More questions for other Bravada owners:
    Does your air compressor for the suspension make a lot of noise?
    Does anyone have a problem closing the rear hatch? If I don't SLAM mine, extra hard, it won't latch.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,368
    Went cruising the local GM dealers yesterday looking for Bravadas/TBs/Envoys, in part to check on the panel fits and also because I have yet to see one of these in the flesh. Nada. Not a single one in inventory at any of 3 dealers. Wonder what the scoop is? These dealers had plenty of Jimmys etc., so maybe they've loaded up on those at the expense of the new model.

    Here in Nova Scotia the dealers have lots of el-cheapo Cavaliers and Sunfires in inventory but not a whole lot else. I did see several Grand Prix "special edition" supercharged cars, both coupe and sedan, with some unique alloy wheels and they looked very, very good. The GP is the only car I know where the 4-door looks better than the 2-door.

    Also, re. the statement that Olds will be around to 2005, don't you believe it. By then they will have only a single product to sell, and how many dealers can survive on that? Even Gus Buenz, Olds PR, admitted in a statement the other week that he doesn't think it'll be that long either. I would bet that the 2003 season will be the last.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    As I understand it, only Aurora and Bravada will make it to 2005. Sad as Oldsmobile has the best GM line up.

    ab348 : Only seen Envoy's in southern Ontario. Saw an ad for Trailblazers up in north Toronto though.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    2002 will be the last year for the intrigue. I don't see any olds' being built after 2003.
    They are losing money now, why keep building?
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    fdogs:
    My dealer knows nothing about any incentives. What part of the country do you live in?
  • jhtjht Member Posts: 24
    I don't have to slam it (the hatch) hard, but I do have to give it a good push. The glass closes easily, but the hatch itself (when closed too gently) feels like the car is trying to haul it the rest of the way in, but can't.

    One nice touch the rental Explorer had (and one of the few things I prefered to my Bravada) was a handhold on the edge of the liftgate - it made it easy to slam the lift hard enough. The strap is kind of wimpy.

    As for the suspension, every once in a while I'll hear a very quiet hiss that lasts a second or two. If the sound system is cranked up (which I will admit I have done a few times - I really like it), I don't hear it at all, and if there's a couple of people talking or something it's usually not noticable at all.

    Overall, after a couple of weeks I'm still very happy with it. I'm at about 450 miles, and it seems to be breaking in nicely - the engine is noticeably quieter at idle (from outside - I can't hear it at all from inside the cabin), and the shifting is getting smoother as well.
  • aleasealease Member Posts: 22
    I ordered an Envoy on April 25, I just called GMC and they say my order has not been approved yet and therefore they could not give me a date on delivery. Fletch45 mentioned a while back that it could take 16-18 weeks to get one built. Has anyone else experienced this long a wait? There are two available at different dealerships but they have some extras I wasn't interested in, if I decide not to wait am I entitled to demand my deposit back?
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    An olds dealer in NC told me to expect a delivery time of 10-14 weeks.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    The strap needs to be nylon, and there needs to be a place to grab on the edge of the hatch to slam the door shut without getting your hands dirty.

    I'm thinking of getting some nylon strapping, and adding it to the vinyl strap looping inside the strap to reinforce it. Some rubber edging on the door edge might help with having a place to grab the hatch on the way down.
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    It appears something is brewing with GM SUV incentives. See Autonews.com

    "General Motors is prepared to put heavy incentives on its jewels - large pickups and sport-utilities - to gain light-vehicle market share this year, according to Ron Zarrella, president of GM North America."
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    Does the Vortec 4200 use regular gas?
  • etharmonetharmon Member Posts: 399
    Anybody here have a 2002 Bravada, Envoy, or Trailblazer? If so, how do you like it and what did you have before it? Also, do the low finance rates which Olds is offering on their other cars apply to the 2002 Bravada as well? Some of you may recognize me from over in the Intrigue forum. The lease on that baby is just about up and while I've never really considered an SUV, the more reviews I read on the new GM 360 SUVs, the more I'm tempted to at least consider one. I have yet to find a Trailblazer at a dealer, but the local Olds-GMC dealer does have both a Bravada and an Envoy. What is sad is that I think the Bravada is the best looking of the three and it will be the one that is the most short lived. The Envoy isn't bad either though. Actually, they are all three pretty good looking and whats under the hood seems very impressive from what I've read.
  • fabinakfabinak Member Posts: 6
    It seems much of the quality problems are associated with the Envoy, but the Bravada, and TB use essentially the same underpinnings built at the same factory. Why does the Envoy get a worse rap than the others? I think it is the better looking of the three.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    b4z : Intrigue will stop building in late 2002, but it's been confirmed there will be a 2003 model. They can probably build the whole year's supply in a few months. As for the other models, Aleros are selling well and Bravada should also. Olds will go till at least 2005.

    netsolstice : Complaints seem to be centered around gaps in the body cladding. Since they are made of plastic, they probably need space to expand from temperature change Maybe GM is a little cautious, but I don't think it's a sign of poor quality. These trucks seem very well built.

    zeen : Yup.. regular 87 octane.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I think that GM is allowing too much space for the door to open with added on body cladding. This is why the gap is so large on the right side of the car. They seem to have done the left side okay. If they can do the left side, why can't they also do the right side?

    I still believe that there will be no new oldsmobiles after the 2003 model year. It would serve no purpose for GM to keep on building them if they are losing money. They are definitely losing money on the intrigue.

    I still believe that the bravada is the best looking SUV on the road today. It just seems that they have these fit and finish issues that can't be resolved. If i were UAW i would be embarrased to let some of these vehicles out of the door.
  • jhtjht Member Posts: 24
    Yep - 87 Octane is fine according to the manual, and that's all I've used to date. It runs fine on regular gas - no knock or anything.
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    That's good news. I'm about to lease an Envoy and it occurred to me that premium fuel would be a significant consideration, especially since I have been considering some less guzzling alternatives. I know the Mercedes and QX4 use premium and with their mileage, it's a big hit to the wallet.
  • 9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    Black SLT with all the options (o:


    I have not found any of the reported problems ... gaps, loose weatherstripping etc.


    I will spend the next couple of evenings detailing it so I should come across most of the "niggles" that may be there.


    Here's a picture: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=124100&a=936093&p=48519563&Sequence=0&res=med

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I don't see Oldsmobile going to 2007 as scheduled, but 2005 is not unrealistic. Intrigue's end has been announced for 2003 model year and Alero for 2004. While the incentives are hurting the bottom line, I'm not sure that they are loosing money over all.

    As for fit and finish issues, I have only seen 3 Envoys and I inspected them closely. Quality was very good and on par with Pathfinders and Explorers.
  • billsoterbillsoter Member Posts: 49
    I ordered a 2002 Bravada on March 8. According to the salesman it apparently was built right after production was resumed. On April 30 he confirmed that it was "en route", on May 10th he confirmed through the factory rep that it had been "put on a train in Ohio". No car as yet! Am I being jerked around or is this normal delivery time?
  • wboatrwboatr Member Posts: 5
    My dealer called on May 3rd and said my Envoy was "in transit". I called this morning, May 15, and they still don't know where it is. I live in Va.--one day's drive from Ohio. Anybody heard of a load of Envoys being hijacked? Oh, well, one of these days it will get here!
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    My dealer got in some new trailblazers today. One is pewter and the other is a black LTZ with all the buttons. They are really attractive trucks. Didn't notice any panel fit problems like those that plague the bravada.

    I don't like the graining on the dashboard though, really cheap looking.

    Also the windshield looks lile a mailslot. Not tall enough.

    Those are my only complaints. I think that they will be a huge success.
  • aleasealease Member Posts: 22
    Did you happen to order your envoy through Bill Hudgins? Every time I talk to them they mention that they have ordered one for Mr. Reed and his is on its way. Could this Mr. Reed possibly be you? Please do let us know when yours comes in, I will feel much better knowing they do actually exist.
  • briandavisbriandavis Member Posts: 11
    I have had my bravada for several days, and I find no quality problems with gaps or plastic cladding. This vehicle is well built.
  • beach15beach15 Member Posts: 1,305
    About a week before the recall, a local dealer here in Delaware had a pewter and an indigo blue Bravada. Then they disappeared until I saw them sitting out back all dirty for a little over a month. This morning went I went by, there was a pewter and a black Bravada side-by-side out near the highway and about 6-7 others parked in a line beside some minivans. They just kind of all appeared in a matter of a day. The little brackets must have taken a while to get here or something. They seem like cool SUV's and that straight six is just great. I don't know about the build quality but even from the road, I could see some wide gaps between the panels. Maybe if you give them a few more months or so, the gaps will get smaller. I have a 2000 Chrysler 300M that was $32,000 but my mother's base 99' Old's Intrigue has much tighter, better fitting panels and feels more solid.
  • etharmonetharmon Member Posts: 399
    I had a crazy thought. Imagine how wonderful it would be to wake up one one morning and realize that Olds isn't going anywhere and that their demise was all just a bad dream. Dealers' lots would be full of Intrigues, Aleros, Auroras, and 2002 Bravadas. Saw the red Bravada sitting in front of the dealer when I drove by today. More and more I'm thinking; one of those sure would look nice parked in my driveway. Even now nearly 6 months after the decision was made, it bugs me that an excellent line of cars is being dropped because of low sales yet half baked crap like Mazda, Mitsubishi, and Kia are having sales increases. And dullards like the Camry, Accord, and Taurus still sell in droves. What gives! Do people just not want cars that are actaully enjoyable to drive these days? I can see it now, BMW sales will fall next. I guess the cell phone, pda, and other crap has taken precedence over the joy of taking a sharp curve at a good clip with confidence.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Unfortunately Oldsmobile's death is a done deal. I love my Intrigue and we can't afford a Bravada for my wife when her lease is up. We may get a Trailblazer if they put some incentives on it by early next year. The Bravada and Aurora are especially nice vehicles and I hope GM can save them for use in other divisions. Of the three SUVs, Bravada's interior is the best.
  • wboatrwboatr Member Posts: 5
    That's me---Have you ordered from Hudgins too? What are they giving you for a delivery time? I rode by the dealership Sunday and they had three on the lot---interesting, in that they seem to have trouble getting ordered units.
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    Just leased a Pewter SLE today with the 1SD equipment package...pretty basic but all that I need.
    The best I could do with $3500 down (GM cuoupon and GM points) plus first month payment was $395/mo. before the punitive 9% PA tax.
    My dealer says they are really selling well now and doubts there will be any incentives prior to the fall.
    My thanks to all of you who provided helpful information on this board.
  • bharlinbharlin Member Posts: 5
    Hi gang,
    Went by the local chevy dealer yesterday and
    test drove a 2002 TB....Man what a beauty.
    I gotta have that vehicle.Dilemma..dealer
    is asking msrp and nothin better.I have not
    purchased a new redesigned model year before.
    Is this common pratice to receive full msrp.
    I dont want to spend a lotta time contacting
    other dealers in my area if its not gonna get
    me anywhere. Any input on what you guys paid
    would be most appreciated. I live in alabama
    and i am looking to purchase not lease.
    Bill
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    bharlin:
    Don't pay MSRP. On the Envoy they offered $300 over invoice. The TB's are newer but if you wait and even get some price quotes on the internet (Edmunds, Carpoint etc) you'll do a lot better.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    There are places selling for less than MSRP, but if there is tight supply and lots of demand in your are, the dealer can probably charge you MSRP if he wants to.
  • earlcearlc Member Posts: 34
    Don't, don't fall for that dealer MSRP crap. They tried that on me and I laughed at them about 4 weeks ago. They are now calling me with offers as low as $200. over dealer invoice. These vehicles are not selling well due to all the bad publicity and with patience and some negotiating you can make you a really good deal. I am in Georgia and the dealers are swamped with these vehicles.
  • bharlinbharlin Member Posts: 5
    Thanks for heads up i must admit i am somewhat of
    of a impulse buyer i will shop around and wait
    to see if gm offers any kinda of year end rebate.
    I read a lot of prior posts on the envoy.I would
    like to know what the tb'rs think about there tb's.I got so excited test driving i thought i
    was gonna pass out..
    bill
  • blefflerbleffler Member Posts: 22
    I paid $200 under invoice from my Bravada I received last weekend.

    You may want to check out www.southerngm.com. They also sell at $200 under invoice for Pontiac/GMC/Olds.

    I used this site as a tool to get a better deal with the local dealers. I can recommend a dealer in central ohio if interested.
  • tjay1911tjay1911 Member Posts: 10
    I guess gmc doesn't really want to sell their new suv. My wife and I visited two dealerships today. We were told by the first dealer that it would take 16-18 weeks for our car to arrive. He mentions this just as we are prepared to give him our deposit. My wife then replies no way and so we leave. We visit a second dealer and he says 7-8 weeks. Then he says but I can't promise you that. He said it might take longer because my wife wants the oak interior. Needles to say we took our money and headed home. Now my wife wants to get the Lexus RX300. I hope I can convince her to change her mind.

    I can't understand why it would take gmc so long to make a car. Why don't they tell that the oak interior is really not available. I have not seen one Envoy with that interior.
  • rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    I've had a TB almost 2 months now. Well actually, I picked it up 3/26, lost it 4/5, picked it up again on 4/25, and have had it since. I love the vehicle, and have had none of the complaints registered on this board. No squeaks, no rattles, no excessive gaps, no loose center console, no flapping weather-stripping, no right-pinning gauges, etc.

    The powertrain is nothing short of spectacular. My only complaints so far are somewhat excessive wind noise at the A-pillar(this hopefully will be correctable when I go back to the dealer), and a somewhat "clunky" transmission (seems to be getting better with time). This engine cries out for a wide-range 5 speed, and I can't imagine why they didn't come up with one.

    As far as price goes, that is easy. Just go to CarsDirect.com, and price what you want(or what you want off their lot). They should be about $900-$1000 over invoice, which is still considerably below MSRP. Take that to your dealer, and you should be able to get $300-$400 better at a minimum. They can make a lot more selling to you at that price, than they can wholesaling the vehicle to CarsDirect.com. They don't like doing that, but generally will. There are also referral services on the net that just provide the negotiating service. I used the CarsDirect.com approach, and got a decent deal ($665 over invoice). I'm sure I could have squeezed a few hundred more out of them, but it just wasn't worth my time to prolong the process, especially since I had $2800 more in GM Card earnings to apply.

    Bottom line: You don't have to pay MSRP, and you don't have to wait for year end incentives. Go for it!

    Of course, everything I said above changes if you plan on trading in another vehicle......
  • ducatist4ducatist4 Member Posts: 28
    We got our Bravada on 3/24, lost it on 4/5 also, and got it back on 4/24. It came back with two door dings and two chips, ouch!! The dealer fixed them nicely and threw in mud flaps.

    Our rear window exploded on a windy day, has anyone heard of similar problems?? Replaced under warranty which is nice.

    We love having the SUV back. It has 1400 miles and the gas mileage is improving. Now we get 15 mpg in the city. Not a problem with it.

    It tows my two motorcycles and enclosed trailer without a problem (2500 lbs). Smoother than my older Tahoe.

    Don't pay MSRP, I bought for $150 invoice in March and than threw in lots of rebate dollars and my loyalty check. Our dealer has 4 Envoys on the lot and now six Bravadas.

    I didn't look but the salesman said you can get a "heads-up" display as an option, I don't remember that.

    One thing I noticed is that dealer ivoice has fallen since re-issuing the SUV's. Our Bravada was 32250 at invoice, now the manager showed me that for a dealer invoice of 32700 approximately you can get the same SUV with a sunroof and 6-disc changer, so you probably can't expect a dramatic incentive now. He says the cahnge MSRP base prices up or down depending how well the car is selling. 2 months after I bought my 2001 aurora the base msrp was 300-400 dollars less.

    Finally, sorry. The manager showed my a fax which was from GM stating that starting next year the six cyclinder in the Intrigue and v-6 aurora will no longer be manufactured.

    Drive safe
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Will the 3.5 not be produced for the 2002 model year? Or did it say that they will stockpile engines in 2001 for the 2002 build?
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