Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

doc35

To have leather "seating surfaces" v. full leather seats is not uncommon. You will notice that some cars do have "full leather seats" which is exactly what it means. One advantage is that you do not have to worry about constantly trying to clean and treat the leather right next to the console where you cannot fit your hand conveniently. Also, the cloth or vinyl or whatever will actually fare better where you are not sitting with no maintenance and you still get the benefit of leather where it matters, against you and your skin.

Just my opinion of course. I currently have an Audi with "full leather seats" and it is a lot of work to maintain, and somewhat painful sometimes trying to contort to clean and condition all of the leather.

kirk

rpageau

Jeff...You need to get out more. This little trick has been going on for years. My '95 Blazer was the first time time I actually noticed a change from all-leather, but it could have easily started earlier. And it is not just GM doing it. Same thing on the Ford Explorer, and the Toyota Highlander. They all use clever variations of "leather trim" wording, but it all means the same thing. A true all-leather seating option for these vehicles would probably run over $2000.

Oh yeah, if you think that inconspicuous cloth piece is bad, guess what the backs of your seats are made of. I hate to ruin your day, but they are a form of vinyl (cleverly disguised as leather).

dindak

Dropped my car off for a oil change and saw a black 2002 Bravada on the lot. What a beauty! It's really a toss up between the Envoy and Bravada in terms of up scale looks. I think I will give the nod to Oldsmobile.

mfullmer

Just about every American made car and most imports have "leather seating surfaces". Anytime you have FULL leather seats (even Mercedes only offers these as a $++++ option)it is an [very expensive] extra cost item. The fact is, while leather feels and actually wears much better than vinyl/cloth, it doesn't look that good with time unless you maintain it exhaustively. Take the leather seats in my '96 Blazer I turned in before getting the Bravada, it actually had leather, vinyl and cloth! After 5 years the leather (and yearly maintenance) looked like crap.

They put leather on the seating areas, vinyl on the upper sides and back, and cloth on the side by the console. (By the way, they use cloth there so that you don't get "rubbing noises" like you would with vinyl.) I hate to dissappoint you but your car has vinyl on the backs of the seats as well as the outboard side.

It is simply too cost prohibitive and maintenance prohibitive to put full leather seating in an automobile that goes through the temperature ranges and abuse that a vehicle puts it through.

No one is ripping you off, it's just the way things are done.

rthammer

From a fully loaded LT to a fully loaded LTZ there is approx. a $1280.00 jump in MSRP. In reviewing all the standard equip. as well as the options, I only see a difference of; no heated seats option on the LT, and 17" wheels and tires on the LTZ. Are these differences worth the 1280 bucks, or am I overlooking something?

I am very interested in buying a TB, but am not sure which way to go. Any help along this line will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ron Hammer

doc35

One other difference is the external trim pieces on the LTZ are body coloured v. black. The leather seats are two-tone on LTZ v. single colour on LT. Avail two-tone exterior on LTZ, not on LT. Also avail on LTZ only---> Rainsense wiper, integrated side turn indicators in mirror housing, steel spare wheel v. black painted aluminum wheel, different tires 245/65/17 Blackwall (v. OWL avail on LT)

I believe that sums it up.

Kirk

teo

Boltaflex.

bleffler

My Bravada is my first SUV. What are people using to secure their spare tire?

hambone7

doc35 missed one small item: The chrome trim on the front of the LT is painted the body color on the LTZ.

pbshann

Edmunds.com lists 3.9 / 4.9 / and 5.9% financing for the 2002 TrailBlazer starting from 5/19 to 7/2. Does anyone know if this is accurate as I have not seen this offer anywhere else, even from my Chevy dealer!?

pbshann

I have been reading this board since the beginning but have only deciced to post now that I am getting ready to order my new TrailBlazer. I was wondering if owners liked the auto airconditioning and the driver's info center that comes with it on the TB. Is is worth the $500 price and is it useful. Also I saw several posts before about GMO and GMS pricing. While I know what GMS is and qualify for GMS plus 4%, I have never heard of GMO, does anyone know what this is? Thanks for your help in advance!

zeen

The dealers find out about the incentives at the last minute, often later than the public does. They usually don't get early warning. Chances are it's for real. Edmunds lists it as applying to the Envoy as well. I assume it also applies to the Bravada. It does not appear to apply to lease rates.

As for Drivers Info Center and automatic a/c, I don't have it on my Envoy and I don't feel that I'm missing anything. I have it on my BMW and it's generally useless. I can make the Envoy quite comfortable without the automatic climate control. Further, the more sophisticated computer stuff you have in the vehicle, the more that can go wrong. Just think how much it would cost to repair one of those systems if it broke after expiration of the warranty.

fdefulvio

I've had automatic climate control in my 98 Grand Prix GTP and love it. It works just like the thermostat in your house. Set the temp and you're done. My wife's Alero has the standard climate control and I'm constantly adjusting the controls. Too hot, too cold, turn it up, turn it back down ... The electronics involved are so simple I can't imagine ever having a problem, and if it did break, you can still control it manually. Get it.

b4z

The "leather seating surface" thing started after nissan was sued in the mid '80s. I think it was a class action lawsuit on the 300Z.

demodog1

The GMO purchase is an order that you place with the dealer, while GMS is the purchase out of stock. The GMO purchase is approximately 2% cheaper since the dealer has not retained the car on the lot and has not advertised the vehicle.

splitdecision

Well, we just got home with a new 2002 Trailblazer loaded. Unfortunately, the experience at the dealership has ruined the day. Right now I am so confused and PO'ed that I'm not sure what kind of deal we got.

Fortunately, we qualify for GMS pricing so everything went fine until we started running payments. The lease contract doesn't carry an APR but something didn't seem right so I asked to see his finance screen. The APR was 1% higher than what I was originally quoted. After haranguing the F&I guy, he called the manager and they made some BS excuse up about miscommunication. He ran the payments again and now I was suspicious. He handed me the contract and I asked to see his screen again and right in front of me he switched the still 1/2% higher rate to what I was supposed to be paying. Him and I went back and forth. He claimed it was right, I walked straight out and found the sales manager. The sales manager grabbed me by the arm and escorted me back, acting as if he was going to fix everything but instead just wanted to get me out of the showroom. The F&I guy then said he would fix it again but when I saw the contract, they had skimmed my trade, albeit only $25. He then finally fixed this. What a nightmare!

This was in Columbus, Ohio. Here are the final #'s, opinions are appreciated:
MSRP=37,000
GMS= 32329
residual (15k/yr) 50%
APR= 6.1%
payment= 548
I traded an old beater for $1000 and had the first payment and tag fees deducted from that with approx $395 balance used as cap cost reduction, i.e. no cash down. Security deposit was waived. $525 acquisition fee

I think they still shaved me at least .2% on the APR and have no idea about the rest of it. My payment went from 583 down to 548 when all was said and done.

Thanks for allowing me to vent

bleffler

Splitdecision,

Who was the dealer?

When I bought my Bravada at Chesrown, I was in the F&I's office for less than 5 minutes.

It was the most pleasurable experience buying a car since I left Detroit.

bob

stakeout

.. we took lease delivery of a new '01 'bourbon LT 4wd loaded last month for my wife....plus used our $1K prior Sub'n owners Loyalty coupon.. Residual was at 56% for 36 mo. lease...

that 50% residual for the '02 Trailblazer seems to be on the low end .. very surprising..especially since it's an '02 model and a new design..

I have a '99 'bourbon that has 9+ mo. left on its lease.. GMAC just sent out early lease termination specials coupon .. in other words they'll take the old '99 back no penalties for early termination/wipe out rest of payments toward any new GM product.. was thinking about looking at a new '02 TB.. but at 50% residual may not consider afterall..

appreciate your posting the info

fabinak

I am not sure that the GM SUV's are selling as fast as the dealers or this board are claiming. First every dealer lot in Ohio that I have been too has ample inventory and little sales traffic. In fact one sales person told me that I would be the first to buy a Trailblazer at his dealership. There is also a lot of competition in this segment and now with the car based SUV's like the Highlander, Acura, etc, the market will fragment into-who really needs a real SUV and who needs the morale equivilant to an all weather people mover. I also have to believe that the economy and fuel price concerns, weigh in as well. My point, I do not think that they will run out of them soon so I am going to hang on for incentiatives and quality improvements.

fabinak

I think it has been documented about the poor center line steering play felt while driving a Trailblazer. I noticed it immediately on a test drive. I felt it much less when driving the Envoy. Same SUV, right?. It must be the difference between the BF Goodrich tires on the TB and the Michelins on the Envoy or perhaps it is the air suspension that tames it down.

drew_

I don't think it's the air suspension as it's only for the rear, and not the front.

"Electronically Controlled Air Suspension (ECAS), with ECAS, air "springs" replace the standard rear coil springs for superior damping and improved isolation from road noise. Two axle-mounted sensors monitor the air springs to control a compressor that inflates or deflates the air springs as necessary to maintain a level load"


Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

zeen

I notice the steering play on my Envoy. It wanders a little as well.

rpageau

Where is it documented there is poor center line steering play on the Trailblazer? Mine has BF Goodrich tires, and is very tight & responsive. Has no inclination to wander at all. I guess this could be a relative thing. If I were to compare it to a Corvette, I would probably think it was loose. But it's a truck, and behaves extremely well even with the soft ride.

paracanary

on page 6-16 of the 2002 Bravada manual there is a picture of a air cleaner indicator which shows when the filter needs to be changed. I do not have this and there is a rubber plug where it should be. Does anyone have this indicator?

demodog1

Yes, my '02 Bravada has the air filter indicator.

msl08

I can't seem to find anything about the 3.9/4.9/5.9% financing for the Trailblazer that someone mentioned. Can anyone point me to the exact location on Edmunds.com?

fletch45

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/chevrolet/trailblazer/ltz4wd4drsuv42l6cyl4a/prices.html

Go down to "Incentives & Rebates" and enter your state. It will probably vary by the region you live in. I am in Iowa, and the rates it gave me were the same as you mentioned.

jim f

fletch45

I am sure that I read somewhere in GM's Trailblazer info that the air cleaner indicator was an included feature, but I sure can't remember where I read it. I would probably question your dealer, especially since someone here said they do have one.
jim f

zeen

The ads are coming! Here is the first advertised lease deal on a Trailblazer from Reedmans in Langhorne, PA. It's a 4X4 with fog lights and aluminum wheels with the CD/Remote Entry package. 36 month lease (12,000 mi.) with $899 down, plus first month's payment and security deposit - $399 per month. The price does not include about $120 for registration nor does it include state tax. This seems to be an excellent deal. Other dealers hate Reedman's ads.

bbbulldog

The lease on our 98 Bravada is about to expire. I was about to buy a Nissan Pathfinder but am having are hard time finding the one I want. Went to the local CM dealer and test drove a new 2002 Bravada.(Pewter) Wow! Have they made changes to this vehicle. Our 98 has only 49K miles on it and is starting to fall apart. The 5 yr 60K warranty is attractive but what about the lame-duck nature of getting a car that may not exist 2-3 years from now? Will it be impossible to sell a few years from now? Should I lease again? What is a good deal on price if I buy? Those of you who have bought a Bravada, how goes it? Any recommendations?
Thanks, BB

abtrains

Does anyone have a rough estimate of the GMS price for a 2002 Envoy SLT with the standard equipment? Not all of the extras.

suv18

I dont know what GMS means but I just negotiated for a 2002 Envoy SLT for 200 below invoice in Los Angeles through a Fleet sales manager. It was the most pain-free car purchase I have ever made. It also seems that GMAC is offering special financing in some parts of the U.S. (but not in CA yet).

rpageau

The indicator is described on the same page 6-16 of the TB manual, and it is there in living color just as described. My guess would be they ran out of indicators for a few hours on the day your truck was built, and they certainly wouldn't stop an assembly line for something like that. They either missed, or never intended putting one on after the fact. Or perhaps your dealer needed one on another vehicle, and "borrowed" yours.

zeen

Bulldog:
I had a '98 Bravada as well and just leased an Envoy. I liked the looks better than the Bravada and didn't need all the extras for the higher price. I also looked at the Pathfinder but felt it was dated, too small inside and the seats were not that comfortable.

I wouldn't buy a Bravada unless you plan to keep it a very long time. The longer warranty may help in reaching that decision. I think leasing a Bravada may make more sense and now I am starting to see some more aggressive pricing on these vehicles. I do think the extinction of the brand (assuming it really happens) will affect resale value. You should check out the Envoy which rides as well as the Bravada. Mine has attracted a great deal of attention on the road.

paracanary

Thanks for the info about my missing air cleaner indicator. I noticed that there is a open hole where the indicator was supposed to go. I have been driving off road in dusty air. Do you think that my engine has been damaged by dirty air getting into the engine thru this hole?

rpageau

I will be the first to admit I am no auto mechanic, but I would be seriously pissed off if your situation happened to me. The air cleaner is there for a reason, and you have been completely bypassing it for some amount of air getting to your engine. It may be no big deal, but I would be asking some pretty serious questions of my dealer about how something like this could happen. It would stand to reason a certain amount of "dirty" air gets to the engine, or the replacement indicator would never show the need to replace the filter. Just how much dirty air an engine can take without long term effects needs to be answered by someone smarter than me.

dindak

You will have no trouble selling a Bravada. Unlike Intrigue/Aurora, Bravada shares engine and most components with Envoy/TB. I also have heard rumors that Bravada will become either a Buick or a Cadillac when Olds disappears.

drew_

How Oldsmobile will close shop:

http://www.auto.com/industry/iwirb25_20010425.htm

I think some of you may find this interesting.

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

lagniappe

I am considering buying a Bravada and have heard they are going for well below retail. Would anyone please share what they paid, particularly in the Portland, OR area? Thanks.

hambone7

Anyone,

Does the Envoy have cornering lights? I don't think the TB does...can someone confirm?

fabinak

This is a response to rapageau's request for documentation of the steering play on the TB. The comment appears in almost every review of the TB. Car and Driver, June 2001 refers to it as "syrupy steering". Also Edmunds review stated "Our only complaint stems from the the steering that felt a little to numb at dead center for our tastes". The Plain Dealer wrote on Feb 4 that " I would prefer more weight on the steering , particularly when the vehicle is pointed straight". My own test drives of competitive products was my most convincing proof. I am glad you are oblivious to the steering play.

zeen

They come standard on the Envoy.

rpageau

I guess I am just numb when going straight ahead, or don't know what is meant by steering play. I probably should have read the reviews before I made up my own mind, and then I most certainly would not have been oblivious to the problem.

mfullmer

Bulldog, if you are going to lease you are better off getting the Bravada. The residuals are exactly the same (%) for the trio. You also get a better warranty (if you choose over a 3 year lease and/or over 12k per year) with the Bravada. Grant it, it's not the "bumper to bumper" you get for the first three years, but it covers the major things. The ride in the Bravada is superior to the Envoy and/or TB in every way.

ralfo

Due to the recall, my dealer will order and install running boards at no charge. I was thinking of getting the factory installed type. Does anyone have them? What are they made of? I wanted to keep the stock type.

hambone7

Does the TB have cornering lights?

jeff237

Mine were installed last week as part of the recall compensation. They look great. I'm not sure if they make an after market product at this time. When exiting the truck you can step on them, but it's really not needed. The installation is solid. I was a little worried that after factory installation might be poor. But I am pleased with their fit and rigidity.

zeen

I have the TB catalog and cornering lights are not listed as a standard feature or option at all. The photos seem to confirm this. The LTZ photos show no lights on the side that would seem to do the job.

musicman10

I have a new Bravada with 1900 miles on the odometer. I had to add a quart of oil. Has anyone else had to add oil this soon? I have had many new cars and never have had to add oil before the first oil change. Have they started building the Bravada with the polished chrome wheel yet?

lurker01

For those of you who qualify, here is how it works:
GMS price = invoice - 3% of MSRP.
This is for cars bought 'off the lot'

GMO price = base invoice - 4.5% of base MSRP
+ options invoice - 3% of options MSRP
This is for cars your order.

The 1.5% difference is because the dealer need compensation for having the unit on his lot.

In addition to these prices, also subtract any applicable incentives.

Now, I have a question on GM Card cash. Is this pre or post tax? I know that they subtract your trade-in from the price before figuring tax, but do they also subtract the GM Card cash as well, or is it the same as paying with normal cash?