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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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    zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    SUV18: I do not have the air suspension. The suspension keeps the bumps from resonating through the body which I experienced on my old Bravada. I have some body roll but less than other SUV's I've driven. The steering is geared so that at slow speeds it's like driving a Lincoln...no resistance and a lot of turns. However the turning radius is excellent and the steering tightens up as the speed increases.
    The wipers work well and the lights, both interior and exterior, are great. Those Michelin tires are beauties and have good traction and mileage ratings (A and 420).
    As for the Jeep GC, I liked the way it drove and it was quite comfortable. It is even a better fit in my garage. But I just didn't want to take a chance on the reliability. I also found that even with the incentives, the lease price was no better than the Envoy.
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    hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    In looking at the Envoy, the 1SD option package includes a 4.10 axle ratio, which to me is very odd. What do the amenities in this option package have to do with the selection of a desired powertrain? Nothing from what I can see. I believe the Bravada has the same type issue. This 4.10 ratio will give the best power for pulling trailers and off the line torque, but it sacrifices gas mileage.

    On the TB side, you choose your axle ratio despite the interior/exterior option package you choose. The only dependency on the TB side is with the locking diff (can only get certain ratio w/o the locking diff). I looked at 12 TB's (2WD and 4WD) on a lot today which all have either the 3.42 or 3.73 axle ratio...none with the 4.10. I have to believe though that most Envoys and Bravadas would have the 4.10 ratio since it is part of their option "packages". Is this a good or bad thing? It depends. Does anyone out there know why there is a difference in the way these triplets are sold? Does anyone have complaints with the 4.10 ratio (like high RPMs on the highway)? I am planning on getting a 3.73 ratio on a 2WD TB, but if the 4.10 is being pushed on most of the Envoys and Bravadas for some good technical reason, perhaps I should consider the 4.10.

    Yeah, I know this is anal....
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    zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    Hambone: Do you need the load leveling suspension? If not get the 1SB package without the 4.10 axle.
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    rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    Thought I would share my experience this weekend with a full frontal assault on appearance care for my TB. I have been an active participant on this board, and am not a paid shill for any appearance care products. However, I used some stuff this weekend that just blew me away. I have Metallic Pewter, which is fairly easy to make look good. However, I have had black vehicles in the past, and I know this stuff would be astounding on black. I would encourage anyone with a dark color to visit the following site:


    http://www.zainobros.com/index.shtml


    This stuff is just amazing, and if it has the durability claimed, it will be phenomenal. I highly recommend anyone that might try it to do the full preparation before polishing, and you will be stunned. It is simple to apply, and even easier to remove. There is no (none, dada, zero) residue to fight with. It's a bit of work if you do it right the first time through, but well worth it. If anyone decides to give it a try, let me know, as I found a few tricks that should make things easier.

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    zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    Hambone: Do you need the load leveling suspension? If not get the 1SB package without the 4.10 axle.
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    debbin67debbin67 Member Posts: 35
    This stuff sounds awesome. What products do you use? I have a pewter Envoy and I think I am going to order some of this. What do recommend?
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You two sound like you're ready for Zaino Car Care Experiences - Part 2 discussion. We hope to see you back here in this discussion in a month or so :-)

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
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    hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    I'm buying a TrailBlazer. I was considering the Envoy and Bravada but liked the TB the best overall. However, I noticed the axle ratio issue and wondered why GM decided to include the 4.10 axle with some of the Envoy/Bravada packages. I thought that the 4.10 axle would only be for those who would be towing heavy trailers.
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    akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    If you are considering a JGC, first read this topic on Edmunds. It reads more like a topic on "What do you think about the Jeep Grand Cherokee". Check it out before making a decision.

    The "$30-40K SUV's to stay AWAY from? And why..... " topic is found by scrolling forward with the "more" topics button.
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    mikeccmikecc Member Posts: 4
    Car and Driver just tested these three suv's and they loved them.
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    hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    Could you please do something about the post by "jake" under "Horsepower City" dated April 4? The review is riddled with typos and refers to the new engine in the Trailblazer as a V6.

    ...it bugs me.

    Thanks !
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't see the message you are referring to. But hosts don't delete posts unless they run afoul of our Terms of Use in some way. Inaccurate messages don't count, and if you are referring to a review by our editorial staff, I'm sure I have no influence over them at all! :-)

    It may be irritating that folks refer to V-4's as V-6's or boxers as inlines, but them's the breaks.

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
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    zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    Hambone:
    The 1SD package is for heavy duty towing and I guess that's why they build in the 4.10 ratio. For regular towing, they use the lower ratio which is standard. I got the 1SB package which has no special towing elements. But there is a nice heavy duty hitch that comes standard and should suit most towing needs.
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    fdogsfdogs Member Posts: 9
    I posted last week asking if anyone who owns, or has driven, the Bravada has noticed the rear seat bracket protruding into the seating area. It is located at the 60/40 split point and is curved in shape. It looks like it is the pivot point around which the seats fold.

    The model I drove actually had grease on this bracket that got all over my hands and clothes.

    Did my dealer forget to install a cover of some type, or is this just the way it is? I would really appreciate if anyone with a Bravada could check this out and let me know if your's is the same or not. This small point has turned into a deal breaker for my wife!
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    dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Looks like the 02 Explorer has been recalled again. Looks to be following in the footsteps of the Escape. Bad news for Ford and Detroit.
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    hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    The review is on the "Reviews & Info" tab for the Chevy Trailblazer.
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    hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    I noticed this same bracket on the Trailblazer (the seat hardware is the same for each truck). It is curved and about 3-5 mm thick, and an inch wide...right? I don't think it could have a permanent cover over it since it is a pivot point. It bugs me too. I would recommend getting a rag or foam the same color as your seats and stuff it between the 60/40 area over the bracket...something small. Whenever you fold the seat (if ever) simply put the rag back over it. It shouldn't have grease all over it that would touch your hand. I couldn't feel the bracket sitting on the seat, so I think it's just an aesthetic issue (after you wipe the grease off).
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    fdogsfdogs Member Posts: 9
    Thanks for the reply. That is the same bracket I noticed. You are right that it is an aesthetic issue. I couldn't feel it when seated either. The gap between those seats seemed really large too. I could drop a baseball into the cargo area through it.

    Finally, I have to say that a $35k vehicle should not require a rag between the seats to DRESS UP the appearance!

    Anybody have anymore ideas? I really like the vehicle but have a hard time with this small item.
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    zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    On my Envoy, there is a gap but nothing protruding into the seating area. There is a plastic cap about 1 1/8 inches in diameter which is visible but it is below the seat cushion level.
    It's a truck, not a limo, so it doesn't bother me.

    Good luck with the TB, Hambone.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Got it; I'll report it and keep my fingers crossed (maybe you should submit your own review?). Thanks!

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
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    hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    You are right, a $35K vehicle shouldn't have this issue...there shouldn't be a gap. A $35K vehicle also shouldn't have cheapo BFGoodrich tires either (the TB does). The "Open Terrain" tires are the least expensive light truck tires that BFG makes. I believe the Bravada and Envoy has Michelins, which are great tires. A $35K vehicle also shouldn't have an obnoxious looking system such as OnStar either.

    If your wife doesn't like the bracket in the back seat, then point out the cheap looking instruments on the Explorer...see if she could live with them....personally I couldn't stand to look at them.
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    nikrosenikrose Member Posts: 1
    I noticed this bracket on my new Bravada as well as the gap, but since I couldn't feel it when sitting in the in the backseat, I figured I could live with it. My biggest beef is the rear seats don't fold flat, which I failed to check out before buying the vehicle because I owned a 1998 Bravada before, and just assumed that wouldn't have changed on the 2002 Bravada.
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    rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    I assume you have visited the Zaino site, and are familiar with the product terminology so here goes. This was a little time consuming the first time around, but each piece was amazingly easy. In addition to the detergent scrubdown, I used the Z18 ClayBar (very worthwhile), Z1, Z2, Z6, & Z7. I also used their trim & glass items, which were just as easy and effective. If you are interested, Email me directly, and I can give you a rundown of the time for each step, and a couple of tips to make it easier.
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    rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    Man, you guys are tough to please. I would have never guessed something like a rear seat bracket could generate so much emotion. But I am very glad you all brought the topic up. After reading so much about it, I decided to check my TB out, and lo and behold I found my missing basketball in the bracket gap!!!! Thanks to all, as I really loved that basketball.
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    jeff237jeff237 Member Posts: 38
    Today I got my running boards installed and in the mail I received my 24/24 protection plan. All I am waiting on is the check for the first months payment. All of which was promised to me from GM due to the recall. My dealer said it is in the motions and should receive the check soon. The running boards look great on my Envoy. It now hides the frame. If you stand back you use to see the under frame of the truck. It really makes the Envoy sportier. As far as the gap between the seats, nothings perfect. My wife's Expedition has a similar gap. We lose basketballs all the time.
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    fletch45fletch45 Member Posts: 72
    To those interested in ordered products... Awhile back I mentioned that I had ordered a TB 4/7, and had received a build date of 6/11 (much to my dismay!). I spoke with GM customer service (800-222-1020) today, and the lady told me that my build date (it is actually the build week) had been moved up to 5/21. She said to allow about a month from that date for delivery, as I had been told in the past. Seems they must be getting caught up.
    jim f
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    hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    I went to a Chevy dealership today to try to get the final word on axle ratios. The man who orders all the trucks and cars for the dealership stock spoke with me. He said that unless you want to pull a horse trailer or an AirStream, get the 3.73 or 3.42 axle. The 4.10 ratio will be great on take off but will run 300-400 RPM higher on the highway...that's significant for noise and gas mileage. He did not recommend it. He said that there isn't a big difference between the 3.73 vs. the 3.42 axle...maybe 1/2 mile per gallon gas mileage but better launch with the 3.73 axle.

    I hope this helps others too.
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    flyersruleflyersrule Member Posts: 47
    Ok. I test-drove the TB...Loved it. Saw the outside of the Envoy (they wouldn’t let me in it because of recall), liked it (didn't like the front though). Test-drove the Bravada this weekend. Loved it, especially the front. Looks great! A beautiful red Jewel Coat with gold emblem has my name all over it.

    Now, to help me afford it, if 15 people from this chat group could donate $2000 each to my new car fund, I could be driving one by next week!!!!

    The dealer talked me into staying an extra 20 min so they could price out my 96-blazer trade-in and quote me a price on the Bravada. I wasn't really ready to start the pricing talk, but, just for laughs, I let them. They were having a "Big-Sale" and I had the time.

    They came back with 11,500 or so for the trade, minus 1500 to fix it up. Then, they took that off of the price of the car, MSRP (what happened to the "Big Sale"???) to get the final price of 690-700 for 48 months (no extra money down).

    They always came back with a leasing price of 279+tax, for 3 years. That was with my trade-in.

    I said thank you and left.

    I couldn't stand that place. I was working with a sales person that new nothing about the car, and she was talking out her [non-permissible content removed] the entire time. She normally worked on the used car side of the dealership, but because of the sale, she was working new cars. I don't know if it is just me, but when somebody is looking at a 35k+ car, they should have a knowledgeable, educated sales persons that has a any idea about what they are doing.. Totally turned me off!

    Anyway, any Bravada owners out that that can help me get off the fence and plunk down the big $$, would be greatly appreciated!

    On a different note, anybody that has used the Internet to buy or get a better deal, those stories would be great to hear.
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    racoonlodgeracoonlodge Member Posts: 34
    I've been checking out the TB's since they first appeared on the Net, the at the dealers locations. I currently have an '89 s-10 blazer with 240,000 original miles (and still get plenty of compliments). My prior vehicle was a 75 Mote Carol with 225,000 miles. So you can see over 465,000 miles with two vehicles over 25 years. I take pride & care of my cars, that's why I look, listen and take my time in selection. I did not care for the style of the last blazer line (smaller than others in its class). I've made many trips to the dealer lots (Sundays cause NO dealers)and here's my observations:
    I like the style of the AS model (exterior) which has the color matched bumpers and black door handles. It's a shame a buyer cannot specify what type exterior molding he or she wants. The CT model looks fine, but I don't care for the charcoal molding when other parts of the truck are Black. I do like and plan to get the LTZ package but I do not care for the two-tone paint. It makes the tires & wheel well look too far apart. This simply means I will get the solid appearance exterior. (shame I can't get the black handles to offset the appearance). I have checked out the wheel wells and found those infamous holes. You could plug up the holes but the screw would have to be thick. I'll find a way to safely plug the holes & plastic wheel well together. I'm rather miffed at the construction of the TB also in the area of the back window & door. If you look at the back window glass, there is no molding around it. Its simply just rounded glass. Even my 12 year old S-10 has molding around it. Not that its stronger, but does dress it up. Another thing I observed is where the third brake light is located at the top. It is located under a soft type of plastic or fiberglass. This material seems to move very easily (hopefully doesn't wear out). My opinion, the back lights seem a bit oversized and the charcoal flap at the bottom is a little too much. All the TB's I checked out do NOT have poor alignment problems like those mentioned here for any of the three SUV's. I'm rather surprised about the 17" wheels because like the alder blazers, they came with black painted surfaces on the rims. This painted surfaces hid the dirt/grease and made the "spoke" like shine more when the wheel was spinning. This simply means, I spend more time cleaning inside my mag/wheel. With the LTZ, the front grill has the painted piece to match. Some colors (my opinion) do not look that cool as part of the front grill. Actually, I'm not to fond of the colors available right now (if I had to get one NOW, I may lean to the black or Pewter. I'm waiting for the Sandalwood to come out before I make a color decision. I think, this is my color, but I just have to wait. I'm not sure about the running boards, (means more work to keep them clean) and if that's worth the looks. Also with the sunroof , at this time I'm not sure. My wife has a '97 lamina and the sunroof is noisy when opened. This style may be different. I do like the style & look of the front (seems like all chevys - Malibu, Impala) have that mean look. Is it me (I thought maybe the gas tanks were low) or are these TB's so high in the back?. I have not test driven one of these beauty's yet, but I will shortly. As most of you, I'll know more about this TB than any dealer. Overall, Nothing (or nobody) is perfect, but I am impressed with this Trailblazer. Ironic, My '89 Blazer has a patch seen into the driver's seat labeled "Trailblazer". Even then, I guess I was prep'd for this SUB.
    Thanks for the chat... I'll keep you posted..
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    megasuvownermegasuvowner Member Posts: 64
    I think GM should go ahead and move the bravada to caddy , but they should definately change the front end and make it look like a baby Escalade.
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    suv18suv18 Member Posts: 11
    I have seen several posts about ordering a car through a dealer's fleet sales manager. Do dealerships let you order just one vehicle through their fleet sales person, or do they just send you over the consumer sales people? Also, what are the advantages of ordering from the fleet sales people if you can do it? Thanks
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    9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    We have 1900 miles on our Envoy now including a 1600 mile round trip this last weekend. It's fully loaded SLT with the air suspension and 4.10 gears.

    Here's what we found:
    • Fuel mileage (in U.S. gallons) 16.2 - 21.7 mpg cruising between 68 & 75 mph with an overall average of 19 mpg. We were dealing with a very strong NW wind the entire time and had a 30" x 82" table strapped to the roof during the headwind stage.

    • With the 4.10 gears we were turning 2300 to 2500 rpm. The motor was extremely quiet and able to handle most grades without downshifting. Don't not get the gears because of noise.

    • The Bose sound system and 6 disc changer is the best factory sound system I have experienced.

    • The DIC displays "LOW FUEL WARNING" with about 3 gallons of fuel left and kills all other functions.

    • The air suspension seems to have an initial "lean in" when cornering and then stiffens up. Someone has posted the explanation for this previously. It was not difficult to negotiate cloverleafs at twice the recommended speed posted without tire squeal.

    • The hose, gauge and accessories that come with the air suspension are nice, quality pieces.

    • The transmission/motor do get smoother with miles.

    My enthusiasm for this vehicle is growing, not diminishing over time!!

    About Zaino, I've been using it for 2 years, primarily on my Pewter Camaro SS. It is that experience that gave me the courage to get the Envoy in black, knowing that Zaino was a product that would make it possible to keep the look "stunning".
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    aleasealease Member Posts: 22
    I have ordered an Envoy sat and can't wait to get it. My advise to you is to first get invoice pricing from Edmunds.com or Kelly BB on exactly what you want. Do not pay MSRP, I am paying 500 over invoice, I probably could have gotten it down more but really didn't want to spend the time negotiating. Then get your retail and trade in value of your blazer from Kelly BB. Then when they want to give you a figure on your vehicle you have an idea of how far off they are on price. I chose to try and sell my car myself, it is going to take alot of work and patience but hopefully the 3000.00 I can make it will be worth it. Good Luck and hope that helps
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    ralforalfo Member Posts: 36
    I remember reading about moving the roof rack to minimize noise. What position should it be moved to?
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    fletch45fletch45 Member Posts: 72
    Move the front crossbar back to where it is even with the back of the rear door opening.
    jim f
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    akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    The progressive spring rate that the air suspension gives is desireable in luxury vehicles. Many luxury cars have progressive rate steel springs where the diameter of the coil starts small and grows in size as you move from one end of the spring to the other. The larger diameter part of the spring gives the compliancy while the smaller diameter end gives the stiffer rate. The large diameter end compresses first, followed by the middle and finally the opposite end compresses at significantly higher stiffness.

    Such progressive rate coil springs are more expensive to manufacture because you can't just make a very long coil and cut them up into multiple units. Also winding the coil is harder to do because of the progressive diameter. This type of spring fits well with luxury cars which desire the ride characteristics and have higher profit margins to accomodate the higher cost. If you like the sporty feel (like a Trailblazer should be), go with the steel springs (or get a trailblazer).
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    blefflerbleffler Member Posts: 22
    If you go to gmbuypower.com, the contact person for the dealer is usually the fleet manager or the Internet manager. In most dealerships, this is the same person.

    You can email this person without having to identify yourself. I negotiated my deal that way. When we reached agreement, I stopped by the next day and picked up a vehicle.

    I used the prices at southerngm.com as a starting point for the negotiations. I dealt with about 10 dealers. Most responses were quite sarcastic. I had two dealers that came close. I dealer matched the $200 under invoice price. I might add that I also got the GM Card and Olds Customer Loyalty rebates to get even more off.

    This brought the price to almost the GMO price. To be honest, this transaction was a whole lot easier than when I was eligible for the GMO discount.

    I also found the other Internet services to be a waist of time. Most local dealers here in Columbus are using them as lead finders, but aren't offering their best deals first.

    There are dealers that understand the benefits of marketing on the Internet. If you search a little, you can find them.

    And yes, the Fleet Manager will deal on single quanity vehicles.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Some insight on how the Trailblazer got it's headlights.

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
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    lyndellwlyndellw Member Posts: 31
    Jeff, My dealer still has no p/n for runningboards. Could you give me your dealers ph number,I will see if they could order me a set. Could you respond to this by sending me an e-mail?
    I sure would appreciate it if you can.
    Thank You,
    L Webb

    lwebb@effingham.net
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    akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,281
    I am going to have to replace my 2001 Jetta GLS 1.8T with something that can tow. I plan on towing a 2 horse trailer with 2 horses (probably weighs 5,000 lbs total) at minimum but sometimes will tow a 4 horse trailer with 3 horses in it (probably around 7,000 lbs total). I plan on using a weight distribution system also. I don't really want a big SUV and I don't really want a full size pick up truck. I am also considering a Jeep Grand Cherokee, Ford Explorer, and a Dodge Durango. Anybody tow with their Trailblazer? How does it do? My hubby has a 96 GMC K2500 6.5L TD, but he needs his truck most of the time so, I need something that can pull the horse trailer to horse shows. Thanks for any info.
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    ducatist4ducatist4 Member Posts: 28
    I have used our Bravada to tow a 800 lb aluminum trailer, enclosed with 1500 lbs of motorcycle, and it was not a problem. I suspect that with the Trailblazer and the different gears, 5000 lbs would not be much of an effort. 2300 lbs was not at all noticeable.

    1700 miles and we love it more every day. 15.4 MPG in the city. Not a rattle inside, which I am very impressed with. My aurora dash jitters once and a while.
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    jeff237jeff237 Member Posts: 38
    Today I received my check from my dealer for $650 for one monthly payment. Monday my running boards were installed. Also, Monday I received my 24/24 agreement. Three months OnStar and one more month warranty was on a previous letter from GM. All of these items were compensation for the recall. My dealer came through. I feel this has been handled well under the circumstances. Wishing everyone luck with their SUV's.
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    dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    If GM can push out lots of these new trucks it should start gaining back some more truck market share. Apparently Ford has shut down Explorer production for 2 weeks to free up tire supply for the Firestone boondoggle. I think Firestone is in big trouble.
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    naughtybydnaughtybyd Member Posts: 1
    Hello all,

    I'm looking to purchase a the new 2002 GMC ENVOY. To begin I was looking at the Mitsubishi Montero, but then I saw the ENVOY while watching the laker game and fell in love. Went to the dealer to see it and its unbelievable what this thing has. I need to know from previous envoy owners or just GMC owners what do they think. I'm keeping in mind that during the strike for the 98 and 99 models had alot of problems. So honest opinions will be greatly appreciated.
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    9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    I said my piece in #1167.

    One point I failed to mention is that the turning radius is about 6 feet tighter than the previous generation Jimmy/Blazer 4 doors.

    It's a great vehicle!!
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    rpageaurpageau Member Posts: 94
    Well, it looks like the fuel mileage on my TB is going to be at least as advertised. Checked my first "official" mileage today. Miles 627-901 (274 miles) came in at 16.6 MPG. I am very happy as not one of those miles was on an interstate or any other kind of highway. They were just driving around town, and going to work (9 miles/ 10 lights).

    The big highway test comes next week, when I go to the Keys for the week on my yearly fishing trip (375 miles each way to Islamorada). I am expecting outstanding mileage on the way down, but the return should be significantly lower with the weight of all the Dolphin (the fish, not Flipper) in the back. The extra room over my '95 Blazer should come in handy;>)
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    zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    Naughtybyd: The '02 Envoy is a completely different vehicle than the '01 and previous Jimmy models. Experience with those vehicles is really irrelevant. My '02 Envoy is superb. I am curious however how it will do in the rollover and crash tests.
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    mean1mean1 Member Posts: 15
    I'm coming off an Explorer lease and I don't really want another one but Ford is offering me $1650 in rebates before I even haggle with the dealer. I would love to buy a LS TB-- but all of the Chevy dealers near me only have loaded LT TB'S with stickers $32,000 - $36,000. And each dealer only has 4 or 5 of them. Is Chevy having problems with these things. They don't even advertise them in the local papers. The Ford dealer has Explorers out the butt, what's the delay on the TB? I have never seen a LS TB.
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    hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    I'm glad that someone else is irritated by the fact that salespeople at GM dealerships know little if anything about the cars and trucks they sell. It kills me that you will commonly see salespeople milling around and they haven't even read the sales brochures that they are handing out. Then it's irritating when a salesperson thinks they know more than you, the customer, who has at least read the brochure. I've complained to GM about this, but they don't care and/or don't think it's a problem.
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    jeff237jeff237 Member Posts: 38
    To Envoy owners with leather interior. Look at your front seats on the inside edge near the center console, does the leather stop and cloth finish the rest of the seat? If this is the way they finished all of them I think it's tacky. If it's just mine, WOW!!

    Just called my dealer. He went out and looked at 2 with leather. They both have cloth on the side. He was a bit embarased, but said GM says leather seating "area" not seats. Pretty tacky for a 35k SUV.
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