Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

smmiller

Parking is a breeze with the cool mirrors on the LTX. The mirrors automatically adjust downward (to settings of your choice) when you put the truck in reverse. I love this feature. Makes any kind of backing up around obstacles or curbs really easy. The size 400 dog crates pretty much block use of the rear view mirror, but I'm used to just using the side mirrors anyhow.

For me the jury is still out on mileage. I haven't done any real highway driving, mostly in town or short freeway trips. Problem is we live in the west hills of Portland, OR and the hills could easily be putting a huge dent in the MPG. So far we're getting 13.2 with just 600 miles on the TB EXT.

As for performance on grades. We do a lot of that and we have not noticed any issues. Haven't tried towing anything yet, but with the 270 ponies it can't be much of an issue. Add the K&N and open air mods that tlauro just posted and there's probably another 5 HP waiting for you.

So far the only feature I found on the mountaineer that I liked that is not on the TB is the adjustable pedals. I've already adjusted to the factory fixed setting, but would still prefer to push them away from me a tad more.

The most significant difference for us (other than cargo space) between the TB EXT and the Ford was road noise. The TB is simply a much quieter vehicle. The ultimate test here in Portland is I-84 between Portland and Gresham. That stretch of freeway is in horrible condition and in many cars the sound of the tires beating their way over that pavement (the Ford product included) goes straight through me. I hardly notice it in the TB.

If you get the Bose it ought to be even better since the radio automatically compensates for road noise. Anyone have any reports on how well that works???

daytrip

I have been lurking the board and decided to join in. I have enjoyed all the great information posted. Right now I am curious as to what you experienced posters would recommend for a mud guard. Have you bought generic or specially designed for the triplets? I have a Envoy SLT by the way. I learned over the weekend that the running boards alone won't keep the gravel off of the doors. I travel many gravel roads for recreation. I appreciate any help.

rj123456

Well actually its the GMC XL - 2 months on it and still love it.

The 42' turning diameter takes some getting used to. The curbview mirrors help.

Mileage in flat mixed city/urban freeway driving is only 13.5 or so over almost 4K miles. This is a bit of a disappointment, as I was expecting it to be somewhere between the posted 15 and 20 mpg.

rj123456

The "service engine soon" light came on on my XL's dashboard and I called Onstar and they found a diagnostic code P0440 - something about the fuel filler. Does any one know what it is?

Taking it in to the dealer on Tuesday to get it fixed along with the "wandering mirror on driver 2 only" problem but wanted to be pre-armed on the P0440.

First time I used Onstar other than just to test it...pretty nifty!

tblazer503

hey.. verify that your gas cap has been tightened at least 3 clicks.. =o) In your owners manual it states something about it. Dont know much about it, but I believe that it has something to do with pressure in the neck or something like that.

hardhawk

My Envoy turns 1 year old Friday. I have the factory running boards and added the GMC mudguards (black & say GMC on them). They were specific for the Envoy and fit perfectly and look great. I have had NO problem with rocks chipping my lower rear doors where they flare out. I do not drive on a lot of gravel roads, but some. I also added a McNeil Weathertech hood deflector and while I still get some bugs on the windshield, I have no stone chips in my hood.

sildog

I had the "Service Engine Soon" light and found that my gas cap was loose. The system checks for vacuum leaks in the fuel system-it is how it knows if unburned fuel has a chance to leak. Dealer told me that the SES light is specific to emmisions related issues.

Regarding water boiling, etc: I'll talk water-don't know as much about eth-gly+water. Heating water in the liquid state takes 1 calorie per gram to heat 1 degree C. Converting water from liquid to vapor (boiling) AT THE SAME TEMPERATURE takes something like 540 Calories per gram. Because of this, a gram of water used to take heat away can take one calorie of heat away with a one degree temp rise. The same gram can take 540 calories away just by vaporizing. That gram will then dissipate that heat to it's surrounding neighbors as it flows to cooler regions.

I have no idea if coolant in a regular old car engine ever does this "local boiling" thing, but I've read that high strung competition engines rely on this phenom to maintain their cool.

Wow! That thermo class finally paid off!

envoyowner

Tim:
Thank you for building and continuing to enhance such a comprehensive website. It is much appreciated.
I am interested in purchasing a bike rack for my Envoy. I was originally going to purchase the GM rack and didn't research any others. Is there a reason that you went with the Reese 4 bike rack carrier? Does it easily "bend" out of the way so that you can still open the door? Any other pros/cons?
Also, your black Trailblazer looks great in the pictures. My Envoy is also black and I'm learning that maintaining a black car is a real science. Are there any tips or tricks that you have to offer? I'll revisit your website as I believe I have read your recommendations on wax.
Thanks!!

graphicguy

Tim:

Thanks for the response. I'll mosy on over to my GMC and Chevy dealer to get GMO and let you know what I find out regarding lease rates, residuals, etc.

I'm guessing that pricing should be pretty compelling given the $2,500 rebate. Should put the price pretty near to some of the mini SUVs out there and some of the lesser SUVs, also.

Still have your GTP, too?

Graphicguy

tlauro

I never looked at the GM bike rack. I've seen the Reese systems before and new that it worked well. It holds four and by the horizontal frame of the bike for stability. There are two clamps, each holds two bikes and can be locked separately. It really does bend down out of the way. I've not done it with bikes on it due to weight and what not, and can't imagine you would, but it does with the removal of single pin via a release. I can email you a detailed pic if you need it. perhaps I'll even update the site when I mount it next week.

The only con to it is that it must be bolted in place vs a hitch pin. This is due to weight and helping keep it stable and from bouncing or moving even a little bit. I would think that a stability system like the one on my hitch step would work....it's a hand tightened fastener, but the Reese doesn't have the hole drilled or threaded. Perhaps I'll try that later. I'll have to post those pics later with the above update.

Overall, bolting it in place isn't a con, just a point I threw out there.

Thanks for the kind words on the sight and truck. Black is certainly a challenge. I've had three black vehicles and can't figure why I go back other than it just plain looks good clean Key is to not ever use a polish or rough rag. All cleaning of paint should be done with Clay Bar and not compounds, waxes or polishes. A good protectant should glide on and buff off....check out Zaino on my site. Also, spend the money and get a real good set of Egyption cotton towels. Cheap ones cause spider web scratches over time. Lastly, use a good set of microfiber cloths to apply gloss enhancers to keep the finish streak free. Again, Z5 by Zaino is by far the best IMO. Needless to say, I never go to a car wash with brushes. I even use an electric powerwasher do blast away most of the grime before washing.

Hope the above helps.

envoyowner

Tim:
Thanks for all the great information. I will check your site for updated pictures, as well as the product information. I absolutely love having the black car - and I appreciate your sharing the details of how to maintain it. I wouldn't dream of taking it to a car wash! :-)

daytrip

Thanks for the information. The GMC web-site says that the factory accessory mudguards can't be used with running boards. Did you find a way around the conflict?

scottc454

I feel obligated to put in a good word for Yakima. I have a hitch mounted rack that is great for impatient types like me. It has this bolt with an attached wrench thing. You bolt it onto the hitch with that and it stays there until you take it off.

It's very easy to mount that rack, and mounting bikes is just as easy. You simply put a bike in a cradle and tie down 3 rubber strap things (which are attached to the rack). Overall, it is a no-nonsense approach to bike racking.
The rack also folds down to allow hatch access.

envoyowner

Tim:
Thanks for all the great information. I will check your site for updated pictures, as well as the product information. I absolutely love having the black car - and I appreciate your sharing the details of how to maintain it. I wouldn't dream of taking it to a car wash! :-)

envoyowner

Thanks for the info! I like the idea that it sounds very easy and works with the hitch. I'll check it out.

pauleul

daytrip,

Don't know why GM says mudguards can't be used with running boards, but many of us have done so anyway. I have same truck as you and had no problem putting the factory mudguards on mine. No modifications at all were needed.

cmack4

Nice job! That's exactly what I plan to do... I installed the K&N yesterday and was checking out the baffle. I thought about just chopping the front top of the baffle and doing a scoop, but there's really not enough clearance, so your method will probably work better, and I like how you isolated the cold from the hot side. Thanks for being the guinea pig!

bobbies

To the question of the mud flaps I posted, dealer installed same when I picked it up. I think any flap big enough to protect the back door area would need to be huge and look like hell. I did get the dealer via a service rep to paint a rock guard at the localized area at NC to me. This helps but haven't got through an Ohio winter yet to see how it holds up to road salt and debis. There is a running board now available from the dealer...#12497680. My next goal is to get letters off to GM via my currnet complaint file and see what I can do to get GM to provide the running boards, even if I assume part of the cost. These list for $400 and at a 50/50 deal, $200 aint bad. Most TB's and Envoy's I see have them. I think this would be the last resort and would cure the bulk of the chips. Anyhow I plan to be relentless! Bobbies

mfullmer

I appreciate your candor and yes, that last sentence was meant to be sarcastic although the very wording was used to be a "wink, wink - You know what I mean?" statement and not an attack. I've posted my first message to him and his first message to me below. I really don't understand how mine could be the one that is offensive. I didn't attack him personally in any form. In any case, it looks like I need to watch my writing and know that people don't see my expression. (Good point, by the way!)

I posted first:

#6572 of 6644 Sildog- by mfullmer Jul 11, 2002 (12:36 pm)
My suggestion, cut your losses and have them replace your factory unit. Aside from the fact that you'll never get truly excellent sound in a vehicle that has so much glass and the factory stereo is, at the very least, tuned to the vehicle, this is just one more reason to not spend money on an aftermarket stereo as those are the ones the criminally minded want.

On another note, I do hope that the aftermarket system wasn't one of those meant to "force" the entire population within 100 feet of your vehicle to listen to the music you want to hear.

He responded:

#6576 of 6644 To MFULLMER by sildog Jul 11, 2002 (02:09 pm)
Nice "Hasty Generalization" Just because I am not satisfied with the average performance of the factory sound, doesn't mean I am a menace to society. Are you sure your name isn't A Bunker?

Thanks again for the perspective.

tidester

I can see how sildog might have misinterpreted your comments. If I said something like "I hope you're not one of those politicians who hug babies while stealing from the public coffer" you might interpret that as suggesting you ARE such a politician!

I didn't interpret your original remark that way but it is easy to see how one might.

Anyhow, misinterpretation is a fact of life in this medium and we endure it and get over it. We don't dwell on it.

Let's move on.

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

sildog

Sorry I caused such a stir!!! Well said, Tidester. All I really ever wanted to know is the answer to a specific question:

When replacing the factory stereo head unit with an aftermarket unit, are there electrical problems associated with removal of the factory unit? Crutchfield said they know of no such issue. The stereo installer said I have to buy an $85 harness to relocate the factory radio. The dealer doesn't seem to want to be involved.

With all the enthusiasts on this site, I am surprised that I might be the first to actually do this!

Also-regarding 4 bike hitches. I was going to buy the Reese basically because it was the least expensive at $100 at Meier. I looked at Yakima and it was about $200 at specialty bike store. I lucked out and got a Saris (sp) at a bike shop-it was some leftover sales sample that they sold me for $85. It does require the "bolt tight" rather than hitch pin-maily to keep side to side slop to a minimum. It allows hatch opening by folding down. I bought a chain and padlock to lock it to the trailer chain hooks on hitch. Then I lock the bikes to the rack with a cable lock.

hardhawk

I do not know why GM says you can't use the mudguards with the factory running boards. True, you can't reall see the white GMC logo on the front flaps very well, but so what? They fit just fine. I had them installed when I had the tires rotated and they went on in a flash. The whole reason I got the running boards when I ordered the Envoy was becasue of that rear door wheel flare. GM had that same design with a flare in front of the rear wheelwell on it's 1973-? full size pickups and they looked like hell in no time flat. In fact, there were later aftermarket chrome and stainless steel add on "covers" to hide the damage and/or protect the finish.

delrick

Just leased a 2002 Envoy XL.

Jumped on the chance to walk away from a 2000 Bravada lease.

Reason, Bravada ride quality was choppy, vehicle was loud and shifts were an adventure.

Drove the XL and was amazed at the difference in ride quality. The added space and power was a great step up too.

Found a more fully equipped Envoy, non-XL.

Test drove it. It rode just like the Bravada we were sick of.

If you read the details of the suspension mods alone in the XL you can justify the price difference.

cmack4

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to as the "suspension" differences. All of the triplets including the "XL" versions use the same suspension, with the exception of the ECAS (air suspension) option that replaces the rear coil springs and has a load leveling mechanism. It's possible that is what you experienced. However, it's standard on the 2002 Bravada, and an option on the Envoy/XL. It's not available on the TB.

ross1962

I bought the cargo liner from the Chevy dealer. It was a lot cheaper than the Husky one, about $50 or so, fits well and the color matches. I would visit them and check theirs out first.

paisan

The XL should ride better due to the longer wheelbase. Just like a limo has a nice soft ride.

-mike

delrick

Had a data sheet that I thought was describing XL suspension features, including Bilstein shocks etc.

If the suspensions are the same in both versions, then it may well be the added wheelbase.

The non XL we drove was an SK package which has everything including the air load levelers.

There is tremendous difference in ride quality between the standard and XL versions, IMO.

Try em both by all means.

2002slt

I went from a '98 Bravada to an '02 Envoy. There's nothing even close in ride quality between the two. The Bravada was truck like, and the Envoy is not. If you want to drive something that reminds you of the Bravada, test-drive the new Mountaineer. I couldn't believe how rough it was.
Good luck with your new ride!

dhgray

Interesting that no one replied to my earlier email, am I the only one left with a broken TB?

The dealer still hasn't fixed it, the service writer said that the loss of speedometer was what was causing the problems, and that seemed to be coming frm one of three sensors, which the shop was slowly testing one by one. Does that sound right to anyone?

BTW, went back to post 5900 today and saw no problem quite like mine, so I feel less guilty about possibly repeating something.

gator36

dhgray,
A problem with the electrically sensed speedo can cause all hell to break loose. On most new GM vehicles the trans is controlled by the computer.
The computer relies on a vss (speed) sensor to tell it how fast it is going. All of this same information is used for the ABS system as well.
I had a 97 GMC Sierra that had a similar problem. But it worked out to be a loose connection at the VSS.

Walter

dieselnerd

Here is something you might find useful. I noticed a couple of small chips on my TB rear door edges after about 1000 miles. I purchased some "door edge protectors" at the local auto parts store. They are strips that can be applied to door edges and have an adhesive inside to ensure they don't fall off. They come in various colors (I used black) and after installation they look like they came with the vehicle. From a few feet away they become invisible and they do stop any more paint chipping. Several other TB owners saw my "fix" and did the same to theirs. Something GM should have done at the factory.

tblazed

Just finished reading over this months article (July '02) GM Tech Link newsletter which features a great explanation of how the electronic fan clutch works.

http://service.gm.com/techlink/html_en/index.html

guy21

If anyone is interested, there is a post regarding GMs TSB for engine knocks in the I-6. It is under Pickups - GM Engine Knock - Post #149.

tlauro

It's not bad but still a bummer. Mainly a time killer for me as the morning was shot. Had my Nikon Digital with me though and should have pics up tonight.

An older Corolla slammed into the rear of an 01 Montero who then hit me. The Step Hitch that for me doubles as a bumper gaurd did it's job absorbing most all the impact and folding up like a twist tie. No one was hurt and the guilty driver was very honest that he was just not looking at traffic ahead that was completely stopped.

The hitch is perfect and the receiver part is strong as heck. Overall, the I need a new rear bumper assembly which is ordered in painted and then installed. The new Hitch Step and clear StonGard Bra that I also had applied to the rear of the vehicle will be covered and replaced too.

No big deal, but since the total damage is $1,200 and over the $1k insurance thing....the party at Fault's Insurance Adjuster needs to come give it a look-see and sign off on it.

That's my day....look for pics of all the vehicles later!

mfullmer

I agree, I'm over it too. In any case, it's interesting about the harness because when I was having problems with my stereo speakers humming they replaced just about everything (3 speakers, the ENTIRE stereo unit). During this time I went back to get the CD's out of the unit (they didn't even check before they took it out!) which they had out of the car. When they plugged in the harness to the back of the stereo (to eject the CD's) the door chimes started working.

stever

Bummer Tim - but it is nice that you had a camera around though to get "proof". Maybe you should email the pics to the adjuster and save her a trip!

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

tlauro

for those that are interested.


http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/crash-july-02-main.htm


I'll have to live with it for a week or two but by then all should be ordered, replaced and ready to wash up once again.


tim

tblazer503

hey tim, quick question.. did the hitch pin come out? I'm curious because I bent one when a Jeep rear ended me, and it was a pain to get out... no damage, though, looks like your truck fared pretty well overall... If only the the hitch step came with some rubber on the ends to protect the bumper... =o) then it would have only been the hitch step. That montero is gonna cost a grip to fix though, ouch. Well, glad to hear that there weren't any injuries.

tlauro

here's a link to a section of my site that I've put up for others to feature. notice the really nice Envoy with twin Borla Guns Pointing out the back and the Bright Orange Cold Air Intake that Scott has on the streets of Indy. Nice job Scott.

http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/other-trailblazers/other-triplet-mods/1-other-triplet-mods.htm

tblazer503

hey all, found out that Jet has released their plethora of chips for the triplets. They have 2 Tranny chips and 2 Engine enhancing chips.
www.performanceintl.com has pretty reasonable prices.
partnum. desc. retail price
20003 STAGE 1 307.35 230.51
20003S STAGE 2 317.95 238.46
50100 SCU2000 190.75 143.06
70701 POWER SHIFT 169.55 127.16
ALL SHIPPING IS 7.50EA 2ND DAY UPS
after talking with the rep for about 20 min heres a rundown of what all this does. stage 1 & 2 are for the engine, and stage 1 is milder than stage2. They say most likely you will have to run at least 89 or better octane for the stage 2 and gas mileage will probably go down much more than stage 1. Not sure if this is worth it for the estimated 5-10 hp extra gain. oh well your decision. scu2000 is the speed control unit that will adjust the shift points on the transmission and the powershift will electronically increase the internal pressure of the transmission to give firm, crisp shifts. I believe the rep said it had 3-4 modes including stock and 33%better, 50% better somthing like that. He is currently checking to see if Jet has them in stock to ship, in any case I have the powershift kit on order. Tim, I'll send you the install pics as soon as I get the unit.

tlauro

the hitch and pin were fine. I had the body shop est. fellow remove it to be sure. just the step got damaged and of course the plastic bumper.

tlauro

are you sure they are shipping? The company you linked to, Performance International was where I originally saw the Jet Information, but Jet said they were out of line by posting it so soon...and that was months ago.

I just got the email the other day regarding a prototype purchase for my LTZ and they said 30-45 days. Scott Bindley in Indy is going to be testing both Jet and Hypertech so we can compare. With a 17-20hp dyno gain and a good 15-20 from Borla, things should be sweet. Here's the chain of emails: Read them from bottom up.

Testing averaged 17-20 at the wheels on our dyno.
>
> From: "Tim Lauro"
> Date: 2002/07/15 Mon AM 09:40:52 PDT
> Subject: RE: Trailblazer Yet?
>
> any hints on Dyno data?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:20 PM
> To: timlauro@timlauro.com
> Subject: Re: Trailblazer Yet?
>
> Circuit boards and pins are done, waiting on the mold for the plastic casing. In CNC machining right now. 30-45 days at least for release.
> >
> > From: "Tim Lauro"
> > Date: 2002/07/14 Sun PM 06:21:28 PDT
> > Subject: Trailblazer Yet?
> >
> > any update on the ETA or status of the Inline 6 4200 in my 02 Trailblazer?
> >
> > -tim

tblazer503

Daggonnit, sorry guys/gals, but just talked to the Jet rep, and found out that they won't be shipping until roughly October, I'm kinda bummed. that sux. But the prices are still good. It looks like Hypertech is going to be a few more months out also. =o(

Glad that you had no major damage, Tim.

iexplore2000

Hey Tim... I saw the pics and the TB did really good for this 3 car pile up.. of course both you and I know that this is OHHH SOOO typical in Columbus rush hour traffic! Were you on I-270 when this occurred?

I was in Columbus this past weekend and with all the construction going on towards downtown, I had my eyes CONSTANTLY glued on the rear-view mirror just in case someone decided to test out my rear bumper as well. It's kind of sad that some would rather spend time doing other things while in their vehicles besides driving it, espeically during rush-hour traffic. At any rate, glad that you are okay! I wish you the best with getting your bumper replaced. Are you going to let Byers Dublin handle your repair? That's where I purchased my Impala from last month and they treated me VERRRYY GOOOD..

Good Luck!

IExplore2000@aol.com

scottc454

Geez, I used to live in Ohio and would drive between Cincinnati and Cleveland fairly often. I seem to remember Columbus always being under construction. I guess some things never change.

As for CAI, chips, and exhaust mods - I think the only thing that would truly help me with this thin air out here would be a turbo or supercharger.
I know they exist for the V-8's, but I'd think the 10:1 compression ratio would stand in the way for the 4.2.

tblazer503

actually, i got a letter from whipple about 6 weeks ago confirming that they have one developed and it is currently in testing. havent heard much about actual specs yet, i would guess about 6-8psi would be a good boost level, that with oil squirters for the lifters, like the twin turbo trailblazer(except w/o the lower compression pistons) Im hoping for about 400-450 hp, that would be nice.

tlauro

not I-270....just over off Snouffer and Sawmill area by Shell...where I was headed.

I didn't take it to Byers as they don't have a body shop in Dublin..Crestview Caddy does and while they are great for service, their Body Shop is pretty small and I don't know anyone there.

Dan Tobin has the latest and greatest equipment and I know folks there. They will be taking care of the work.

blrmkr

Does anyone here know if Fuel Induction Service + a new fuel filter is worth $120 + $46.50? The service claims to clean the fuel injectors, clean the throttle plate, and de-carbon the intake valves. The Triplet owners manual recommends replacing the fuel filter at 30k miles. I've got 30k miles now and would like to get some feedback from the group before I plunk down almost $200.

dieselnerd

In my opinion, unless you are running rough or have other symptoms of clogged or dirty injectors, paying for this service is a waste of money. Dirty injectors used to be a problem with early fuel injected vehicles because the fuel was not really formulated for fuel injectors and it would slowly gum them up. Today's fuel contains injector cleaners that work pretty well. If you had 100,000 miles on the vehicle it's possible you might need cleaning. Look at the maintenance schedule in the owners manual, if it needed cleaning it would be in there. Change the fuel filter as recommended and leave the rest alone.

gator36

Just got word last night.

My wife had to take an emergency trip to Texas.
She took our LS TrailBlazer 2wd with her and it has done excellent on the 1500 mile trip there.
Apparently when she was in the hospital visiting a family member someone hit her TB and ran. She walked out to see "Something wrong". Someone had hit the passenger side quater panel and tail light. I received some pics of it but because of the color (pewter) it is hard to tell how much damage.
We will see in a day or two when she gets home...