Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

previousamigo

Ok, here I go again. If I don't install fog lights in my TB where the cut outs are for the LT and LTZ, what about the 2 small openings on either side of the license plate holder. It looks like I might be blocking a radiator and would the wiring get to hot there??? Has anyone installed fog lights there??? What potential problems would I have there??? The more I see the cut outs that others have done for fog lights where they are for the LT and LTZ, the less I want to cut out the grills. I figure I could fit them in by the license plate and hope and wait for the fog light kit in a few years from Chevy. I really need them for driving at night in the rain and snow (even with as little rain as we have had.

iexplore2000

Tblazed..

Actually, I forgot to mention in my previous posting. I do have the 4 x 4 with the 4.10 axle ratio. The "off-the-line" performance is still not the greatest.

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

tbltext

Child seat notes:
Thanks for all the information, and for reminding me of the Child seat classes, I completely forgot that they had them. Also for letting me know that you had to pull the belt all the way out, I did that the first time and it didn't seem to work, belt was still loose, gonna try again tonight.
Last night I received a pamphlet from Oxford Health on Child seats and they state that the middle is the safest position Also, that by 9/02 all vechiles built must have the child seat tethers these are the square loops located under the seats at the bend. Adapter straps can be purchased to retro any of the old style seats to fit in the new tether design (02 Trailblazers have the child seat tethers). SO I think for peace of mind I will go with the middle seat and purchase the tethers to adapt the seat I have (in 03 I will upgrade my child seats for both my kids).
Thanks again, oh by the way Zaino's show car polish works great on the Onyx Black..a lot of effort the first time though but worth it.. thanx tlauro for the tb information..
by the way does anyone know if anyone makes the Ventshade for the side windows for the EXT or running boards??
Regards
happy trailblazering

tlauro

thats the bummer about the 4.2l vs the 5.3l V8. IMO, there's no way GM should be putting the 4.2 in the EXT's. sure there's plenty of power on the road and passing but there's a lot to be desired out of the 4.2 in the torque area.

just my thoughts as an LTZ owner with 3.73's.

tim

gam2

My Bravada has plenty of power. Sure it could use more, but remember these things weigh well over 4500 lbs! I bet the 5.3 V-8's get far worse gas mileage. 0-60 in 8 seconds is plenty good. If not, I drive my Z-28.

As far as the screamer S-10, I used to drive a '72 Toyota pickup that would chirp the tire in third gear (manual). Pickups are so light in the rear it's hard NOT to spin the tires.

GAM2

segel10

I have a Trailblazer LT and want to order the splash guards but am confused. There are two numbers listed for the front splash guards.
12497726 (with flares)
12497608 (without flares)

What do they mean flares? As I said, I have the LT.

Thanks for all the help, this is a great group for a new owner to be using for reference.

segel10

kevs8n1

Thanks Popupcamper and Maj01. Based on your details, I found the wires and had the Tekonisha Prodigy setup in about 15 minutes.

paisan

Have to agree with you. As you all know I'm a big Isuzu fan. The guys over there keep talking SC for the 3.5l engine in the Troopers. Not one of them though can give me a reason other than speed/acceleration for the SC. I tow a 5500lb trailer with it up and down the adirondacks and am not lacking in power for that duty, so I tell em if I want to go fast I take out my SVX

-mike

bigd777

Just a thought on the AC issue of having hot air till a restart is done on Envoys.
I've had this problem for wahile now and I've been treated to the great GMC technical advice from 3 different dealers, "if it we can't reproduce it, we can't fix it."
Anyway, thought of doing the following. the next time this 'unreproducable" problem happens, I'll try to call OnStar to see if they can run one of their diagnostics. I ran this by one of the GM service managers and he thought it couldn't hurt.
Will report back next time this happens and see if I can stand the Dallas high heat long enough to get the OnStar to look at this.

tidester

"if it we can't reproduce it, we can't fix it."This sounds like a candidate for publication in the Journal of Irreproducible Results.

tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

2k_impala_ls

The splash guards you need are without flares. The only models that have the flares are the LTZ's . I also know the front guards won't fit if you have the running boards.

2k_impala_ls

I have the cd w/ cassette upgrade and it is supposed to have 6 speakers. I am pretty sure that nothing comes out of the speaker holes in the dashboard. They must have pulled the same trick as my 2k Impala. it has 8 speakers in 4 locations. They consider co-axial speakers 2 speakers. what a rip-off.

iexplore2000

I had mentioned a possible suggestion to my buddy (envoy2002) that lives in Columbus and drives to and from patient's houses throughout the day. Since there are quite a few GMC dealerships in Columbus, I suggested that IF the problem should reoccur, he should immediately take it to a nearby dealership so that they could at least "witness" the issue. Actually, if the dealership cares about customer service, they should be more than willing to have a technician bring out that special electronic gizmo to check out the main computer for trouble codes.

Unfortunately for me, my Envoy isn't driven that much during the week (hence I use my other vehicle to get to a from work) and there are not too many GMC dealerships in my area. For those of you who have many GMC dealerships at your disposal, I would strongly suggest that if the problem should recreate, maybe a quick "unannounced" visit directly to the dealership may get the wheels spinning on this issue.

Good Luck!

IExplore2000@aol.com

tblazer503

6speakers issue: have pulled off the door panel, and found that in the front doors, there is a molding for a 6.5" full range and a tweeter in one molding, but still separates(spelling?) oh well, anyways, the rears have just a 6.5" full range speaker in them. So that makes 6 speakers. As far as I can tell, in the non-Bose systems, the small dash speakers do nothing but the chimes(and onstar integration)
Lack of power: Remember that you have the 3.42, that is about 8% of a taller differential than the 3.73 and about 14% taller than the 4.10 you probably will only see about 5% better MPG, but IMO, the 3.73's have a soft torque converter anyways, so that with the taller gears should make a very smoooth ride, w/o the comfort. With the 3.73's I've had lots of fun =o) all my tires were @ 5/32's after 5k mi.(partially crappy BFG's, mainly my agressive driving) Then I changed to 245/75/16's (30.7") tires from the 245/70/16's(OE 29.7") 3.3% taller tires(final gearing change) make a pretty large difference in the accelerating characteristics so I can imagine what an 8% change in final gearing would do.(theoretically GM should have compensated somehow for this, though, right?)
Hope this helps some.

blrmkr

Unlike tblazer503, I have no complaints about the BFG tires with the 3.73. I feel that they are superior in all-weather conditions to any other tire I've had on a vehicle. I haven't measured the tread depth, but I'd say that at 31k miles I visually have at least 1/2 the tread I had when I drove the truck off the lot. I'm just hoping this set can get me through another Michigan winter. BTW, I have rotated the tires every 7.5k miles.

kimodo

Hi all,

    Just recently installed a K&N Filter and modified the air box much the same way as John Skiba did. (see Tlauro's webpage http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/other-trailblazers/other-triplet-mods/john-skiba/john-skiba-main.htm for pics) Your site rocks...

    I also put a K&N into my '98 accord. Increased pickup in the accord was much more noticable than in the TB. Climbing Hills was much easier than before, with the TB pretty much keeping a steady speed with my position constant on the pedal unless there is a really steep grade. Before I installed the K&N, I could remember having to push down the pedal when climbing hills, especially with people aboard. Haven't ran the tank yet so I can't comment on the mpg, although about half way through, looks to be the same.

      As for the question about amplifiers, I've read that some people have upgraded their stereos and have installed amplifiers. I was wondering where it was mounted, and what the best place is for it. I don't really want to sacrifice any cargo room, so wondering what you all did with your amps.

tblazed

Don't get me wrong I think my TB with the 3.42's has great power at speed, say on the highway, after I get the RPMs up to over 3500-4 grand or so, it's like an engine with a split personality I guess attributable to the cam advance that kicks in. I would like some of that top-end power down in the normal driving range. When I pull out into a busy city street and cars are coming at you at 45+ mph and I have 3 other people in the TB with the AC on, it would be a lot nicer if some of that power was available in this type of situation. Flooring it almost feels like it bogs down rather than hauling ... well you know...

When you changed tire diameter that will effect speedo calibration. Did you notice that? You could use a GPS unit to check speed and highway mile markers to check the odometer accuracy. Maybe some aftermarket company will figure out a way to recalibrate the computer to different tire sizes.

babyshoes

Just went to the dealer to pick up mudflaps for all four corners of my Envoy XL with running boards. His details said that you can't put the molded ones on the front if you have running boards. He, his Mechanic, and I all went out to the vehicle and saw no problem for fitment. I will be putting them on this weekend and will try to post some pics.

So, if your dealer is telling you the flat Generic ones are the only ones to fit, Grab the molded contoured ones and the dealer and show him that he is wrong!

axsysman

I, too, have issues with the power off the line. Something seems to be holding back the power when you open the throttle all the way from a standstill, it does seem like it bogs down. My Envoy has always done this, but is great on the highway, especially if you keep it in 2nd or 3rd to keep the RPM's up. Maybe the computer is doing it since it controls the throttle position, etc. I can only hope that someone comes out with a computer re-calibration to get more low end torque.

axsysman

...of course it is a truck and not a sportscar! But the power ratings seem misleading.

dammitjim1

I just had the opportunity to test drive an LTZ out of a dealership in Manhattan. The truck was fully loaded, Bose, 6CD, rear seat DVD, locking differential

The test drive wound up being close to 30 minutes, due to traffic conditions on the west side. This area is kind of an acid test for an SUV considering the condition of the roads, and the need to execute frequent avoidance maneuvers in order to dodge the taxis that that constantly dart in front of you then STOP.

I finally got off 11th Ave, and managed to get it briefly up to 60mph on the West Side Highway. I found the acceleration to be surprisingly good, and the numerous highway bumps were scarcely felt in the cabin. It was almost hard to believe I was driving a truck.
The Bose stereo sounded great, and the A/C was strong on a 98 degree day.

I managed to get the dealer to let this one go for invoice, and signed a 3yr lease. I pick up the truck in about a week, after I terminate the lease on my 300M.

I'm looking forward to driving this one home...

iexplore2000

Well.. for me, I know that if I had my mom's 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (V-8) to use during my trip to Chicago, I would have felt absolutely comfortable trying to jockey for a lane.

The power of the 4.7L V-8's used in the JGC is awesome! Only being rated at 235 hp, you would swear that you had at least 300 hp underneath the hood. Literally, if you see a lane and want to get in it..... nooo problem.. Whereas with the triplets, I was a little leery trying to steal a lane in Chicago traffic.

For me, I need to have HP on tap when I need it most.. Off the line and expressway merging..

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

lurker01

Stopped by NAPA today to get a new air filter. I was thinking about getting the K&N filter. They said that the truck was too new and they did not have any filters in stock that would fit it. Is this the case most places or did I just go to a lousy shop? Do I need to buy from the dealer on this item? You would think that after a year, the major autopart shops would stock these things.

thanks.

scottc454

Not a lousy shop, but maybe just a lousy employee.

The K&N part number is E-1009. They might not have them in stock, but they most certainly can order them.

I'm all too familiar with some auto part store employees who are in the mindset of "if it's not in the computer, it doesn't exist." There's some that are really good, though.

polarbear6

Have a 2002 TrailBlazer LT built 10/01.

Had the fuel filter recall done in May 2002.
Also at that time complained about:
-Brake pedal squeaking when pressed,
-Rear hatch sometimes remaining locked after removing key,
-Vibration felt in the gas pedal at 57 - 60 mph,
-sometimes smell a strong petroleum, not gas smell,
-Fan noise - fan clutch ordered.
Could not duplicate the problems.
Now the A/C.
Saturday drove to a wedding an hour away, A/C fine.
Drove around for another hour revisiting our hometown, A/C fine.
After reception no A/C, even after restart. Took in on Monday for new hatch strap, A/C fine of course.

Went to the bank this morning, A/C fine came out and no A/C. Went directly to the dealer and left the car on so they could witness it. Told them about the complaints lodged here. New to them. They turned it off and restarted it still warm, however when the mechanic got it in about an hour later, guess what? A/C fine. Stated that the freon was a little low.

Does this make one or two A/C trips since the first was not witnessed?

jepping

I too, feel the lack of acceleration off the line until the engine revs around 3500 RPM then it feels like a turbo charger is kicking in. It definitely seems like the HP and torque ratings are overstated. IMO, since the engine torque is the only thing that the driver feels during acceleration, and the torque curve on the Vortec 4200 is almost flat, the cause should be the calibration of Electronic Throttle Control (ETC), (The ETC relays acceleration information to the PCM. The PCM then positions the cylinder air valve in the best position to help achieve optimum vehicle drivability). Maybe GMDRONE can shed more light on this issue?

calucyk

I'll try and make this brief. About 2 months ago, I took my vehicle in for service to have the mirrors fixed. Since the parts were unavailable, I picked up the truck and planned to take it back at a later date. I washed the truck the same day and noticed two fresh scratches, so I called the service department and reported the problem. They agreed to fix the scratches when I brought the truck in for the mirrors.

Fast forward... I pickup the vehicle, inspect the interior (for oil stains, etc.), scratches and mirrors. All looks good. Once home, I washed the vehicle so that I could do a better inspection. To my amazement, there were several vertical scratches along the drivers body cladding. Once again, I call them and they agree to correct the problem.

Fast forward... Today, I pickup the vehicle, half the vertical scratches are still there and now the passengers door has a door ding!! After several minutes of examining the truck, the service advisor wanders over and says, "Go and get into your rental again"!

What would you guys do? I was extremely pissed off. I tend to light up in these situations, but I kept my calm (its only a vehicle, right?).

Onto another topic. My Bravada makes a clicking sound (about 3-4 distinct clicks) when put into reverse and backed up. Is this "normal" behavior with all triplets?

I thought someone posted a question regarding driver doors that clunked when driven over large bumps like rail roads. I think it was a Bravada owner. What ever happen, did a service department fix the problem? If so, what was the fix?

Thanks in advance,
Tony

gam2

Guys, these things weigh nearly 5000 lbs! A Jeep GC weighs at least 750 lbs less with a bigger displacement V-8. Compare it to the 6 in the Jeep or wait for the V-8. Just don't [non-permissible content removed] about the gas mileage you are likely to get!

GAM

scottc454

To me the power band feels quite flat. Of course it feels more powerful when you're revving it higher, because it is.

As for only feeling engine torque, that's not really the best way of looking at it. You feel acceleration, and nothing more. It doesn't matter if it's due to high revving and less torque, or less revving and more torque. Even if the torque is completely constant and you stay in the same gear, your acceleration won't be constant because the rate of rev increase will speed up (then probably slow down as you get going faster)

I think the engine has every bit of 270HP,
as evidenced by its excellent passing ability.
Those numbers don't tell everything, though.
That's at 6000RPM. Supposedly it's got like 90% of the maximum torque down low, but that's still significantly less than with a V-8. With that you can't expect too much off the line grunt when trying to move 4600 lbs. The JGC is a lot lighter, has more torque, and might be geared lower.

Anyway, I think a stick shift would work wonders with this engine. If not, the Rainier's coming out with a V-8, and we can stop this talk about the JGC's power. Those Vortec V-8's can't be beat.

beach15

The problem is that the triplets' I-6 makes most all of it's power way up in the rev band. Thus, without the right gearing, you'll have to be going fast in the first place to feel the power come on. It's somewhat common with a lot of OHC engines, with the old pushrod design usually being the exact opposite.

It's kind of like the 300M we used to have. You just need to get on it more from a stop, and rev it higher, and there's more power. But, your fuel mileage will go down a little.

edl55347

I have both the running boards and MOLDED mud guards on my TB. I put both on myself and they fit very well. I originally only had the mud guards, and later added the factory boards. The two do not overlap as the dealer may have suggested.

2k_impala_ls

I GOT mine from the gm acces. website

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/accessories/modellistTra.html. They say the fronts won't work with the boards. If you think about it, the boards dont come that close to the front fender. I will get the fronts also.

smmiller

I've been surprised at how early the fuel low warning comes on. I've been finding about a 4 gallon reserve on my EXT. I hate that the DIC won't show anything else when the TB decides I need fuel.

gpap2020

Has anyone had any situation where they hear an "ice-maker" sound when the A/C is on. Just got my trailblazer EXT last week and I hear a sound similar to the sound a refrigerator makes when making ice cubes. It usually happens when the A/C is on low during acceleration and turning. Also, I am getting a squeaking mouse sound coming out of the suspension when going over small bumps at low speeds. I have taken it in and they "lubed" the suspension but it still makes the sound. In terms of the A/C noise, they said they never heard of it and even contacted GM to get some answers, with no luck. They basically told me not to worry about it and to wait because they did not want to start taking apart the dash. Can anyone make any suggestions as to what I should do at this point or has anyone one had similar problems?

iexplore2000

Well.. I know for certain that I am no "tech-head" by any means, BUT.. I do praise Jeep for using the perfect combination (i.e. engine to vehicle weight size) when the JGC Limited's were first introduced (redesigned) in 1999. When i first bought mine in 1999, I used to love running down the guys with the "souped up" imports with the nitrous oxide onboard. Additionally, I praise them for their versatility by allowing you to get either a V-6 or V-8 across the total model line. I am trying not to open a can of worms here, just stating the facts from Jeeps perspective (in which many might be aware of the various problems/issues they have faced as well).

Yeah the vehicle may weigh less, BUT they did pick a perfect combination on the design board to give you great combinations. Personally, I am glad that GM decided not allow the V-8's to be used in the regular wheelbased triplets and only the Buick Ranier.. WHY?? RESALE! At least that saves our butts (or maybe just mine)?

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

mjdart

Ordered a complete set Monday night at 4:30 picked 'em up Wed. night. Rear installation needed removal of the rear wheels in order to drill two holes and also to allow screwdriver clearance. The fit is excellent and I am very pleased with the shape and look. I not real keen on the white bowtie but more on that later. Fronts were much easier to install just turn wheels all the way left and then later right to gain access. Again the fit is perfect and looks and protection offered make them worth it. Now about the bowtie emblem. I have a silicone spray I use on my tires to protect the rubber and blacken them. I wiped some on the splash guards and guess what - the white bowtie smeared right off. I totally removed it on the left front so I then did the right front. Now its on the back guards only. I'll check with the wife as to her preference and see if she wants them removed as well. I'm telling you this because some will be put off by the bowtie and some will want it. Either way its easy to remove. Cost was $29 a pair, actually cheaper than many places on-line and these fit like GM expects them to.

tblazer503

I did figure out how much difference I have on my overall diameter, and found that on the freeway, I am usually off by about 2-4 mph; not that big a deal, but I do plan to get a reprogrammer for it when they become available. The best times I have heard from Jet is October for the trans chips, and Hypertech is going to be somewhere in the early December range.

envoy_xl

smmiller - You can get the DIC to display other data after the low fuel alarm goes off... you just have to hit the clear/enter button (bottom right, lower button). Just like you'd clear the mileage or timer.

BTW, I think that the Envoy has plenty of power. I drive an Envoy XL, upgrading from a '98 Isuzu Rodeo, and I'm extremely pleased with the Envoy's power. No, the Envoy isn't the ultimate race-SUV, but it's got more than enough power to beat many cars and the vast majority of SUVs.

If you want a dog as far as acceleration - think 4-runner or Expedition IMHO. Sounds like people are comparing an I6 to a V8 as if they should be equal in performance. A more accurate comparison would be to compare the I6 to a V6 (like my old Rodeo) - hands down the I6 is a great engine.

paisan

Too bad you couldn't wait for the Ascendor, then you could have gotten the Envoy Xl with the V8. The I6 must be real good cause the V6 in the '98 Rodeo was pretty powerful.

-mike

jwinky

Gpap,

I, too, have had the ice maker noise. It only happens on occasion when I start the Envoy in the morning and make one of my first turns. My seems to be coming from the right side of the dash. Now that I think about it, it has been a while since it has happened. It hasn'r concerned me too musch and I have not mentioned it to the dealer yet.

JAW

tbltext

My AC on the EXT gives out a hiss noise and I can't locate any leaks..off to the dealer but not just yet I can live with it for now ( it works fine).
THE SQUEAK, I had a similar noise and could not pin point it right away--then low and behold it was the ceiling--somehow the ceiling came loose from the clips that hold it in place--squeak-squeak--so a firm push up on the ceiling right where the console is and around the sunroof area, click click click locked back into place and no more squeak--I don't know if you pin pointed it yet but that was where mine came from--hope it helps...
Happy Trailblazering

tblazed

The TrailBlazer started out over a year ago being touted as the most powerful SUV in its class "After the 270 horsepower Chevy TrailBlazer.. everything else is just weak" I think is how the advertising went. So GM leads us to expect these things to really perform. At highway speeds AND off the line. They compared it to V8 power in an inline 6. I was sold on those statements. Yes it likely has 270@6100 RPM but like I said before, who drives hard enough to be red-lining it like that to actually utilize that HP? More low-end torque and less top-end HP would be more suitable in a truck, but that would blow the advertising and marketing claims as the most powerful in its class.

I know I have compared my TBs off-line torque and throttle response to my '88 S-10 4.3 V6 TBI w/ 700-R4 automatic and 3.08 rear gears, and yes the S-10 is about 1300 lbs lighter (3200 GVW vs. 4500), but the S-10's V6 is only rated at 160 HP and 235 ft-lbs torque too, giving it about a 20:1 weight to power ratio, as opposed to a 16:1 ratio for the TB. Where the other big difference is with these two, the S-10 runs out of oomph at 80-85 MPH, the TB is strong all the way to 100 mph, up there where all the power is. (Not too sure if it will go any faster than that. 100 is as far as I have pushed it - once. )

tblazer503

I think a nice feature to have available from the factory would be a "power shift" mode. =o) For those of us who want to feel the 275ft/lbs of torque and get a nice little jolt as the tranny shifts... instead of the smooth comfortable car-like ride... I don't know, I suppose now manufacturers are trying to satisfy the vast majority of people into buying with a smooth ride, and strong engine that is rarely felt. Coming from GM, I am kind of dissapointed that there is no Z71 or ZR2 model. Even an Extreme model would be kind of cool to see. (maybe the twin-turbo vortech vortec 4200? =o)) Just to kind of separate the different Triplet personalities. Just a thought...

envoy_xl

I didn't want the Ascender or the V8. The I6 can pull a boat with 7 passengers, has more than enough acceleration, and has better fuel economy than the V8. The V8 has 10 more HP than the I6 (and 50 more torque) - not much gain really.

This might sound like a silly reason not to buy a SUV - but I HATE the name Ascender. It's just the butt of too many jokes (heh, sorry). The second anything goes wrong with it, I can just see my buddies saying, "Yeah, I guess that's why they call it the A**ender."

In addition, it felt really GOOD to buy a quality American vehicle. (Especially with most of the bugs worked out by the time the XL went into production.) Yes, I know that GM owns half of Isuzu - but I just feel better after 9/11 putting money back into America, rather than over-seas.

brewpaul

Our Envoy is about year old and has developed an annoying problem. When running for more than a couple hours (highway driving) the air bag warning light comes on and remains on. When the car cools down for a few hours it goes off & does not come on again until you are highway driving for a few hours again.

Anyone have any ideas? The dealers all say the typical ... " if we can't reproduce it, we can't fix it."

paisan

You do know that the Ascendor is made by GM, so your money is going right back to GM no matter what? Also you do know that a lot of parts in "american" cars are from overseas right? I'm suprised you are buying into the "buy american" mantra which just isn't true anymore.

-mike

envoy_xl

As I posted paisan, I know that GM owns HALF of Isuzu. But more profit will stay in America by buying a GMC rather than an Isuzu, regardless of international parts. If you want to shoot down what makes me feel good about buying Americian, feel free Paisan. But I'll still feel that there's something to buying Americian.

BTW, it's spelled Ascender, not Ascendor.

babyshoes

Called GM about the Travel promotion and they said to bad. My dealer hasn't gotten back to me yet. Any other place would work with you. I bought the Envoy Thursday, 7/25 and Saturday the GM flyer about getting an extra $1K on top of the 0 for 60 showed up in my mailbox.

tblazed

Yep that would be nice - a mode switch that you could select between soft, imperceptable shifts and more agressive and firm performance shifts. Especially considering that the trans is electronically controlled by the computer. The aftermarket guys have a prime market waiting in mods for these beasts.

As far as versions of the TB, in my personal info for this discussion board since January when I 1st signed on is as follows: "My dream car is a TrailBlazer Xtreme V8 AWD" .

It took GM 5 years to finally put a 350 5.7L V8 in the 3rd gen F-body Camaros and Firebirds. From '82 'til the 5.7L finally showed up in '87. Maybe eventually TB sales will slow down enough that they will make more versions and options available to perk up interest.

I was ready to wait 'til '03 or '04 to buy a TB until the $2002 cash back deal (with that 1969 The Ides of March -" Vehicle" song for the jingle) started in January, and seeing base price increases coming, along with my almost $3200 in my GM MasterCard rebate account, plus getting 10% off the sticker, ( I got a heck of a deal on it!) I figured what the heck- I'll get one now and trade it in on another one a couple of years when they get them refined. Overall I am still very impressed that GM could come out with a completely new vehicle and be as good as it is.

tblazed

Has anyone actually HEARD what this Borla system sounds like? I think I will want to go with one, but until I actually hear one to make sure the dB's are under control noise-wise I will be waiting. Certainly do not want to be competing with the guys running around with their "brappp-brappp!" megaphone exhaust systems. That seems to be the trend these days.