Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

tblazed

If that were the case the manufacturers would do that along with the VINs on the doors and other parts that they already mark. If it is simply etched into the glass with acetic acid, that can be polished out with cerium oxide and the appropriate power tool. Some do sandblast it into the glass. Harder to grind and polish that out but can still be done. If it was effective the insurance companies would give discounts for it. In Texas anyway they don't. Texas Board of Insurance doesn't allow it. My friend knows all about that with his etched TrailBlazer. $370 later. Point was dealers springing that on you at the last minute as an already added on option. Kind of the extra dealer add-on "paint sealant-upholstry protectant" of the new Millenium! Actually they have been doing that for years. A lot of Camaro and Firebird replacement T-Tops were sandblasted with the VIN after the originals were stolen.

Now if you want an effective theft deterrent, get LoJack. All the police departments here have the ability to track LoJack-equipped vehicles.

scottc454

I realize I'm being completely nitpicky and should not be posting this trivial point, but acetic acid is vinegar and won't etch glass no matter how loud you yell at it. Hydrofluoric acid is the preferred chemical for this.

I see no value in paying for the etching, but if you got screwed and paid an extra $370, big deal. Don't beat yourself up over it. In the grand scheme of things, that's a drop in the bucket compared to the total cost of the vehicle. You're getting screwed to begin with by buying a brand new vehicle.

tblazed

Hey Scottc454 thanks for correcting me! You know us old geezers that were out buying '65 Corvair Corsas and '70 Chevelles when most of you youngsters were still crawling around on the floor or hadn't even been conceived yet need our brain cells rattled sometimes! I do remember using concentrated acetic acid cleaning grout between tiles but that was way back in the late 60's. And I learned about HTML commands here too this week. Wowee!

Glass etching -$370 here, $370 there - pretty soon it adds up to quite a few $$$ for the dealer. And my friend that bought it anyway got to finance that $370 for 60 months. He unfortunately bought in-between the interest rate deals back in March. The way they do it to you (dealer add-ons that is) is the question, not that etching is done or its effectiveness.

.... And now.. for something completely different...

tblazed

This past week when taking off normally from a stop I have felt the transmission slip in 1st gear. My TB has about 3300 miles on it. Feels like tire slippage but it is definitely not. I get this "slip-grab-slip-grab" sensation has happened twice in a week. Too intermittent to take to a dealer. I doubt they could reproduce it. And the trans oil level it right on the mark.
Anyone else experienced this?

mhenderson1

I'm considering buying a 2003 Envoy SLT. Has anyone received a good deal for this vehicle and what options did you get?

I'll be starting my search for the best deal soon if everything goes right. Also, is there an advantage with buying from a large dealer than a small one?

tbltext

Has anyone experienced this:
When reversing down my street last night I heard a loud squeak, clink, clunking noise from what seemed to be the brakes..the sitituation was this, came to a stop, put truck in reverse, stepped on gas, started to back into parking spot, stepped on brakes sudden (cause I thought I was going to hit the car behind) heard a really bad squeak,clink,clunking noise from all the brakes..or suspension..street was a slight decline as I went down, but the noise was really loud.., so I pulled out in drive to straighten truck and see if it would do it in forward..so accelerated and jammed on brakes, noise appeared again as truck came to a rest..reversed and jammed on brakes and clink, clunk, squeak...no adverse effect on stopping but sounds like calapers are loose or something...Has anyone else had this?? The LT EXT I have only has 2500 miles on it...Really noticable in reverse. In forward noticable when truck starts to rest from sudden stop...
Taking to dealer on Saturday...

delrick

Thanks for the reply.

Your description is about verbatim the story I finally got from the dealer.

Doesn't make me any happier, but I guess I actually didn't pay for it.

Thanks again

tblazer503

My TB does that also, I figure its the "anti-squeal" plates on the not-very-small pads for the brake system on the vehicle. The clinking only happens for me when initially braking and usually when the vehicle sets down to a stop from braking. Haven't found any loose bolts or anything yet, but I figure its those dang plates against the caliper. Could be the drums in the rear discs also... Does anyone elses squeal like a piggy when you drive with the parking brake up? =o) (I tried to launch with the parking brake up to hold the back tires, yup, parking brake wont hold the torque on this thing... lol) As for the glass etching, I haven't seen many places actually etch the VIN of the vehicle into the windows, perhaps if you get them done aftermarket, but if the dealer is trying to sell it to you, and all the cars have it, they wouldn't put the VIN in because then only um... hopefully no one would buy it because, well what would be the point in registering(much less paying for) something that will only match your vehicle anyway? The point I was making is that if the windows are etched, and you don't have it registered, who else knows it but you? How does a criminal professional or otherwise know that it is or isn't registered with the company? Secondly, does it make a difference? Would make it kind of hard to sell with etching on it that includes a 1800 number.

tblazed

I can say that I have never heard a sound from the brakes on my TrailBlazer. Even backing up or going forward with the parking brake partially engaged. I find myself doing that (not intentionally) in my effort to keep the auto-headlights off til I get backed out of the garage and into the daylight. If I get out to the street and go forward the chime will sound reminding me the brake is engaged but that's it.

As far as the VIN etched or sandblasted into the glass if you notice the mfg GM has put the VIN on various parts already. All the police have to do is run the VIN on their mobile computer and they can find out in an instant if the number comes back as stolen. No need to call some "800" number. Any legitimate used parts shop would certainly avoid having VIN marked parts on the premises I would think. And, more difficult for the thieves to sell marked parts. I think that's the theory anyway.

smmiller

I too have experienced it twice. Both times it happened when leaving my driveway and then the symptoms disappeared.

Also I am seeing a potential issue with my factory running boards...The flat piece on top is starting is separate. Anyone else seen that?

envoyenvy

Anyone have any suggestions for keeping the window trim looking new? seems a shame for such a nice truck to have trim that looks old already

tlauro

Well, it's been a while since I directed everyone to the potential of WAAG products but finally, I'll know first hand how they look on my LTZ.

They are all due in tommorrow and hopefully with the holiday weekend, I'll have time to put them all on. Once all the stuff is on, I'll probably be offering up my Stock LTZ running boards for anyone interested. Details to come.

I'll be updating the entire section on my site which overall is in need of an update badly. My apologies for the static data for the past few weeks. Anyone have any free time that you can email me

tim
http://www.timlauro.com

WAAG Items Due in:
Front Runner
Rear Bumper Guard
Running Board Tubes
Tail Light Guards

2k_impala_ls

When I got my TB, it was swapped from another dealer. I found out that they swapped with a dealer from buffalo and I am in Albany. One of those dealers must have etched it becauase my dealer never mentioned it and I did not pay extra for it. It has a 1-800 #, I will call tomorrow to see what they say just to be curious.
Also my TB was driven over 300 miles on the thruway, I was so PO'd and the dealer said it would not harm the engine. Then why does the manual tell you to keep it under 55mph for the 1st 500 miles?

tblazed

Try Mother's "Back to Black". Works for me.

tblazed

I guess I don't see the reason why the 1-800 number etcched in the glass would be any advantage over just the VIN. If an etched window shows up in somewhere how do they know with just a phone number what vehicle that window was originally in? Does it also have a serial or tracking number with that 800# too?

Hopefully they varied the speed on that 300 mi transit. The wrong thing to do is put a brand-new engine on the highway and set the cruise control. I bought mine 210 miles up in OK and went up there to get it myself rather than have a local dealer handle it for me just so I could run it at various speeds. However I did somehow manage to get it (well) above 55 a few times! Main thing they say is important is varying the engine speed so the rings and cylinder walls will set correctly. Have seen "90% of the break-in happens within the 1st 500 miles" but don't quote me on that. If you have (almost) no oil consumption then it's likely OK.

bimmers

Jurassic - -

you don't want the auto system. got it in our bravada and it doesn't work as described in the owners manual. won't maintain preset temp when the vehicle is not moving b/c the recirc function doesn't work automatically and therefore warm air starts to enter the system unless you MANUALLY depress the recirc button; hardly an automatic climate control. another example of the general saying one thing in the manual then giving you less than you expected.

tlauro

Keep in mind that you may want to bring your vehicle into the dealer to insure the HVAC has the latest System Update. I had problems with mine at first on the heat settings last winter but both the AC and Heat have been fine since.

My GTP doesn't activate the Recirculate either. That's for super cooling and in most cases it will cause my wife to say, "it's too cold in here"

In the past two weeks I've spent 5 days on the road with an average of 4hrs/day in the car with a Co-Worker who just today commented on how niether one of us touched the setting of the HVAC the whole day. It just worked perfectly.

tim

BIMMERS WROTE:
"won't maintain preset temp when the vehicle is not moving b/c the recirc function doesn't work automatically and therefore warm air starts to enter the system unless you MANUALLY depress the recirc button"

bimmers

Jurassic - -

you don't want the auto system. got it in our bravada and it doesn't work as described in the owners manual. won't maintain preset temp when the vehicle is not moving b/c the recirc function doesn't work automatically and therefore warm air starts to enter the system unless you MANUALLY depress the recirc button; hardly an automatic climate control. another example of the general saying one thing in the manual then giving you less than you expected.

tblazed

In case anyone has been sold on the value of etching you can get a do-it-yourself kit here

 http://www.autoetch.net/store.htm

Hardly justifies a $370 dealer add-on charge, but for $20 if you live in a high crime area maybe a real deal.

bimmers

it's been to the dealer twice and they (the dealer and the GM tech line) maintain that the system is operating properly. the truck is onyx so that makes it harder on the AC plus temps here have been 95 to 102 for a good part of the summer. my wife is the one who never complains of too cold, likes it around 65 degrees and this truck struggles to maintain 70 on a hot day in stop and go traffic. highway travel is better. btw, the recirc button has to be reset each time the truck restarts or the HVAC is changed from auto to another setting. this is only one of many problems we've had in 7k miles since new in december. engine backfiring, engine racing at startup sometimes, Bose CD skipping on smooth roads and switching at will to radio then back to CD again. of course this never happens for the dealer.. .

tlauro

Bimmers....I too have an Onyx Truck. Not so bad now with temps in the 80's but on both my Auto Climate Systems, 77 is about where I keep them with AC and about 72 in the winter with heat. Personal preference on temp though. Very cool in the summer for me.

If you haven't try turning the rear fan on low to help even out and cool the entire truck a bit better. Crank the air to high and 60 with Recirculate on to get the air temp cool quicker. Once you're at that level of comfort, just turn the temp up to about 77 or so and see how that does.

My LTZ immediately begins to cool down and after about 5-8 minutes, the interior is cold enough and I turn it to 77 and leave it. I also leave the rear on low all the time. Again, just to keep the truck temps even. Mental thing for me I guess.

I do agree and wish GM's next firmware upgrade included a stay on feature for the recirculate button. But then just as with the DRL's it's habit to hit it before I shift out of park.

Sorry for the other issues. Keep us posted.

tim

ron_m

tblazed,

After about 7,500 miles of operation, my 2002 TrailBlazer LTZ starting doing the same thing. At 9,000 miles of operation on a trip to the mountains, it downshifted really hard and never would shift back into automatic 3rd again. Had to leave my TB at a dealership out in the boonies for a full working week. They ended up replacing about 7 or 8 parts to correct the problem. This particular dealership faxed me a list of GM vehicles that were having the same transmission component failures as mine and it was staggering! The list contained both 2001 and 2002 year model GM vehicles. Not all of them were SUVs or pickups either.

I wish you the best of luck with this particular problem.

Regards,

Ron M.

babyshoes

I have an Envoy XL an can't find a cargo tray to fit the back while the third seat is down. Dealer has gotten it wrong. GMC site has failed me too. time to go after market. I have an email into husky and the others regarding such a product.

If anyone knows of one that would be great. the regular length triplet has no problem find a fitment. It is only the XL that is the issue.

tblazed

That's reassuring! Glad you related your incident. So much for taking the TrailBlazer up to Colorado! Mine has had that slip event a few times very intermittently and only after 15-30 min of driving, Not a cold start problem. The transmission was about the LAST thing I was concerned with buying a 1st-gen GM vehicle since that trans has been in use of a while and GM has a supposed "good" reputation for their transmissions.

previousamigo

Ya gotta check out all the problems Autoweek.com is having with their long term TrailBlazer 3Q update. It seems we do a lot of complaining about problems with the TB here, but after reading the long term tests of the TB over at Autoweek.com, I feel our complaints are valid. They seem to have the same issues listed here. I wish a few other .com auto magazines were also running long term tests of the triplets. I also hope the general is listening.

cmack4

The Auto Climate Control in my Bravada has been perfect from day one, so don't settle for less. I keep it set at 73 and even in 110 heat, it fully cools the vehicle in less than 3 mins! It has no trouble holding that temp idling without rolling either! The only thing I don't like about it is that the fan blows a little too hard for my tastes in "full auto mode" when you first start the vehicle, so I typically just keep the fan at 2 or 3 nothches.

I'm also happy to report that my parking lot dent/ding came completely out with the "Ding King". I'm very impressed with both the results and the quality of the product. It took a total of 8 pulls with the glue to get it perfect, but it worked flawlessly!

Now I just got to get a small tube of touch up paint for a small scrape on my passenger door molding. Anyone else notice the paint doesn't adhere very well to the plastic trim? Right along the raised edge, it looks like it took a bump from the edge of a door (at least it's on the lower side, where you don't really see it). Although the scrape isn't more than the size of a pencil eraser end, the paint actually bunched up (almost like latex paint) and you can see the black plastic underneath. I wonder if the stone guard stuff would prevent this?

tblazer503

Unfortunately, I expected problems with the 4l60-e tranny. The main other vehicles that hve this transmissions are the Blazer, which I have known many people with tranny problems, and I believe the c/k1500 non-HD's use the same tranny, but probably configured differently. Strange thing is that this tranny doesn't ride like either vehicle, so I was hoping that there wouldn't bee too many issues...

lurker01

My Service Engine Soon light came on yesterday. And since I was due for an oil change, I stopped in at the dealer and made an appointment. They gave me a list of things they wanted to do at 15k miles. It includes the following:
Oil change
Lube
Drain and fill front and read diff.
Drain and fill trans fluid.
Service transfer case
Balance tires
rotate tires
replace air filter
replace PCV valve
replace fuel filter

all this for only ~$520.00!

gee, what a deal. I told them to do the oil change, rotate tires and new air filter. The rest I think is BS. Does anyone feel some of this stuff is actually needed at 15k miles?

-John

blrmkr

From what others have said, I would do only what the owners manual says to do. In the first 30k, I only did oil changes and tire rotations. I had the fuel filter changed at 30k per the owners manual. As for the air filter, the triplets have a filter minder (the same one semis have) that shows when the air filter actual needs to be changed.

tlauro

I agree that the rest is a bit overkill. The tranny and diff. fluids aren't hardly needed at only 15k. More like 30k, but then Even then the tranny fluids in todays cars carry a much longer life. I did my GTP after tons of track time even at at just about 3.5yrs old and it was beautiful. Hardly needed but I went synthetic for S&G's.

PCV Valve....I don't even think the 4200 has one. There is a crankcase ventilation system, including an oil separator but it's built into the block.

Fuel filter...perhaps, but again, unless it's running a bit off my advice it to just leave it. I'm still on my same one with my other two cars and pressure/flow and power is just fine.

"I told them to do the oil change, rotate tires and new air filter. The rest I think is BS. Does anyone feel some of this stuff is actually needed at 15k miles?"

jepping

Took a trip from Malibu CA to Palm Springs CA, temperatures varied from 72 Degrees in Malibu to 119 degrees in Palm Springs. Auto climate control set on 72 throughout the trip and nobody in the truck even noticed the outside temp change. Very impressed with the A/C performance

tblazed

"Lube"? What the heck is there to lube on one of these? Looked at mine saw no grease fittings anywhere to squirt grease into. Looks sealed to me.

tlauro

Me too.....I just thought it was me and that perhaps I rushed things a bit when having looked, but didn't think so.

The system is sealed and there are no grease fittings.

tim

lurker01

Thanks for all the input!

I just spoke to the dealer and they told me they checked the front and rear axel fluid and said it 'was starting to show signs of wear' so I should have them change it. They also said the factory fluid was 'breakin fluid' and needed to be changed to 'normal synthetic' fluid. They quoted $175. I'm not sure I buy their story. Also, if the fluid really needs to be changed, is this something I can do myself? Any tips?

While I have it in the shop, I am having them address some other concerns as well. Here is a list for those of you with simular issues:
Hatch Strap broken - dealer is replacing.
Rain sensor triggers in bright sunlight - dealer is replacing sensor.
Transmission makes a clunk sound/feel while sitting at a stop light when truck is cold. (feels like it is doing a hard shift into first). - dealer says there is a SW update TSB to fix this.

Hope that info is of help to someone.

-John

envoy2002

I use the Zaino wax on it. Not shiny or with any glare or rub off...just nice black trim restoration. And in between waxing jobs, I use the Zaino "Gloss Enhancer" spray -- keeps it looking good. Reasonable pricing too. I'm sold on Zaino Brothers showroom polish/waxes. Makes me (a former over-the-counter-wax-kind-of-a-guy who always ended up with swirls and smudges) look like a pro! Lots of compliments on it and also keeps car remarkably easy to clean; If I take the truck to a hand held spray car wash, all the dirt gets blown off. It's kind of funny to even see the sprayed soap bead up on the truck!

dshepherd3

Boy what a pile crap you are being fed, the fluid shows signs of wear?!, thats nuts, if there is contamination in either fluid something is breaking down in either unit, not a fluid change issue and there is no"break in fluid" in these units, I would speak to some one in management about these unsupported recommendations!

gam2

John,

I would get them to put the BS about signs of wear and break-in fluid in writing and then send it off to GM. This kind of rip-off needs to be reported. Can you imagine how many others are getting ripped off? Use another dealer!

GAM

2k_impala_ls

Awhile back I posted about my tranny cooling lines touching the catylatic converter. Could the excess heat be causing the slipage. I got the lines off by about an inch myself. Crawl under the pass. front door and check to see how close they are. MAKE SURE THE TRUCK IS COOL, THEY GET VERY HOT.

cmack4

What a joke! $175 to change the diff fluid? That's insane. Both axles have drain plugs, and fill holes, so it's relatively painless! I swapped out my rear diff fluid (since it's a rear biased AWD system) at 8K for Mobil 1 Synth 75W-90 gear oil and it was a cinch. My stock stuff showed no signs of wear and the notion that it's a special break-in blend is BS. It ships stock with Synth in it, although not sure of the quality. Your fluid should be fine for a minimum of 30K! Most of the other stuff they suggested is BS as well. I'm guessing they're trying to make up $ as a result of warranty work! I would have the tires rotated if you haven't yet, and definitely check the air filter. The stock paper element suffers enough breathing problems from the breather box assembly when it's in good shape. I noticed a pretty substantial improvement in throttle response and low-end rev's doing a mod similar to tlauro's (www.timlauro.com) and adding a K&N filter.

stever

Lurker01, here's another point of reference for you:

The Edmunds Maintenance Guide

It'll tell you what we think you should have done and how much it should cost.



Steve

Host

SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

tlauro

Well, the WAAG products all came in but I'm going to have to wait until I have access to my nieghbors tools.

I've not yet, until now, needed to invest in a compressor or impact tools, but the job would be much easier with them.

The rear bumper gaurd attaches pretty easily, but the four bolts on the rear frame are definitely tight and for obvious reasons. No hand tool is going to budge mine anyway and I have some pretty good stuff.

I will also probably need to drill an access hole in the frame to get to the bolts on the passenger side. The driver side has an access point, but the passenger...not sure how one can get a grip on the rear side of them...perhaps a nine year old's hand would fit, but not mine.

The running boards...I may be able to put those on today but will find out soon.

The front...well, let's just say it's going to be a two man job and a lift or nice jack will be needed. My nieghbor has a lift in his garage and all the stuff needed. Like a pro shop, he's good to go.

But hey, the tail light gaurds look great

I'll keep you all posted and have pics up soon. The items are much heavier in construction than I thought and are finished and packaged great.

tim

tlauro

Okay, so I snapped a quick picture. Nothing much, but it is a start.

http://www.pbase.com/image/4334271

tblazer503

According to GMLink, these items are due every 100k miles: Trans Fluid, Xfer Case Fluid, Spark Plugs. Serpentine belt @ 60k. Fuel Filter @ 30k btw, it costs about $20 and takes 10 min at most to change. Inspect Front/rear Axle fluid @ 7500 along with the tire rotations.
I am pretty sure that everything should be fine, and most people tell me that unless you tow or totally abuse the diffs, you should be good on the fluid for at least 30k.
This reminds me of my buddy who said that Acura told him he MUST use Honda oil in his '02 TL-S or it would void his factory warranty. hmmm...
I think I may change my diff fluids at about 15k just for fun and because I don't want any surprises. I wonder if diff drain plugs are magnetic like some AT drain plugs(to catch metal shavings) Personally, I would take it elsewhere to get the job done, preferably someone who you can trust, because those are outrageous prices that they are charging you. For the air filter, just geta K&N E-1009 =o) its about $60 and is washable and has a 1million mile warranty. I am pretty sure that the filters get pretty dirty as I have already cleaned mine once and had to change the factory filter @ 3k mi, but then again, I've been going down the roads less taken =o) @9400 miles, not too bad, I suppose... I'll let you guys know how my trans cooler install goes, just need a few parts and my digi camera back..... I'll try to get some good data for actual temp differences too...

stever

Tell your buddy to mention the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and "tie-in" sales to his Acura dealer next time :-)



Steve

Host

SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

tblazed

Looks like you have made your taillights baseball bat-proof anyway! How do those mount? What are they made of?

tblazed

I could have sworn I heard yesterday on the news media several times something about Mercedes having to extend warranties because they stated oil change intervals of 20,000 miles and are having engine failures, but failed to mention in their manual that to go that long a special Mercedes oil had to be used. Maybe the Magnuson-Moss Act kept the use of Mercedes-only oil out of the manual? Have searched all over the place for the story. (ASTN, Yahoo news etc) I just wanted to know the type of oil they sell. Might want to get some for my TrailBlazer if it's THAT good!

tlauro

tblazed....the rear tail light gaurds are pretty heavy steel and as all the items, powder coated in satin finish black. They mount to the two screws visible once the hatch is up. Just pop them out and mount the guards in place. There is a small adhesive hinged brace that mounts to the outside lens on the side. Not noticable at all and does the trick at firming them up. I'm not sure I love the look, but it will all really come together once the side tubes are in place.

It took about 3hrs for the front and back. The front had some alignment and machining issues witht the the brackets under the front that set us back about 1hr. No big deal and since every truck is just slightly different, I expect it's a common thing.

Unfortunately WAAG sent me the wrong brackets to mount the side tubes. The tubes are correct and look to be good, but the brackets don't match up at all. I'll have to get with them on Tuesday and perhaps by next weekend or so I'll have those on. They are easy. The stock running boards have four mounts. Each mount has a stud in the frame to hang them from thus making installation easy for one person. The other three bolts just screw into the threads that are also part of the frame. The WAAG system only has two brackets needed and they mount pretty easily too....once the correct brackets are in hand that is. I'll be selling the stock running boards once the tubes are in place.

I'm also selling my Hitch Step if anyone would like to contact me at pdqpg@yahoo.com It just doesn't fit "look wise" that is now that I have the rear bumper guard.

Here are some preliminary pics of a dirty LTZ with the items in place. Clean ones to come soon.

http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp/gallery/my_cars

tim

segel10

Still have a squeak going over bumps at low speed (less than 30mph). Found the worst squeak, fender well attachment under the air cleaner that was rubbing the tubing. But, still have a slight one that seems to come from both sides (Left and Right). Any ideas or places that you all have identified as the source of the squeak? I've got an old Ranger pickup that still does not squeak and this new Trailblazer is driving me nuts looking for the source.

medolark

I (and many others on this board) have reported similar squeaks. The solution that worked for me was to simply raise the position of the hood bumpers (at the front corners of the hood) about one turn. Turn them counter-clockwise to raise and do it in small increments until the squeak is gone or you're sure it is coming from somewhere else. I also put a small dab of silicon grease on the bumbers.

caldwell52

I see in your picture that you have what looks like an extended step mounted to the hitch. It really looks good in the picture. Where did you purchase it and how much did it cost?

Thanks,

John