Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

parks34

It's already officially extended to 1/2/03, per website and dealers.

iexplore2000

I am more than thrilled that GM extended this promotion as well. For those of you who have been keeping up with this thread, I am one of those who also decided to jump on the bandwagon to sell my Envoy SLT. I listed it on Autotrader.com with picture and price set at FIRM and have a purchaser already!

We are planning to wrap up everything this Friday at the dealership where I purchased the vehicle and once that's done, I will place my GMS order for my 03 GMC Yukon Denali. Only one problem, I do hope that my ordered vehicle arrives before the promotion concludes? Perhaps GM will extend it again? Personally, I am hoping that they offer 0% for 60 months on the Denali's similar to what they had offered on the Envoy prior to October 31st.

I will keep my fingers crossed!

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

medolark

I have run down to the reserve twice on my Envoy (12/01 build). Both times I had almost exactly 2 gallons remaining.

cmack4

I don't know that I'd say the viscous clutch is wonderful... it takes a lot longer to engage versus an encoder motor and viscous clutches are easier to burn up. The thing that made the old system nice was that it was proactive, which you hinted at. I wish a software hack would come out that would allow the Bravada to dial in a permanent torque split in the new system. The one nice thing about the Bravada's transfer case is that without the lo range gearing, NVG had more room to add extra wet clutch plates. More plates = more range when it comes to torque management, so you have more variables.

tlauro

I love the Viscous System. Back in the days when I was in the business, we always out performed the A4WD systems with the VC Systems every time. Jeep was the only other SUV that competed...with a similar system at the time.

They transfered up to 90% of torque front and back and were transparently smooth. Bravada's back then were also in a 35/65 torque split thus they would not need to kick in so abrubtly. The only downside was you needed to rotate tires more often. I'll gladly take that in trade.

One would be hard pressed to outperform a 1996 Bravada in a 2002 on hazardous roads.

Never ran into issue with burning them up on GM's. Now the 911 Carrera 4's and older Subaru's...well, they were also abused a bit more due in part to their fun factor

"I don't know that I'd say the viscous clutch is wonderful... it takes a lot longer to engage versus an encoder motor and viscous clutches are easier to burn up."

sabalo

I'm going to order an Envoy in the next two days (have to order to get options without sunroof).

Do any of you technical types have the air suspension package and do you recommend paying the extra $325 or so to get it?

Does it improve the ride at all under light load conditions? Or only while towing or with heavy load?

Thanks

lurker01

The ICE Possible is a temperaturte gradiant measurement. I get it on a cold morning a few miles after I leave the garage. The car senses the outside temp falling from about 40deg to the mid 30's are a quick rate and alerts the driver that ice could form soon. It is brief and not an acknoleged message because it is not critical, like the low gas warning. The old Jimmy's used to have an ICE symbol next to the overhead temp reading that would light in these conditions.

As for low gas, I have run it that low twice and I remember filling up with 15.5 gals.

cmack4

tlauro, I think the reason you had so much success with the old viscous style was because it was proactive, not because it was viscous. The electronically engaged systems could be potentially better if they too used a constant torque split that was electronically varied depending on sensor feedback. The stories I heard of Viscous Clutches burning up were mostly in sand or deep mud.

Personally, I've been pretty impressed with the new Smartrak. It gives relatively little to no shutter when it kicks in, and has proven quite capable. I would still rather have the added protection of a proactive torque split to minimize slippage before it occurs rather than faster compensation after the slippage is detected, but the ideal would be both.

ross1962

You're right on about the suspension and steering. I bought one because I still wanted an SUV, but there wasn't much of a choice out there. Most manufacturers are going that way to accommodate the increasing female market that buys SUV's. I figure I can always stiffen it up later. (I know someone at Bilstein and I live about 3 miles from there).
On the subject of the 300M. They're going to rear wheel drive soon and using some MB parts. Should be nice!

twinrotts

Thanks lurker
The gradient measurement explains alot. I could not understand why there was no consistency in outside temps when the message would appear.
I think the manual does indicate that it needed to be addressed by the personalization function.
The message is easy to miss unless you just happen to catch it. If they wanted it to self clear, they should have chimed it as well to draw your attention, else who needs it.
My Passat has a flashing snow flake that predictably illuminates at 39F. It self clears as well, but flashes for a while and seems to get your attention.

beach15

Anyone else noticing the trend here lately of so many parting with their triplets after about a year? Who's going to be next, I wonder?

iexplore2002- Great choice! Larger, sturdier, great looking, and V8-powered!

bravadajon

Beach15,

I concur with your impression. It was the postings on this site as well as my experience that caused me to sell off with my 2002 Bravada after a year.

Smartrak discussion. I now drive a 2003 Subaru Outback AWD. Step on the gas.....it goes straight...no delay...no clunking....no binding when turning as with the Bravada. Plus, the Bravada would make a strange bang sound when tight turns were made, for example in getting into a parking lot space.

mrau

..I have the Envoy with the air suspension. It rides very nice and adjust well on the few times I have trailered. The Envoy ride is great. Haven't drove one without the air suspension, so I can't compare. However, the car/truck reports say the air suspension is a bit better.

Mike

iexplore2000

Although I will miss my Envoy, I do think that the Yukon Denali will be a better choice for me. Everytime I get behind the wheel of my dad's 2002 Denali, I never want to give it back. It just drives like a dream and best of all, I can take a turn like I'm driving a sports car! It virtually has no body roll at all. Hmm.. maybe that has something to do with the Autoride suspension setup? I dunno, but I do know that I can turn the corners with less steering effort and that's a plus in my book. I plan on placing my order this upcoming weekend, however I am stuck with a dilemma? My favorite color is the Garnet Red Metallic, but my father already has that color on his 02? I am heavily considering the Polo Green Metallic, but the Garnet Red is still my #1 favorite. I would just hate to have "twin" Denali's if you know what I mean, but IMOP, the Garnet Red looks the best! Oh well.. I only have a few more days to decide.

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

gizmo84

I just bought an x5 3.0 and it rides better than any other car I tested. Bmw is also currently offering 2.9% fin. rate on all 02's. fyi

ross1962

"I just bought an x5 3.0 and it rides better than any other car I tested."
Well, for $70K, it'd BETTER ride better than anything you've driven!

johntr

"The message is easy to miss unless you just happen to catch it. If they wanted it to self clear, they should have chimed it as well to draw your attention, else who needs it."

I agree, a little chime would help. One thing I do is keep the DCI clear, no odometer, trip, or mpg unless I want to see it. That way when it pops up, I tend to notice it more. There are probably arguments about messing with the controls while driving, however, I've learned the feel and know the button presses to not be a distractant, imho.

John

funits

Now that winter has come to the NE and the roads are covered with salt/sand, I need to adjust the front windshield washer jets to spray a little lower than they do now. I have searched the manual, but I have been unable to find any mention/instruction of how to do this. I could experiment, but I thought it would be helpful to hear from someone who has done it first hand.

Thanks.

anonymous02

Go for the red. So what if your driveway looks like the fire department when dad comes to visit.

As far as the windshield sprayer jets, I use one of those twist ties from a bread bag with the paper pushed back. The wire is just the right size to fit in there, and it will grab the nozzle and you can point it up, down, or wherever it needs to be. Remember on the highway it will do one of two things. It will either spray right over, or will spray low.

tblazed

"Parting with their triplets"?? Not me! Great vehicle so far. Tune in in about 10 or 12 years and ask me how mine's doing. I buy outright and keep for the long haul.

Owned 10 months and back to the dealer only one time for the fuel filter clip recall. 30 min fix. Keep it simple, (i.e., minimum gizmos and gadgets) and you eliminate an equal number of potential problems.

"bmw x5 rides better" I am curious in which way does it ride better. I am sure it is quite different, but better? One improvement I can think of might me tightness in corners or body roll. The TB could stand some improvement there; lower it about an inch and stiffen up the stabilizer bar bushings would help a LOT, but then the off-roaders would complain. On the road however, my TB is as smooth and quiet as any sedan I have been in.

For the price of ONE BMW x5 3.0 at about $40-42K I could almost buy two TrailBlazer LS's like the one I have. But then again a fully optioned out TB LTZ can run nearly $40K list. I think the lower end LS model TrailBlazers are certainly well worth the $$$ but a $40K fully loaded one, yes there might very well be better choices in that price range.

previousamigo

Go check out Autoweek.com and the Sema Aftermarket Show in Vegas. There is a section to view Chevy SS vehicles and there is a silver Trailblazer. Look for the painted side mirrors, big rims, no roof racks, blackouts on back lights, and different fog lights on a different front bumper. The only thing I wasn't too excited about the rear air foil(?) above the tailgate. I think it makes the TB look like a minivan. I also wish they had more explanation of what was done inside.... Anyone know if Chevy did this or an aftermarket store???

stever

Sema.org should have some stuff, and there's a separate SEMA page just for the trade show too, but I forgot the url. (We're even covering it, but nothing much up yet - this is the first day though - link).

There's usually some good pics of "real" tricked out minivans :-)

Steve, Host

anonymous02

"big rims, ...blackouts on back lights, and different fog lights on a different front bumper."

You ARE kidding, right?

Next, we'll have spoked wheels sticking out, or blue light specials, or the colored washer squirters.

previousamigo

ANOnYmous2,
Nope, I'm not kidding. Did ya even look at it? Do you really think the 16 inch rims on the TB look nice? I never said I liked the black outs on the back lights or anything else. I just said check it out! Gee whiz, don't bang your head over this, life is too short.

It would be scary if we lived in a society without any choice. BTW, I have a lowly stripped down '02 LS TB that I use in a snowy state, to pull a boat, and occasionally cruise down on the sand (legally) of a local lake. To make your head feel better, I've only added original fogs for saftey and mud flaps for all the rock chips. And I'm not kidding when I say that is about all I'll add (I'm cheap and I've had too many problems with the few gadgets it has).

p.s. Let me know if you know how to plug the holes of the roof racks that I'll never use and have a wonderful day!

ross1962

It's the "Suburban Pimp" look.

tblazed

Sure wish you guys would put a link to this stuff while you're typing, so I don't have to go diggin' to find out what the heck you are talking about...!

beach15

I second the thought! I never want to get out from the wheel of my mother's 02' Avalanche Z66! Love the V8 grunt, "air-like" ride, tons of room, and pretty sweet handling. We actually were considering either an Envoy SLE 2wd or a Trailblazer LT 2wd back in the beginning of this year to replace our 300M, but the Av's size, coolness, and awesome drive won over.

When do the new buyers pick up your Envoy? How much did you get out of it, versus what you paid new?

iexplore2000

Well.. not quite the deal.. I prefer to not discuss the deal until after this Friday if you know what I mean.. Ha, ha.. I swear I don't want to jinx myself! At this rate, the week has already gotten off to a bad start so I had better be careful, but lets just say that I am NOT losing one dime out of the deal! Brand new, mine stickered for $38,420 (w/ DVD and Mag. Red Metallic paint) but I get the GM Employee discount of course so that helps tremendously.

Thus far, I have to transport it about 300 miles this Friday in order to wrap up the deal so just to be on the safe side, it's been sitting very cozily in my garage here in Michigan. I've been using my other vehicle to get around just in case. At this rate, a tree might fall on it or something if I move it out of the garage.

Also, another interesting bit of information. I talked to the dealership that will handle the deal for the new purchaser and order my Denali. I was informed by my salesman (and good buddy) that they move Denali's quickly, but they actually had a Polo Green Metallic Denali sit on their lot for 4 months! He says that the white & black Denali's move quickly, followed by the Garnet, Pewter and that new Carbon Metallic color. Well.. that kind of put things in perspective for me and I honestly think that I will more than likely order a Garnet Denali, just in case I should need to trade/sell it in the future.

Wish me luck...

IExplore2000@aol.com

stever

SEMA

SEMA show.com

Edmunds's SEMA coverage

Steve, Host

tjcishere1

i have a 5/02 build Envoy XL SLT loaded with DVD and the air suspension the truck rides wonderful weather im towing my boat or not in fact i have driven same truck before ordering with and with out the air suspension i think the air makes for a very soft ride. in fact a buddy of mine has an Envoy XL SLE and we both feel the difference ... ooh by the way the DVD system is a great choice i enjoy it my self while i sit in the back with the kids and have the wife drive

tblazer503

I am no longer a Triplet owner. Had to take the deal that Honda offered me. I plan to buy a home soon, and quite frankly, the problems that others have had pushed against my little quirks, and the cost of the truck was too much for me. I believe that the Triplets have much potential, but right now, not the best for me... the Honda Accord is saving me $200/mo counting payments and gas, so I wish all you other owners well....

I think I posted before, but just incase I didn't...

kgbkahnk

I think you'll find that your new Honda will save you a lot more than just $200/mo over the life of the vehicle.

I own a '02 TB with approx. 5000 miles, and a '92 Honda Accord EX that just turned 192,000 miles yesterday morning (and my wife's '95 Acura Legend w/ approx 110k).

My Accord has original *everything*, including original clutch, and still gets better than 31 mpg if I keep my foot out of it. For me, cost of ownership has consisted of gas, oil changes (every 3000 miles) tires and insurance. It's still tight and rattle-free, although it is beginning to show a little cancer behind the rear wheels, thanks to the Kansas DOT and their damn brine (read: SALT) solution used to treat the Kansas city hwys.

I love and purchased my Trailblazer for a lot of reasons, but long-term dependability was not at the top of the list. If the plan is to drive a vehicle past 100k miles, you'll be hard-pressed to find a better choice than an Accord. That's why, when I unload the Legend and the '92 Accord in the spring, I'll almost certainly be replacing them with '03 Accord (after test-driving the Passat and Altima, of course).

good luck with the Honda.

tblazed

I will make a few of exceptions: 1) Unless somebody plows into it and gets wrecked 2) GM makes a V8 available across the board on all TrailBlazers or 3) GM actually produces an "SS" version or maybe a TrailBlazer "Extreme" with V8 and suspension mods. THEN we might be talkin' getting me out of my '02 LS sooner than 10 years.

anonymous02

"i have a 5/02 build Envoy XL SLT loaded with DVD and the air suspension the truck rides wonderful weather"

Yeah, but how does it ride in not so wonderful weather?

xntrick

Gang, thanks once again for your postings and advice but here's a new one. Yesterday driving into a strong headwind with the music off, I hear a strong whistle from the font. I do not have the roofrack cross members. I notice that it fluctuates as I apply the gas: apply that gas and I hear it but take my foot off and it stops. I do the OnStar diagnostics but nothing. I call the dealership and they say bring it in. Drove it this morning and same thing, whistle when I apply the gas but stops when I take my foot off. Thoughts?? I don't think it is the mirrors because this has a build date of 5/02 and I've not noticed it before. Thanks.

tblazed

You can absolutely verify if it's the mirrors or not by folding the mirrors in and driving it. If it still whistles it is not the mirrors. I know that from experience.

ross1962

"I think you'll find that your new Honda will save you a lot more than just $200/mo over the life of the vehicle"

Yeah, you can save even more money by driving a moped, but that's not really the point of owning an SUV, is it?

kgbkahnk

"Yeah, you can save even more money by driving a moped, but that's not really the point of owning an SUV, is it? "

ross1962, I believe you missed my point. I own an SUV exactly for that reason to which you refer. I was addressing "cost of ownership", and the fact that my Honda with nearly 200k miles on it has zero (0) days out of service. Sadly, I'm unable to say the same for my TB with 5,000 miles. What do you think the cost of ownership will be on the TB when it's no longer under warranty and the repair $$$ and out-of-service time both come directly from my wallet?

And now that I've bragged on the dependabily of my Honda *twice* in this forum, I'm sure it'll puke on me on my commute home, just to serve me right.

scottc454

If I traded in my Trailblazer for a sensible family sedan, I sure wouldn't go around bragging about it.

anonymous02

scottc454, sounds like you need to go visit "I don't like SUV's, why do you?" forum!

Giggle giggle.

tidester

Everyone is welcome to participate in the I don't like SUVs, why do you? discussion! Besides, anon02 needs some help! ;-)

tidester, host

anonymous02

I just wanted to share the joy!

tblazer503

I'm not bragging about it, just stating it, the TB was just costing too much(even std. maint)

I am excited about my new car, though(who doesn't get excited?) Esp. about the deal I got. There is nothing wrong with that. As for a sensible family sedan? Yup, I would go with that, but its actually more sensible on my wallet with the home purchase going down w/in 6 mos. We all make our own decisions, and we all have to live with them.

These are one of my decisions... Besides, at the rate of depreciation, I should be able to get one in about 5 years for a reasonable amount, and have my sensible family sedan paid off. =o)

If anyone is interested the going trade value of my 4x4 TB in Portland, OR was approx. 18,0-19,0 w/ 11k miles on it. Got a high bidder at 21,0. Naturally there were probably some lowballers, but I spoke to the dealer, and they put it out, and got about 10 offers in the 18,0-19,0 range... Got a few in the 20,0's and only one at 21,0 after a week on the wholesale side.

dankirk

I love my 2002 Trailblazer LS. I've had it a year, and put on 18K miles. Just started having an unusual problem: on occasion, when I start the truck, the ABS light and the BRAKE light will illuminate and stay on after the other lights go out. When this happens, the interior fan will not blow on any setting. This problem goes away after a few re-starts. I haven't taken it to the dealer yet, but I am wondering if anyone has seen this problem yet?

dragonhead08

I had the same problem as well as a few others here. Turned out it was the ignition switch. Take it back to the dealer.

pcarvalho

Hello All: I think we've almost got all this quirky nonsense on our 2002 Bravada straightened out. We had the Wandering Mirrors, Luggage rack mounting point trouble, The Computer Update, HVAC Reprogram, new Heat Vent, License plate Gasket, and the Air Suspension Muffler...

Thank goodness for AllData.Com. I printed everything, physically gave it to the service guy. Before that, they thought greasing the mirrors would fix it.... Ugh...

This weekend, the trans or the transfer case started slipping badly.

It's sitting at the dealer now, and they can't seem to make it happen. Go figure.

Anyone else have this problem or have any luck getting it fixed?

My Wife LOVES the truck, and I feel like I'm in the home stretch...

nuyorkah

All The Triplets 2002-2003

Condition:
Some customers may comment that when turning , the vehicle feels like it is binding, or the vehicle feels like its stuck int 4WD (crow hop),
or that the 4WD system is not working correctly. A shudder type sensastion is felt.

Only the sensor is to be replaced not the complete Encoder Motor. Also the TCCM is to be reprogramed.

Sensor Part# 88996635
Along with Gasket Part# 88996636

wannatb

I have been driving a 4x4 with a limited slip and I tow a 3500 lbs boat quite often. I have never had any real problems to get the boat out of the water and up the ramp. I usually do this in the low 4x4. Is this over kill? I have on occasion heard a tire briefly spin or slip, but never really get loose.

My question is this, should I get a 4x4 TB with the 4.10 rear end and autotrac or is a 2wd with Traction Assist or a standard 2wd without Traction Assist going to be ok.

I really don't want to drop this kind of cash and end up being the fool on the boat ramp. Please let me know what your experiences have been.

triumphbobk

Great catch! I went through four visits to fix this problem. They reprogrammed it once, replaced the encoder motor once, and then finally gave it "the fix" They said it was a redesigned encoder motor, but it sounded more like a bad sensor. Thanks for the post.

johntr

I think the 4Lo might be overkill on the boat ramp. I have a TB LT with the 3.42 ratio (I think). It's rating is about 5000 lbs per owners manual. I tow a 19' boat to the shore which is about 110 miles one way. I seldom use the 4Hi on ramp, except at low tide where there may be grass/weed all over. I never have used the 4Lo except for surf fishing, which I think may still be a little overkill - but I wanted to try it. The sand is deep & soft, but I've tried 4Hi & 4Lo on separate occasions - both settings performed superbly (imho).

With my differential, I get about 18.5 mpg overall (DIC reading). I drive the vehicle daily for my commute to work which is 50/50 rural/highway driving, 60 miles round trip. I drove it to the shore almost every weekend during the summer & will be driving to the Poconos on weekends in the fall & winter. I don't tow every weekend as the boat is moored during the summer.

I'm very happy with my TB & would buy again, especially at 0% offers. I've had the truck for just over 1.5 years and have put 31k miles on it.

Hope this helps...
John