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Comments
Paul P
I have experienced the aftermarket versus OEM auto glass issue a couple of times over the past ten years. My insurer, USAA has supported going OEM when the non-OEM glass proved unacceptable to me. My first such problem showed up on something as simple as a 1991 Geo Metro rear vent window. Seems that glass had a particularly complicated curve to it. After 2 after-market replacements wouldn't open-close and fit properly, I got the OEM glass and the problems were gone.
I'd grade it a B+. Not an "A" because the AWD "kicking-in" takes a little getting used to after driving a shift into 4WD S-10 Blazer for 11 years. Braking, tires, and steering response were great. Amazingly the ride was still quiet and smooth. After engagement, the AWD worked flawlessly.
Defrosting front and rear worked well; however, this storm started with warm wet snow, then the temperature dropped to 20 degrees F and wiper blade icing was a problem. Though I doubt that any system could have compensated for that problem.
Heating and fan worked well and the heated seat sure felt good. Nothing failed. Everything was up to my expectations. Overall a much more competent and reassuring ride than my old S-10 Blazer, in conditions which left hundreds of vehicles stranded or wrecked around the metro area.
Trailblazer only got 3 stars on the frontal impact. I find it amazing that a vehicle of this price can't get at least 4 stars, particularly since the manufacturers know the tests/criteria used to get the ratings. Reminds of my chemistry class back in high school. Everyone had a copy of the test prior to the test and almost everyone got an A. My wife's jeep liberty feels more solid, has better steering wheel controls, is of a higher build quality and has better crash test ratings than my trailblazer. All for $7,000 less. To bad I am 6' 2" tall.
I had to have the windshield replaced in my Bravada last month. Used an online replacement company who then had someone come to my office. Used a PPG replacement that looks and acts just like the original. (Since, essentially it is.) All for under $350.00.
It doesn't really matter who manufactures the glass, some are made perfect, others aren't. Case in point - At the dealer (on one of my MANY trips) there was an Envoy sitting on the lot with a huge stress crack in the windshield. Any piece of glass, made by any company, is subject to being "a little off" and not working properly.
Still very happy with the ride quality and the engine is unbelievable.
Saw in the latest Canadian Carguide that Envoy won reader's choice best SUV for 2002. I certainly concur with the vote!
There were two HVAC software updates since Jan. 02 and I have had them done. The second one just today.
Based on what the dealer is telling me, I'm not confident the issue has been resolved. I don't know yet if it's working but the heating system in my LTZ has never worked near as good as other Auto Systems I've been in.
Updates coming soon. Next thing is going to be to replace the head unit or more sensor replacements. Not sure.
tim
Also with it getting colder, when the engine idle slows down after the engine warms up, it seems to drop too low (down to about 300 RPM's) with a lot of vibration and then returns to normal (600 RPM). Any input is appreciated.
BTW, this is an Envoy.
JAW
While I do have complaints about the blazer, I do think there is a lot of potential in this vehicle. I like its size, power, tight turning radius, etc. I don't like the soft suspension, loose steering, crappy speakers and the poor stereo steering wheel controls. If GM would fix these few easy to fix issues, they wouldn't have a lot of competition. Maybe my expectation are too high for a vehicle that retails for $36,000.
From the drivers seat, If i looked to the far right of the windshield (near the pillar), i noticed that there was some...wavyness on the glass. Meaning, If i were to look at a straigh pole (or anything else straight)
You can see it ..sort of shift a little... like looking at objects through a clear coke bottle and such.
This works the same way when sitting on the front passenger side and looking at the driver sides glass near the pillar.
I went back to the dealer, looked at another TB and saw the same thing. Went to a GMC dealer and saw the same thing....
Anyone else notice this issue? I called Chevy and they said they haven't heard of it being an issue. Though all the sales people and the service tech's agree its there, they say they can't do anything..
Its making a little hard looking in that direction and i definitely think its a safety hazard...
Any thoughts?
http://www.smithsport.com/flash/techinfo_sunglasses.htm
If that's your problem, good luck in fixing it :-)
They did this back in January and it worked, but for some reason the system reverted back to a no heat until 87 degrees again over the course of the summer.
Who knows....I've only about 15 more months on the lease and will probably be out sooner.
Love the truck and would seriously look at buying it for the right price if there weren't so many unknown little things like this.
Service has been top notch still. I've always been given a very nice car to drive and they even rotated the tires and replaced the tail gate pull down strap again. That will surely break next summer due to the heat I'm sure.
Otherwise, all is going as normal.
tim
1. Recall to replace both front lower control arms
2. Replace right taillight due to leakage problem
3. Adjusted right-rear door latch
4. Headliner - removed and found loose vehicle harness - installed foam around harness to prevent rattle
5. Fixed outer windshield trim on top of glass
6. Reprogrammed Powertrain Control Module (P.C.M.) per recall
7. SERVICE ENGINE SOON fix - replace oxygen sensor #1
8. SERVICE 4WD fix - replace 4WD selector switch
9. Repaired wire in ckt #1296 and rerouted to eliminate SERVICE 4WD, ABS Lamp, Parking Lamp fix when IGN on
10. Replaced IGN switch to eliminate SERVICE 4WD, ABS Lamp, Parking Lamp fix, no A/C or blower when IGN on
11. Reprogrammed Powertrain Control Module (P.C.M.) to solve incorrect gauge display issue
12. Installed radio (remanufactured) to solve automatic turn-off problem and incorrect radio station display
13. Replaced warping tailgate weatherstrip
I own this truck and I do plan to keep it as I planned on the day I bought it, although I hope to never report any additional major problems. The ownership of this vehicle has put me through a ride on an emotional rollercoaster. It's a great truck when it's been trouble-free, but when a problem develops, well, I'm sure many of you have had the experience. The truck has a lot of great features such as the Autotrac 4WD that is much appreciated during the winter months in Michigan.
Best regards, blrmkr
It was in fact the worst performer in the slalom test edmunds conducted for 2001 Mini Ute Roundup as noted here:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/47012/page017.html
beating out the much larger and heavier TB in the same test (2002 mid-size SUV roundup) by only 3.1mph.
Now look at the other categories... Braking... The TB weighs about 800lbs more and brakes better(133ft 60-0 vs 131ft 60-0)... figure that one out!
The TB also wins by 2 full seconds in 0-60, and gets the same if not better gas mileage!
Don't get me wrong, the liberty isn't at all a bad vehicle... especially for the price! It just doesn't have the performance, space, or luxury of the triplets. I also don't think DC hit the target with it's design. The liberty continues the cherokee's legacy as a no frills off-roader, however, it doesn't look very masculine... and I guess that explains why it's doing so well amongst the female population.
I haven't decided to take it in for this yet, maybe when it stalls on me. Or when there's another recall.
And isn't that what it's all (mostly) about?
"It was in fact the worst performer in the slalom..."
I'll keep that in mind when I race in a slalom. LOL!
"... the performance, space, or luxury of the triplets"
I don't think "performance", space, or luxury really help get you off the mountain, though, do they? In fact, those all might be considered hindrances in that application (though better braking would be nice!).
No it isn't.
Why don't you go and get yourself an old POSSUV and hang out with Paisan?
Huh? Hardly... Where I live all the roads are paved. If I go off road, it's by mistake. I bought my Envoy to tow my boat and get me through Chicago winters.
"Albrecht’s speed in the rear-drive 3.7-liter Jeep Liberty Sport was around 40 mph, comparable to the best-handling compact SUVs tested previously."
While for the most part I do like my blazer and prefer driving it over the liberty, I feel the liberty is still of a higher build quality and more attention was spent on the details and layout of the controlls. (with the exception of the center console mounted window controls). As I stated before, the blazer has a lot of potential, the question is whether or not gm will take advantage of it and refine it.
Personally, I can't say I'd want to take a brand new vehicle on a serious offroading trip anyway, since it's bound to get scratches, dings, etc.
It's also too hard to find a daily driver that excels in both on and off road performance! In fact, I've never come across a vehicle that fit the bill well and was too my liking.
"And isn't that what it's all (mostly) about?"
Well, no, it isn't. With the triplets, GM finally figured out why Ford had been beating their SUV-butt for ten years. The true off-road market segment is very small, but the segment that wants an all-weather, reliable vehicle to replace their mini-vans and pickup trucks is huge. My '91 S-10 Blazer has been off-road (county roads don't count), inadvertently, once in 130,000 miles. Most other SUV owners I know say the same or have never been off-road.
The slalom course testing and avoidance maneuver testing are simply benchmarks for handling agility. Unfortunately, the Liberty wasn't very agile in the Edmonds test, nor was it in Consumer Reports avoidance maneuver test. In the latter, the Libery finished 4th out of 5 in its class. Beating out only the lowly Honda CR-V, and scoring only average on routine and emergency handling.
As to getting one "off the mountain", there a a few mountains here in Colorado and I usually get down the same way I get up, hiking.
I bought an '03 Bravada to get me back and forth to the ski areas in any kind of weather; however, those are all paved roads. I also bought it to haul stuff from Home Depot and the garden stores, and finally to haul my wife, 2 dogs, and all our camping gear to vacations in Glacier National Park.
I spent almost 2 years determining which SUV I would purchase to replace my '91 S-10 Blazer for those uses. Small SUVs weren't in the running due to their size and lack of power.
For me, the Bravada beat out the Mercury Mountaineer on looks alone (I suppose some like that ugly snout). Beat out the Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited on room, and squeezed by the Ford Explorer Limited based on power (I-70 to the Eisenhower Tunnel is a steep drive with a 65 mph speed limit) , gas mileage, and the rather cheap look of the $38K Explorer's interior and dash. I also test drove the Bravada, a Toyota Highlander, and a Dodgo Durango on a slalom course over a year ago. The Bravada was competent and sure feeling. The Highlander was okay. The Durango was about like my old S-10 Blazer.
So you not only have to compare "apples-to-apples", you also need to look at what the vehicle's primary uses will be. The Liberty may be a choice off-road vehicle for someone looking primarily for that capability. But, I think one can do much better than the Liberty, performance and safety-wise, for on-road driving.
Regarding your original issues with your Trailblazer, steering, stereo, and steering wheel controls, I have a few comments.
First, my '03 Bravada's steering isn't "loose". If yours is properly adjusted, it is merely under-damped at high speed, and it suffers a common problem of good rack and pinion steering gear. It doesn't know where its center is. I suspect the under-damping at speed is because of the extreme power assist at stand-still that GM provided for the 5'-2", 110# females that they are trying to entice into buying their SUVs. The lowered step-in height of the triplets was specifically aimed at that female market segment.
The lack of a center point in the rack and pinion steering makes the vehicle wander at the slightest road irregularity, almost like an alignment problem, but w/o a favored direction. My '85 Nissan 300ZX Turbo has the same problem. A couple of years after the '85, Nissan actually cut a center niche into the rack to give straight line driving a more steady feel.
I'm not an audiophile and my hearing, at least in one ear, isn't what it should be, but I'm thrilled with the sound of the Bose system in my Bravada. No, it isn't as dynamic as the 11 speaker Infinity system in my wife's Chrysler 300M. But, hey, this is a truck and the Bravada's Bose system sounds better than what I've heard in other trucks and a lot of cars.
As to the controls on the steering wheel, if they had any more they have to add a qualification test before they could let you drive the darn thing. Personally I think the number of buttons and functions on the steering wheel is excessive. Three times what we have on our 300M, the flagship sports sedan of DC. But, they are trying to sell these things to over 100 million people, so they configure them in the manner that their market research tells them will please the most people and really PO the fewest.
Lighten up!
1. Recall to replace both front lower control arms
2. Replace third brakelight assembly
3. Adjusted both rear doors-clunking
4. Outer windshield trim replaced
6. Reprogrammed Powertrain Module
7. Replaced tailgate weatherstrip
8. Replaced gas tank and filler tube
9. Reprogram climate control system
For those looking at getting one of these trucks, keep looking! The build quality sucks!! I have had the dealer look at a problem everytime I bring it for an oil change. I have numerous small problems not listed above that they kinf find fixes and I am living with.
Don't get me wrong, it runs great and has lots of power but there are better vehicles out there.
It does seem that most of the people who have long lists of issues have one of the first trucks built in 01. Which is one reason why I waited a year to get mine.
Regarding the steering, it is way to slow for my tastes. The steering ratio needs to be quickened so you don't have to crank and crank to get the thing to turn. GM probably did this on purpose, to make the vehicle more stable during hi speed emergency manuvers.
The other thing that bothers me is the cruise control. Why isn't it on the steering wheel like almost every other manufacturer, including the lowly Saturn rental I had? I would gladly exchange the odmeter or driver setting controls for cruise!
GAM
I will now revert to being a fly on the wall.. wish me luck w/ my new import!
I was saying the Liberty isn't trying to be a grown up minivan with 4 wheel drive aspirations. It has a purpose, and that is to haul some people and gear whether on or off road. I think that the trips are not trying to do this, and are basically a hopped up minivan with 4wd. It seems that is what you are describing your uses for them as, and you are saying that GM markets them that way also (not that there's anything wrong with that).
You guys should go check out the board "I don't like SUV's, why do you" and see what kind of eye opening you'll get. LOL!
I like the Trialblazer, and think it could have some potential. I am not sure, but the styling is close, but not quite there for me, but it is growing on me. The quality seems to be lacking from what I've read on here, and other experience with GM vehicles.
I am reading this board, and keeping an eye on things to see how the vehicle develops and progresses for future buying decisions.
I don't understand why you think the Liberty is so great offroad. I hear it caused some tension within Jeep because some felt it was too poor offroad to be a Jeep. I'm not saying it's worse than my Trailblazer, just nothing spectacular.
I've been disappointed with the quality of the triplets, but I half expected it with a new GM product. I think they'll tighten down the quality as time goes on. Anyway, Jeep does not have a very good repuation on build quality either.
My reasons for not buying a Liberty:
1) The GM I-6 schools that V-6 in the Liberty in all aspects.
2) The Liberty is too cute looking.
3) The Trailblazer has more cargo room (just about the right amount without being too big)
4) In spite of being lighter and less powerful, the Liberty still gets equal or worse gas mileage.
That said, the Liberty is an excellent value. However, the fact remains that it indeed will be used as a van my the vast majority, just like every other SUV. And you can bet Jeep knows this.
No need, I was one of those people. I hated SUV's. I still hate most of them. I don't understand why you'd want to deal with poor handling, gas mileage, and performance if you didn't need the features an SUV provides.
Anyway, my Impreza RS wasn't cutting it in the cargo room department and I caved in a test drove a Trailblazer. I really wanted an Outback or some kind of crossover vehicle. I also liked the MDX.
Then I heard of the Trailblazer and liked the syling and engine. So there, I've gone from SUV hater to owner.
I still cut people down for driving luxo-utes and wanting SUV's soley for the commanding view of traffic they provide, but hey, it's a free country.
As for the location of the cruise control, suits me just fine as it is where it has been on many GM vehicles for over a dozen years. Work with it. You'll find it easier to deal with in the dark than steering wheel buttons.
Same with the suspension, it's too soft. Things could be a little crisper and more responsive, still remaining with a smooth ride. They just went a little to far to the "floaty" side, and gave a creamy ride, but less than spectacular handling feel.
Also have experience with the 300M. We used to have a 2000 M w/o PHP for 1.5 years and 18k miles, but one thing led to another (read: problems and crappy dealer), so we got a new Avalanche. Terrific vehicle and so much more silent and refined on the road than the "luxury sport sedan" ever was.
I'm also a fan of the Bravada's looks, there's a new 2003 Bravada AWD in black with chrome wheels and gold emblems at a dealer near us. Looks quite spiffy, indeed.
Not mine. It's the best built vehicle I've owned, and I've owned several, domestics and imports. I would strongly recommend buying one.
Sorry about your problems, but you're not in the majority.
Trailblazers and Envoys got great marks off-road in several magazine reviews this year (I doubt the Bravada would though). What is really amazing though, is that the triplets are bigger, faster, and get better mileage than the Liberty. Jeep really blew it in that department IMHO.
GAM
I've noticed that some magazines claim that the Bravada isn't as off road oriented. I do wish that it had the low gear setting as it can come in handy.
However, the Bravada has the same tough frame, comes standard with the Eaton Locking Differential, and when it comes to towing also has the self leveling suspension standard. I just wish it had the front tow hooks.
I love AWD, because it's always available. You never know when you'll need it.
--
Doug
Is this normal? Is it negotiable? Do I have to pay it?
I'm assuming I will pay invoice price or about $200 above or below. Over $600 in additional advertising fee seems high. I live in Mid-Atlantic area. I have to order to get a vehicle with desired options.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Power is merely transfered to the front as in the other triplets once wheel spin is detected.
"I love AWD, because it's always available. You never know when you'll need it."
Since it has gotten colder, I get an intermittent message "Ice Possible" First time I noticed this the outside temp was 37. I have seen at at several other temps between 33 and 40 but it does not seem to be consistent. It also comes across the screen and goes away in about 3 to 5 seconds. The manual says that the message should stay until acknowledged. Anyone else notice this? Also, what temp is it supposed to come on at??
Also does anyone know what the gas tank reserve capacitly is on the TB EXT? I have never run down to the low fuel warning but want to know what it is. They left this out of the manual
(source: WSJ 10/31)
Steve, Host