Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    GSX - I never commented on the good or bad of owning a new vehicle. I never commented on the value of comfort items. Instead of trying to generalize my statement, why not just take it for what it was meant? I am a CPA with my own company and so I do not PURCHASE vehicles as I do not invest in depreciating assets. I lease my vehicles so that I am only paying for the portion that I use. I do have a fully loaded Bravada. I did not waste any money on these things because these are "comfort items" meant for me and me only.

    Previous Amigo - I too am a CPA and I'm glad to hear you are taking care of your future.

    My whole point was and is a very general statement about a very SPECIFIC thing. That specific thing is purchasing "stuff" for a vehcile for the comfort and/or pleasure of the owner vs. purchasing "stuff" for a vehicle for the benefit of impressing others. No one, other than my passengers, see and know what options I have on my vehicle and I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of it.

    I guess I'm just really sick of seeing folks feed their insecurities by "tricking" out their vehicles. I know that one's vehicle is very much related to the person they are and that is what scares me. I live in a market where you go into the worst parts of town and the most expensive vehicles with the most expensive wheels and lighting and grill work, etc. Meanwhile I'm paying for their children to go to school and to eat and subsidizing their electric and gas bill.

    I just wonder how many people could do better for their families and themselves if there were no such things as "car accessories" and the implication of one's "wealth" being translated into what car they drive and how "tricked out" it is.

    Just a thought.

    I too am very glad that we live in a country where everyone is free to do what they like with their money and their personal items.

    The only law I'd like to see is one that addresses the problem of people driving with their seat in the full recline position. I guess they would rather spend the money on huge brush guards so that when they wreck because they can't see out the windshield they will be protected.

    Sorry for the ravings. I was not and am not judging anyone. Just bringing what I feel is a bit of reason to the conversation.

    Who said accountants are boring?
  • jbhornerjbhorner Member Posts: 3
    Not a good start for a $40,000 vehicle. This is my third day of ownership. The vehicle has 170 miles on the odometer.

    While on the way to work this morning, the Service Engine Soon (or whatever it says) light came on. It so happened that I was already talking to the folks at OnStar about the Virtual Adviser being down for the second morning in a row. So, I asked them to run diagnostics. (Which I admit is pretty cool.)

    The representative came back on the line and told me that the diagnostics indicate that the vehicle was reporting, "a fuel delivery, speed sensing error." She also stated that they, "recommend that the vehicle be taken back to the dealer within seven days."

    I have to say that this sets a very negative tone with me. I've owned several vehicles over the past five years, and I've never had something happen so soon.

    Now I get the joy of moving my life around a vehicle problem. Fun stuff.

    Anyone know what this error means?
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Well I suppose if you trade every few years, and are happy with a never ending car payment leasing is for you. All cars depreciate. Leasing companies are in business to make a profit. Personally I buy outright, and keep my vehicles an average of 9 to 11 years. Not having any debt or lease payments against a car for all those years is nice. I sack away enough $$$ doing that to be able to pay cash for a new vehicle when the time comes on a technicians wages. A friend that leased a '98 Expedition who is now faced with a buyout that is more than the retail used price, by almost $7,000, turning it back in to the leasing company and having nothing to show for 5 years of payments, or refinancing the amount he is upside-down after he has been making lease payments since '98 is an example why leasing ain't for everybody.
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    To me many of those "comfort items" fall in the same catergory as his wheels IMO. Only differnce is he impresses his passengers before they get in the truck, you do it once they are inside. Whats the difference between the two that makes yours more just?

    FWIW I'm a Design Engineer, and make decent money, have (or should i say had) a nice 401k and have a nice home and family that are well taken care of. In reality my car has held its value bettter than my 401k over the last year! I ALSO have a '92 mustang that has lots of mods to it, wheels being one of them. They are not strictly visual as you assume most are, they added a enorous amount of performance enhancement to the car, its hard to hook 300HP to the track on stock wheels and tires. I'm by no means the "insecure person" as you have generalized me as since i have "tricked out" my car. Cars have always been a hobby of mine. I helped my Mom and Dad restore several old hotrods when i was a kid. My car hobbies (along with racing motorcycles) have taught me a lot of skills that have come in handy over the years.

    While i too have also seen the neighborhoods you speak of, getting rid of car accesories has nothing to do with their standard of living. Unfortunately most of that money comes from drugs and stealing and other illegal activity, and those type of people take the system for whatever they can regardless of their weekly take. I know some people who are less fortunate than i am in the financial department and live in areas like you describe, the honest people with real jobs that do not pay well are not the ones with the fancy rims ETC, its the hoodlems that are most of the time. You need to be careful when you start to generalize people into catergories, not everything is as black and white as it seems on the outside.
  • 2002slt2002slt Member Posts: 228
    jbhorner,

    Check your gas cap!
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    My point was why go to the large diameter wheels and "perfomancey" tires on an SUV? Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose?

    I can see getting taller tires for more clearance, but come on people!
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    I'm not going to get wrapped up in word games and defending my statements that were excaggerated and expounded upon.

    I have to agree with you and disagree with you about my options. Yes, not only do I get it for the comfort but I'm also very impressed at the lengths people have gone through to make our lives easier (when they work, of course. But we won't get into that!). Although, and since I hardly ever have new passengers in my cars I think this is true, I'm not trying to impress anyone with the inside or outside of my vehicle. I'm impressed with how good this vehicle looks and how good it feels behind the wheel. If only I was as happy with the vehicle.

    That said, I'll sort of recant my ravings. I can see how it may look like I think I'm better than someone else because I choose to do things diffent. In reality I just don't understand the desire and, unfortunately, that sometimes comes out as "knocking" those who do. For that, I apologize.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    You are correct, Tblazed. Leasing is the perfect choice for some people and the worst choice for some people.

    Leasing is perfect for me. Being from a "dealer family", I grew up driving demo cars. When I moved away from my family, having never OWNED a vehicle and being used to having new vehicles every few thousand miles, I chose leasing as being best for me.

    Keeping a two year lease (that is through my company so therefore never shows up as a liability for me) keeps my personal balance sheet clean while it keeps me in a new car every two years (or three in the case of the Bravada - bad decision).

    Actually, if you look at the raw numbers of how much you pay if you finance a car and sell it in two years or if you lease it comes out pretty close to a wash. The only real factor on whether to lease or to purchase (ONLY if you turn your cars around every two or three years) is whether or not you like the idea of OWNING a vehicle and having the asset and liability on your personal balance sheet or whether you couldn't care less about who owns the vehicle you drive.

    Personally, leasing is almost the ONLY plan that is right for me. I do a lot of real estate investing (personal) and, since I am self employed, my personal balance sheet is heavily scrutinized the 5 or 6 times a year I seek financing. Not having that [heavily depreciated] asset and slowly moving liability on my Balance Sheet has saved me thousands in lower interest rates on my investment properties.

    The only car that I actually OWN is a '99 MB 500SL that I purchased with cash. It's the first car I've ever OWNED and I find I'm very stressed out about everything concerning it. Although I have to say I'm happy with it.
  • bryancosbryancos Member Posts: 282
    I had this happen to me about a month ago... car had sat for four days and the engine would not crank. Battery was dead. Called GM Roadside and they dispatched a flatbed to take me to the dealer in the event it couldn't be jump started. After a couple of attempts it cranked over after being jumped. Dealer couldn't diagnose a cause. They recharged the battery and ran an electrical system test and all check out. Haven't had a repeat incident, but I did fax the service advisor at the dealership a copy of EVERY dead battery post in this forum so he was aware it's a known problem among owners... He stated if it occurs again, he'll replace battery under warranty.
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    "As to the Forrester and Outback, they are really just glorified station wagons. They get good reviews and they have their place, but I don't think your dog will be able to stand up in the back of one. They also are a bit under-powered"

    I hope you're speaking based on experience and not speculation. I, for one, own a Subaru Impreza and have driven the Forester, Legacy Outback and Legacy station wagon. I can agree on one thing only... the 4 cyl. for the Forester is not bad but for the Legacy, yes. It's heavier and if you like quirkiness, then get the H6. Much better HP and TQ.
    And about the space.... it's not an SUV but you're kidding me about the dog not being able to stand right??? Do you by any chance have a Great Dane on steriods...?
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    You need to read the authors of the posts,that was not me that posted those comments on the Subarus you are reffering too, it was someone else giving there take on the Subaru, not me i believe it was anaonymous02? I have never looked at one up close. As for the dog, 100lb German sheperd, takes takes up all of the head room in my ext cab full size chevy truck, i think it would be a real tight fit in the suabaru also?
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    You saw my point, and thats all i was trying to accomplish, thats why i got into the word game with you. I can respect your opinion on what you do with your money, and respect the fact your man enough to apoligize. Now i do think you bought that MB to impress people... J/K!!!!

    Leasing is certainly a no-brainer way to go when you own your own business, most owners i know do the same thing. I always wanted to check out leasing because of the fact i only keep cars 4-5 years and i perpetually have payments, but i can not stay within the mileage constraints. And even if i could I'm not real sure how far ahead i would be or not be?
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    I know what you mean about the mileage thing. I'm actually in the opposite position as when I leased my last cars (the Bravada and an STS - the same week) I lived about 30 miles from my office so I got them with 15k allowances. Less than a year later I bought a home in-town so now I only have an 8 mile commute and am never going to be able to use all of those miles.

    I should have done what I originally was going to do and gotten 12k allowance but purchased the extra miles as at the end of the lease any purchased miles [that you haven't used] get refunded to you.

    Regarding the SL500, I really didn't get it to impress people (at least I don't think so). When I was in CA with my family I always kept an SL from their MB dealership. After I moved to ATL I went without one for about 9 months before I couldn't stand it any more and just bought one. IMHO it is probably the best convertible car ever made. In any case, with the extreme weather here in GA, it only gets out of the garage maybe 40 times a year now so no one gets to see it anyway.

    My mother was aghast when she found out I wanted an STS (because I'm always talking about people with chromed wheels and such) but the only reason I really wanted it was that it was the only way I could get the wood steering wheel (which, although is hardly necessary, I like very much) in the Seville and I wasn't going to splurge enough to get an S class MB.

    Now I'm really in a pickle because I really like the power folding rear seat of the new Expedition to replace my Bravada but my mother only owns GM and MB dealerships for my discount. I'm really tempted though because I hate that you have to schlep that big seat around in the Tahoe.

    I guess I could have worse dilemas.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I think Subarus have plenty of room for a dog, more than one with the back seat down.
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    Think you will need to remove/move the seat in a Tahoe? They have a lot more room than the bravada i thought? Might not be neccesary? I would like a convertible, but he weather here in NY is either cold or blazing hot or rain.... my Mustang saw a whopping 700 miles of use this year, has a huge grand total of 4700 on it now..... One of these days i will get a Z06 Vette, got to pay off my house first though.
  • js237js237 Member Posts: 13
    I didn't know that asking a simple question would start a whole socioeconomic discussion. I just wanted to share information in case someone might of needed it. Now that so many have been so critical of my decision to put wheels on my Envoy, I guess I will cave under such "peer" pressure!! I think we should just share information not criticize. "What's up with that people."

    Love,

    Jeff
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    ...I think (as far as I'm concerned) it's all pretty casual. In any forum people's different personalities come out (even the one's we try to keep hidden) but I don't think we go over the line. In any case, it's not your fault and I'm glad you asked the question.

    Do your own thing dude,

    Michael
  • previousamigopreviousamigo Member Posts: 130
    I liked the discussion. It gave me a good laugh which I especially need now because the mystery squeak in the front suspension is happening again over small bumps in my TB LS. And it ain't the hood stops this time..... Has anyone else had this front suspension squeak fixed that wasn't the hood?
    (get the wheels)
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    Do what makes YOU happy! Thats the beauty of living in America! A little controversy every now and then keeps the forums intersting. I would be pretty board if this place was 100% purely TB talk all the time. Plus a little internet sparring is good to keep the gray matter in the brain functioning. I have no hard feeling towards anyone here. I participate in many forums currently, this one is pretty mellow compared to some of the racing boards I'm on, man do you need a good set of gloves on some of them! Enjoy your envoy with whatever you decide, my search continues, who knows wht i will end up with!

    Can't remember who asked about if i could use GMS pricing on saturns, Yes it can be used on them, however the percentage is Much lower due to no haggle sticker pricing on Saturns. Its only 7.5% off sticker, compared to about 15-16% on GM products.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I spend a lot of time getting harassed at jeepsunlimited.com and here in Edmunds at "I don't like SUV's, why do you?" chat room
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Have you checked for a rt. inner fender push fastener rubber tip touching against one of the trans cooler lines? Look down under the air cleaner housing. A squeak going over even slight irregularities in a parking lot.. that's what mine was doing. Just a possibility.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Member Posts: 702
    My favorite quote comes to mind when reading the last several pages of posts.

    "Where all men think alike, few men think at all."

    (Sorry to be sexist, but the quote is from the 1800's and by a man!)
  • twinrottstwinrotts Member Posts: 161
    Anyone who thinks there is a shortage of space in a Subaru for dogs has obviously never taken a close look at one with the seats down flat.
    Please notice my nickname and recognize that I speak from experience.
    I frequently put my twin rotts, all 240 pounds worth in the back of my 96 Legacy Wagon.
    By the way, did I metion the 65 pound lab mutt alpha male that is the first to jump in
  • ron_mron_m Member Posts: 186
    Just out of curiosity, where does Consumer Reports
    obtain their data? Consumers? Automobile manufacturers? Where? I've never subscribed to
    the publication myself--although I have browsed
    through a couple of issues over the years.

    Ron M.
  • cebtebcebteb Member Posts: 138
    Touchy! Touchy! Boy the Subaru crowd sure is sensitive. I didn't say the Outbacks and Forresters were bad cars, they just aren't good SUVs, at least for what is important to me in an SUV. No, I've never driven one, but I've been driven in several, and I've climbed all over them and most current SUVs at the past 2 Denver auto shows.

    In fact, the Legacy's and Outback's are very popular here in the metro-Denver area. They make great commuter cars for our unpredictable weather and hilly surface streets. Never seen one stranded at the bottom of an icy hill during rush hour.

    However, if you use the utility of your SUV as an enclosed pickup truck like I do, hauling 10 to 12 bags of deco bark for the wife's landscaping in summer. Then you need something larger than a Subaru. I moved up to the size of the triplets from an S-10 Blazer because of my sporting activities, camping and skiing. With the wife, 2 dogs, and all our gear, we required more room for everyone to be comfortable on long rides (up to 1,000 miles one way). The data I saw showed the Forrester with a minimum of 3" less height in the cargo area than any other "compact" sport ute. I couldn't find the numbers on the Outback, but I'm sure it has less height than the Forrester.

    As to power, I have a bias there due to driving in the Rocky Mountain west. Inter-state highways w/ steep grades and 60 to 75 mph speed limits. Not a place for a 4-banger if you want to stay in the left lane and stay w/ the traffic.

    So, Subaru folks, I'm sorry if I offended you. I said the Subarus had their place. But, if you plan to drive up I-70 to ski Colorado this winter, as they say in Consumer Reports, there are better choices.

    Ah yes, Consumer Reports. I'm a subscriber and I bought a triplet anyway. I find their magazine entertaining and quite valuable for information about a whole lot of stuff that costs less than $1K that I don't have the time to research otherwise. As to their automotive evaluations, I use their data as another source in decision making. Their criticisms are based on what is important to them, which isn't usually what is important to me, so we reach different conclusions.

    Regarding where CR gets their data, it depends on which data you mean. They actually buy products, including cars, and test them at their own facilities.

    For the reliability data and auto system breakdown data, it comes from their readers. I get surveys every year to fill out. This is the data that is most questionable. CR won't reveal their sample size when they report reliability data, but, in some cases, it is certainly suspect. I can't prove it, but I believe I single-handedly influenced them to make the Chrysler 300M a "Recommended" car by giving ours a rave review on their survey. Something certainly changed their mind after they ripped it in their road test months earlier.

    Gas mileage. Someone mentioned the oxygenated fuels that some areas have to use in winter affecting gas mileage. Metro-Denver is one of those areas and they started dispensing it about the time I bought my Bravada. Probably having a negative effect like it has on all my other vehicles past and present. Good catch!

    Octane at altitude. The local paper ran a story recently that said that the auto engineers and the oil engineers disagreed about lowered octane at altitude in the newest vehicles. Seems the auto engineers believe that the control systems already compensate for the altitude and the vehicles should use the octane they are rated for, not 2 points lower. Not surprisingly, the gasoline folks say 85 octane a mile high burns like 97 octane at sea level. Of course it costs more to produce 87 versus 85 octane, but we don't get regular unleaded any cheaper than the flat-landers next door in Kansas.
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    First... point understood and taken.

    Second (cebteb)... nobody's touchy... just trying to clear any misunderstandings about the Subaru. Please remember everyone... obviously Subaru is not an SUV... it's more than a car but less then an SUV. So.. you get alittle bit of both without sacrificing alot of $$$ and mileage ;-)
  • pete2002pete2002 Member Posts: 36
    CR performs their own tests and surveys consumers and based on these findings, they render an opinion. They generally survey their subscribers since they have the mailing list. I use their findings for trending data. The data is refreshed every year and this provides a better basis to compare the performance of auto manufacturers in how a product is performing over time rather than taking a snap shot in time. It will be interesting how our model year fairs next year after they re-survey consumers. I have filled a few surveys over the years and they are comprehensive.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    anon02: I spend a lot of time getting harassed at jeepsunlimited.com and here in Edmunds at "I don't like SUV's, why do you?" chat room.

    Oh, that is a major exaggeration! Just because others correct the frequent error of your ways in I don't like SUVs, why do you? does not make it harassment! ;-)

    tidester, host

  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    board and I have to leave quickly or the bull-dog in me comes out. Talk about people who really want the government to rule every aspect of their (and everyone elses) lives!!!! I won't get started. No, no, I won't.
  • envoyownerenvoyowner Member Posts: 42
    While at a stop, my Envoy suddenly made a "clunk" sound (from under the hood) and very slightly surged forward. Also, I have noticed a slight "wheel binding" feel on the front driver's side. Not just when turning; the ride doesn't feel as smooth as it did and the best description I can come up with is the feeling that something is rubbing or binding.

    I had the TSB service for the wheel binding. But from what I remember, that was the rear wheels when turning.

    Does this sound familiar to anyone? I hate to go to the dealer with such vagueness only to be told that they could not duplicate the problem!
    Thanks!
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    Guys, i need enough room for the dog in back with the rear seats UP not down. Kids are not going to want to share the same space as the dog. Thas was why i said earlier i think the rav4 is too small, and most likely the subaru will be too????
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    gsxr1216:
    Your best bet, so that you have some peace of mind, is to take your kids and dog (or a box(es) that represent it's size) and do a test drive. It's the only way you'll know for sure. Who cares if people think you're crazy, it's your investment, not theirs!!!
    Trust me, I know people who have used crates to test sizing ;-)
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    With the 6 cylinder Outbacks getting up I-70 shouldn't be too bad. The problem is, they simply cost too much. I like Subarus but for me to buy something brand new I have to get excited about it. It just wasn't happening with the Outback.

    I'd rather have a car based SUV, but they just haven't perfected the crossover vehicle yet.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    ...And do it in a blizzard. There won't be any sales pressure, and you can see how it performs in the snow!
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    It is something to get excited over.

    It is, however a REAL SUV, not a car looking like an SUV.
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    I do not need the boxes for the sales people to think I'm crazy, they will think that without them................ Thanks!
  • jw4gmjw4gm Member Posts: 27
    Two days ago my Envoy SLE 2WD (18k miles, built 6/01) engine stalled at 50mph about three miles into my drive home from work. The ABS and BRAKE lights came on and the engine quit. As a daily visitor to this board since day one, I remembered seeing this some time back. I tried every 5 minutes to restart the engine and at 25 minutes it restarted. It ran flawlessly the 10 miles to the dealer. The service tech found no trouble codes stored, and there were no lights or any other indications of a problem, so understandably, there was nothing to fix. The service mgr offered a loaner car and would test my Envoy a few days. I declined his offer telling him I could and would continue to drive it to build a history. I researched this board yesterday (engine stalling) and found several situations similar to mine. PCM, ECM and the Air Suspension System seemed to be candidates (PCM leads). I copied all posts that apply and will discuss them with the service mgr when it happens again, and it surely will. BTW, I am fortunate in that I have an excellent neighborhood dealer service group, so I have no concerns about the problem getting fixed. This is not just an FYI post though, I seek inputs from others out there who have experienced engine stalling. What else should I watch for? Now for the plug....I love this SUV. This and a windshield wiper motor have been it for problems. 410 rear end, K&N Filter, 18mpg summer, 19mpg winter on the 15 mile one-way commute (10 miles county, 5 miles suburb).
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    You get better mileage in the winter? Where are you?

    Usually, the gas formulations make gas mileage in the winter worse. Well, gas formulations and a longer warm up time.

    By the by, anyone know if they have switched over to winter gas yet?
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    The switch to winter gas probably varies by area, but here in Denver it's October to March or April. I'm getting 1-2mpg less now.
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    I've been so tempted to get either the TB or the Envoy. But everytime I convince myself that these 'issues' that people have are just a bad bunch of production, it doesn't stop to amaze me that maybe I shouldn't get either vehicle. Last thing I need is to be having trouble with a brand new truck. Now... I'm starting to look at other alternatives...
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Member Posts: 100
    A new revised TSB 02-08-49-004A has been released this month for this
    problem.

    Models:
    All 2002 Triplets

    Condition:
    Some customers may comment that at times all the IPC gauges are inoperative or read zero

    Cause:
    The IPC cluster module receives information to position the gauges when the key is turned OFF to ON/START. Random electrical interference with this data line may interrupt the receipt of the information by the IPC. When the IPC data information signal is compromised, the IPC will set the gauges to zero for that complete ignition cycle. The gauges may work properly on the next ignition cycle, if the ignition was off for approximately five minutes to the next ignition cycle.

    The Fix:
    Technician needs to use Tech 2 to check software part number and
    re-program the IPC
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Member Posts: 100
    http://www.sendpix.com/albums/021122/1651040000016822a318bc09d40ad9/


    I see that the gap between the Grille and

    Fascia (bumper)is gone. But this is not a production model so we'll have to wait to see what it looks like off the assembly line.

    I like the tailgate and the tent's pretty cool.

  • jmw4jmw4 Member Posts: 67
    A few posts back someone stated that consumer reports rated these vehicles as very unreliable due to frequent mechanical issues. These ratings as someone else stated come from reader surveys. As anyone reading through these posts as I have since April of 2001 when I purchased my TB would notice that every nth post is some type of reliability issue. I have always found the magazine to be very representive of the general ownership experience of vehicles. The TB was a very nice SUV to drive but one gets tired of talking to the service manager all the time and my issues were not nearly as bad as many of those who have posted here. Since trading for a Pathfinder 2 months ago, I have had zero problems. No one came to tow my vehicle in for a suspension issue and keep it for 4 weeks and I have had no transmission delays due to a non-fixable fan engagement issue. I wish the Pathfinder was as roomy,comfortable, and as nice to drive as the TB but I will trade those for not wasting time learning the service managers 1st name on a bi-weekly basis. For those of you lucky folks who have had no problems consider yourselves very fortunate but I believe that the magazine is typically a good indicator of a vehicle's track record.
  • jonij1234jonij1234 Member Posts: 8
    i don't remember when i first got my 2003 envoy xl slt if there was a light in the atc. it is set to 2wd. the manual says there ought to be a light. should i wait til next service or bring this in for service?

    thanks for the response.
  • aadlandaadland Member Posts: 28
    Anybody know? Anybody have a service manual so they can look it up? I really need to know!

    Yes, my 4WD crapped out on me again for the 3rd time. This time it's exhibiting the same symptoms as it did the first time--turn the dial, the light blinks and blinks and blinks but no 4WD. After a while, the light goes out on the 4WD switch all together. The switch seems dead.

    When I took it to the dealer the first time, I assumed the switch had gone bad--not so. The computer said the 4WD Control Module was bad. The funny thing is when they pulled it out and plugged it back in everything worked again! That's exactly what I need to do now but I don't know where it is! Can anybody help?

    I made the dealer replace the module last time but I don't have that luxury right now. It just crapped out tonight. My wife will be working double shifts Saturday and Sunday (driving the TB) while I'm trapped at home with the kids. Monday we take off to Montana, driving over mountain passes of nearly 7000 feet where it will be snowing and I will be hunting with the thing where I WILL need the damn 4WD! No time for a dealer!

    I'm about 50% confident this will get the 4WD working again. I just need to know where the damn thing is....

    Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks.
  • bravadajonbravadajon Member Posts: 60
    My 03 LL Bean Outback with the 6 cyl 3L engine will go in the fast lane. Yes, I admit, that 4 cyl 2.5L enginein the other models is punky...they should go 6 cyl all the way.

    There is still plenty of room for the BIG DOGS with the rear seat up; Subaru also offers a dog gate accesory. There is just as much room as my O2 Bravada if not more. Plus, if you need to put the rear seats down, in the Subaru they will go flat. In the Bravada they would go down partially flat and with a nasty metal pole in the floor. A misery if you car camp and try to sleep in the rear. I am 6'4": I can stretch out in the Outback; I could not do that with the Bravada.

    There is also the new Baja...a truck?
  • quickdtooquickdtoo Member Posts: 266
    The transfer case control module is located under the driver's side instrument panel "attached to the steering column support bracket." per the factory service manual. From the description, it should have 3 individual wiring connectors attached to it.

    Good luck hunting!

    Tim
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    per old TSB, only fix now seems to be resetting the module by pulling the fuse, wait couple of minutes and reinstall, key on. At the time of this TSB, maybe 4 months ago it intimated they were working on a solution. Did mine once at that time so far it's ok.
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Member Posts: 100
    TSB 02-04-21-006A October 2002
    Subject:Inoperative 4WD/AWD Lamps, Inoperative 4WD/AWD System
    (Reprogram Transfer Case Control Module)

    Models:
    2002-2003 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer EXT 2003 ,Chevrolet Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche
    2002-2003 GMC Envoy, Envoy XL
    2003 GMC Sierra, Yukon, Yukon XL
    2002-2003 Oldsmobile Bravada
    with Electronic Shift or ActiveTransfer Case (RPO NP1, NP4 or NP8)

    This bulletin revises bulletin 022-04-21-006 to add Models
    Information and provide software availability information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number
    02-04-21-006(Section 04 - Driveline Axle).

    Condition:
    Some customers may comment that the 4WD/AWD
    indicator lights on the selector switch do not work, or the 4VVD/AWD system may be inoperative and/or the service 4VVD light illuminated.

    Cause:
    The Transfer Case Control Module (TCCM) has not received the wake-up call during Key-Up and has remained in the -sieep mode".
    When the TCCM 'is in the "sleep mode" it will not communicate with the class II bus or the Tech 2

    Correction:
    1.Remove the underhood (ATCM or TREC)TCCM fuse.

    2.Wait 30 seconds.

    3.Reinstall the fuse The module should
    "wake up" and communicate with the Tech 2.

    4.Reprogram the TCCM using normal SPS
    procedures, using TIS software version 11
    released late October2002 or newer
  • jonij1234jonij1234 Member Posts: 8
    Cause:
    The Transfer Case Control Module (TCCM) has not received the wake-up call during Key-Up and has remained in the -sieep mode".
    When the TCCM 'is in the "sleep mode" it will not communicate with the class II bus or the Tech 2

    is this a serious condition that must be fixed ASAP or could i wait for my next service?

    thanks
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