Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

mfullmer

regarding GM and their ways. As frustrated as I am now with them, I'm glad they finally have addressed this problem (although they don't bother to notify the people who have complained about it all along) and didn't think it was fair to make it sound like they were saying it was from a generator.

In any case, now I can take yet another TSB into the dealer and hopefully get this fixed. I finally received notification from Oldsmobile (via e-mail no less) that they are not honoring any request regarding better servicing my vehicle and giving me a loaner vehicle while it is in the shop. It's very clear now that they have no intent on keeping their customers happy.

I, a loyal GM person, am now getting ready to order a new Expedition to have when my Bravada lease is over and a Mercedes E-class to replace my STS with round the same time. I may jump for joy that day!

Interestingly, I've noticed a noticable lack of problems on the Expeditions boards for the new ones. Thinking of how many posts were already on these boards when our vehicles had been out 5 months, it's encouraging.

Anyway, Happy Holidays all!

ross1962

Some cars have push bumpers installed in Puerto Rico - but those are mainly for making your own parking space!

twinrotts

After reading post 8633, I just had to chime in.
Chevrolet, GMC or big mama GM are treating their customers no differently than any car company selling cars today. One reason I'm in a TB today is because if you gave me a Ford, I'd give it back. The last Ford I owned, a 91 Aerostar gave a new set of definitions to me at least of the Ford name. Your choice "fix or repair daily" or "found on road dead"
Back to my urge to write. Had a serious problem with my Ford after less than 3 years of ownership and 62K miles. Heads warped. Was told by my very empathetic dealer that the heads were a recognized problem resulting from mating aluminum heads to a cast iron block without getting the cooling quite right. 1993 models had a head redesign. At 62 K miles car was 2K out of warrantee. Dealer was powerless to do the right thing but did try to represent me. Finally I spoke to the regional service whatever to be told repeatedly, "Sorry sir your car is out of warantee.
At the time I owned (and told the the Ford rep so) a Tauras, the van, and a Lincon Towncar. still the same answer. Except for fixing the van, Ford has not seen a penny of mine since.
Moral of this to wordy but maybe entertaining story. Don't expect any other company to treat you much differently. Just hope you have a competent dealer, and become very familiar with your vehicle so you recognize anything not quite right ASAP.

tlauro

Thanks John! Never had a hate message be such a compliment The garage helps, but we're about to finish the basement and the guys will be using the heated garage to stage everything Just in time for winter eh?

Regarding the Grill Guard...many folks ask why? I did it because I could and I do get use from it. I'm in sales and drive to Indy, Detroit, Cleveland, etc...and city parking....no one comes close to me on the street.

I've made plenty of use of them pushing things out of my way. Mainly at the grocery store and those darn carts!

tim

scottc454

No need to justify it. Grille guards add character. I might get one just because they look cool and I won't feel the least bit bad about it.

bravadajon

That is a great looking vehicle.

Unfortunately, these flashy vehicles are subject to criminals. Here in St . Louis a few months ago a family with a dressed up Tahoe from Indianapolis got on the wrong streets in the city and a couple of them got shot and killed...someone was trying to steal their wheels.

It is pathetic...I would stick to a plain decor.

mfullmer

I'm not sure about their customer service but at this point I don't expect much from most "customer service" people. Since I only will lease for two years I'm not concerned about after warranty service.

My choice on the Ford is two fold -

- Yes, all cars have problems but I've been looking at all of the boards on here and one thing that is a constant is year after year the same problems show themselves on GM cars and GM never seems able or willing to change the design or fix the problem. (The battery issue, which prompted a ride on a flatbed truck for my Bravada is one of them) On the other boards, Ford in particular, I noticed a few problems during the early years of design and then fixes and subsequent fewer problems later.

As far as the new Expedition goes, my contrast was the same period after introduction for the triplets when there were already several hundred posts of problems alone. On the Ford site there are very few minor quibbles.

- #2 - I really wanted a Tahoe/Yukon but I wanted a Navigation system and a third seat that I did not have to schlep around. That was the real selling point.

dplachta

If we buy the Envoy XL, we would use it in to go skiing. There would be 5 of us so one seat would be removed. Would skiis fit in with a rear seat removed? Do they fit under the second row seats? Our longest pair of skiis is 190cm.

Thanks!

smmiller

Seats don't come out in the envoy. A ski rack is your best choice. With luggage for five you're going to want as much room back there for that as well.

sarahsmile501

Am new here, pls excuse if these are old issues

1. Has any one experienced or seen the top of the plastic warping on the front bumpers on the 2002 TBs? On the phone, the service mgr did not seem surprised when i mentioned this.

2. Was there ever a GM resolution to the "once in a while" gunning of the engine upon cold start up of the vehicle (which resolves when you pull out and go to 2nd gear.)

Am taking my TB in for dealer service next week and want to be prepared.

babyshoes

I have an XL and I can almost fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the back with all seats folded down. And it is an advantage that the rear seats fold down instead of you dragging them out and finding a place for them in your already crowded garage. My friends Yukon has very little extra room compared to an Envoy XL.

Two options if you can't fit them inside:
Ski Rack: $$ and hard to get them on and off.
Receiver Rack: Several companies make rear hitch mounted bike racks with ski attachments on them. much easier to get the skis on and off. And, no accidental Garage wrecks with them on top of your vehicle.

dplachta

I figured the skiis would fit if one half the rear seat was folded and a third of the 2nd row seat was too. But I didn't know if there would still be room for 3 kids--two in the 2nd row and one in the 3rd. It looks like the 2nd row could hold two if the one seat is down. Don't know if there's a seat belt there.

bryancos

For those wanting to mount AUX lights, maybe the folks at JAOS would fab one if there's enough interest... check this out:

http://www.jaosusa.com/products/lampstay/

Hardhawk,
May I suggest replacing the stock bulbs w/ Sylvania/Osram Silver Stars. (autozone $23 ea)

http://www.sylvania.com/auto/silverstar.htm

They're significantly brighter than stock 9005/9006 bulbs and you can replace your bulbs for a lot less than most of the other aftermarket bulbs would run. (word of caution: PIAAs don't fit properly and you have to manipulate the retaining ring manually to install them -- I know because I installed them in my Envoy. I wish the Silver Stars were available at the time I bought the PIAAs... I would have got them instead!)

gam2

Hey guys, the hum is coming from the overhead speaker (Onstar and Travelnote). Anyone else have this problem.

Also, anyone else having problems getting fuel in their Triplets? I have to fill it at the slowest rate or the pump kicks off. There are even a couple of places I can't use period because their fill rate is too fast. There must be a restriction somewhere. Varying the angle or insertion depth (get your minds out of the gutter)
makes no difference.

GAM

ficuss

gam2: Try pulling back on the pump nozzle a bit before you start to pump. This will help. Mine does the same thing. Make sure the nozzle has a spiral wire surrounding it to hold it in place during filling before you let go of the handle to check your oil etc. Yet another example of GM's poor triplet engineering--IMHO.

Also, I thought Onstar used the radio speakers for audio output. I remember way back in the beginning, someone said the inside rearview mirror was causing a hum sound. Does anyone else remember?

Frank

hardhawk

Thanks bryancos for the info on the Sylvania lights. I remember your post about fighting with the PIAA replacement bulbs, so I didn't get them. If the Sylvania ones install like regular bulbs, then even I might be able to replace them. I will check them out at AutoZone this weekend!

2002slt

gam2

Is what you're referring to as the overhead speaker, that little round perforated piece on the door pillar? If so, that's used for the auto temp sensor. The hum is the fan kicking on when it samples the inside air temp. I never hear it, but I have heard of others complaining of it.

I too have had trouble in the past filling up at the gas pump. It usually happened when the tank was more than a quarter full. I discovered that if I turned off the vehicle it would work fine. I know you're supposed to do that anyway. I just never have. It hasn't been a problem since.

10,500 miles - still zero defects!!!

gam2

ficuss: I've tried pulling the nozzle back, different angles, etc. Nothing helps. I can't use the auto feature on a pump. It flows too fast even at the lowest setting. Like I said, there are some gas stations I can't use at all because their pumps pump to fast.

The hum or electrical noise comes from the overhead speaker located near the inside rearview mirror. I assume this is where Onstar and the travelnote recorder speaker are. It only does it with the engine on.

GAM

ross1962

#8646 of 8650 Nov 27, 2002 (03:46 pm)
" ...anyone else having problems getting fuel in their Triplets? I have to fill it at the slowest rate or the pump kicks off. "

YES! It just started about a month ago. Driving me nuts! About ready to take it in for that.

tlauro

trouble fitting the PIAA's ????

Mine fit right in. They have a water tight seal, but once they are lined up, they pop right in with little effort.

tim

http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/piaa-headlight-stuff/piaa-installation.htm

ficuss

gam2: I wonder if there is some sort of spinning device similar to a water wheel,used to determine how much gas is pumped into the tank, in the filler neck? If there were this type of metering device in the filler tube and it slowed or restricted the flow of gas it would cause the type of problem you are experiencing. The DIC seems to have accurate information as to available gas and amount of gas added at fillup. It's just a guess, but I would ask. Standing in the cold while gas dribbles into the tank is a gas pain.

Frank

ross1962

"I wonder if there is some sort of spinning device similar to a water wheel,used to determine how much gas is pumped into the tank..."

Actually, this can be a result of an improper seal between the pump and the filler neck lip, but I looked and it looked normal to me. I expect if there's a lot of this going on, we'll hear about it soon.

cparise

Purchased in May and now with almost 10K miles on it I am getting +20mpg hwy and +15mmg city. SLT options are really nice especially climate controls and heated leather in Wisconsin. Used the A4WD for the first time. Just as quiet in A4WD, and HI as 2WD, that's really nice. I've been in Grand Cherokee's where you can hear all that running gear moving around and vibrating the whole passenger compartment. I've read some early complaints about handling but I love the way the Envoy XL handles. I came from a Monte Carlo which had some elements of sportiness to it and the Envoy didn't take much getting used to at all, except for the additional length--it really is a big boy--but I love it. Best vehicle I've ever owned.
I travel often and have rented the Explorer, Mountaineer, Expedition, and Navigator (company uses Hertz). They were okay but my perception is the Envoy is quieter, handles better, has better road feel, and feels better put together. Little quirks about the Ford's are the transmission selectors always feel unsure of what gear you've put it in, the Navigator floats over the road (actually liked the road feel in the Expedition), and the Mountaineer felt like it was riding on pogo sticks.

allenr

I had the same problem on my 02 Bravada. I had the fuel-filling problem on my truck since day one. The mechanic diagnosed as a bad baffle inside the fuel tank. So they ordered a new fuel tank and fuel filler neck. The mechanic must have been look foolish after replacing these two components and my truck still had the problem. I thought it was a vent line problem and I told the service writer that when I brought it in. If you can't get air out of the tank you won't be putting much fuel into it. The mechanics eventually replace the fuel evaporation canister as it was clogged somehow. The first place I would have them look at it is a clog vent line or plugged evaporation canister. Don’t have them replace the fuel tank and in less you can get the bigger one

Allen

bruser1

For those of you still suffering the squeak issue, I finally got it addressed. This is the squeak in the forward half of the vehicle that comes and goes and sounds like a chirp. The service tech traced it back to the hood latch. He solved this by applying lubricant. Hope this is the end of the squeak.
Bruce

2002slt

Hi cparise,

It's nice to hear from someone not complaining about something with his Envoy. I was beginning to think that I have the only well built one in the country, let alone the Great Lakes area.

I've wondered...If I drove without the stereo on, would I maybe hear something others might find annoying? The answer is: probably. I just have too many other things to worry about in my life.

cparise

Mike in Il,
I've read a lot of good postings. If you go the beginning there's a lot of complaints. I don't dispute them but that hasn't been my experience.

At low speed there is some noise but like you say, I've got more important things on my mind and besides I've got the Bose on most of the time. At higher speed its as quiet as bank vault though.

richardcoulson

sarahsmile, I have the warping front bumper. The dealer's body shop want to try and heat it and see if that forces it back into its "memory" position. However, they are wanting permission from the regional rep first incase the heat doesn't work and they have to replace the bumper. Anyone esle had this problem and have had it fixed?

dragonhead08

I'm puzzled as to what the problem would be. I had no problem installing mine. Took less then 10 minutes to install both. I didnt even need to remove the lamp assembly and grill like tim did. All I had to remove was the cover over the radiator and accesed the bulbs from above.

tblazed

I posted this observation a few weeks ago.. TB-LS, 2WD... start-up cold, at night, automatic headlights are on, put into "D" and the headlights flickered a couple of times as I start to drive away. It was mentioned in a previous reply that it might have something to do with the auto-headlight sensor seeing a street light. Nope. Last night it did it in a pretty much totally dark area, so an overhead street light is not the cause. So far have only noticed this a few times, all after a cold start and at the 1st drive-off.

Anyone else dealt with or seen this problem? Was there a permanent fix?

bravadajon

I had the auto lights on my 02 Bravada. Happened to hit that push button on the lower left hand side of the dash that controls the interior and exterior lights coming on when exiting the vehicle while I was driving at night using the auto light function: my headlights went out. Scared me to death. I quickly switched to the manual headlights on. Maybe you have some sort of problem with this little switch, if you have it.

cebteb

Before you buy that new Expedition, checkout the review in Consumer Reports. I know, CR reviews have their problems, but what they found hit on some issues that are important to me in an SUV.

CR noted that the vehicle was a gas hog and lacked adequate power. The ride and road noise were so-so. The best points were easy access to the third row seat and being able to fold the third row seat flat. For me that would be a very poor trade-off.

The testing included a Chevy Tahoe and a Toyota Sequoia, which provide a good comparison regarding power and gas mileage.

tblazed

No, that switch would not cause that problem, thanks for the suggestion though. I am concerned why yours cut off the headhights when you apparently inadvertently bumped the interior light override button. It takes 4 distinct presses of that button to turn off the auto-headlights. Normally that is... I have noticed a flicker in the brightness of the low-beams as I pull off after putting it in "D" and do remember someone else mentioning seeing that same effect. It may be intermittently flickering down to the DRL brightness level, which seems about 80-90% of normal low-beam brightness (not really a lot of difference in brightness) but definitely noticable at night. I won't worry about it til about 2 years from now just before the warranty expires or whatever it is fails completely. Thought maybe this problem had been addressed and resolved.

archdukerizzo

Well the dealer has by buyback checks finally, so I'll be turning in the Bravada as soon as my schedule allows. I only had to "eat" $1100 for the 3400 miles I had on the truck at the time problems were first reported. The rest of my money (tax, tags, finance charges, payments made, etc) is being refunded, and GM has to pay for my lemon law laywer. It's a shame Oldsmobile/GM drove me to do this, but I was tired of hearing my first "servicing" dealer say that every problem I had either could not be reproduced, or did not exist at all, unless I brought in copies of the TSB's that were out there. It's also a shame I had to bring it in for service 2-4 times a month. Ah well, live and learn I guess.

On a side note, does anyone know of a place other than E-bay that I could sell these factory running boards at? I get to keep them since I bought them after I took delivery of the truck. If anyone has any suggestions on how/where to go it would be great. Ebay would be my last resort.

I will miss my Bravada, but not the visits to have it serviced,

stever

Maybe the dealer (or a different one?). Maybe the parts guys can do a consignment deal for you. Otherwise the local "penny saver" paper is all that comes to mind.

What's replacing the Bravada?

Steve, Host

bravadajon

Today I received that letter from Subaru about the recall on that tranny pin.

I set the parking brake always.

I don't have the time to let the dealer have the vehicle for the whole day to fix this. I gotta get to/from work so I can make the car payments. What a hassle!

I will ignore this recall and just set the parking brake.

bravadajon

Sorry,

Post to wrong group.

stever

You can delete your own posts at any time, if you wish. (You also have 30 minutes to edit them). Look for the buttons on your message title line.

Steve, Host

ficuss

I hope you at least put a big WARNING sticker on your dash, so that when you give your keys to a valet or a car wash jockey or a dealer service dept. and they don't use the parking brake, the car doesn't roll away.

Frank

twinrotts

Just put the Nokian HQ's on my vehicle for the long winter and will be storing my summer tires on wheels in an unheated building.
I believe I am supposed to reduce the tire pressure for storage but do not remember how much pressure to keep them at.
Anyone have some knowledge to share.

bimmers

archdukerizzo: Congratulations on your successful lemon law action. If you are not bound by a gag agreement, I'm curious as to how long the process took from the time you engaged your attorney until settlement and whether the case went to court or was settled. How much fuss did GM put up? What was your aggravation factor? Was it one uncorrected problem or a litany of many problems? Curious minds and unhappy owners would like to know!! Offline reply if you wish to: bimmers@comcast.net

dshepherd3

normal storage pressure is 1/2 of running pressure.

ross1962

Just returned from a trip from San Diego to San Luis Obispo. It's about 300 miles each way. My 02 TB got 18.6 mpg. Average speed was about 75. I have the 3.73 diff.
I would say that's not bad for a 270 HP midsize SUV.

previousamigo

One dealer tried to fix the warping bumper but didn't work so I went to a different dealer that replaced the entire bumper. Still warped a little but I was able to cut out for light grills for LS and install used (salvaged) factory fogs before new bumper was painted and installed (all under warranty). I've found each dealer is different as to what they will or won't fix.

Most new TBs on lot already have the warping bumper. GM doesn't like to spend money on glue.

anonymous02

I never knew you were supposed to reduce pressure to store tires. Why? Wouldn't they be at full pressure anyhow if not stored? The only difference is there is no weight on them, and they are not used or outdoors.

I have never had a problem with keeping them at full pressure. Besides, they usually get a little low on their own over the winter anyhow!

kgbkahnk

Took my TB (3.73 diff) with wife, two kids and a dog and loaded to the top out of town over the holidays. 220 miles each way, all interstate hwys with cruise set on 5 mph over the limit (70mph and 75 mph). Got 19.7 mpg going (into the wind), and 20.9 mph coming home (with the wind). Still getting about 16-17 around town.

Just turned 5000 miles, so i'm still expecting to maybe see a little improvement, but i sure can't complain after this trip.

monaco2

I saw the GM service message about the voltage transient from the elect. controlled air suspension module to the PCM. GM says to install a jumper harness at the module in series with the compressor and connector C1. But it only concerned some Envoys and Bravadas. Does anyone know why GM does not have the same fix for Trailblazers?

kgbkahnk

GM doesn't have the same fix for the Trailblazer, because the TB does not have the Air Suspension.

dshepherd3

By reducing the pressure during storage, you protect the tread and side walls fromm the normal tendency to develop cracks in the outer carcass and tread area.

anonymous02

I usually go through tires before that ever happens. Usually about 3 seasons on snow tires.

The summer tires are only stored from about now (should have been 3 weeks ago this year!) until maybe the end of April or so.