Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

1166167169171172352

Comments

  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Why are you even considering this vehicle for commuting?

    "In city traffic commute is where you will see the worst; these things don't like to idle too much."
  • gator36gator36 Member Posts: 294
    I usually check this forum every day and on that day I was on my way to the dealer. The dealer I go to, i have a service writer that will do some stuff like that. He printed the TSB for me while we were looking up something for my other truck.

    Walter (Gator)
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    Well, I've given up trying to contact the Southeast Zone Rep. as suggested by my Service Manager. The dealer won't give me any information and the Oldsmobile Customer service who is handling my file won't give me any information. Now I guess I'm going to have to go through her.

    Though I'm sure they won't take the car back and let me lease a Yukon, I have asked that, at the very least, they provide me with SUITABLE transportation for any warranty visit even if they don't keep it overnight. I was even as specific as to say "Full-Size vehicle or larger". No more crappy Neons or Cavaliers for me!!!!

    I have put the vehicle up on Leasetrader.com and swapalease.com. Since I hadn't gotten any bites I even put it in the local paper. We'll see, I'm offering $500. as an incentive. I really want to get a new Yukon while the $2k cash back is around!
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    I guess you did not read the part that said that she does not commute in the city??? Plus I'm trying to find out how bad these really are on fuel before i make a decision. I find it amazing/baffling that this 6 cylinder in a mid size SUV is only getting about 3mpg better than my 1ton 4x4 6 liter fullsize truck? Actually after looking at the MPG on the s-10, the escape 6 cylinder, Liberty, and the TB i pretty amazed how bad they all seem to be on fuel in todays EPA world. The Rav4 is the only one that gets respectable mileage, of course its gutless, and much smaller then the TB or any of the others for that matter.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I guess it comes down to weight, frontal surface area, and tires.

    Keep the tires skinny, small front, and low weight for better mileage.

    I'd really like to see a Liberty diesel. Does GM have any small 4 cylinder turbodiesels that would fit in a Trialblazer?
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Well, I have read 8486+ of these posts, and have read of the problems posted here. New cars sometimes have defects. That's what the warranty is for. Of probably well over 200,000 (?) triplets sold the number of recurring problems seem minor in perspective. I certainly am glad that I bought my TrailBlazer though. So far a great vehicle. Have owned a TB-LS 2WD with the 1SC package that you get all the essential options with since Jan '02, I haven't had any reason to put it in the shop yet for any failure except just one recall that took 30 min to do (the fuel filter clip).

    Trailblazer Woes by lp1976, I am curious - where was the gas leaking from? Did the tank itself leak, was it the fuel line leaking or ?? Sounds like when they replaced the fuel pump they musta screwed up and didn't get something put back together correctly if right afterwards you had a serious leak. Getting warranty work done properly by competent personnel seems to be a bigger issue than the vehicle reliability itself.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Well, I have read 8486+ of these posts...

    I am impressed!

    tidester, host
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Tidester HOST, I got caught up on the posts back in Jan when there were only about 3500-4000. Only took me a couple of days then. I've kept updated pretty much daily since. GM Triplets-The continuing saga...
  • js237js237 Member Posts: 13
    Here is a site I found and I am going to have these wheels installed and use the Toyo Proxes tires.


    http://www.customwheelsdirect.com/Ultra/191.htm

  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    WOW!!!

    Why are you doing that to your 4x4 anyhow?

    Might as well buy a car...

    (rolls eyes)
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Just keep in mind if you change the overall diameter of the tires the speedo and odometer calibration will change proportionally, and throw off the DIC mileage calculations if you have that. Until HyperTech or some other company comes out with a Triplet reprogrammer there isn't much we can do about recalibrating for different tire sizes.
  • js237js237 Member Posts: 13
    Toyo lists the rotations per mile for the tire, how do you calculate the difference. I don't want to get a speeding ticket!

    Thanks.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Who goes the speed limit anyhow?

    Besides, maybe you can keep your mileage down over the life of the car!

    You never answered why you would do something like this to a truck/4x4/SUV type of vehicle?

    ????
  • previousamigopreviousamigo Member Posts: 130
    "You never answered why you would do something like this to a truck/4X4/SUV type of vehicle"

    My question to you is why wouldn't you...? Heck, if ya got the money, spend it. I've never seen an armored Brinx truck full of cash following a funeral car to a cemetery.
  • milehighjcmilehighjc Member Posts: 3
    Have a two week old Silver Green TB EXT - so far, love it. Have had two "sample" defects : one a rattle in drivers door that seems to have been resolved quickly an easily, but number two seems to be an oddball... wondering if anyone has seen it, or can confirm that your EXT doesn't exhibit the same problem.

    NET : cant seem to get any heat from the rear upper vents - the ones in the roof. With the HVAC set to Bi-level, and the rear fan running (either from the front control, or rear control), and the temperature for the rear all the way up, they blow cold air. This isn't a matter of heating up the duct work, as It stays that way even on extended drives.

    First answer from the service rep was that it "was a long way from the heater to those vents" and that "nobody uses them anyway". Thought that was a rather flip answer, so I called the service manager who wants to see the truck again (she was VERY nice about it, thought it was a bad answer too).

    Anybody else seeing this? Maybe a stupid user error, but I don't think so...

    Thanks in advance!
  • beach15beach15 Member Posts: 1,305
    Nice color! I've now seen both a fully loaded "LTZ-like" EXT in silver green and a new Bravada in the same color. Looks quite nice.
  • monstersincmonstersinc Member Posts: 13
    Just got my 2003 TB EXT (Oct 03 build, Okla plant)
    In answer to your question, see the paragraph on manual page 3-29

    "...Selecting Bi-level mode will deliver warmer air to the third seat floor outlet and cooler air to the headliner outlets...."

    I also have a 1999 Pontiac Montana Extended with rear a/c. It does the same thing. I actually like this. Heat rises, so it should come from the floor.
  • cebtebcebteb Member Posts: 138
    I'm a little perplexed as to why SUV size, as in "a Toyota RAV4 isn't big enough", is an issue given that your wife is currently driving a Neon. Unless there is some routine function for this vehicle other than as your wife's commuter vehicle, I think you are off the track in considering a Trailblazer. The Trailblazer is a large, heavy, SUV, with a thirsty, high horsepower engine. It would seem to be far more than your wife could use and you would pay a hefty price in initial cost, insurance, and gasoline.

    As to the regular Blazer, it's old technology, never highly regarded, with its primary selling point being relatively low cost. It truly won't offer you any more room or power than a Ford Escape. The AWD Escape would be my choice for your application, but don't expect to average 20 mpg even with it.

    If SUV gas mileage is the important criteria, your wife was on track with the Toyota RAV4. Consumer Reports highest rated, small SUV. Overall gas mileage reported at 22 mpg. Of course it moves like a stone, but since your wife is used to a Neon, she shouldn't notice.
  • milehighjcmilehighjc Member Posts: 3
    beach15 - Thanks... when we started this, we wanted Majestic Red, but the Silver Green really has grown on us - you don't see many of them either.

    monstersinc - AHA! Guess I should RTFM ;-) Thanks for the tip, somehow I missed that. However, my read of it is that in "panel mode" I should still get heat from the headliner outlets. Ill have to try that, I typically don't use panel mode (wife likes her tootsies toasty), but if I can get a blast of warm air to the kiddies on the long trips, think I'm pretty happy.
  • cebtebcebteb Member Posts: 138
    With a little under a thousand miles on my '03 Bravada, I can report that gas mileage is so far disappointing. I wasn't too concerned with the first check being 14.4 mpg, because that driving was stop and go in severe winter weather for a week. But, with good weather, my best for suburban commuting is 16.4 mpg. A 150 mile trip on the interstate at 65-75 mph yielded 18.2 mpg.

    In general I find it difficult, w/o consciously taking fuel saving driving measures, to keep the gas mileage about 15.2 mpg. I hope this will all improve when the Bravada gets 5 to 10K miles on the engine.

    A few other related observations. The electronic Average MPG indicator is very accurate. Every check I've made using manual calculations versus the readout has shown the readout to be dead-on. I'll probably just use the readout from now on.

    The Bravada has an incredibly low roll resistance. Once it is at speed on level ground, it will coast with little loss of speed for a considerable distance. Instantaneous MPG during those coasting hit over 60 MPG. A slight downhill and it is practically a perpetual motion machine. Very impressive! However, a slight grade really sucks the gas. I think this SUV could really use a 5-speed transmission.

    Finally, how many triplet owners use Middle-Grade gasoline rather than regular. At my dealership that told me the Bravada ran on regular, but to get all the horses out of it I should use mid-grade. Of course, here in metro-Denver, mid-grade is only 87 octane, so their advice may be location influenced.
  • stoney11stoney11 Member Posts: 10
    Have Bravada for 5 months--been in service total of 22 days , that's almost one month. Every time I get in it , it is an adventure never knowing what it will do!! It's also very scarry! Lots of safety issues and lots of annoying ones. List is very long.
  • sbindleysbindley Member Posts: 28
    What's wrong with improving the looks and handling of an SUV? I've done a few things that make my Envoy look better, drive better and sound better (inside and out). It's off-road characteristics are no worse, and it is better now in snow than stock.
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    The TB got in the mix because the Neon has become to small since a family is not far away, along with a 100lb german shepherd that travels with us. The Rav is actually smaller than the neon in length and width, all it really offer is more height for stacking stuff in it over the Neon,so I'm not really sold on it????? Her vehicle is not strictly a commuter vehicle, we use her car for all of our traveling when ever possible since i drive a '02 2500HD 4x4 ext cab 6.0 liter gas hog thats why mileage is sort of important. Also as i said before its in the mix because of my GMS supplier pricing i can get it for very close to the same price as the other smaller SUV's, IE more bang for the buck the way i see it. As for the Neon being a stone, obviously you have never driven a Neon R/T they go quite well, in fact i have taken hers to the race track and it runs mid 15 sec 1/4 mile times, which I'm pretty sure is much faster than ANY of the SUV's I'm looking at. After looking at the numbers it looks like NONE of my choices will crack the 20 MPG range except the Rav........ Crunching a few numbers, a vehicle getting 22mpg versus 18 mpg will only cost a extra $132 in fuel per 10,000 mile based on $1.50 a gallon. Its starting to look like if I'm going to get cruddy mileage regardless of choice (except the RAV) i may as well have the HP and the extra space and comfort and cough up the $200 more a year for fuel? I guess i need to drive the TB and the escape and the older blazer and see what one really drives the best (i'm sure the blazer will lose) and then go from there.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    "...in the mix because of my GMS supplier pricing i can get it for..."

    Have you looked at and/or considered the Tracker?
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    "At my dealership that told me the Bravada ran on regular, but to get all the horses out of it should use mid-grade."


    The dealership must know something the engineers at GM don't. These engines are designed and set up for 87 octane gas. Using a higher octane costs more but will not yield more power. A vehicle that states it requires higher octane will sense the knock and de-tune itself, but one that is set up and designed for regular will not "tune up" to the higher octane.


    http://service.gm.com./gmtechlink/images/issues/archive.html


    Follow this link, and select the 04-2000 (April '02) article about gasoline and octane requirements.

    Reason as I undersatnd it why the octane numbers are different in Denver is the altitude- the less-dense air effectively lowers the compression and the octane spec by about 2 points.

  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    No i have not, they do nothing for me, i would buy a Ford before i buy a Tracker!!!!
  • st1100v4st1100v4 Member Posts: 96
    "With a little under a thousand miles on my '03 Bravada, I can report that gas mileage is so far disappointing. I wasn't too concerned with the first check being 14.4 mpg..."

    At 500 miles my '02 Bravada showed 14.5 avg on the DIC. It's now up to 18.3 at about 9700 miles.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    I sure hope the comment about "spending the money if you have it because Brinks trucks don't roll behind hearse'" is from someone who is very old and planning on dying soon.

    If one has money to spend on frivilous items to make a vehicle more apt to be stolen or car-jacked I would hope that the person has enough sense to put that money into their retirement savings instead of wasting it on a depreciating asset.
  • st1100v4st1100v4 Member Posts: 96
    "Toyo lists the rotations per mile for the tire, how do you calculate the difference. I don't want to get a speeding ticket!"

    If you know the rotations per mile of your current tire (should be able to find it listed at TireRack.com), the difference in speed would just be a straight ratio of the two numbers. E.g. Mph indicated * 750/700 = actual mph. For which way to set the ratio, just remember that if you go from more r/m to less your actual will be higher, and vice versa.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    What I was referring to was putting "performance" tires on an SUV. What a joke!

    Really now, what is up with THAT?
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    I hope you bought your SUV used and plan on running it till its dead, or your are just like the pot calling the kettle black.... ALL cars are depreciating assets, and buying them new is the WORST way to do it if you are smart with your money. I'm sure if we went to your house we would find some frivilous items, or I'm sure there are some options on your SUV that are considered frivilous IE heated seats, power seats,power mirrors, ETC ETC. Do you really NEED those items to get back and forth to your destinations, or even better yet you should be using mass transit, or car pooling and not even own a vehicle. I personally like modifying my vehicles some to make them look a little different than the 10 million others out there, while i do not think putting 18's and low profile performance tires is real smart on a SUV its his SUV and to each his own.
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    I don't like the Tracker either, but if I wanted a mini-ute I'd hold out for an Equinox:


    http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0209/04/c01-577692.htm


    No i have not, they do nothing for me, i would buy a Ford before i buy a Tracker!!!!

  • previousamigopreviousamigo Member Posts: 130
    Nope, I'm young, never been married, mortgage on a five year old house, CPA, tax manager, and have maxed out my 401K ever since I was able to get in. Sure glad this is a free country and can spend my money on big fat wheels and tires for my long-term highly depreciable TB LS.

    It's not a "joke" that I run 25 miles a week so I don't plan on ending up dead anytime soon. It is good to be me! Don't beleive what people say about boring bean counters. We know money.

    I hope you have many enjoyable miles driving your tiplet.
  • ross1962ross1962 Member Posts: 229
    "As to the regular Blazer, it's old technology, never highly regarded, with its primary selling point being relatively low cost. It truly won't offer you any more room or power than a Ford Escape. The AWD Escape would be my choice for your application, but don't expect to average 20 mpg even with it."

    The Escape is another car-based SUV. Even though the old Blazer is crude and "old technology", it will blow the doors off the Escape in every way but ride quality (that is if you think a floaty ride is desireable). I had a '93 two-wheel drive Blazer and drove it off-road daily - beat the snot out of it - and I can tell you that there's no way the Escape could handle that and survive.
    The Escape is really just a car.
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    ross1962 Nov 20, 2002 3:57pm

    While i have to agree with your statements 100% that the blazer is more of a truck than a Escape is the whole reality to my wife and 90% of the people who buy these type of vehicles is that they use them as cars on pavement, not offroad vehicles. I love the people on the liberty board touting how its the "only true offroad vehicle" of the small SUV class ETC and how great the ground clearance is over the CRV, blah blah blah. The only offroading ,most of them do is when they crash off the side of the road missing a deer, or at the local state parks dirt road to the picnic area for lunch, thats not offroading to me. All my wife wants is something that will get her through the snowstorms of NY and to some of my friends cabins which are dirt roads, both of these are well within the relm of the vehicles I'm looking at. Back when i was into off roading i had a ZR2 reg cab short box truck, now that truck could go through some stuff!!! I thought many a times i would be stuck in knee deep mud or bumper deep snow and it made it through, man do i miss that truck, it would do circles around my 2500HD!!
  • rgrossmanrgrossman Member Posts: 37
    Depending on the area of the country you live in gasoline formulas vary between winter and summer. I live outside of Boston and get noticeably less mpg in winter then in summer. Probably on the order of 1-2 mpg less in winter. Just something else to factor into the equation when you think your mileage is not up to snuff.
  • gam2gam2 Member Posts: 316
    I suggest you look at a Subaru Outback or Forester. Decent performance and gas mileage in the mid 20's. AWD drive is superior to GM's except
    they are not made to tackle major off-road excursions.
    GAM
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    "...All my wife wants is something that will get her through the snowstorms of NY and to some of my friends cabins which are dirt roads, both of these are well within the relm of the vehicles I'm looking at. ..."

    ...like she should have an Outback, or Audi, or 4Motion Passat, or any other 4wd car. Not worth the mpg penalty for an SUV if not using it. If she does use it, that's another matter.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    "I suggest you look at a Subaru Outback or Forester. Decent performance and gas mileage in the mid 20's. AWD drive is superior to GM's except
    they are not made to tackle major off-road excursions."

    I didn't see that until I posted mine. I forgot the Forester. Those are real nice wagons. The inlaws took one camping Labor Day weekend. They said it rode nice, was good on gas, and swallowed loads of stuff.
  • cebtebcebteb Member Posts: 138
    Thanks for the additional info on your new vehicle needs. Given that, the vehicles you are planning to test drive, including the Trailblazer, are all in the running. The RAV4 is probably going to be too small and too slow for you.

    The Blazer, well I'm selling a '91 (style before they shrunk it) and I can tell you they ride like a pickup, are noisy, have adequate power from a rough running engine that should never have been chopped from an 8 to 6, and still won't beat the Escape 0 to 60.

    I'm afraid your wife will fall in love with the ride quality of the Trailblazer. If you really want to sell her, get her in an Envoy with the pneumatic rear springs. By comparison, the Blazer will seem like something out of the early 80s, which it is. For you, the Trailblazer/Envoy can blow the doors off anything else you're considering.

    I did a little more research for you and I have one more suggestion. Check out a Saturn VUE. Pretty good zip and 18 mpg all-around driving. They seem to be picking up in popularity in the metro-Denver area, one of the SUV capitals. Is you GM credit good on a Saturn?

    As to the Forrester and Outback, they are really just glorified station wagons. They get good reviews and they have their place, but I don't think your dog will be able to stand up in the back of one. They also are a bit under-powered.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    XTerra, Axiom, and most notably, the Sorento!
  • pete2002pete2002 Member Posts: 36
    Our vehicles (Trailblazer, Envoy and Bravada) were listed as having one of the worst expected overall reliability in the buying guide and not recommended. Other manufacturers did not fair too well either. However, the Yukon and Tahoe were recommended. I suspect the 2004 guide may make matters worse next year for the residual value of our trucks by listing it as one of the ones to stay away from. Since this is the first model year, CR did not list the truck in the used auto section.
  • bravadajonbravadajon Member Posts: 60
    My 03 Outback LL Bean Wagon...2 months old...3.0L engine quite zippy...23-24mpg in city...no long highway drives yet to test that mpg. You and your dog will love it!!!! Plenty of room to stand up...unless it is a horse. These autos stick to the road.
  • bravadajonbravadajon Member Posts: 60
    Many of you may recall I was concerned that replacing a stout SUV with my Sube Wagon would compromise my ability to respond to SAR missions. I volunteer for our BackCountry Sheriff's SAR.

    A few nights ago we got called out for a lost young hunter and most of my fears were alleviated.

    There was snow on the dirt access roads we were searching in the higher areas and the command post was established on a saddle where several of these came together. I completed my sector and reported to the CP for another at about 3am. The deputy was not our normal CP commander, and I requested an area I thought likely which he agreed to. About 10 minutes after I left, I was listening to chatter on the radio that the area I was heading to had a surprising amount of snow and there were large patches of ice. A little later another team heading into the area from another direction turned back after encountering this. Following this, the CP called me and suggested I turn around since I was "in a car" that would have trouble. Heh.

    I seemed to have trouble getting reception in the valley, so I did not respond as I'd felt from the beginning that these exact conditions were likely to be the reason our hunter was missing - probably slid off the trail. I also had confidence in the Sube's AWD and my brand new Michelin Arctic Alpins.

    Encountering the first slippery spot, I made a point of stomping the brakes, flooring it and generally driving sloppily to test my traction. I was favorably impressed and continued on. There were a couple of locations where the snow depth became an issue, but the Sube never missed a beat despite dragging the floor at times. I have lived all my life in snow country, so trust my judgement in these matters, keeping in mind that the worst thing I could do for the victim would be to get stuck and divert resources to rescue me.

    I cleared the entire area over a 90 minute period without seeing the victim's truck or any indication he'd slid off the road. Upon arrival back at the CP via another direction (big loop), I pulled up and let them know the sector was clear. Several of my buddies on the Team were standing around with their trucks and SUVs parked, knowing grins on their faces while the substitute deputy quietly ate crow. I found out later he'd been talking to my buddies about sending a rescue vehicle to look for me, but they all resisted this as a waste and assured him I'd be back just fine.

    So, the Sube proved itself well. I also got to rib everyone when the search appeared likely to continue all night. I'd folded the seats down and spread a sleeping bag in back with my gear along one side of the cargo area. When the continued search was announced, I let everyone know that I was going to catch a nap all stretched out in my Sube while they sat cramped in their crew cabs. Heh..

    I'm sure when the snow gets deeper I'll have to switch to the Cruiser, but it was a bit of fun for me this time.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
  • gsxr1216gsxr1216 Member Posts: 62
    Thanks for all the additional choices, they all would make pretty good vehicles. My shepherd is pretty tall, her head hits the roof of my 2500HD when she is on the seat in the extracab. Subaru i think would meet her needs no problem, but one of her co-workers has one and she thinks they are ugly as sin, so i don't think i can sell her on that???? She also wants to get off the ground a little, one thing she likes about my truck is that people don't pull right out in front of you like they do when you drive a Neon. So she is looking for something a little bigger then what she has now (no full size truck though!), 4wd/AWD, and with more room. I never looked at the Vue, guess i will have to, and if my discount can be used there that would make it a strong contender. I was also surprised at the prices on the subaru, man up to $30k loaded up,YIKES, better off putting the extra fuel in a TB. If i could get supplier pricing on a Escape this would be an easy decision, or if i had to pay full price on a TB it would also be a easy decicsion to pick the Escape. Guess I'll research the Vue a little. Thanks all.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Seasonal gas mileage: also keep in mind it takes longer for the engine to get up to full operating temperature when it's cold outside- that effects the mileage too.

    Having been in the consumer electronics biz since 1977 I have seen enough errors mistakes and outright bias (against certain brands, political etc) with Consumer Reports to cancel my subscription many years ago. If I need to buy a washing machine or a refridgerator I borrow someones CR Buyers Guide for reference, but that might happen every 15 to 20 years or so. They are pretty good at evaluating home appliances. Sometimes.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I don't read Consumer Reports anymore. When they trashed the Mustang as too loud and the Trooper mess up of theirs, well, it was too much.

    I'll go to the library if I need another refrigerator review, which won't be for a while, either.

    RE: Subarus, I hated the looks too, thinking the Forrester looked like Princess Di's hearse. That was until we went on vacation with the inlaws in one! It was a nice silver, and up close they aren't that bad. In fact, the newer ones look a little different, and I think I like them even better. There are some nice colors also, in particular, a green one.
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    search and rescue
  • tjay1911tjay1911 Member Posts: 10
    My wife's Envoy didn't crank this morning. The lights and dash come on but there is no activity under the hood. The engine would not start. Has anyone experienced this problem? If so, what was the problem? This is frustrating because the suv is barely a year old.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Yet another problem with these?

    I think I might as well soon unsubscribe from this chat room. This is not improving by any means.
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