Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

archie34

After having my TB since May '01 I have recently noticed an intermittent condition when first starting the vehicle in the morning. When the TB has set overnight with the outside temperature in the teens or lower, when the engine first starts the charging rate only goes approx. half way up and sets there for 10-15 seconds. It then jumps up to the normal charge rate. Above this temperature the gage goes right up to normal charge. All other gages behave normally. Has anyone on this board observed this condition with their TB or offer an explanation for it?

tblazed

Copied it from the very handy GM service data 5-CD set I obtained that includes all the bulletins to the date of the CD issue (April '02).

funits

Funny you should mention this condition . . . now that the temperature overnight has been below 24°F, I have noticed that the charge rate does exactly as you described. Charge rate goes all the way to normal when the temperature is above 24°F. I first noticed the condition when the ECAS on my Envoy sounded funny first thing in the AM, then noticed the charge rate was low, but would "jump up" to normal in 30 seconds or less. I plan to "mention" this condition at my next oil change, but I have little faith that anything will be done about it.

tblazed

My TB reads out system Voltage, not the charge rate. That would be in Amps per hour. My question is, why would the system Voltage be so low when below 24°F... maybe a weak battery? Battery voltage will go down with the temperature.

macman246

Under what conditions does your stalling happen?

Mine is intermittent. It seems to happen to my Envoy when I'm stopped at a stoplight. The engine will be purring along fine, then all of a sudden the idle drops and the engine shudders. IF it recovers, the idle goes back up to normal. However, if it doesn't recover it just dies. If you got your Bose up loud, you won't even know you're stalled.

The shuddering seems to happen more often when the AC or heater is on, and the air compressor for the rear suspension activates. But sometimes all of these are off and it does it anyway.

The first attempt to fix this was back in August. They found an error code and replaced the PCM (or ECM according to part number).

The second attempt to fix this was a few weeks ago. No error codes this time. I had to wait 12 days to have a new throttle body installed. On the way home from the shop, the engine shuddered when the air suspension activated but no heater/AC on. On the way to work the next morning with the heater on, it shuddered twice.

My service advisor has been great to work with. It's back in the shop for a third try. No runarounds yet. I did come across an article in the December 2002 GM Techlink about the Vehicle Data Recorder being used to diagnose intermittent problems. I will suggest that to my service advisor if he gives me a "cannot duplicate".

Here's the link: http://service.gm.com/gmtechlink/images/issues/cnt_mo/TLDec02e.html

the_gman

I just bought my TB in October and noticed slight "hesitations" in late November. The hesitations has twice turned into a stall, both while accelerating from a stop on a small incline. It seems that most of these "hesitations"/"stalls" occur when accelerating (moderately) from a complete stop, especially on inclines.
My dealer says that's the first he has heard of this but I am not so inclined to believe him. Anyway it's off to the shop to see what they make of this.
Has anyone else encounter this problem?

mfullmer

The voltage meter is just that. It reads the amount of voltage that is coming from the battery. It is a normal response for the batter to loose "juice" during cold weather. (Thats why people up north sometimes use heaters for their batteries.) It's also normal for the battery to jump up to a full 14 +/- volts shortly thereafter as the alternator has charged it.

The sign of a problem would be if the voltage did NOT go back up to full after a few minutes. That means that the battery is not taking a charge (or the alternator is not charging it well enough).

steveotoy

1st--Purchased a 2003 Envoy SLT two months ago..So far it is flawless and absolutely love it.

2nd--smoking problem for Expedition..I also have an F150 Pickup..It also had a smoking problem that only occured on first startup, and especially if it sat for a few days. Took it to my Ford dealer. They had it for nearly a week. They replaced valve guides, seals, and injectors. I thought "oh boy, this should do it!". It did not. Had the same problem. I went ahead and ran it that way for quite awhile. My performance was
just fine. When my warranty was about to run out, I made one more attempt to fix the problem. The dealer now had a different service manager. His first question was "Did anyone replace the PCV valve?". No. He pulled it out and it was dripping with oil. Put in a new one, and my problem was gone completely. We are talking about a two dollar part..I now have another 70,000 miles since this original problem, I have been routinely replacing the PCV valve, and have not had any smoke ever. Try it! Might be all you need.

hardhawk

Had a strange thing happen last night in my Envoy. Was on the way home from sledding down the back side of a dam and we were all damp and cold. Had the front heater on, the rear heater on, and the rear defroster on. When I changed from Auto to front defrost on the front control panel, the rear heat shut itself off. The rear display said off and the rear system was off. After the kids howled, I switched back to Auto on the front panel and the rear system came back on where it was before I hit the front defrost button. I am going to read the owner's manual tonight, but thought I would describe this event to see if there have been any others like it out there. I also had both front seat heaters on as well as the headlights and Bose stereo. It was almost as if there was too much load on the system and the computer shut down something. Any thoughts??

brewpaul

Well, we've had our Envoy for about 1.5 years and 40k miles. My wife still loves it, but my dad was correct about never buying a model year car! This is certainly not a rip post, as we have recommended the Envoy to friends (neither whom have had an ounce of trouble in the past 6+mos.), but a chronology of some of the issues we've dealt with. Any help or insight would be awesome ... thanks.

[1]The back hatch on the Envoy weighs a ton, which is a good thing ... EXCEPT they forgot to tell the strap manufacturer. We went through three straps before GMC finally changed the design. (warranty ... FIXED)

[2] The idiot lights on the dash all of the sudden started to do a light show. We had up to four (4) on at one time. We took it in and they found nothing. Finally a TSB came out, our dealer called and fixed the problem. (warranty ... FIXED)

[3] The "service engine soon" light came on. The engine was running fine & unfortunately it was not the dreaded gas cap ;-) My wife took it back to the dealer & they got it to work (something with a door harness shorting the dash). (warranty ... UH!!!)

[4] Its baaack!!! The engine light is back on. The car still seems to run fine, so we took it back yesterday. I'm hoping its the same thing (40k miles ... OUCH)

[5] We were driving home from Ohio (about 4 hours) and all of the sudden, the car seemed to slip into A/4wd. ... The dash lit up with "service 4wd" and all the indicator lights on the control dial started to flash. Pretty wierd, so we pulled into a store, turned the car off/on & viola ... problem solved. Unfortunately, driving to the dealer yesterday it happened again. I believe there is a TSB on this one ... we'll see ;-) (40k miles ... OUCH)

[6] After filling the Envoy with gas, the fuel gauge got pegged well past the Full indicator. The funny part is while we were using the odometer to gauge our fuel load, I noticed the car was running at over 5k RPMs. I asked my wife what the temp gauge was doing & she noticed the speedometer was clocking her at 95 mph. Of course the Ohio State Trooper must not have taken a slightly slower clocking; we all know how those Ohio troopers can behave around speeders :-) Anyhow, I suspect since nothing was pegged when my wife dropped it off ... we will need to be making a return trip to the dealer. (40k miles ... OUCH)

My point, most of the folks here love their Triplet, but some of us HAVE had our hands full. Before my wife left, the dealer gave her a courtesy car, said they'd do what they could with GM (read nothing probably) and quoted us approx. $400 - $600. I would PROBABLY buy the Envoy again, but its been a rough couple years

ficuss

brewpaul: that is what extended warranties are all about. Reading the previous 9000 posts here should have impressed on you any many others how important the extended warranty can be on such a hi tech vehicle. Find out if it's too late for you to buy the GM major guard plan. I paid about $1400.00 for it. The coverage is for 5 yrs and 75k miles with a $100.00 ded.

Frank

kellwad

Thanks macman246! I have noticed this while backing out of the drive and then putting into drive. Also does it sometimes when accelerating from a stoplight. Might not do it for a couple of days. Heat has been on all of these times.

ducatist4

I think it is important to understand that we all get frustrated to different things, and it is impossible to compare one persons pain to another persons. A ding on my Bravada doesn't upset me too much, or if I have to take it in for some warranty work. But ont he other hand, if someone scratches my speakers, I am the biggest idiot We all have various thresholds, and respond differently, and thats alright.

jonij1234

40k in just a year and a half? no wonder, your envoy is giving up on you.

brewpaul

Got off the phone with the dealer today. We appear to have made out pretty good:

[3] "The "service engine soon" light came on": This is something that registered on the on board computer. I guess the oxygen sensor is broke. this is a quick fix.

[5] "The dash lit up with "service 4wd": The dealer said the on board computer had no history of this, but they are aware of some big problem the triplets are experiencing. He mentioned that this problem is a possible recall situation since California is threatening to sue GM if they don't initiate a recall. Anyhow, the need to replace the "transfer case switch" (I think) and it is a little more complicated than the sensor.

[6] "The gauges all pegged": This one was caused by the software controlling the dash gauges. The dealer said GM has updated the software since our Envoy was built and the new version needs to be installed.

All said and done, I am looking at about $600 parts & labor w/ the dealer graciously eating the rental car costs.

FICUSS: I am one step ahead (or behind ;-) you. I have the service department looking into the extended warranty. The dealer said the cost of the software would not be covered, but the rest might be retroactive of the service. I have owned a number of high mileage cars / trucks and never even considered an extended warranty ... maybe times are a changing!!!

JONIJ: My wife 7 I do a ton of highway driving. Wee usually put 125k+ on a car with less problems than most get at half that. The dealer said none of the problems are even remotely mileage related. They are design & fluke problems.

Again, I love the truck. It is sharp as a tack & quick as a cat. the turning radius is tighter than my monte carlo 7 it feels solid as steel. We have simply run into some problems that the dealer said they are seeing with the Envoy. If anyone want me to post the actual service done (not my interpetations) when I get the Envoy back, I'd be glad.

peace

crosley4

We attended the local autorama of new vehicles here in Phoenix,AZ.

I was looking at a 2003 Isuzu SUV. I noticed it is powered by a 4200 Vortec 6. Then I notice it is based off of the TB and Envoy .

I believe it was called the Ascender.

I did not know this vehicle was coming out.

Tony

scottc454

I assume Cparise meant Armor All leather wipes as opposed to the ones with regular Armor All. They won't make it slippery. It's just like how Meguiars has Gold Class for vinyl and Gold Class for leather.

I question whether you really need to do anything. The seats appear to be treated with something from the factory because they dry almost instantly after washing.

redline65

I drove the Ascender a few weeks back. It's pretty nice, but I don't like the fake wood compared to the Envoy's fake wood. Other than the front fascia and the Isuzu wheels you would think it was an Envoy XL. Isuzu has a longer powertrain warranty too, and I think they are priced lower than the Trailblazer EXT or Envoy XL. Also, I guess there will soon be 5 when the Buick Rainier comes out, unless they axe the Bravada first.

redline65

For December, GM truck sales (301,528) were up 36 percent. December utility vehicle sales were an all-time monthly record for GM (139,749) and were up 56 percent as GM became the first manufacturer ever to top 1.2 million SUV sales in a calendar year. GM's midsize utility sales for the month were 57,967, an increase of 50 percent. GM's December sales of full-size utility vehicles (69,630 units) were up 47 percent from year-ago levels. GM also posted strong full-size pickup sales in December (108,226), an increase of 21 percent.

http://www.gm.com/cgi-bin/pr_display.pl?3338

tgp1810

Would the 2WD w/ traction be enough for Michigan weather, or should I just get the 4WD? I have no plans to ever tow anything.

mlauricella

tgp1810

Get the 4x4. You will be sorry if you dont.

gam2

Gee, think 0% financing had anything to do with it. Analysts say this end of the year push could cost GM $115 million and will likely rsult in extremely poor January sales. Everyone expects low financing now, and if GM keeps jacking up prices to compensate (like the $1200-1500 increase from 2002 to 2003), we'll soon see $45,000 Envoys!

GAM

2002slt

tgp1810,
If you plan on driving in snow, and I believe it snows in Michigan, don't hesitate to get 4WD. You'll never regret it. It will make it easier to unload in a few years, too.

emmis

I recently posted a question on the recirculate setting on the '03 Envoy that now seems to have vaporized. One of the responses was that the manual stated how to keep it on the recirculate setting between starts. I have not been able to find it in the manual. Where is this stated in the manual?

Secondly, I notice that recirculate is only activated when on the manual fan mode when using the upper vents. If the lower vents or the front defroster is used, the recirculate lights blink a few times and then go out. Is this functioning as intended?

Are there any TSB's on this peculiarity?

polarbear6

Hi all, I am working my way through about 1500 posts since my last visit, but I thought I would ask my question since I may miss something. I have lost drivers side heat a couple times. It seemed to happen about an hour into the drive. No heat or defrost on the driver's side. My husband received a kidney transplant in December from one of our sons and we need to drive to INDY twice a week for checkups. Loosing heat at this time of the year is not good and when it also affects the defrost that is really a problem. I hope to get it into the dealer on Tuesday, but want to do my research here first. Can anyone point me in the right direction??

Thanks

Polarbear6

bobbies

I have a 2002 Bravada about 11 months old with 13,000 mi. including two vacation trips from Ohio. (Retired a couple years early in 2001). This site is "wonderful". I have used it to get a few minor things corrected....gasket, slow startup, etc. Many other items not experienced (knock on wood)have not come up...so I have the fixes posted here put in the manual. Being retired, I have a black Bravada and a black GP. Plenty of time to polish. Although my wife has her a-- behind the wheel most of the time, we love it. No problems, rides nice and black with gold package, I get numerous comments. Keep it up folks...real cool site!

megawatt1

Hi, I am in the market for a SUV, I've been reading about the Pilot, Highlander, 4Runner, and the GM 3's.
Sounds like most owners are pleased with any of the above vehicles. I'm just curious about the differences between the GM trio. I like the Envoy the best, but am thinking the Bravada might be the best value, considering the features for the price and the better warranty.
Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Ralph

tidester

Welcome aboard!

I'm sure the "regular" posters here will be able to help you out - it's usually slow on weekends.

I would suggest having your dealer or a good mechanic look at your heating system.

tidester, host

cparise

I have an '02 Envoy XL SLT. I think there are differences between all three triplets as far as std equipment goes and certainly there are styling differences to consider too. My suggestion is to use the gm buypower web site to compare the three vehicles or use another web service (Edmunds might have it) to familiarize yourself with the differences between the three. For example, I was under the impression the Bravada has full time automatic four wheel drive as a brand std feature. Get to know the differences is my suggestion.
Good luck,
Chris

johntr

To those that may not have heard about this TSB, it was released in the Nov issue on GM Techlink:

02-09-40-003; Passenger Seat Shoulder Belt Too Tight or Cinches Up (Replace Passenger Seat Belt Retractor Assembly); 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, EXT, GMC Envoy, XL, Oldsmobile Bravada

I'm taking this to the dealer tomorrow and I'm going to have them check on this one too:

(Oct 2002)
02-08-62-001; Front Fascia Loose (Replace Front Fascia Pencil Braces); 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy, Oldsmobile Bravada built before VIN breakpoint

John

johntr

I've heard people mention noises when driving at highway speeds, this could be a point to talk to your service dept about. Personally, I never heard anything unusual in my 2002 TB.

02-03-09-002; Intermittent Boom, Rumbling Noise and/or Disturbance Heard in Passenger Compartment While Driving at Highway Speeds (Replace Rear Coil Springs); 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy with Rear Coil Springs

obravada

I bought my 2002 Bravada in Nov '01, build date 09/01. I have had only two problems with my SUV, both have been mentioned in previous posts. The side mirror actuators and the discoloration of the center hubs on the wheels. Both problems fixed by dealer. Current mileage just turned 18,000 averaging 17.7 mpg with a combination 70/30 highway/city driving. SUV has every option except rear seat entertainment system. Living in the Northeast does present problems during winter months, had a stone hit my windshield during this week's snowstorm that initially resulted in only a small crack. On Friday I needed to use my defrost to melt the accumulating snow on my windshield, the result was a 3 foot crack appeared across my windshield. Has any one had a similar experience? Overall I have been very happy with the performance and ride of the Bravada. I had previously owned a 96 Blazer, 98 Blazer and a 99 Bravada which I traded in for the 02.

redline65

Well after one week of ownership of an Envoy XL, I only have one suggestion for improvement. A removable second and third row seat would provide a lot more cargo room. Don't some other SUVs have seats that fold and can be removed?

gam2

Be prepared to take a huge depreciation hit on the Bravada. Bravada specific parts may be more difficult to obtain in the future. Other than that, shop price as they are all similar.

GAM

ross1962

>>I've heard people mention noises when driving at highway speeds, this could be a point to talk to your service dept about. Personally, I never heard anything unusual in my 2002 TB.

02-03-09-002; Intermittent Boom, Rumbling Noise and/or Disturbance Heard in Passenger Compartment While Driving at Highway Speeds (Replace Rear Coil Springs); 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy with Rear Coil Springs <<

I have an intermittant boom when going faster than say, 700 mph. This depends of altitude, temperature and humidity. Oh, and I sometimes hear a disturbance in the passenger compartment too, but I think that's my wife screaming at me to slow down.

johntr

YOU would start a panic if I were to see you coming up in my review at 700mph! But I suppose it's like the jetfighters say, "when you see him, it's too late!"

Be sure to flash your highbeams when passing, of course, if you could get up to the speed of light, that wouldn't matter!

st1100v4

Quite a few people mentioned that the right headlight had failed prematurely on their vehicle. My left one is out after about 9 months of use. Plan to have dealer replace it.

tblazed

Congratulations! You are now beginning to average out all the RIGHT low beams that have failed! Since they both get their power from the same source (Pin 4 of the Headlight Driver Module relay) I figured it was only a matter of time before the 80%-on DRL system started taking its toll on the Left lamps too. At $20-25 ea. (plus labor if you are not inclined to do it yourself) they will start getting expensive after the warranty runs out.

gclefton

You may have your dealer check TSB 01-01-38-014 JAN02 Heater - Insufficient Heat To Driver's Feet.

On startup in cold weather, my auto setting channels the heat to the defrost for a while and then circulates. There is also a delay to ensure only warm/hot air is circulated.

crispy2ski

I just bought a 03 Envoy SLE and realized that I don't have a glovebox light. My friend has an 02 SLT and it has a light. Is this a "feature" of the SLE or did someone forget to install it at the factory???

mfullmer

Ever wise, the General decided to axe the glovebox light (and underhood light) for '03. You know how expensive those things can be!!!!!

Can you say - DUUUHHHHHH?

As an accountant I would really liked to have been in the room when that decision was made.

tgp1810

They decided to get rid of both the golvebox light and the light in the hood of the car for 2003 models.

tblazed

You also likely do not have an underhood engine light either. GM cost-cutting at work. (They gotta pay for those incentives somehow) From other posts and what I have seen at a car show yours is "normal".

cmack4

It seems they're going the route of Toyota and Honda and making everything "optional". Come friggin' on though... accessory bulbs being taken out? I guess they were too embarassed to make the glovelight and underhood light $20 options Even it was a first model year, I'm glad I got my 2002 Bravada when I did! There is still some redeeming value for those shopping the 2003's though. It's still cheaper (comparably equipped) then the 4-Runner and MDX/Pilot. You just could have gotten it cheaper with more equipment in 2002!

crispy2ski

Thanks for the responses! I'm going to buy the parts and wire it up myself then.

medolark

Why do polarbears need heat to the feet?

Anyway, I have noticed that an auto setting of about 74 gets me some heat to the feet whereas lower settings generally do not seem to. Of course I live in California and could probably dispense with heater altogether without much pain.

Try cranking setting up a little. If that works, it suggests some small calibration would solve the problem.

For those who have had the TSB fix for this, I ask "what did they do to fix it and what difference do you see?"

Thanks all -

johntr

I have an appt set up for next week for this issue (as well as 3 others). I have turned the temp up to 90 and changed the various mode positions, but no air at all will come out below.

The TSB I saw had a brief description of software upgrade to fix:

02-01-39-005; HVAC System Inoperative for a Drive Cycle, Poor HVAC System Performance in High Ambient Temperatures (Update HVAC Control Module Software); 2002-03 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, EXT, GMC Envoy, XL, Oldsmobile Bravada

Mine has lated more than one drive cycle, it's as if, the baffles do not open to redirect toward the floor.

John

polarbear6

Hey where did my feet(or paws) come into the discussion. I had no heat at any point on the drivers side. Changed the temp and mode comtrol. We will call the dealer today and have them look up the fixes before we bring it in. I am working on my list. We also have the seat belt too tight problem.

Thanks for the info.

PolarBear

tblazed

If you decide to add the missing lights you will still not get the "system" the '02s have unless you figure out how to tap in to the courtesy lamp power circuit.. The BCM controls the lights and will turn them off to prevent battery run-down in case the glove box or hood are left open. Nice feature. I have included here the description of operation how the lighting sytem works.

Quote: "The BCM inadvertent power courtesy lamps supply voltage circuit provides battery positive voltage to all of the interior reading lamps, IP compartment lamp (glove box light), underhood lamp, and both visor vanity mirror lamps. In the event that any of these lamps were to remain illuminated for a period of more than 20 minutes with the ignition switch in the OFF position, the BCM will deactivate the inadvertent power courtesy lamps supply voltage circuit to prevent a total battery discharge condition. Only when the ignition switch is cycled back to the RUN position will the BCM reset the internal timer and reactivate the inadvertent power courtesy lamps supply voltage circuit."

sloth501

After owning my Envoy XL for about 3 weeks now I must say I am very satisfied with it. I have averaged 16.3 mpg over 3 tanks. A little lower than I would have liked but not too bad for probably 40 interstate/60 city driving.

I have had only one problem with the XL. A few days ago, the air bag light stayed on during my drive home from work. However, later on when I started the car, the light did not come on.

Has anybody had a similiar problem?? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I know the manual says to wait until the "change oil" light comes on to change the oil but I was thinking about changing it sometime between now and 1,500 miles to get the break-in oil and any metal filings out of the engine. Any thoughts???

Thanks,
Gary