Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

rye78

The door pannels do come off but there are two screws which have to be taken out first or else you will break the door. First pull off the plate that has the window and door lock buttons on it. Also pull off the molding around the inside door handle. You will see a nut in there that has to be taken off. Then there is another one that hold the inside handle of the door on. Its hard to find but if you feel around that part,(the inside door handle) you will find the nut. once these two are taken off the door panel will pop right off.
  I had my entire radio and speakers redone. I have an alpine cd/mp3 deck with four infinity speakers in the doors and one infinity sub. All run by two alpine amps mounted in the back.

envoyenvy

I am considering an air box modification as many of you have done. Any issue from anyone regarding warranty violation, gas mileage problems, water getting through, or anything else? Does it make a significant difference if I have the K&N filter already?

Thanks, love this forum.

ylab

Envoyenvy:

I made the modification similar to Tim back in September and haven't had any issues with water or other particulates getting to the box. While the engine does seem a bit more willing to rev beyond around 2500-3000 rpms, I haven't noticed any real difference in economy. Provided you don't touch the Mass Airflow Sensor (Hot Wire) the dealer seems to be fine with the change.

There is one small side effect with opening the box and that is there is an increase in engine noise or roar at heavy throttle...especially in the lower rpm band under load. (Like when the a/c compressor is on and you accelerate from a stop up an incline - you'll definitely hear a difference).

Ray

ylab

Anyone else have the driver door 'Pod' die when the dealer tried updating the mirror firmware? Just had my Envoy in for the mirror fix, for the second time, and when the tech tried to update the mirror code into the driver side 'Pod' it went down for the count.

Now until the new 'Pod' arrives (they either don't stock them or didn't have one) I'm stuck with a completely dead driver side door! Without a working 'Pod' the mirrors, window/lock controls (or the lock/window itself), heated seats, dome/overhead lights and alarm don't work. (That includes no keyless entry...the other doors will lock/unlock with the remote, but not the driver's door).

Lets just say if they don't come up with a new 'Pod' in the next day or two, I'm going to start screaming for rental or loaner. Coldest weather in three days and those leather seats are bone chilling w/o the seat heaters.

Ray

envoy_xl_in_pa

ylab -

Don't let your dealer continue to reprogram those mirror chips. That is nothing but a temporary fix. I had the programming done twice, prior to finding out about the mirror actuator TSB from this group. I had the new actuators installed, and the problem went away for good. It was a twenty minute fix, once the parts came in - they were on order for two weeks.

Thanks to this group for letting me know about the TSB. Why the dealers don't make habits of checking these TSBs is beyond me!

ylab

Actually the dealer did replace the actuators back in May, which seemed to fix the problem for a while. They claim GM had a bad batch of actuators and that the full fixed included a firmware flash, which they claimed wasn't done the first time around.

A buddy of mine has now had two sets of actuators in his Envoy and the 'PODs' flashed twice between the first (May) and second replacement actuators (Nov)....his finally seems fixed.

Ray

gam2

Having owned a Subie, I can say that their AWD is great in most onroad situations. It was seamless in operation, unlike the Triplets. Offroad however, the Subie is at a disadvatage. The huge front and rear overhangs limit the approach and departure angles, thus limiting its offroad ability. There were several trails I couldn't go on in my Outback for fear of ripping off the facias/bumpers. These were some fairly easy trails too. Different vehicles, really.

GAM

twinrotts

Come on gang,why are we even wasting any energy discussing the prowess of the Subies capability to a triplet. They were never intended to be in the same class. I happen to own a Subie, a Passat 4Motion and a TB and they are all very good at what they were designed to do.
They are all competent on dry pavement. They all have advantages over std rear or front drive only vehicles in bad weather, but that's where the comparisons stop. A Subie or Passat won't tow nor do very well off road. A Subie or Triplet will not cruise the Autobon like the Passat. Even the WRX with its best HP to weight ratio next to a Porche will not cruise like a Passat. And neither the triplet nor the Passat will have a low operating cost and reliability of the Subie

will50

In the past 18 months the dealer has replaced the secondary air pump in my 2001 Bravada eight times. The last pump only took one week to seize up. Does anyone know if there is a permanent fix for this?

I talked with Olds customer service today at the suggestion of the dealer. It was less than a rewarding experience.

Every time the pump goes out there are eye stinging fumes and a very strong burning smell.

bravadajon

It's a Subaru...due 2005.

Just received a service satisfaction survey from the 2002 Bravada I sold several months ago...it is back in the shop again...I sent back the form with the correction.

2002slt

OK, but can it tow anything?

richardcoulson

I have both a trailblazer and a jeep liberty. The jeep has a much better awd than the tb. The jeep must use some sort of viscous coupling system. However, most people I know that go 4 wheeling usually use 4hi or 4lo part time. This is the best way to guarantee you get traction to the front and back. The big draw back of part time is that you will tear up the transfer case driving it on dry pavement and get binding during turns. Both the jeep and tb have awd, 4hi and 4lo. While I am not crazy about the awd on my tb, the 4hi seems to work qutie well.

scottc454

I'm quite certain there's no viscous coupling in the Liberty. Actually, neither that nor the TB have true AWD. They're both auto 4WD systems that detect slippage then engage 4WD as needed. When the systems engage 4WD, it's just like being in 4Hi - the axles are locked together.

Now, the million dollar question is whether the Bravada has true AWD or auto 4WD like the other triplets. I've heard strong opinions on both sides. If it's just auto 4WD, that's kind of a bummer.

envoydrives

After an hour or so of highway driving, the interior and exterior lights flicker slightly on my envoy, this flickering continues for a few minutes and dosent come back for another hour or so. If i leave my vehicle in the garage for more than 2 or 3 nights, i come back to a vehicle that wont start. Dealership says charging system and battery are fine. Just wondering if any other triplet owners have had to invest in jumper cables and an extra vehicle to start their vehicle when they need to use it. Any ideas appreciated.

aadland

THEey're bAAaackkkk!

Had them fixed per the TSB 6 months ago or so. They are now "unfixed." Anybody else have the problem return? Anybody have them fixed a second time? Any hopes they'll ever exorcise the demons that live within these things?

I'm just hoping this won't be a "twice a year routine." Of all the stupid things...the mirrors on our '49 Chevy Cattle Truck don't move unless you move them! Ain't technology a wonderful thing?

aviatorbob1

I too had the drivers door POD fail on my 2002 Envoy. Happened only a few miles from the dealer. He had none in stock and stated 2-3 day wait for replacement. I happened to eye a new Envoy on the lot (same color POD) and asked him to make the swap to which he agreeded to. This one is OK so far..............4 months. I thought I was the only one with this problem.

envoyowner

Yes, I also had the wandering mirrors fixed and about 3 months later, the problem returned (driver's side only). Had the modulator replaced again. For the most part, seems OK. But, occasionally on startup, I still notice one or both of the mirrors wander.
Would be interested to hear of your fix and long-term result. Good luck!

macman246

Sounds like a bad alternator, but who knows? Maybe just another software glitch? Parasitic battery drain flag set to True?

My dealer installed the Vehicle Data Recorder in my Envoy to help diagnose the stall/near-stall condition I've been experiencing. Parked it overnight in the garage, next morning battery was completely dead. Not sure if the VDR or the new lift gate module caused the problem.

envoy_xl_in_pa

I know many of you have experienced the airbag light illuminated on the dashboard. This morning, it happened to my wife on her way to work. She let the truck sit for a few hours, and when she restarted it, the light was "magically" out. Did anyone ever get a permanent fix for this thing? I have no confidence in the airbag system, if this intermittent glitch is present. She didn't think to call OnStar, but based on my past experience with them, they would have told her the standard GM line of "we can not see a problem at this time".

This board seems to be slowing down - are the triplets finally starting to behave, or are people just finally fed up?

tidester

This board seems to be slowing down - are the triplets finally starting to behave, or are people just finally fed up?

I think some people had a 4-day weekend and were out enjoying their triplets! :-)

tidester, host

jadavisnc

My Bravada is visiting the dealer this week for several of the annoying issues we all experience.
They are telling me that the front cover fix (bracket to tighten up the fit) is not available.
Can somebody provide more details on this TSB?

jadavisnc

I located the TSB and part numbers through a search. Called the dealer and they stated they are aware of the TSB but the parts are not available!
Any help out there on how to approach this would be appreciated. Finding another dealer is not really a good option in my area and I'm not sure that would help.
They are taking care of everything else without questions (license gasket, aux power cover, air bag light, etc.).

nuyorkah

>I located the TSB and part numbers through a search. Called the dealer >and they stated they are aware of the TSB but the parts are not >available!

If your talking about TSB 02-08-62-001
and PN# 15184435 and 15184434 which are Braces
there are literally hundreds of these available at
GM's PDC (Parts Distribution Centers). If these are
your part numbers call the Parts Department directly
and ask them to check availibity.
If you are talking about a different TSB post the PN#'s.

ephodzen

You can be sure that no one has designed a vehicle to shut down the engine, intentionally, at any speed. There are numerous reasons that it is possible for the engine to stall at speed (fuel starvation for example). Loosing electrical power to the engine could cause a stall and result in spurious fault indications.

My only point with this post is to assure you that GM did not design a vehicle to shut down due to a simple fault.

ephodzen

I have an 03 ENVOY 4WD. Since the snow has come I have plenty of experience with the Envoy A4WD system. I notice very little delay in engagement of the 4WD. There is definitely some jerk during the initial engagement. I don't find this problematic at all. In fact I can say that the Envoy snow performance is far better than my last AWD vehicle. The AWD had way to much front bias and as a result the front could spin when the rear was not. Granted, some are better than others.

In some of the GM promo material I notice a claim that the 03 models have Improved automatic 4 wheel drive engagement" so maybe there was an upgrade in this area.

Also, one of the big benefits of the A4WD system is reduced engine load (fuel econ) when the system is not engaged. I'm sure that for most of us this is 99.99....% of the time.

ficuss

ephodzen, are you in a position to assure us that GM has not programmed the tripletts to shut down if a serious fault is detected, or is this your opinion.
 Is it possible that OnStar could be the culprit with these reported stalls. They can shut down a vehicle equiped with their service. A glitch with the OnStar network could very easily shut down all OnStar equiped cars at once. Think about that.
And of course, calling OnStar would get you the stock answer of no fault seen with your car.
 Tblazed, lets get to work on this.

Frank

cparise

My remote starter is a Pursuit Series Model PR0-9175FT4. On taking the time to read the manual I found that it has lots of features I didn't even know I had. For instance a warm-up mode that starts the engine every 2-4 hours for a 48 hour period. I also didn't know how to shut off the engine after accidentally starting it (can happen if keys are in your pocket and buttons get pressed by chance) except by climbing in and inserting the key and then turning the ignition off. Now after reading the manual I know exactly what to do.
Maybe you can check out the Pursuit website for pricing and features if you want to replace your Viper. If you paid $99 that sounds like a good price because I paid 5 times that for what I have but it appears to be feature rich. I'll practice with it and let you know. Might sound crazy but the remote start is one of the better accessories I've ever purchased. Cool in summer, warmer in winter, and the engine oil is always well circulated before driving away without wasting time.
Chris

quickdtoo

The 2 transfer cases involved are the NVG 126 (Bravada) and NVG 226 (Envoy/Tb). The NVG 126 is a single speed t-case(no low range) with no 2 wheel Drive option, only A4wd, the same operating mechanicals as the NVG 226 in the A4wd mode choice but with slightly different torque bias. Where the NVG 226 provides 0-5 lb/ft of clutch torque to the front drive shaft, the NVG 126 only provides 0-62 lb/inch(no typo) of torque to the front drive shaft. Both of these torque figures are for speeds below 20 mph(32 km/h for you northerners). Above 20 mph the torque applied is predetermined by computer controls and both drive shafts (front and rear) are engaged at all times. The torque biasing is done through a wet clutch(and the notorious T-case Motor/Encoder) and easy vehicle tuning through software calibration which allows more features such as flexible adapt ready position(preset) and clutch pre-load torque levels. I suspect that the jerk and noise/clunk that folks are feeling/hearing when they think the front axle engages, is actually the rear axle locking up when one wheel is spinning. Mine locks up with a real thump when one wheel is spinning in 2 wheel hi, still does it in A4wd. The specs and info here are from the factory service manual.

hth, Tim

randpall3863

Before getting my 2003 EXT Trailblazer LT, I checked and drove a 2002 Explorer and 2003 Pilot. All were V6's with 3rd row seats.

  The V6 Explorer lacked sufficient power. The 2003 Pilot needs a lot of improvements. And the V6 EXT trailblazer LT was just right. It is with 4WD. It has great power! It has plenty of cargo and seating room. It has a DVD Entertainment System. It is handy for long trips.

  It has On Star. This comes in handy in case of an emergency. The only thing I found wrong with it is in the owner's manual.

  The EXT Trailblazer is equipped with the 275-h.p. 4200 Series Vortec V6. What GM neglected to include in the owner's manual is, it is a high performance engine. So, it recommends only using regular unleaded.

  I tried the 87 and 89 octane first. It had insufficient power and poor gas mileage. So, I tried the 93 octane. Both the gas mileage and power improved. It handles well on winter roads.

  It is an SUV I highly recommend. It has more cargo room than the Explorer or Pilot. Its maximum towing capacity is 5800 lbs. It is plenty for me. And it has both CD and cassette.

  It has more features than I have time to elaborate on. And it rides smooth. It is the SUV of the present and future.

  For more horsepower and towing capacity, it is available with an optional 5300 Series Vortec V8. It has 290 h.p. It is the SUV of today and tomorrow. I hope this helps.

zapcat

I hate to break this to you but you don't have a V6.

scottc454

Also, there's no point in using 93 octane. The octane number is merely a fuel's resistance to knocking. A higher number simply means its less explosive, something not enough people understand.

You can get more power out of a higher number because you can compress it more without it detonating. But if the engine isn't designed for it, there's no power benefit. You can get better gas mileage, but not nearly enough to justify the added cost.

rgrossman

Started my 2002 Bravada this morning and the radio did not work. I have the upgraded Bose system. The display worked fine and showed that station and volume settings but no sound from speakers. The last couple of days I have noticed a distinct pop come from the speakers when I turned the key to start the car.

I suspected that a fuse had blown but that appears not to be the case. I checked both the radio fuse and the AMP fuse. I guess it could be another fuse but the acronyms in the manual are a little cryptic and I didn't want to waste my time pulling all the darn fuses in 15 degree weather in my office parking lot. Has anyone had a problem with the amp just having a meltdown and failing completely?

redline65

randpall3863 - Glad you are enjoying your new Trailblazer EXT. My wife and I got a 2003 Envoy XL SLT 4 weeks ago. We are loving ours too. Haven't had any problems with it so far, and haven't noticed any defects either. Initial quality seems excellent. By the way, Zapcat means you have an inline-6 engine, not a V6. We have been using 87 octane in ours, and have been averaging around 18 mpg in mixed city/highway driving. I'm really happy with the engine break-in gas mileage. I expected to get only about 12 or 13 mpg during break-in.

archie34

Msg. 9752 by envoy_xl_in_pa

I also have had the air bag light stay on 3 times in my '02 TB in the past year. By just turning the TB off and starting again, the light goes off. The last time it came on (last week), I called OnStar and they gave me a diagnostic code of U1088 "Vehicle data network" and suggested that I take it to the dealer at my convenience. As long as it resets itself,I will have the dealer look at it the next time I am in for other service.

immoe

My 2002 Envoy with Bose system has started with the distinct pop when I start the vehicle. This condition started yesterday when the temp here in RI was hovering near zero.

The vehicle has mostly trouble free except for an air bag assembly replacement. There is no doubt the I would make the same purchase again.

Great sales and service at Paul Masse Gmc.

redline65

Have you guys seen the new rebates? $4000 on the Envoy XL and TB EXT. $3000 on the Envoy and TB. These are in the South Central region and are good on 2003 models thru 2/28. Wishing I would have waited an extra month, but that always seems to happen to me.

redline65

Oops, I think those rebates may only be available under the GM new vehicle purchase plan (GMS option). I checked GMC.com and they have different figures. Forget you read my post. :-)

polarbear6

I now have the passenger seat belt replaced and the license gasket. New problem is the rear wiper. Wiper works when knob is turned clockwise, but it will not turn for a single wipe. Also the washer button does not work. No washer action, no wiper movement when the button is pushed. Washer fluid is full. The button feels like there is no resistance when pushed, so we feel that is where the problem is. I will try to take it in as soon as I can work it into our schedule. Meanwhile it is Windex and paper towels in the car.

st1100v4

The dealer where I bought my '02 Bravada is selling all Bravadas for $7700 off the MSRP. I recently received in the mail an additional $1000 to add to the $2500 I have accumulated on my GM card. $11,200 off of MSRP. Maybe I should buy one as a spare!

kgbkahnk

geez, as long as you're in a buying mood, how 'bout buying *me* one as a spare??? :-)

rgrossman

Thanks for the input immoe. I'm outside of Boston and we've obviously had similar temperatures here as well. I was thinking the problem could be temperature related and your comment is more evidence that could be the case. Oddly enough, when I went out to the bank at 2:00 this afternoon, the radio once again started working (maybe because the temperature warmed up a bit). I also got the speaker pop again. Very weird although it is wicked cold.

krollman

I have a 2002 Envoy SLT. Three times my radio has come on (lit up and had control function) but no sound. Each time, I shut off the radio, shut off the engine, restarted each, but still didn't work. And each time I removed and replaced the fuse for the amplifier with the same fuse and it solved the problem. The service tech (by no means a rocket scientist)thought that the amp computer had to "reboot." Lousy explanation, I know. The fuses are under the drivers side rear seat.

ficuss

krollman, have you checked if your OnStar is possibly stuck on. OnStar mutes the radio audio so it can send its audio through the radio amp. Disconnecting and reconnecting the fuse would then reset the mute condition. Your service tech may not be a rocket scientist, but he may be looking in the right direction. Look at the OnStar indicator the next time you loose radio audio. Let the service tech know if it is on.

Frank

ephodzen

"are you in a position to assure us that GM has not programmed the tripletts to shut down if a serious fault is detected, or is this your opinion."

I am in a position state this.

Please note I said "You can be sure that no one has designed a vehicle to shut down the engine, intentionally, at any speed."

The key word here is "intentionally". There is always a possibility of an unintentionally shutdown due to faulty logic but I would consider this far less probable then other causes (loss of electrical power, fuel supply, etc)

ficuss

I hope not. The logic (software) in any car be it a triplett or any make must be fully tested taking all possible scenarios into account. Putting a car with possible faulty logic on the roads is unacceptable. GM and others have been in this business too long to use that as an excuse. I can accept interference or faulty parts as reasons for problems, but not faulty software. We owners should not be Beta testers.

Frank

steveb24

I have a 2002 Gmc envoy slt. I was driving last week and started to notice a whisle or bird chirping noise at 40 MPH. The noise isn't during idle or high idle just while in drive today it started to make the boise at 30 mph? and idea's what it can be Of couse dealer can never duplicate problems in a new car :-) and second while driving on an emergency call i was doing 75+ MPh i hera wind noise coming into the car from passager door side " is it a bad seal or door has to be pulled in at dealer?

Thank you any help would be appreciated.
Steven

pete2002

I do not want to belittle this problem but after being in the software and electrical business, I doubt this is a software issue. If it were a software issue, you would have thousands of these problems reported daily. Interference such as line surges, electrostatic and electromagnetic interference thats another story. I would even go as far as stating there might be some network contention at some periods of operation that causes the system to abend. These types of problems are very difficult to find or even replicate in test environments because there are so many permutations that need to be accounted for. Since this is the first model year, we are in a way beta testers per se and this is why buyers should beware, especially with the sophistication of these vehicles. If you think this is concerning, just wait till these vehicles start deteriorating, technicians will have a field day finding all the faults on your time and I sincerely doubt your local shop mechanics will have the resources or knowledge to resolve these things.

ficuss

Well said Pete2002. I have been beating this drum for over a year now. I have long believed this car is too technical in some ways. Being a technician all my life helped me appreciate the inovations presented by the tripletts. At the same time, I quickly realized the importance of buying an extended warranty from GM. When the car begins to deteriorate, they will pay for the repair, not me. I will certainly sell it before 75k miles.

Frank

cwamsley

Where did you find this info. I'm in Ohio and GMS and am looking at Envoys. Can you confirm what the incentives are here. Last night they said $2000 but may have not had the up to date info.

redline65

cwamsley - I got the incentives from http://www.gmfamilyfirst.com/. However, now it looks like the site is screwed up because it is displaying the GM Supplier Discount incentives, which are $3000/$2000 for the XL, EXT / Envoy, TB. When I looked yesterday it was $4000/$3000 for GM New Vehicle Purchase program.