Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

krystalg

Hi there-

I have a question that hopefully someone out there can help me with. I have an 03 Bravada with Smarttrek and it snowed pretty deep here in northern va over the last weekend. I come out side to find out that only my rear wheels are spinning so i was totally stranded (thank god i was home). My husband comes out to drive his Trail Blazer only to find out that his rear wheels are the only ones spinning also. He tried A4WD, 4 wheel high and 4 wheel low and only the rear was pulling. I know its time to probably take them both to the dealership but can any one tell me what can possibly be the problem. My Bravada 4wheel drive kicks in automatically and its just not working.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Krystal

noller2g

I have 15,000 or so miles on my '02 Bravada now, and have had it for about 15 months or so. Beautiful deep red, almost like a ruby.

Problems were few, fit and finish are the best I've had in a new car (and I'v had lots of new cars). I was never unhappy with my purchase price nor the after the sale service at the dealer.

I have a 2WD, with sunroof and all the rest of the trimmings. No aftermarket accessories, except WalMart mud flaps ($12).

I pull a lightweight trailer with a 800 lb motorcycle on it all over Colorado mountains, with no problems.

Mirrors do what they want, so I just ignore them and set them when I drive.

Heated seats get too hot use use more than a few minutes.

Bose stereo is awsome, no DVD system.

Had a warning light come on, "service engine soon" and "reduce power" lights. Called OnStar, they called my local dealer who said bring it right in. They gave me a loaner, then called to let me know it was the accelerator foot pedal position sensor (drive-by-wire) and had one overnighted to them. Back on the road in less than 24 hours.

I get pretty much 15 mpg around town (small town, now fast expressways to speak of) and 18-19 on the highway (even pulling my bike on a trailer).

I use Mobil One, change the oil when the computer suggests. I then sent in the oil to Blackstone labs and they said it was still good. About 10,000 miles. Will do it again that way. I posted the results of my last oil sample test to this board (and not one person responded or replied).

My only complaint, and it is really my son's complaint, is the back seat is not comfortable for a 14 year old boy, about 180 lbs, and nearly 6 feet tall. No adjustment either. Sure wish we had reclining captains chairs.

I like everything about the Bravada, so I will keep it for now. I stopped reading these board due to all the nit-picking and noise-problems.

If I were to trade, it would be for a Denali, and that's too much $$ for me, and too poor gas mileage.

greg in wichita
greg@noller.net

mfullmer

Thats great that you are loving your Bravada. You don't have to worry about the mirrors anymore since there is now a fix for them. Next time you are at your dealer you should have them order the parts.

mfullmer

I understand what all of you stated about how the AWD works in the Bravada. I was just discouraged that I've never felt as "out of control" in the snow/ice as I did in that vehicle. It made me a bit dissappointed for the vehicle when I garaged it and took the STS instead.

Before the Bravada I had a '99 Jimmy, '97 Tahoe, '95 Blazer - All with 4WD that worked great.

scottc454

I use A4WD a lot on my TB and it's really not too bad. I'd figure the Bravada's AWD would at least be better than that. Besides, it's braking that's the real problem with snow.

blrmkr

I had a similar situation last year w/ the ABS + Emergency Brake + Service 4WD lights. The dealer 1st repaired a chaffed wire, but the same lights illuminated on my drive home from the dealer. The replacement of my ignition switch ultimately solved the problem.

cmack4

Most modern 4WD/AWD systems are up to the task when it comes to snow and ice... the real problem for any vehicle in inclement weather is braking.

cmack4

How is it that you have an '03 Bravada in this post krystalg Feb 19, 2003 10:06am , and your husband has a TB... both complaining about problems!

yet krystalg "Isuzu Trooper" Nov 18, 2002 8:14am here, you have an '02 Trooper Limited and your husband has an Envoy?... not to mention you are ripping on the Ascender as being identical to the Triplets.

BTW, these aren't the only posts... Do you really have that much free time on your hands that you feel you need to fabricate posts just to flame owners of particular vehicles?

2yearleaseonly

Just getting them able to recreate the problem is 1/2 the battle. He test drove it with me and said lets try the balancing first. He did it as a first step and will now call GMC for the next step since this didn't aleviate the problem. The TSB #03-04-17-002 for the drive shaft referred to here on the board is for axles with 4.10 gears and that whine from the rear end. Stay tuned as the dealer & GMC have to tough out the vibrating pedal mystery. Stay tuned!

2002slt

cmack4,
She is also single, according to her bio, which makes it tough to have a husband.

scottc454

Probably an imaginary husband along with her (probably his) many imaginary vehicles.
There's some real nuts out there I tell ya.

tidester

... get back on topic and drop the personal slings and arrows.

tidester, host

elliot69

Point is another name for a percentage. ie: 10 points off means 10% off. Good luck and good decision!!!!!!! Elliot

sostrouble

About Onstar making me give my credit card information to them before they would give the police the information, they now admit that I had paid the bill in full back in June, it was their mistake. So had my envoy been recover 1/2 hour earlier, would it have hit several cars and been damaged as bad. Right now it's at $5,100 (back bumper, new tailgate and rear passenger quarter panel) and still counting. I going to the dealer tomorrow to go over all the other damages inside and out.

One good point, the guy that stole my envoy had cut the cable for onstar at the antenna thinking that it would not work, boy was he wrong. It still worked.

Now I think onstar owes me more than the 3 free months they have offered.

By the way the guy was charged with Robbery and Assault so far, with more charges pending in the city.

My insurance company got a Trailbrazer for me to drive while we decide what happens to my envoy. Sorry Trailbrazer owners but I prefer the Auto-ride air shocks in the rear, ride is much smoother on bumpy roads.

Can't decide if I want my envoy back with all the damage and how they drove it. But if I don't keep it, I will buy another envoy.

Debbie

2yearleaseonly

Im glad you are safe, what an experience. Having said that, I hate my Onstar and feel its way way over priced. I was stuck getting the system since I bought off the lot and have refused to use it even though I have it free for the first year. They had a salesman call me to get me to buy additional services and told him its not even worth 1/2 of 13 dollars a month they charge. Good riddance to them when it expires.

If you are going to buy a new Envoy, get one with a limited slip differential, you wont regret it come the inevitable next snow storm.

krystalg

Good Morning-

First of all I did have a Trooper didnt like the way it drove after driving my husband's Envoy...He now currently have an TB because the Envoy was switched under GM for staying in the shop at least 2 days every other week for squeaks and shifting problems. As far as my BIO I truly didnt think anything of it to update it, but i see I should...and As far as vehicles...if you really want to investigate go to the Lincoln board...I have also owned a LS...Chrysler 300M...Chrysler Cirrus...and several other vehicles....I was merely looking for advice here not personal comments of what i do or do not have....BUT if I must prove myself to you sir, then I will truly send you a free of charge copy of my credit report which verifies what i have and have not owned. Like i said, I was here looking for advice on my vehicle not to be put down or looked at as a liar...and if you know anything about the DC, MD, VA...area one dealership sales several different brands of cars so the work is not hard to get out of one into another. and currently married (dec 7 02)...and the trooper was traded in late november in Silver Springs Maryland at Herb Gordon Olds....

Maybe if you are really interested you can give them a call and have them look me up to see what I drive since that is more important to you then answering a question regarding AWD.

And for the record, my engine light came on today at 3100 miles and will not go off...at this rate I will be at another dealership to trade it, so I will keep you posted sir as to what i purchase next if anything..

To everyone else, thanks for your input to my question and to you sir.. i hope next time someone is asking a question regarding a vehicle your response is to the vehicle not diggin into someone's past that you have no clue about.

condoriole

"Sorry Trailbrazer owners but I prefer the Auto-ride air shocks in the rear, ride is much smoother on bumpy roads."

That's OK. We prefer not stalling in the middle of intersections but I'll bet the ride is smooth when the truck is actually running.

I'm just playing!

hardhawk

My dealer replaced the ECAS sensors but that did not lower the rear end and my headlights are still too low in my opinion. I know that the only adjustment for the headlights is vertical, which is all I need as the horizontal placement is fine. My question to everyone is, where are the Envoy's headlight height adjustments, what do they look like, and how do they work(do they adjust both high & low beams at once?)? Since I cannot get the light problem fixed by others, I am willing to adjust them myself. I just need to know how do do it. If anyone has made this adjustment on his/her Envoy, please let me know how so I can proceed. I am tired of being able to drive with my brights on all the time and not get flashed because the lights are way too low, on both dim and bright. Thanks in advance for any tips anyone can offer.

gclefton

The Envoy headlight adjustment is very simple and only requires a 1/4" socket with an extension. Access is from the engine compartment to white nylon adjusters that are shaped somewhat as a star when viewed from above. The low beam projection has basically a horizontal top shape when projected on a surface, so changes are easy to monitor/measure. The thread pattern in the adjusters is very fine, so it takes a few turns to see results. I adjusted, tested on the road, adjusted, tested on the road, and adjusted until I was pleased with the results and didn't blind oncoming traffic. What a difference in driving at night!

blrmkr

I just got back from buying an OEM rear wiper blade at the dealer. Unfortunately, the wiper still doesn't clean off much of the window when there is water on it. Has anyone else noticed this problem? I have a feeling that the wiper arm isn't applying as much force to the window as it needs to, thereby reducing the wipe quality. BTW, I have a TB that was built 03/07/01.

condoriole

Is it water or Ice? I've had similar problems in my TB but it gets better when the window warms up.

rye78

I am also having the same trouble with my 2002 LS TB. My rear wiper cleans off the window on the sides but not in the middle. It appears that the window is curved more there and the blade is just not touching the glass.
I have 22,000 miles on the truck and I really have no serious complaints about it. If all I have to deal with is a partially defective rear wiper system. I'll take it!

2k_impala_ls

In Schenectady, NY, (upstate outside Albany)last week a man was murdered and they took his 2002 Bavada. The police tracked it to Tyler, Texas and they caught the killers. I guess the Bravada solved this murder mystery.

rye78

Does anyone know if a lift kit for the TB will be made soon? I know they already have the lowering kits for them. Just wondering if anyone has heard anything or seen anything on the internet about it?

quickdtoo

See previous message for more info... nuyorkah Feb 16, 2003 2:16pm

ficuss

It seems the rear window wiper arm is not articulate enough at the joint nearest the wiper stem. My TB rear wiper is doing the same thing as others have posted. The wiper arm is too stiff to conform to the window. I will try applying a little WD40 to the joint to see if it loosens it enough to work better. I'll post results.

Frank

2002slt

I had the same problem with mine after a brief snowstorm. I was too lazy to scrape the rear window and just used the wiper to clear it. That caused the wiper to be mis-aligned. It wouldn't seat itself back in its catch when turned off. Afterwards, only the outside portions of the window were being cleaned. It took a couple of tries, but I was finally able to get it to realign, by force, and it now works fine. I blame it on a poor design of the spring mechanism.

giddens_john

As a side note, assuming you have the time or even care, I would try to get the dealer that replaced your ECAS sensors to fix your Envoy correctly. The rear of your vehicle shouldn't be jacked up too high. I personally don't know what the correct position should be, nor do I know how to check this. I would start by going to your dealer, parking your Envoy next to a matching Envoy. Have them start up the matching Envoy, start up yours, and visually compare them. This way the ECAS would be turned on and inflated on both vehicles.You could even bring a tape measure and check the difference between the two. I would probably measure the rear bumper height, and maybe the distance between the top of the rear tires and their corresponding fender flares. If there's a noticeable difference between the two, drag out the service dept. manager and show them, then make the dealer readjust your Envoy. Then make them adjust the headlight's for you also. There's no excuse for a dealer's service dept. to do a mediocre job at fixing your vehicle's ECAS. I would consider making sure your ride height and headlight adjustment are equal to a new Envoy part of the equation when replacing the ECAS components. If they give you any grief, get the dealer's head manager involved.

Sorry if the following is going off the deep end on the rant dept. but my personal philosophy is, if your not happy with the service you receive somewhere, make your self be heard by those who run the business till they make you happy. Even if it takes chewing your way up to the corporate level to get satisfaction. So far I've never been dissatisfied with the results, ranging from free meals to managers bowing down before my god like complaining. You wouldn't happen to live near Houston would you? I'd love to handle this for you, especially if it took getting the management involved! :') Someone's going to have to kick the soap box out from under me.

I would also recommend you take a look at this headlight glare brochure that goes over do-it yourself headlight adjustment. Not to be preachy but if you aim them too high you'll blind your fellow drivers. In fact proper headlight adjustment might still seem like their aimed too low. I thought they still seemed too low myself, but I personally don't want to blind oncoming drivers on my frequent trips down Texas farm to market roads which are often two lane roads with stripes down the middle with 70 M.P.H. speed limits. If you look at other car's headlight aim at night you should see that they seem to hit the road about 10-12 feet in front of them so that's the norm I believe.

P.S. To those who saw this post before it got deleted.

I apologize for my profanity, it was not intended to offending. Just irks me when a service dept. starts a job and quits half way.

blrmkr

A co-worker mentioned the same thing that ficuss did - apply a little WD40 to the joint. All I could find around the house was Teflon spray, so I used that instead of WD40. It took a lot of moving the joint back and forth to work the spray down in the joint, but the effort was worth it. The difference is amazing!

aldan93

Simple solution get a smaller winter wiper blade, they are more flexible, softer rubber!

ficuss

The problem is not with the blade, it is the first joint where the wiper arm is joined to the wiper motor shaft. The joint gets very tight and the whole arm doesn't flex toward the glass. Try pulling the arm away from the glass and see if it springs back toward the glass when released. If it doesn't spring back, WD40 or a similar product applied to the joint will loosen this joint and restore wiper contact with the glass.

 No, I don't sell WD40 or any similar product.

Frank

jay_24

I'm looking into getting a trailbalzer or similar car/truck/van. My #1 need is to have room for 3 kids (in car seats/booster seats) and second to tow a 2000lb camper...

Can you fit three child seats across the back seat or do I need to look at the EXT? I would rather not try buckling a kid in the 3rd row everytime we go across town.

Of the troubles posted, they all (most?) seem to be with 2002 trailblazers. How are the 2003s? Do they have the bugs worked out?

I had a 91 s-15 jimmy (182k miles), before buying a Subie Outback. The trailblazer is to replace a Plymouth Grand Caravan which can't carry three across in either back seat....

--jay

2yearleaseonly

Jay, get the GMC Envoy, its a much more attractive style and package. Nicer than the Caravan any day and much nicer than Trailblazer. One man's opinion

ficuss

Remember, with 3 kids in the back seat( even if they fit), you won't have much room to carry much camping gear in the back of the T B, or Envoy for that matter. The kids will grow faster than you think and the T B won't. When we had 3 little kids and went camping, we had a Full size Ford Econoline with seating for 8, and plenty of room for gear. If you don't need 4wd, consider the Ford. You won't regret it. I still have a full size Ford van (my third), and it gets better mileage than my T B. With the 31 gal. tank, I can drive over 450 miles city and highway combined, and still not be riding on fumes. Measure the lenght of the van, you will be surprised at how close to the T B the van is in length, and it fits in my garage. If the van had 4wd, I wouldn't have the T B.

Frank

nuyorkah

"My dealership wants me to leave my TB overnight. I would like to avoid this, as I have a 5-month old daughter and don't want to have to bother with putting her car seat in a rental. I didn't think it was such a big deal."

If you are talking about the fix for the loose front fascia TSB 02-08-62-001. GM is only paying
the Tech 0.3hr to do the job. So overnight does seem a bit much. Talk to the Service Manager.

mookie14

the tblazer reliability is poor now they test all their cars and trucks at their facility. now im wondering how do they predict what is and what is not? hell toyota is not infinite. i wonder do they test them also. so do you take their word to the bank or say heck with them. or what or do your maintenance and pray????

jrc346

As a subscriber, user, and long time reader the magazine has come in handy for many purchases around the house including the cars. Every year I get a questionnaire in the mail asking me if I have had any problems with my appliances, electronic equipment, lawn equipment etc. When it comes the the questions concerning cars the questions are a little more detailed. They ask if you have had an electrical problem, engine, or transmition problem, etc. and then ask you to rate the severity of that problem in a small scale. I think it's 1-5 with 5 being the worst. Then the subscribers are to send the questionnaire back into Consumers Union and there they compile the data to get the reliability ratings. However, it seems that there is a moderate margin for error when it comes to automobiles. For instance if a car is perceived to be reliable because of its make (i.e. Toyota, Honda) then people are less likely to write that they had a serious problem (so they would make 1 instead of 5). Or if a person who owns a vehicle for any make has a serious problem and the dealer does a really good job taking care of the problem and the owners of the vehicle are really satisfied then they are also less likely to write down the problem as a 5 instead of a 1. If people have a bad experience with service they are more likely to put down a 5 and so on. However that is just one problem. Another one that seems to be common is that vehicles that have had a bad component installed and it shows in Consumer Reports's reliability charts, then it will most likely take years for that bad component to get better in the charts even though the car company may have remedied the problem. So yes there are problems with CR's ratings but people still use them. I do because I figure the margin for error is probably about one of those marks (Full Red, Half Red, Clear, Half Black, Full Black with the latter being worst) either direction. I so apologize if I got the scale wrong (1-5). It has been a year since I have done the survey because this years got lost in our mail pile... From what I have been reading on this board the TB, Envoy, Bravada, aren't experiencing as many problems as the CR would suggest.
TB and Envoy -116% Full Black spot
Bravada -191% Full Black spot
I think that most people will agree that they aren't having this many problems. It seems pretty common for people to have no problems at all. So to answer your question Mookie...I don't know what to think of CR. Sometimes they are right and others they are dead wrong. Anyway, enjoy your weekend!

redline65

I think CR also may be basing the "predicted reliability" of the TB/Envoy/Bravada on the last generation of the Blazer/Jimmy/Bravada, which was pretty poor. I have to wonder if they know this is an entirely new vehicle. And since the surveys are usually sent out around the March/April timeframe, there would not have been too many owners as of Spring 2002. I think they probably should have used "new" for the predicted reliability for the triplets until the results of the survey this year. Just my opinion.

food4kp

I have an '01 Envoy (30k). Just recently, I noticed that the air suspension would kick in every time after I started my car (as evidenced by that "hissing" sound in the rear compartment), and periodically thereafter about once or twice in my daily one hour commute. As far as I'm concerned, I don't recall hearing the air suspension work this frequently prior to 30k. F.Y.I, this comes just after my 30k service. Is this normal? Could those GMC technicians have unintentionally altered something? Is it possible that there could be some sort of air leakage? Any advice would be quite helpful. Thanks.

bobbies

Hi group...I noticed the clear seal flaking off the center ring on my polished wheels on '02 Bravada. Wheel areas are OK. Anyone else experience this and if so, did you go after replacement via warranty??

jrc346

I thought for a second that you might be right with CR combining the reliability ratings for the old Blazer, Bravada, and Jimmy, with the triplets, but when I checked they have separate ratings. They (the old style Blazers) are at -88% reliability. The shame of it all is, that it may take years for the TB, Envoy, and Bravada reliability to improve because of how CR does its ratings. From the look of things on this board, problems have been far and few between with the 2003 models so those bad ratings may be entirely unfair.

cebteb

I to have been a long time subscriber, user, and reader of the magazine. I use the reliability ratings for things like appliances where design changes and manufacturer's focus changes slowly. There is also less emotionalism involved in the subscriber input that comprises the scores.

When it comes to cars, do more research. One of the issues w/ CR reliability ratings is the sample size, mean, median, and SD. CR won't reveal those and I for one believe they will publish a rating if they have a minimum of 2 inputs. Not very representative. Add to that the human nature factor of only taking the time to respond to the survey if you are either thrilled or PO'd and the data becomes even less reliable.

On the other hand, just scanning the 10,000 posts here and the myriad of TSBs for the triplets should tell you that there were some reliability issues with the 2002 models. Just look a some of the flaming posts here and imagine if those folks were CR subscribers filling out their survey.

As noted, the predicted reliability is based on all the input on a model to date. It doesn't reflect changes from year-to-year, so the predicted reliability may not be at representive of the current model year version of a vehicle that has been made for several years. What is of value are those ratings as applied to used cars. For used cars, CR differentiates model years and a vehicle that had a lot of introduction problems would have poor scores in the first year and be outstanding in subsequent years.

Bottom line, I wouldn't use the predicted reliability of the triplets, which is based on the 2002 model year to make a decision on a 2003. In fact, I didn't. But, I did shy away from spectacular closeout deals on 2002s last fall. Why tempt fate, I'm not a lucky guy to begin with.

richlavoie

I said earlier that I was ready to buy the TB, and I am/was... I left the house this morning ready to order my vehicle. I have under my arm a very nice offer from a dealer from my hometown, 6 hours away from where I live. I go to GMC first to have a look at the Envoy. The guy tells me that he can't sell the car for the price on the offer by GM because he would lose money... Can you believe it? I left and told him not to bother calling me!

You have to understand that I am in a small town (Fredericton) with only one dealer of each. People here just show up and buy at whatever price. I am not like that and where I am from, power is to the consumer!

I drive to the Chevy dealer, a little upset. I have an appointment for 0900. I get there, the guy seem surprise to see me, is not ready, and smell like his last drink was a couple of hours away! I try the TB. Love it. I am ready to deal. It takes them 2 hours to sort out the numbers. The salesman is obviously a very small middleman and has to bring all my requests /questions to his boss. It is extremely anoying. After two hours, he could not figure out what I wanted to put down and what I was aiming for, and he was way above the special offer from GM. I just could not believe it and left, extremely upset!

I am waiting for some news from my dealer in Quebec to find out if what he told me stands and I will order from him. This is the type of dealership that give a bad name to the company. Now, I wouldn't blame GM for this, because in this town, they are pretty much all the same. It is a small town mentality, rather then a dealership problem. People here believe it is the end of the world to drive an hour to buy something. Well not this guy.

Ah, feels so much better now. I had to let it all out. I am patient, and want to order and I am ready to wait 4 months for this truck. But taking me for a suc..., that makes me lose it.

obravada

I had the same problem on my '02 Bravada with the center caps on the polished wheels.. they turned a yellowish tint. When I took the truck in for the 12K service I had them replaced under warranty. No problems..

theeldergod

I have a '03 Envoy XL w/ v8 and Bose 6-disk CD. I listen to talk radio on most of my commute, but during the extended commercials, I will switch to CD. The problem that I have is when I switch between the 2. The main station I listen too is set as Talk. Works great. However, when I switch to CD, it should pick up the Spacious setting, however it sounds like the talk setting. If I press the EQ button, it shows spacious. If I press the button 5 more times though all the settings. It sounds correct. The dealer is going to order a new head unit as soon as I get back in so they can pull the existing and get some numbers off of it, whatever that means. I can switch back to radio and the talk setting is engaged. I just wanted to know if anyone else has seen this. It might be something you want to check for. If its a common problem, changing the radio may not fix it. I just want to be prepared. Thanks for any feed back.

kimodo

Hey all,
    I have a question regarding towing. Planning on getting aboat for this season. I have a 3.42 geared 2002 ls. The chevy site says its okay to pull up to 4000 lb with the standard hitch. Thinking of getting a 21 foot boat, wiehgt around 5000 lb with trailer. Anyone get the anti sway and weight distribution tow package? Can someone tell me how much it costs, and the best place to get it? Thanks...

quickdtoo

All the Tb/Envoys come with the receiver hitch/tow pkg as standard equipment. The anti-sway and weight distribution equipment is part of the ball mount not the receiver which is the part attached to the car. These come in many different configurations. Check with a local hitch dealer or search online for info. Here's one. Tim

http://www.hitch-web.com/default.asp

aldan93

I've had 4 boats in my life time all around 20', I don't think your boat and trailer weigh 5000? Is it made out of 1/2" steel? 3500 lbs sounds about correct? Any way my TB pulls my boat that is 20' weighs 3100 fully loaded, Seems like its not even back there on the highway!

giddens_john

For those that don't frequent the other triplet forums on the web. Cappy over at SUV.com posted a Whipple Industries 4.2L Vortec Twin screw Whipple Supercharger link.
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1169
How about a big round of Tim Allen grunt's. At $34.53 per extra potential pony it's a little expensive IMHO, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't go for it.

richlavoie

Interesting comment about the weight or your boat. What is the axle ratio on your TB? My trailer will have about the same weight.

Rich