How hard was it to install the power mirrors? Was all the wiring there already? If you could get me some instructions I would really appreciate it.. I talked the serice and parts department and they quoted me $1500 to install power heated mirror!! That's CRAZY! Thanks!
The power mirrors are available with the rear defogger due to the fact that they are heated and warm up with the rear window. I agree that power (or at least remote controlled) side view mirrors should be standard in the base model considering it's price, but it is not a secret if you read the sales brochure; a good idea before buying.
In NYS the arbitration process is mandatory, at least up till 5 years ago, the consumer has no out of pocket expenses in the process and the arbitrator's decision is only binding on the manufacturer, not the consumer.
I don't blame anybody but myself about the mirrors. I traded in an 02 TB LS and because it had power mirrors, I didn't even think twice about the mirrors on the Envoy. Talk about cutting corners though!! I hope they put all those savings into fixing the 02 bugs!!
Bad news first: The transmission on my Envoy SLT (build 02/2002; 26,180 miles) failed while climbing a hill in AWD at 35 mph on a road covered with snow, ice, and dry pavement at 3 degrees F. Apparently, the transmission broke the Sun Gear (8642204) and the Reaction Shell (24217145) while transferring to a non-slipping wheel. The 120-mile drive to the dealer was without controlled shifting, OD, high gear, and reverse---the transmission kept going in third without any noises or unusual heating.
Good News: Only a day and a half total turn-around time for the R&R, a rental car waiting on arrival, an external wash for pickup, totally professional handling of the situation by the dealer, and no cost due to the warrantee.
I'm still pleased with the service and the Envoy, but I do not trust the AWD in mixed traction conditions anymore.
"Are they any V8 EXT/XL owners out there that hear a hissing or whistling noise coming from the engine when accelerating, or in particular when you are going 55-75mph holding a constant speed? This noise can be heard best between 55-75mph when just pressing pedal slightly then releasing, to hold a constant speed. Please let me know, or listen to your engine. Or if anyone has an idea of what could cause this type of noise. My dealer has been of no help so far. Thanks."
Came across a new TSB today it mentions "Whistle Noise.". I know its not exactly your symptoms but hey you never know.
TSB 03-04-19-002 Subject:Squeak, Squeal or Whistle Noise From Front Axle(Replace Intermediate Axle Seal and/or Differential Carrier Seal)
Condition: Some customers may comment on a high pitched squeal, squeak or whistle noise in the front end of the vehicle. This noise usually occurs once per wheel revolution. This may be more common in cold weather below 50C (40F). The noise may be coming from the right front axle intermediate shaft housing outboard seal or the left outer differential carrier seal. For testing purposes, spraying a lubricant on the seal should temporarily reduce the noise. This noise should not be mistaken for a wheel bearing issue.
Cause: A lack of lubrication in the seal may cause this condition.
Just had my first oil change, 3,000 miles, on my '03 Bravada. Couldn't find any warranty issues for the dealer to work. Can't find much to complain about with this vehicle except gas mileage (still at about 14.2 for all around driving) and seats that let you slip around on hard corners. But, those seats are almost twice as wide as the ones in my '91 S-10 Blazer and twice as soft. I'll deal with the slide, just wear my seatbelt.
So far this '03 Bravada continues to be the finest automotive vehicle I've owned, driven, or ridden in. The ride is so quiet and smooth regardless of the weather or road conditions. The engine deserves the 10 best-in-the-world rating it got from the automotive engineers. I realized after a while that when I "stomped" on the gas for quick acceleration, I didn't feel any affect on the vehicle from the engine reving to 6K rpm. No shake. No vibration. No noise. The only noise I was hearing was the exhaust pitch. Wow, what a well engineered motor!
The other thing I've really come to appreciate is the brakes. Best damn brakes on anything I've ever driven. Stopping is totally proportional to pedal pressure, not slight with the early travel and hard with the final travel, like 99% of other vehicle's brakes. With the Bravada, I can stop on the dime w/o ever causing my passengers to feel the slightest lean forward. Now that is brake control.
On our slick roads the past few weeks, the ABS stopped the truck fast and true. Never had anything but pure straight-ahead stopping w/o a slide on even "black ice". Followed an Audi Quattro to work this morning on slick roads and had to give him some more distance. He was slip-sliding on all the highway curves and couldn't stop in anywhere near the distance the Bravada could. So much for euro-engineering.
Anyway, the point of this post is to once again note for others that some of the "Triplets" are fine SUVs and a good choice for those looking to buy now.
How was the trade in value for the TB/Envoy for those who traded in a 02 for a 03 or any year tb for another vehicle? ( no lemon trade ins, etc)
I have no gripes against my 03 TB, but wanted to get a little bigger vehicle (tahoe/yukon). Got lowballed on my 1 month TB (LS, black, package 3) and was wondering how everyone else did.
Not sure what the details were, but if you're trading in an 03 TB that's just a few weeks old, you're gonna take a big hit. Most likely the dealer will give you 10% less than dead, net-net cost to them on a new one. that's if there's less than 5k in miles on it. Pretty standard really. Perhaps less now though since there are so many promo's and finance deals out there on the new ones.
I traded in my 02 TB LS 4x4 with 11700 miles and got $21,500 in trade. That was up from the initial offer of $18,100. KBB listed the TB as $21,210. Good luck!
Everyone should keep in mind that trade in vaules are depressed across the board. Due to the incentives give by manufacturers for the last 2 years, there is a glut of used vehicles on the market. In true economic terms of Supply Vs. Demand, a huge supply equals a low demand and consequently low $$$$$.
Installing power mirrors was very simple. Everything was ‘plug-and-play’. You need to take off the door panels on both sides. On the driver side you will need to cut a hole for the mirror switch. That was the worst part – and there is no margin for error. I would advise you to take measurements from the car with that switch factory installed, trace the center on your panel and then cut it. I have a picture of the panel with this hole. I can email it to you. Good luck with your project.
Thanks a lot for the info... I will attempt this project as soon as I can get some mirrors. Anyway, if you could send me pictures, that would be great. My email is psobkiew@i2sworld.com. Thanks!
I have an 02 TB LS 4x4 that came without a key less entry system. I added a Viper remote start and alarm to the truck in September of 2002. Since then I have had the remote start and alarm replaced 4 times because it has been causing problems with the truck. Twice the brain unit of the alarm burned out and twice the alarm shut the starter off on me so I couldn't start it. The alarm thought the truck was being stolen. Well it acted up on me again yesterday and wouldn't start. My question is this. Has anyone else added a Viper brand remote start and alarm and/or have they had any problems with it? BTW, it was installed at Circuit City and the tech there thinks the computer on the truck is throwing codes to the alarm and the alarm doesn't understand them. He says it is because the TB has a new computer and the specs for the computer are not programed for the alarm. Anyone have any input? Living in Chicago I really love the remote start during the winter but I am sick of being stuck somewhere with a brand new Tb and it wont start!
Despite all of the problems that have been reported here, we still really like the Envoy XL. So IF I do end up buying one still, what kind of precautions should I take before actually accepting the vehicle?
Doors: What do you look for? Is the wind noise people have complained about related to the door alignment issues? I assume you should take it on the freeway and drive at least 60 to reproduce the wind noise.
The rear seatbelts (should belt) have some belt positioning strap (elastic) attached to them. Is this for correctly positioning the shoulder strap for kids? or is it for some other use?
Despite all of the problems that have been reported here, we still really like the Envoy XL. So IF I do end up buying one still, what kind of precautions should I take before actually accepting the vehicle?
I wouldn't run away if I were you. We kind of went through the same thing two months ago when we bought our Envoy XL. From what I've been reading here, I would make sure it has power mirrors if it is the SLE trim. :-)
Also, there should be a checklist in the glove compartment that the dealer should complete before delivering the vehicle. I would make sure it has all been done. Check the high-beams, low beams, turn signals, brake lights, etc. before you drive off. Look over the body really well and make sure there are no dents/dings/scratches, and have them fixed or at least documented that they will fix them. My wheels had some numbers written on them in marker, make sure stuff like that is all cleaned up.
Check the interior really well for rips in the upholstery, stains, scratches, etc. Try all of the power equipment, locks, windows, cruise control, mirrors, sunroof, heated seats, etc.
Don't forget to take it for a thorough test drive. You might even want to pop the hood and check your fluids. Don't forget to check the tire pressure!
cebteb: I feel sorry for you, your experience can only get worse from where here. Those of us who have had problems with out tripletts at least have something to look forward to.
BTW, keep stomping on the gas, it will keep your mpg low.
If you like the Envoy XL I wouldn't hesitate to get one. I have almost 1,000 miles on my new one and couldn't be happier. It is a fine vehicle. It handles great in the snow. I'm a sedan convert; I've previously owned 5 Bonnevilles. To me this is a Bonneville SUV. I have the SLT loaded and only miss a couple of things on the DIC; Fuel Used and the Tire Pressure Monitor. I believe the wind noise is inherent in a truck of this shape. It certainly is noisier than my Bonnevilles were, but I don't think their is an air leak. I certainly am not getting any water leaks from the windows or windshield. It's probably no noisier than any other vehicle of this shape and size. Go for it!
I have the exactly same concern. Mine is ordered, and I began to worry. Someone wrote to me and pointed out that those who write on these buletin boards are the ones with problems. Those without problems do not comment much. Think about it. If you buy and everything goes well, you may be back here and say so once. If you have problems, you will be back here asking questions and looking for others with the same problems, trying to find the solution. That is what I would (will) do. Out of 1 TB with problems, there may be severals without problems. Also remember that 02 was the first production year, and there are always problems with the first production years. In my opinion, more on North-Americans then import, but still.
If you are looking for a truck (I know I am), then the TB/Envoy is a great vehicle, based on my reading. If you are looking for a car disguised as an SUV, look at the Highlander or Triibute. They are nice vehicles, but will not do what a TB or Durango or Explorer will do. Some imports are also good as trucks (Pathfinder and 4 Runner) but I tried them all and for the price, I believe that the TB is a better truck.
To make you feel better, look at the following reviews:
I believe the majority of owners are very happy. The key is to buy from a good dealer. If problems arise, he will take care of you. Hopefully, you know just the one.
i have an 02 Envoy XL SLT put the remote start in beginning of winter not one problem it was done buy a private shop. cost me $280.00 the remote i got for the remote start only starts the truck, i didn't want to lose my memory for the driver 1 and 2 that was on the factory remote i must say the viper remote has very good distance it will start the truck from very far away. But like i said i have 2 remotes on my key ring now but i didn't really want the shop to play with power locks and stuff like that im sure in time i might be able to have him work it all into one remote but for now i have no problems. the truck has 13,000 miles runs great hope this helps
went in to have the bumping noise looked at again and basically the dealership that I am stuck dealing with has told me I am a crazy woman in nicer terms . I do want to write to customer service and tell them how dissapointed I am in not only the way I was treated but in the Chevy product. This is 2 strikes and the last straw the next car I get will not be a GM. Thank god I only have 2yrs and 3 months on this lease and I didn't purchase this truck. So I wanted to know if anyone know how to find out who I can address this letter to. Any info is helpful thanks
Well, I just got the vehicle back from the dealer. Good and bad news for anyone concerned. First, the dealer changed my REAR drive shaft (F1280)although he originally told me he was going to replace the FRONT drive shaft.Go figure. The vibrations which WERE felt on my gas pedal have diminished BUT HAVE NOT GONE AWAY TOTALLY. Thus, I must concur with "ALAN93" who states that GM has no answer at this time in fixing this problem. I can live with the present vibration(I think)although I am aware of the vibration while I drive.I figure that fixing the rear drive shaft reduced the vibration by about 50%. Not bad, but certainly not what I was hoping for. So, WHAT NOW??? Do I take it back to the dealer and tell him I'm not happy because the vibration is still there, or do I try to live with it for the next 4 years of my lease? Do I try to make my dealer exchange this for another TB under the Lemon Law (I think it has to be brought back to the dealer 5 times for the same problem before they will possibly deal with you) ANY SUGGESTIONS ? Regards,Bob
I am in the same boat as you with my dealer thinking I am just a hyper-sensitive crazy woman who hears noises in her Envoy. I spent half an hour on the phone with the dealer/owner yesterday to no avail. They have blown me off and told me that the vibration/noise I hear is "normal".
I do get good results when I call GM customer service however. They really take the time to listen to you and they will take action. I had an earlier problem with my dealer when I bought the car and after giving them two tries to fix my paperwork on their own I called GM customer serivce and within 5 minutes the GM rep had the sales manager of the dealership on the other line and he had it all straightened out within 10 minutes. They are very interested in how the dealerships are doing - they were concerned that I was not happy.
So if you want to go that route rather than writing, here is the number.
GM Customer Service 1-800-462-8782
You will have to navigate thru some phone menus but its not too hard to get to a customer service rep.
My father bought a loaded 2002 Envoy XL SLT the exact same week that I picked up my loaded XL SLT back when they first came out in the spring of '02. I have a very early VIN number, build date of 2/02, and his is a little later - 04/02 or 05/02. I have 9000 miles on mine now, and I can say that we are truly happy with the vehicle. I have owned Blazers, and I currently own a Tahoe as well as the XL, and hands down, the XL is the best SUV I have ever driven (including fords and imports). I had some of the initial issues (wandering mirrors, separating running boards, hood squeak, etc), but a good dealer and tips from this board got them resolved and we are happy.
Now for your issue - the other XL in the family (my father's) has been making that bumping noise in the front end ever since he picked it up. We had it in ours as well, and my dealer changed the front end sway bar links, and it went away, and has been gone for 7000+ miles. My father has been through 4 sets of links, a set of struts, and countless other "Tightenings and adjustments" and the noise persists. The dealer was out of ideas, so they loaded one of those vehicle data recorders onto the XL, let it ride for a few days, then sent the data to GM. The service rep also drove the vehicle, and actually admitted to hearing the noise, and having no clue what it is. My dad is currently waiting for an answer from the Detroit engineers. Incidentally, the dealer told him that under PA law, this is not a safety issue, so no buyback can be done, even though they have tried to fix it 6+ times. If he learns anything about it, I will post it here. GOOD LUCK!
Sorry for the long post - I am one of those happy owners that reads a lot, and only posts every so often.
A week or two ago I posted here about my worsening gas mileage on my year old Bravada this winter. The other day, while filling up the tank, I had an idea and added a can of dry gas. Low and behold my mileage is back to normal (16-17 mpg around town). I feel pretty silly for not thinking about condensation in the tank earlier. In some respects I think I was influenced by the many posts here about gas mileage problems. I thought my problem was related somehow to similar problems I'd read about here. I learned my lesson. Often times the simplest explanation is the correct one. The bottle of dry gas cost me 70 cents. If anyone decides to try this I'd be interested to hear if its helped. Perhaps there is something about the design of the gas tank that makes it more prone to condensation.
Has anyone tried/Do we think it's even possible to swap out the 18 gallon tank on an '02 TB with the new 25 gallon tank?
This is one of those things that I'd actually be willing to spend a fair amount of money to have done, to increase my range from approx. 350 miles up to nearly 500 miles. (I'm fairly consistently averaging right at 20 mpg on pure hwy driving.)
Thanks for the replies. We're continuing to look. It would be a slam dunk if not for the perception of quality problems. I do realize that these boards are going to attract people with problems so I take them with a grain of salt, but by comparison if you look at the Toyota Sequoia board or look at the consumer reviews on carpoint.com, the ratio of complaints are much higher for the Envoy.
Every car I've ever driven and owned had significantly worse gas milage in the winter months when it's cold. In the fall I averaged 18 mpg (city and highway combined) and now in the winter I average 14-15. A few weeks back we had a little warm spell (40's) and I noticed better fuel consumption.. I got 16.5 mpg in the same driving conditions. I have a feeling a lot of poor gas milage numbers will get better as the weather warms up. Good luck to all!
2003 LT EXT V8 with 3,400 miles. It's still early yet but no problems to report. This is the nicest truck we've ever owned and eveyone who gets in it simply loves it. It's excellent in the snow and in particular on long road trips during blizzards!!! Going back to Vermont this weekend.
in this case my mpg didn't start deteriorating until late December. Winter gas (with MBTE additive) generally goes into the pumps here outside of Boston somewhat earlier (I notice the seasonal decrease Paulyjsob mentions starting in November usually). The decrease in mpg due to gas formulation is usually not as extreme as what I experienced. Maybe going from 16.5 on avg to to 16 with the winter gas. My last tank before I added the dry gas averaged 13.9 mpg. Now I am back to approximately 17 mpg. Again, dry gas is a cheap and quick fix and it can't hurt trying for approximately a buck.
I also had the thumping from the front end after going over bumps. The dealer replaced the intermediate steering column and that worked -- for awhile.
The noise has come back in the past few weeks and next oil change I will let them attempt to fix it again.
If you need more info, let me know and I will go back and look at the invoice and post specifically what they did. Looks as if that was just a temporary fix.
"The rear seatbelts (should belt) have some belt positioning strap (elastic) attached to them. Is this for correctly positioning the shoulder strap for kids? or is it for some other use?"
I don't know what triplet you have but there is a TSB for 2003's with a Long Wheelbase.
TSB 02-09-40-005A Subject:Availability of Rear Seat Shoulder Belt Comfort Guides
Models: 2003 Buick Century, Regal 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix 2003 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade EXT 2003 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado Extended Cab, Suburban, Tahoe, TrailBlazer EXT 2003 GMC Envoy XL, Sierra Extended Cab, Yukon, Yukon XL
Some early 2003 production vehicles were manufactured without rear seat shoulder belt comfort guides. This comfort guide is a plastic guide attached to a short elastic tether that positions the shoulder belt away from the neck of short occupants, whether children or adults. A rear seat shoulder belt comfort guide may help improve the comfort of the shoulder portion of the safety belt for occupants sitting in the rear outboard seating positions.
While these vehicles comply with all Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, some customers may request to have these comfort guides installed on their vehicle. Comfort guides are currently available from GMSPO
Upon customer request, dealers are authorized to install these rear seat shoulder belt comfort guides at no cost to the customers.
I don't think so, besides, not all car owners use the internet and even fewer of those who use the internet have found Edmunds.com. Check out some of the other car brands on Edmunds.com to get an idea of the comparative number of complaints vs praises. In addition to the 2002 TB, I have a Jeep, a Ford van a Mitsubishi, an Olds and a Chevy pickup in my family. The 2002 TB has had far more quirks than the other cars combined. This is in addition to the small quirk of having the TB engine replaced at 2000 miles.
Lets admit it, the tripletts were delivered prematurely.
They should have been tested for at least another year before going to market. We were used as beta testers and we are reporting the results of the test. Like the line from the movie A FEW GOOD MEN, some people can't handle the truth.
Frank
P.S. I'm not angry, but I do learn from my mistakes.
I have 36k on my 2002 TB LT & still love it! I used it alot in snow this year (Philadelphia suburbs) which was my main reason to of buying a 4X4. My second reason is that it one of the few vehicle I can fit comfortably - I'm 6'6".
I also used it in sand, surf fishing, at the NJ Shore & it performed well. I really, have nothing to compare it with as this is my first 4X4, but I didn't get stuck! :-)
Since I purchased my 02 Bravada in November 2001 I have not reset the avg. mile/gal read out in the DIC. I live in Connecticut where we have had extreme temperature ranges (both last summer and this winter). I have consistently received 17.6 mpg...during summer and winter months. I exclusively use Mobil 87 octane grade gasoline. My overall driving % is about 70/30, highway/city. Traveling 27 miles each way to and from work, (all highway). I have not added any additives or dry gas since day one. I do notice a slight increase in the overall avg/mpg if I go on long trips to visits friends at the New Jersey shore, about a 400 mile round trip.
I have a 2002 Envoy SLE with the painted aluminum wheels. I'm due for the first tire rotation. I've never lowered the spare. Is it also a painted wheel, or is a cheaper one? If it's just like the others, then I guess I should include it in the rotation. If it doesn't match, then I guess I won't include it in the rotation. Does that sound right? I have second thoughts about including the spare in the rotation, since that's just that much more opportunity for them to scratch up my rear panel each time. Thanks for info/comments.
Did anyone get the 2003 auto issue yet? The triplets are at the very bottom of their predicted reliability rankings for midsize & large SUVs. Dead last. Even the BMW X5, which has had its fair share of problems, did better at -100%.
Chevrolet Trailblazer -116% GMC Envoy -116% Oldsmobile Bravada -191%
These percentages are in comparison to the average reliability of 2000, 2001, and 2002 vehicles in their survey (0% being average). Doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
50% highway 50% city , I'm averaging around 18, My explorer never even got 19mpg on 100% highway! Has anyone got 22 MPG? on the highway with a TB? IN-6 , just curious.
My best was in September, 23.6 mpg for a 220 mile all interstate round trip @65-70 mph, not many hills and no wind either way, a couple miles city. This was calculated after fillup, no DIC reading. '02 Tb SL. tim
with this problem . i am so upset at the fact that this is the second time I have gotten a new Chevy with problems. The 2000 Venture I had was the worst at less then 3 months they replaced the tranny and had to re-paint a portion of the bumper (it was Peeling). I fell in love with the trailblazer because everyone here (STATEN ISALND) NY seems to have the durango . Well now with the small but annoying problems with the trailblazer I can see why my dear husband didn't want this car and tried talking me into another mini van but one by honda. I am glad I leased this car and didn't purchase it as I see there are a lot of different problems that GM can't seem to fix. If anyone finds a solution to this problem please let us know . I hope it doesn't turn out to be anything major. Thanks for listening to me rant a little too I am just so crazy that the dealership made me sound nuts and like I didn't know anything .
"Has anyone got 22 MPG? on the highway with a TB? IN-6"
I've in fact gotten better than 22 MPG in my Bravada. While on a trip from south Texas to Washington state we went though Yellowstone National Park. I filled up just before entering the park, went though on cruise control at the posted speed limits, which were quite slow because it took all day, stopped numerous times for pictures and such. Filled back up after we got through Yellowstone and doing the old trip odometer miles divided by fill up receipt gallons it came out be a little over 24 MPG so no DIC trickery either. I was shocked since we were no where near highway speeds. The averages during the trip outside of Yellowstone varied between 19-22 MPG. All of this mileage was done with the odometer starting at 2,081 miles and by the end of the trip I had 9032 miles on the odometer. Of course lately I've only been getting 13-14 MPG but I haven't gone on any long trips recently either.
I love my Envoy. I've had several "problem" vehicles in the past - import and domestic. I think GM really outdid themselves with these triplets. There's nothing to compare them with in their price range. Yes, anyone can get a bad one, and I feel your pain. I had a '98 Bravada that I couldn't wait to get rid of. But, even on its best day, it was still a prehistoric monster on four wheels, compared to the Envoy. For everyone riding the edge on purchasing one of these, as Nike says, "Just Do It!"
Bob, Thanks for the axle update. My envoy is going in 2 weeks and they will put on a machine that measures harmonics. Armed with that info they will work with GMC to see where it is coming from. Just maybe, they will be able to see where to go from there. I am going to tell them about your rear axle partial fix as well. Keep taking it back to get your lemon law attempts in and then arbitrate. I think thats free and maybe you can get something different.
Michael
P.S. See why I picked my screen name? I don't trust GM for more than 2 years. After owning a blazer, I am a battered spouse of GM!
P.S. What did you mean by the number in your post, REAR drive shaft (F1280)?
Frank,I didn't mean to insult anyone. The point I am trying to make is that when I have the TB, I will certainly post my initial comments here. If things go well, chances are I will post once and forget about this site. If I have problems, I will be back here daily trying to find out how others corrected it. I do believe most people are like that.
There are no doubt in my mind that there are many problems with the triplets. I do trust GM to fix them. I wouldn't trust Ford (they never fixed the transmission problem on the Aerostar, which was sold with an extremely poor trany for over 10 years). I also agree with you that perhaps these vehicle were sent on the road without proper testing. On the other hand, I have also found many owners who had no problem at all, which is very hard to explain.
This is why I (1) ordered the vehicle to get the latest off the line and perhaps they will have adjusted the line a little and (2) I am leasing this vehicle. If I get one of those lemmons, they will get it right back.
My comments do not aim at insulting anyone. This site and the comments people make are extremely valuable to me. I can guarantee you that my test drive will be extremely thorough. Every perk reported here will be checked and any "vibration" on the gaz pedal and I am not buying that car!
I think the Line of Fire LED light looks pretty cool on the back of a truck. Not sure how it would install on a Triplet. I did not see any response when asked if anyone had it on their Envoy/TB. I hope someone will post a review if they use it.
Update: 14,000 miles on '02 Envoy SLT. Winter mpg is 18.4 (DIC) No problems. However, I did spray WD-40 on rear wiper blade joint. Worked great. Blade wipes better and returns to the holder like it should. Good tip!
Comments
I agree that power (or at least remote controlled) side view mirrors should be standard in the base model considering it's price, but it is not a secret if you read the sales brochure; a good idea before buying.
Bad news first: The transmission on my Envoy SLT (build 02/2002; 26,180 miles) failed while climbing a hill in AWD at 35 mph on a road covered with snow, ice, and dry pavement at 3 degrees F. Apparently, the transmission broke the Sun Gear (8642204) and the Reaction Shell (24217145) while transferring to a non-slipping wheel. The 120-mile drive to the dealer was without controlled shifting, OD, high gear, and reverse---the transmission kept going in third without any noises or unusual heating.
Good News: Only a day and a half total turn-around time for the R&R, a rental car waiting on arrival, an external wash for pickup, totally professional handling of the situation by the dealer, and no cost due to the warrantee.
I'm still pleased with the service and the Envoy, but I do not trust the AWD in mixed traction conditions anymore.
Came across a new TSB today it mentions "Whistle Noise.".
I know its not exactly your symptoms but hey you never know.
TSB 03-04-19-002
Subject:Squeak, Squeal or Whistle Noise From Front Axle(Replace Intermediate Axle Seal and/or Differential Carrier Seal)
Models: 2002 2003 Chevrolet TrailBlazer 4WD
2002 2003 GMC Envoy 4WD
2002 2003 Oldsmobile Bravada AWD
Condition:
Some customers may comment on a high pitched squeal, squeak or whistle noise in the front end of the vehicle. This noise usually occurs once per wheel revolution. This may be more common in cold weather below 50C (40F). The noise may be coming from the right front axle intermediate shaft housing outboard seal or the left outer differential carrier seal. For testing purposes, spraying a lubricant on the seal should temporarily reduce the noise. This noise should not be mistaken for a wheel bearing issue.
Cause:
A lack of lubrication in the seal may cause this condition.
So far this '03 Bravada continues to be the finest automotive vehicle I've owned, driven, or ridden in. The ride is so quiet and smooth regardless of the weather or road conditions. The engine deserves the 10 best-in-the-world rating it got from the automotive engineers. I realized after a while that when I "stomped" on the gas for quick acceleration, I didn't feel any affect on the vehicle from the engine reving to 6K rpm. No shake. No vibration. No noise. The only noise I was hearing was the exhaust pitch. Wow, what a well engineered motor!
The other thing I've really come to appreciate is the brakes. Best damn brakes on anything I've ever driven. Stopping is totally proportional to pedal pressure, not slight with the early travel and hard with the final travel, like 99% of other vehicle's brakes. With the Bravada, I can stop on the dime w/o ever causing my passengers to feel the slightest lean forward. Now that is brake control.
On our slick roads the past few weeks, the ABS stopped the truck fast and true. Never had anything but pure straight-ahead stopping w/o a slide on even "black ice". Followed an Audi Quattro to work this morning on slick roads and had to give him some more distance. He was slip-sliding on all the highway curves and couldn't stop in anywhere near the distance the Bravada could. So much for euro-engineering.
Anyway, the point of this post is to once again note for others that some of the "Triplets" are fine SUVs and a good choice for those looking to buy now.
How was the trade in value for the TB/Envoy for those who traded in a 02 for a 03 or any year tb for another vehicle? ( no lemon trade ins, etc)
I have no gripes against my 03 TB, but wanted to get a little bigger vehicle (tahoe/yukon). Got lowballed on my 1 month TB (LS, black, package 3) and was wondering how everyone else did.
Good luck on the venture.
tim
BTW, it was installed at Circuit City and the tech there thinks the computer on the truck is throwing codes to the alarm and the alarm doesn't understand them. He says it is because the TB has a new computer and the specs for the computer are not programed for the alarm.
Anyone have any input? Living in Chicago I really love the remote start during the winter but I am sick of being stuck somewhere with a brand new Tb and it wont start!
Doors: What do you look for? Is the wind noise people have complained about related to the door alignment issues? I assume you should take it on the freeway and drive at least 60 to reproduce the wind noise.
Other issues?
Should I just run away?
--jay
I wouldn't run away if I were you. We kind of went through the same thing two months ago when we bought our Envoy XL. From what I've been reading here, I would make sure it has power mirrors if it is the SLE trim. :-)
Also, there should be a checklist in the glove compartment that the dealer should complete before delivering the vehicle. I would make sure it has all been done. Check the high-beams, low beams, turn signals, brake lights, etc. before you drive off. Look over the body really well and make sure there are no dents/dings/scratches, and have them fixed or at least documented that they will fix them. My wheels had some numbers written on them in marker, make sure stuff like that is all cleaned up.
Check the interior really well for rips in the upholstery, stains, scratches, etc. Try all of the power equipment, locks, windows, cruise control, mirrors, sunroof, heated seats, etc.
Don't forget to take it for a thorough test drive. You might even want to pop the hood and check your fluids. Don't forget to check the tire pressure!
BTW, keep stomping on the gas, it will keep your mpg low.
Frank
I'm a sedan convert; I've previously owned 5 Bonnevilles. To me this is a Bonneville SUV. I have the SLT loaded and only miss a couple of things on the DIC; Fuel Used and the Tire Pressure Monitor.
I believe the wind noise is inherent in a truck of this shape. It certainly is noisier than my Bonnevilles were, but I don't think their is an air leak. I certainly am not getting any water leaks from the windows or windshield. It's probably no noisier than any other vehicle of this shape and size.
Go for it!
If you are looking for a truck (I know I am), then the TB/Envoy is a great vehicle, based on my reading. If you are looking for a car disguised as an SUV, look at the Highlander or Triibute. They are nice vehicles, but will not do what a TB or Durango or Explorer will do. Some imports are also good as trucks (Pathfinder and 4 Runner) but I tried them all and for the price, I believe that the TB is a better truck.
To make you feel better, look at the following reviews:
http://www.carreview.com/SUV/Chevrolet,TrailBlazer/PRD_135027_152- 4crx.aspx
I believe the majority of owners are very happy. The key is to buy from a good dealer. If problems arise, he will take care of you. Hopefully, you know just the one.
Good luck. I know i just can't wait!
I do get good results when I call GM customer service however. They really take the time to listen to you and they will take action. I had an earlier problem with my dealer when I bought the car and after giving them two tries to fix my paperwork on their own I called GM customer serivce and within 5 minutes the GM rep had the sales manager of the dealership on the other line and he had it all straightened out within 10 minutes. They are very interested in how the dealerships are doing - they were concerned that I was not happy.
So if you want to go that route rather than writing, here is the number.
GM Customer Service 1-800-462-8782
You will have to navigate thru some phone menus but its not too hard to get to a customer service rep.
Good luck!
My father bought a loaded 2002 Envoy XL SLT the exact same week that I picked up my loaded XL SLT back when they first came out in the spring of '02. I have a very early VIN number, build date of 2/02, and his is a little later - 04/02 or 05/02. I have 9000 miles on mine now, and I can say that we are truly happy with the vehicle. I have owned Blazers, and I currently own a Tahoe as well as the XL, and hands down, the XL is the best SUV I have ever driven (including fords and imports). I had some of the initial issues (wandering mirrors, separating running boards, hood squeak, etc), but a good dealer and tips from this board got them resolved and we are happy.
Now for your issue - the other XL in the family (my father's) has been making that bumping noise in the front end ever since he picked it up. We had it in ours as well, and my dealer changed the front end sway bar links, and it went away, and has been gone for 7000+ miles. My father has been through 4 sets of links, a set of struts, and countless other "Tightenings and adjustments" and the noise persists. The dealer was out of ideas, so they loaded one of those vehicle data recorders onto the XL, let it ride for a few days, then sent the data to GM. The service rep also drove the vehicle, and actually admitted to hearing the noise, and having no clue what it is. My dad is currently waiting for an answer from the Detroit engineers. Incidentally, the dealer told him that under PA law, this is not a safety issue, so no buyback can be done, even though they have tried to fix it 6+ times. If he learns anything about it, I will post it here. GOOD LUCK!
Sorry for the long post - I am one of those happy owners that reads a lot, and only posts every so often.
This is one of those things that I'd actually be willing to spend a fair amount of money to have done, to increase my range from approx. 350 miles up to nearly 500 miles. (I'm fairly consistently averaging right at 20 mpg on pure hwy driving.)
The noise has come back in the past few weeks and next oil change I will let them attempt to fix it again.
If you need more info, let me know and I will go back and look at the invoice and post specifically what they did. Looks as if that was just a temporary fix.
Joel
I don't know what triplet you have but there is a TSB for 2003's with a Long Wheelbase.
TSB 02-09-40-005A
Subject:Availability of Rear Seat Shoulder Belt Comfort Guides
Models:
2003 Buick Century, Regal
2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
2003 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade EXT
2003 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado Extended Cab, Suburban,
Tahoe, TrailBlazer EXT
2003 GMC Envoy XL, Sierra Extended Cab, Yukon, Yukon XL
Some early 2003 production vehicles were manufactured without rear seat shoulder belt comfort guides. This comfort guide is a plastic guide attached to a short elastic tether that positions the shoulder belt away from the neck of short occupants, whether children or adults. A rear seat shoulder belt comfort guide may help improve the comfort of the shoulder portion of the safety belt for occupants sitting in the rear outboard seating positions.
While these vehicles comply with all Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, some customers may request to have these comfort guides installed on their vehicle. Comfort guides are currently available from GMSPO
Upon customer request, dealers are authorized to install these rear seat shoulder belt comfort guides at no cost to the customers.
Lets admit it, the tripletts were delivered prematurely.
They should have been tested for at least another year before going to market. We were used as beta testers and we are reporting the results of the test. Like the line from the movie A FEW GOOD MEN, some people can't handle the truth.
Frank
P.S. I'm not angry, but I do learn from my mistakes.
I also used it in sand, surf fishing, at the NJ Shore & it performed well. I really, have nothing to compare it with as this is my first 4X4, but I didn't get stuck! :-)
John
Methanol Alcohol is harmful to fuel injected engines.
Chevrolet Trailblazer -116%
GMC Envoy -116%
Oldsmobile Bravada -191%
These percentages are in comparison to the average reliability of 2000, 2001, and 2002 vehicles in their survey (0% being average). Doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
It's just a black steel wheel that won't look very attractive on your SUV.
'02 Tb SL. tim
I've in fact gotten better than 22 MPG in my Bravada. While on a trip from south Texas to Washington state we went though Yellowstone National Park. I filled up just before entering the park, went though on cruise control at the posted speed limits, which were quite slow because it took all day, stopped numerous times for pictures and such. Filled back up after we got through Yellowstone and doing the old trip odometer miles divided by fill up receipt gallons it came out be a little over 24 MPG so no DIC trickery either. I was shocked since we were no where near highway speeds. The averages during the trip outside of Yellowstone varied between 19-22 MPG. All of this mileage was done with the odometer starting at 2,081 miles and by the end of the trip I had 9032 miles on the odometer. Of course lately I've only been getting 13-14 MPG but I haven't gone on any long trips recently either.
Michael
P.S. See why I picked my screen name? I don't trust GM for more than 2 years. After owning a blazer, I am a battered spouse of GM!
P.S. What did you mean by the number in your post, REAR drive shaft (F1280)?
There are no doubt in my mind that there are many problems with the triplets. I do trust GM to fix them. I wouldn't trust Ford (they never fixed the transmission problem on the Aerostar, which was sold with an extremely poor trany for over 10 years). I also agree with you that perhaps these vehicle were sent on the road without proper testing. On the other hand, I have also found many owners who had no problem at all, which is very hard to explain.
This is why I (1) ordered the vehicle to get the latest off the line and perhaps they will have adjusted the line a little and (2) I am leasing this vehicle. If I get one of those lemmons, they will get it right back.
My comments do not aim at insulting anyone. This site and the comments people make are extremely valuable to me. I can guarantee you that my test drive will be extremely thorough. Every perk reported here will be checked and any "vibration" on the gaz pedal and I am not buying that car!
http://www.jpcustoms.com/Productpages/Line-of-Fire.html
Update: 14,000 miles on '02 Envoy SLT. Winter mpg is 18.4 (DIC) No problems. However, I did spray WD-40 on rear wiper blade joint. Worked great. Blade wipes better and returns to the holder like it should. Good tip!
Mike