Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

quickdtoo

Me neither, not in my 40+ yrs automotive maintenance experience, changing the oil @3-4k intervals is more important. Kinda negates the benefits of synth, especially for short drive commuters which can demand even shorter change intervals. I DO recommend synth in the drivetrain though, due to its cold viscosity quality.

tblazed

My 2¢ worth: I had a '68 GTO (400/350 hp), when I got rid of it, it had 197,000 miles on the odo, and never saw a drop of synthetic oil. (Timing chain was still original too!) It was using less than 1 qt between 3,000-4,000 mi oil changes. A friend that's a mechanic finally got rid of his '89 Buick Park Avenue with almost 236,000 mi- never any synth oil in it either. All he ever used in it was plain ol' Valvoline. If the engine doesn't stress the oil with high RPM and/or run really hot, then any benefit of synth oil is questionable IMO. Just depends on the application whether synthetic is worthwhile. I've used Mobil 1, Amzoil, and Pennzoil Performax before, never felt I got my moneys worth, especially when it came time to trade or sell the vehicle. I just change the oil a little more often now with regular QS 10W-30.

scottc454

Me neither, not in my 40+ yrs automotive maintenance experience, changing the oil @3-4k intervals is more important.

I beg to differ. Using synthetic is better than using dyno and thinking that changing the oil more often will make up for it. Synthetic oil is simply a lot better at lubrication and flows better during cold starts.

You may have fresh conventional oil in there all the time, but it's still inferior to synthetic and will allow more engine wear.

Search the web and you will find and number of tests of synthetics vs. conventional oils. Engine wear is a measurable thing.

quickdtoo

It may be measureable but negligable. The question is," is it worth it?" IMO, certainly not. The same mileage/real world performance is attainable with dino for a whole lot less money. You use synth for the next 30 yrs, I'll use dino and put the difference in the bank, we'll see who saves the most. ;-)

scottc454

Not to drag this out any more, but I spend less than $40 every 8,000 miles for 7 qts. of Mobil 1 and a filter. One might consider that a negligible cost, eh?

quickdtoo

No, definately not negligible, just twice the cost for negligible difference. With dino you would spend ~half that every 8k, money in the bank. About $1 a quart and $3 for a good filter. Most folks will never realize a benefit from synth, they don't keep a vehicle more than 100k miles, at most, there might be a difference at 250-300k, but how many keep a rig that long? Most do not. Those that use synth justify synth with all the market hype, something too many people $buy$ into.

quickdtoo

Maybe this will help you decide if it's worth it.
http://www.csaa.com/global/faqdetail/0,8054,1004010401%257C220,00- .html

tblazed

If I was driving my Trailblazer 20,000 mi a year or more like some do, I would likely use synthetic, probably Mobil 1. And go by the oil change light too, to get my moneys worth. But at my rate I would be throwing away perfectly good Mobil 1 every year that has less than 6,000 mi on it. I don't drive my TB a lot. I prefer to change out the oil more frequently to get the moisture and blowby dilution and contamination that gets in it, regardless whether it is "dino" or synthetic. They both get contaminated. I won't leave any oil in an engine a year with my driving mostly short trips.
Also doesn't a 5W-30 "dino" flow the same as a 5W-30 synth at 0°F? They should if they are both "5W". "W" is the Winter viscosity. Of course if you live in Siberia, maybe you need an oil that won't congeal at 50 below!

scottc454

Most folks will never realize a benefit from synth, they don't keep a vehicle more than 100k miles, at most, there might be a difference at 250-300k, but how many keep a rig that long? Most do not.

I'm not most folks. I'll be keeping my Trailblazer forever. I do agree that most folks sell cars long before the engines give out. If they're that concerned about oil, I thank them for saving their engines for the next owners.

I've seen plenty of high mileage engines out there, but it's not enough to just make it that high. If you would subject them to compression tests, you'd most likely find a decrease in compression due to engine wear. Yeah, they sound fine, but do they perform like when they were brand new? Nope.

As for "buying into the hype", obviously we have to make decisions about who to believe, but to me hype is when Jiffy Lube tells you to change oil every 3000 miles. When you buy a new motorcycle and it says not to break the engine in on synthetic motor oil because it is too slippery, I gotta ask "why would they lie?"

Also doesn't a 5W-30 "dino" flow the same as a 5W-30 synth at 0°F? That's what the "5W" part means. Of course if you live in Siberia, maybe you need oil that won't congeal at -50 below!

I don't know. If I lived in Texas I guess I wouldn't be concerned about that.

kpp14

"I had a '68 GTO (400/350 hp), when I got rid of it, it had 197,000 miles on the odo, and never saw a drop of synthetic oil. (Timing chain was still original too!) It was using less than 1 qt between 3,000-4,000 mi oil changes."
What an awesome car! I could put that as my dream car in the profile....and you got rid of one! I hope you kick yourself regularly for that. Got any vintage Camero SS in your backyard t-blazed?

tblazed

I had that '68 GTO 'til '87 when I ran out of room to store cars. Even the hideaway headlights still worked! But something had to go and it was getting near impossible to find parts for it, pre-internet unfortunately. Had to rely on Hemmings Motor News classified for most parts. I did have an '86 IROC-Z until last year that had every option available on it except the rear window wiper and T-tops. I sold it with 6,020 mi on the odo (17 years old). Got darn near what I paid for it new in Dec '85. Obviously I didn't drive it much - had the most uncomfortable low back bucket seats in it I have ever sat in! Even with the 6-way power adjust, there was no setting I could live with. Wouldn't mind having an '01 SS Camaro out in the stable though...

But I digress. All that's distilled down now to an '88 S-10 and an '02 Trailblazer.

tblazed

scottc454: "I don't know. If I lived in Texas I guess I wouldn't be concerned about that."

If I lived in Colorado I wouldn't be too concerned about oil at 50 below either- it doesn't get that cold up there does it??

Here's a good link that explains what that "W" designation means among other oil facts.

More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Motor Oil

bertman48

aldan93...I am having the identical vibrating/humming problem with my '03 TB. It appears that you have solved your problem by replacing the drive shaft. I can't convince my dealer to try this...they keep saying they have to do what the GM engineers recommend such as changing the springs, replace mufflers, etc. I would like to get the name of the Dealer and Service Manager that replaced your drive shaft so that I can have my dealer discuss this matter with them. Please provide me with their name and phone number if possible.

I will be glad to give you my email address if you prefer communicating that way.

Thanks,
Bert Mandeville

quickdtoo

Interesting comparison between 2 synthetics as well as dino to synth. Not current though, it's several yrs old.

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~lists/archive/vfr/199707/msg02380.html

bertman48

Every time I fill my '03 TB up with gasoline, it backflows, right after the nozzle shuts off, spilling out all over the side of the vehicle. Up to this point, my dealer doesn't know how to fix the problem. Has anyone experienced this problem and had the problem fixed? If so, what is the fix to the problem?

Thanks,
Bert M.

quickdtoo

Usually, the pump is to blame, try a different pump. If that's not it, try a different angle on the nozzle, a little deeper, shallower or tip the nozzle to the side. I've had several rigs over the years that this was a problem, one of the above tips always worked in one combo or another. Good luck.

envoy_xl_in_pa

I had the same problem with my Envoy XL, until I started turning the gas pump nozzle 45 degrees to the right when I pump. I also had trouble getting the pump to go continuously. It would shut off every 1/3rd of a gallon or so - talk about annoying, when you are trying to pump 20 gallons! Turning the nozzle solved both issues. I tried several stations, and had the same issues at each. Admitted, it is a little awkward holding the nozzle like that, but after a year and a half, I have gotten used to it.

envoy_xl_in_pa

For those of you with the Air Suspension on your Envoy or Bravada - has anyone experienced a rattling while the compressor is engaged? This just started once the weather got cold, and I have not had time to take it to the dealer. I was wondering if anyone else has had this issue. The truck has settled down and been virtually problem free for quite a while now, until this. Granted we have only put 14,000 miles on it since May 2002, but the last 8000 or so have been trouble free.

FYI - '02 Envoy XL SLT 4X4 - loaded with everything but the DVD.

Thanks!

allenr

Had the same problem in my 02, would take forever to full the tank with gas over everything. I got to the point the dealer replaced the tank and filler pipe. It still splash gas back out the filler. The final solution was to replace the charcoal canister and vent line. It got full of fuel and couldn't vent the tank when filling. Have the dealer check it out.

Allen

quickdtoo

FYI-The canister, "under normal conditions", gets full from overfilling the tank. We should never fill the tank past the 2nd or 3rd pump auto shutoff. I use the first, just to be safe. That applies to all modern vehicles, not just a triplet. hth

bobbies

Question....I have an 02 Bravada and while on an extended trip of 6 - 8 hrs we noticed the console that has the radio and climate controls seemed real warm almost hot to the touch. Is this normal? Anyone else experienced this. Is all the lighting in this panel supposed to generate a lot of heat. I don't want to take to the dealer, they might think I am nuts. Please advise.

discofever

the hot gauges and radio is normal for all GM vehicles. There is a fan behind the radio compartment to cool down the entire instrument panel including the radio. Although it may not appear that it's working because everything is hot to the touch, but it is...

tblazed

Not on my TB. The radio head unit does get fairly hot if you play it a long time at a moderate volume. But there is no fan behind it to keep it cool. Not on my '02 anyway. Good idea though.

discofever

I was told this by my local dealer that there is a fan behind the radio cluster that automatically kicks on when it senses the need to cool down. I just called my service rep and he reconfirmed this. Now, I don't know if its right behind the radio or not, I haven't had the need to take everything apart. Maybe if I install the new interface by soundgate PIOGM1 to interface XM Radio I will look for it.

tblazed

I'd almost bet money they are getting it mixed up with a different older radio that does have a fan. No fan back there anywhere on these triplets shown in the manual, no fan I can find reaching in through the glove box opening.

Found a pic of one I had seen before that does have a fan, this from a '99 S-10. The inset is a front view. This is an older radio.

 

previousamigo

discofever,
I'm not an audiofile, but after seeing your post and doing a little research, is it possible to use the Soundgate product you mentioned and hook up a Pioneer XM antenna to a Pioneer XM tuner and then to an '02 TB LS radio (no cassette or video)without an FM modulator or that funny little external XM display box? Will the sound travel to the GM radio via wires and not FM, and it looks like all displays and buttons go through the '02 GM radio? (of course with a XM subscription...)

discofever

Previousamigo,

From my understanding, Soundgate developed a new interface Part# PIOGM1 (for Pioneer [XM Radio])& Part # KNGM1 (for Kenwood [sirus radio] that will interface with the some of the late model Delphi Bose Radios. This interface tricks the Delphi radio into revealing the satellite reading onto your radio display. NO FM modulation or the funky little display required!. You will also need to purchase the tuner for XM or Sirus.

the link to soundgate is http://www.soundgate.com/ Tweeter stores can order this interface for $130.00 - $140 or you can order directly from soundgate for $149

I just haven't decided if I want to go with Sirus or XM Radio? Any suggestions.

Estimated costs:

tuner $150
interface $149
antenna $40
= $339 plus and installation (or do it yourself)

Oh yes, XM or Sirus subscription required!

cparise1

I'd describe the normal sound of the ECAS compressor as something less than inspiring or robust, a person might describe it as "rattling", but it sounds the same in my wife's '98 Transport as it does in my '02 Envoy XL SLT so I wouldn't worry. Of course, use your own judgement-maybe something is wrong with it but the compressor sounds cheap--and it probably is--but experience tells me it doesn't matter because its dependable.

At 31K, I still love my Envoy XL SLT. No rattles, squeaks, everything still tight. That hydroforming really has made it a tight machine.

Chris

kudron

13418 of 13461 Kudron by elevatorguy Nov 25, 2003 (6:36 pm)
Thanks for the info. How many miles do you go between oil changes with the Mobil 1 and what type of driving do you do?

Thanks,
Todd

Todd,

Sorry for taking so long in replying but I was up north for the holiday.

I generally go between 5000 and 8000 miles between oil changes on my 02Envoy. The wifes car (01 Alero) I generally go between 4000 and 6000 miles. I do 95% of my driving on the freeway, my wife does 50%-50% highway/city. Her change oil light activates a lot faster than mine. Just for my peace of mind I send a sample to Blackstone after every oil change (mostly because of the potential piston slap issue on the Envoy).

Jim

aldan93

I had my drive shaft replaced at WestHerr Chevrolet in Hamburg NY, go to Www.westherr.com, Hamburg Chevrolet!!! The drivehshaft was replaced, the springs were also changed, and they did drill out some hard moldings on the muffler hangers. Vibration is mostly gone. 6-8 trips to dealer!!!!

bertman48

Thanks for the information aldan93!!! My dealer has replaced the muffler, springs, and put a dampner on the exhaust system. It still vibrates and hummmms at 58mph/1600RPM. For some reason, my dealer is not willing to put in a new drive shaft because the GM Engineers have not advised that repair. Hopefully, with the information that you provided, I will be able to convince them to put in a new drive shaft.

ficuss

There is a discussion on the Infiniti G35 (my other car) board that is very interesting. Many problems similar to ones we describe have been solved by improving the ground system of various cars. Anyone interested should go to the Infiniti G35 forum and read about the kits. Let us know if you think the kits would benefit the tripletts and the various problems we've been describing.

Frank

bertman48

Hey aldan93...did your dealer replace the springs, drive shaft, and exhaust bolt all at the same time or at different times? If at different times, which "fix" solved the virbrating/humming problem?

quickdtoo

FWIW, mine quit doing it when I bought new tires and wheels! Maybe a bad combination, I guess, 16" LS OEM wheels & tires. I've been expecting it to start again but I seldom drive at the speciific speed that I was getting the vibration. Now, *I* can't reproduce the vibration!

gam2

With all the discussion about oil lately, there was an interesting blurb in "Car Talk" in our local paper. A guy wrote in and said he drains the oil and then idles the engine for a minute
(without the drain plug) to get the last 1/2 quart out. Suffice to say they said the idiot light was made just for him! Can you believe it..........

GAM

cparise1

After a recent service for oil change, tire rotation, and annual lubrication (total $58--not bad), I began to hear a faint clicking or ticking noise. It was barely noticeable and only detectable while slowing down or under very light acceleration. The dealer diagnosed the noise as coming from the tach, which has few moving parts. He said he'd order a replacement part for me, not sure if its the entire tach. I don't care, its still under warranty anyway for another 4K. I think I've seen this problem in other posts, and the mechanic has seen (heard) this in other vehicles. It can be sporadic depending on the temperature I've been told.

'02 Envoy XL SLT, 32K.

Chris

cparise1

I've meant to post this since those discussions a few weeks ago but haven't had the time. My preference is non synthetic oil. I had a Saab once that I had driven almost 250K miles and I only used regular oil but changed it between 3-5K. My '97 Monte Carlo had 94K on it when I traded it and it was like new, also servicing the oil in the same way.

However, what would cause the head gaskets on a vehicle to dry out and need replacing? This happened on both the Saab and the Monte Carlo. Because of my trades, I never made the repairs but the dealers in both cases said the gaskets were beginning to leak.

How can I prevent this in my Envoy? Is the answer synthetic oil?

Chris

tmac8

Check out the Envoy Euro tail lights at x3racing.com. Has any one seen these up close, and are they worth getting. I have a black Envoy and was looking at the black lights. What does everyone think ?

ylab

Actually head gaskets can fail due to a variety of reasons. In some instances, the different expansion/contraction rates of the head and block materials to the subtrate of the gasket is a major contributor. (Aluminum head, iron block and steel gasket will eventually leak). This type of problem has been addressed by using gaskets with a variety of coatings such as teflon to prevent the gasket from being gradually scraped through by the expansion/contraction of the materials. GM in the 80s & early 90's even required the use of a coolant additives to help prevent & seal head gasket leaks on engines with aluminum heads.

Other causes can include faulty gaskets either through manufacture or design, as well as impropper installation. In other instances the warping of a head can result in the gasket leaking, overheating an engine and thin cylinder wall designs requiring very narrow gaskets tend to burn through more quickly under constant heavy load. Much of just how long an engine survives before developing those types of leaks is strictly a design and assembly issue. In short, there isn't a whole lot we can do to prevent a head gasket leak from eventually. - Yes there are basic things, like ensuring we don't overheat the engine or constantly accelerate by flooring the throttle (high cylinder pressure) but beyond that generally not a whole lot and the type of oil isn't going to be a factor. (Basically the oil doesn't come into contact with the areas of a head gasket which tends to leak - usually a combustion or coolant leak).

Ray

redline65

Noticed about 6 or 7 stations I like are now broadcasting artist and title here in the Dallas area.

tblazed

Yep noticed 92.5 has theirs going now. Sat night the song titles were scrolling across the display. Yesterday (Sunday) morning they were playing a syndicated program between 8 and 9 AM. Apparently they didn't have anything programmed at the station for the RDS to display, so it just sat there blank! No station ID., no freq numbers, nothing but the clock, and a blank RDS display on the radio

01_hoe

I have a set of these tail lights on my '03 Envoy. Some days I like them, some days I don't. But to me anything beats the slab sided OEM's.
I'd post a pic if I knew how.
I got mine off Ebay from Mr. Motorsports. Considerable savings from x3racing price.

aldan93

Bertman, after the drive shaft was replaced!!!
the last visit!!! They had told me it was in spec. but changed it anyway! Its very annoying especially when its cold out side, The shaft was actually within GM specified tolerance but was sending out a vibe between 45-60MPH HMMMMM, slight vibe on feet. GOOD LUCK!!!

brunopuntzjone

I need to give the car a wash and read a lot of references in the manual about lubricating the weather stripping around the doors and sunroof. Any particular ones to use or stay away from? I have some...I want to say 40 wt. 100% silicone drops I use on o-rings for some hobby stuff. Figured that stuff was fine but wanted to check here first.

cparise1

I am saving up to replace my head gasket.

Chris

cparise1

I bought a generic brand of silicone spray and use it at least once a month in the summer and as often as the weather allows in the winter. I spray it on a clean cloth and then apply. I notice the doors seem to seal a little better after application. This is not to say the doors seal bad to start with.
Chris

cparise1

For some of you folks that are of a mechanical mind I'd like to pose this question. Does it make sense to replace the fan clutch at the same time the water pump fails or vice versa? I'd like to keep my '02 Envoy XL SLT well past 100K and am trying to prevent head gasket failure as long as possible--yet eventual head gasket failure sounds inevitable from what I've read.

Any thoughts out there?

Chris

n7don

"However, what would cause the head gaskets on a vehicle to dry out and need replacing? This happened on both the Saab and the Monte Carlo. Because of my trades, I never made the repairs but the dealers in both cases said the gaskets were beginning to leak."

Could the dealer meant manifold gasket rather than head gasket? This family of engines used in the Monte Carlo, namely the 60deg V6, have a history of manifold gasket failures. Just replaced them on a 93K mile 98 Pontiac van w/3.4L engine. I've also replaced the manifold gasket on a 4.3L S10. In both case a coolant leak was evident.
As an added comment, I had previously changed the Dexcool (extended life anti-freeze) in the van at about 2.5 yrs even though the recommended interval was 5yrs/150000miles. Again I put in fresh Dexcool when I replaced the manifold gasket. While the engine was apart I checked the coolant passages for any evidence of corrosion and changed the water pump. (easier to replace at this time) For all practical purposes, there wasn't any and the water pump looked as good as the new.... so I intend to change the Envoy's coolant before 5 yrs.

kwalker1313

Any suggestions for extension mirrors? Towing 19' 8' wide trailer. (Apparently heated mirrors make a difference)

bradrx7

My 2003 TB EXT headliner is squeaking around the center storage area. Anyone else experiencing this? I'm going to take out the storage console this weekend and check out what's behind it and try to insulate the drop-down part's hinges. Damn thing about drives me crazy until I crank up Rage Against the Machine about halfway on the Bose to drown it out. <g>