Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

quickdtoo

http://www.automotix.com/rebuilt_engines/plymouth-superbird-1969-- engines---MOP-440LB.html

quickdtoo

May be hideous, but I'd say you're incorrect.

http://automobileart.homestead.com/ClassicCarArt3.html

scottc454

1970 was the first year for the Plymouth Superbird.
That painting is mislabelled.

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/plymouth-superbird/plymou- - th-superbird-history.shtml

http://aerowarriors.com/daysb.html

outbackpaul

I've been looking for other Envoy forums but can't find any. Are there others?

Thanks,
Paul

tidester

You might be interested in GMC Envoy Owners: Accessories & Modifications, GMC Envoy Owners: Photo Gallery or GMC Envoy: Prices Paid & Buying Experience.

There wasn't much action in the GMC Envoy discussion which is now archived due to lack of participation. It's possible to reopen that discussion if there is renewed interest.

Please note that promoting other auto forums is not allowed on edmunds.com's Towh Hall message boards.

tidester, host

aldan93

Well I just cranked my TB over at around -4F -25F windchill, it was the loudest ever!! But very common, and goes away in 2-4 seconds!! Changing over to a cold climate power steering fluid might help, but you bet your butt I won't change until this spring its too friggin COLD!!!!!

aldan93

It would be cool, except you would actually have to exit your vehicle to get your hamburger/coffee, NO WAY!!!

2k_impala_ls

Same here in the northeast,below zero temps and I get the startup noise. Do these has some type of voltage delay built in for cold weather. When it is 20 degrees or lower, my voltage gauge only goes up to about 8v for about 5 seconds then to full power. I think this is planned because the delay is the same every time. watch your gauge to see if yours does this also. (the lights are dim also during the delay then get bright)

2k_impala_ls

Wind Chill only effects living things, not cars or TB's, so it is only the tempature that counts.
http://www.w3.weather.com/weather/local/12211

its only -7°F but it Feels Like -29°F

kpp14

“Wind Chill only effects living things”….not true. It increases heat transfer. Your truck will more likely overheat in a traffic jam standing still than with the same temperature of air rushing through the rad at hiway speeds? The frozen food in your refrigerator is typically “flash frozen” in blast freezers (howling winds and low temps) in order not to hold up production lines. You are right however it has no effect on the metal itself. Windchill will however dissipate any heat given off by metal more rapidly causing marginally longer warm up time.
Bye the way, do any of you use the plug in beside the battery? Does it actually work? Host would you add a description of the start up noise to our list. Eventually we will send the whole orchestra to GM.

fsv

Incedently, is overheating a problem for a 5.3L TB? I read in some magazine, that it tends to overheat...

tblazed

OK, OK, you guys passed the test!

It was the 1969 1/2 Dodge Charger Daytona that came out first, followed later in '70 by the Plymouth Superbird. They built 503 of these Dodge beasts in '69. Same rear wing and nose cone. They built 1920 Superbirds in '70, so the likelihood of me finding a rear wing for my Trailblazer is slim at best. DRATS!!

tblazed

"May I ask you, what mileage you've got on the car,"

I don't drive a lot (plus I have an '88 S-10 pickup I drive too,) so "almost" 10,000 miles now on the TB and today is it's second anniversary. I plan to keep it a long time too, like the S-10. S-10 btw just rolled over 97,000 mi., owned it since new, bought June '88.

"and how many miles you get on a gallon?"

averages about 14 mpg all in-town stop-and-go driving, got 22.05 mpg on all-highway driving on a 300 mi trip.

kgbkahnk

tblazed, I think you and I must be automotive kindred spirits. My TB just had its 2-year anniversary on Tuesday, and it's got 10,500 miles on it. My daily driver is a '92 Accord that I've owned since new and now has 217,000+ miles. I plan to keep my TB for a long, long time, so I'm nursing the Honda along, ever so gently to help keep the miles off the TB as long as possible.

ficuss

2k impala, one reason the volt meter reads only 8 volts for after starting is that when the battery is very cold, the available power is reduced considerably. The battery actually has less capacity to start the car when it is cold. The measured voltage can drop below 9 volts during cranking. You are basically putting a direct short across the battery when attempting to start a very cold car. The starter has much more load on it during that time. What you are seeing is the battery coming back to full charge when the alternator starts spinning. Other cars with an amp meter may show high current being delivered to the battery to replenish what was used to start the car. Either way, it is normal and nothing to worry about. The battery is only used to start the car, as long as it starts the car it's ok.

Frank

fsv

22 mpg - is not bad at all; Maxima with 3.5 is not better than TB; amaizing.

tblazed

That's with the 3.42 rear gear ratio. Engine turns about 1950 RPM at 70 mph. Just crusin' along at that rate. Not much faster than at a fast idle!

ross1962_99

"...so the likelihood of me finding a rear wing for my Trailblazer is slim at best. DRATS!!"

Oh, I'm sure you could rig something up with some plywood and duct tape!

ross1962_99

Proving once more that no one knows wind chill better than a Canadian! ;-)

ficuss

"Windchill will however dissipate any heat given off by metal more rapidly causing marginally longer warm up time." kpp14, you are mistakingly confusing wind and windchill. Windchill is only mentioned when the combinaton of cold and wind is dangerous to exposed flesh. It is the word "wind" in your sentence above that provides the rapid cooling. It may apply in a closed system such as a freezer, where the heat must be transferred to the outside to cause freezing. I doubt that metal would cool outside in the winter any faster with or without a breeze.
 The Triplets should warm up much quicker since they have aluminum engine blocks. When they are shut off, they will cool quicker because of the same aluminum blocks. Less mass to warm and less mass to hold the heat.

BTW, we know wind chill in Chicago also

Frank

gam2

Ficuss, Metal will definately cool quicker outside with a breeze. It's a basic law of thermodynamics. The metal will never get colder than the absolute temperature, but how long it takes to get there depends on how strong the breeze. The more air you can push thru a radiator, the more it can cool, hence fans. Fanshrouds force the air thru the radiator opening
for maximum cooling.

GAM

BTW, we make radiators, oil coolers, etc. where I work.

tidester

It's a basic law of thermodynamics.

The basic law is that heat will flow from an area of higher temperature to where the temperature is lower. You are referring to the rate at which heat flows which depends on the temperature gradient, e.g. Newton's Law of Cooling. What the wind does is to maintain the greatest possible temperature gradient by quickly removing air from the near the metal surface which has already been warmed and replacing it with cold (unheated) air.

tidester, host

offroad57

both trailblazers has the 3.73 rear end.my brother was driving last week and got caught by 8 redlights on the same street.each time he took off he would snap my neck,he then asked what was wrong.said he couldnt take off smooth same thing with other driver.it does idle kinda rough every morning when cold.and the volt meter stops on about 8-9 volts for about 10 seconds then it will waver between 12-15 volts until it warms up.never did see the 02 do that.

ficuss

one reason wind chill is not mentioned as affecting metal is that metal will chill to the temperature of the air it is in, wind or no wind it can get only as cold as the ambient air. Exposed skin on the other hand (no Pun) feels colder than the ambient air when exposed to cold + wind because of the more rapid evaporation of skin moisture. Your car may cool quicker in the winter but it will never get colder than the ambient air it is in. Starting your car at 0 dg. with a -50 dg. wind chill is the same as starting the car at 0 dg. with no wind.

outbackpaul

Hey, I'm thinking about buying an Envoy and was wondering if the compressor problems I've been reading about on the 01's and 02's have been fixed?

Also I drive on the beach several times a year and have to air back up after driving on the soft sand. Is the compressor in the rear much better than those 12v small ones you can get in the stores pretty cheap? I wouldn't want to spend that much money on this option only to have to spend excess time airing back up.

Thanks,
Paul

kpp14

Now wait a minute, ross1962-99 said that Canadians (chime in any time guys) are the experts on windchill.

“wind chill is an effect” ,”you are mistakenly confusing wind and windchill” Actually ficuss it has units and is quantifiably….more than a effect. Check the model they use in your military for windchill. You should find that it is the same as ours (I think we have an army somewhere?)….here you go.

Windchill = 13.12 + 0.6215 x T (air temp) – 11.37 x Velocity (0.16 / 10 meters) + 0.3965 x T (air temp) x Velocity (0.16 / 10 meters)

“Starting your car at 0 dg. with a -50 dg. wind chill is the same as starting the car at 0 dg. with no wind” Right you are! However once it starts generating heat the dissipation of that heat due to the windchill is greater.
Tidester, some companies of insulated wall assemblies include an “warm air film” found on the surface of their products as part of their overall “R-value”. Consumer beware!

ficuss

the calculation was changed recently due to the fact that a column of water that was being used as a standard since 1945 was found to act differently than exposed flesh. My point was to draw a distinction between how skin reacts to cold + wind (wind chill factor) and how a Trailblazer reacts to the same. I've had 1 car that reacted poorly to the cold. My first Ford van had very brittle plastic in the heater/defroster vacuum control module. When the temp dipped to -27 dg. F. in 1982 or 83 the plastic valve broke into pieces when I went to adjust the air flow. It was very cold that morning. The wind chill that day was -87 dg. f. BTW the van started.

Frank

aldan93

We have been talking a lot of gibberish lately seems everyone has cabin fever!!!

scottc454

Geez, a lot of discussion on wind chill.
tidester is 100% correct
ficuss is mostly correct except for one sentence - metal will cool quicker with a breeze (because a breeze will quickly remove any air that the metal has heated, replacing it with colder air, maximizing the temperature gradient, etc. - rather like the opposite of a convection oven)

In reality, this isn't all that relevant. For all intents and purposes, your triplet does not feel wind chill and doesn't care about the wind.
Airflow improves the efficiency of your radiator, but most of the time you'll be driving faster than the wind.
Anway, that's what thermostats are for. If it's too cold, the thermostat blocks the flow of coolant through the radiator so it stays in the engine until it reaches a certain temperature.
Therefore, wind has no real effect. That's why these things tend to stay at a constant 210 degrees F. It would have to to be an absolute reverse hell before they couldn't generate enough heat to get to 210 without the radiator.

I maintain that windchill is an inexact thing and is generally a way of communicating how cold it feels to a human. I ski so I'm all too familiar with this.

kpp14

Why then does GM insulate the hood of your truck? An attempt to keep the heat in?

ficuss

perhaps to keep the noise in, or to keep the hood paint from blistering from the heat of the engine.
 One LAST thing (from me) on wind chill. A breeze can cool some THING down to ambient temperature, but without evaporation, a breeze will not chill some THING below ambient temp. I have yet to chill a bottle of wine by exposing it to a breeze on the kitchen table.

gam2

Tidester,

You are correct. I was referring to thermodynamics in very generic terms. I will say this, our local TV stations sure love windchill. Sometimes that's all they talk about. Hell, they even closed some schools around here last year because the windchill was -20 degrees, even though the actual temp was 0-5 degrees! I see Packer fans without their shirts in that weather!

GAM

lurker01

Went to the dealer for the jittering wiper issue.
Showed them how it happens only when in intermittent mode.

They said the rain sensor and the control unit were fine but the motor needed to be replaced. Since I am at 40k and therefore out of warrenty, they want $315 to do it.

I don't understand how the wiper motor can work fine in normal and fast settings but not in intermittent settings. Sounds like a controller issues to me.

I told them about the recall investigation and they said they never heard of it.

Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions?

thanks,

-John

ficuss

go to The nhtsa web site: www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/remmy1.cfm
enter nhtsa campaign 98v150001. This pertains to chevy light duty truck windshield wiper intermittent problems. It does not specifically mention the tripletts, but the problem sounds very similar. I had my wiper motor replaced during the warranty period for the same problem. I can't find the service order which may have stated the exact remedy for the problem. The nhtsa considers it a safety issue. Call Chevy cust service at 1-800-822-1020 and start a claim. Politely mention to them that it is a safety issue and remind them that the problem has been around Chevy for a long time. My guess is that they will replace the wiper motor for you at no cost.

Good luck

Frank

tblazed

"I don't understand how the wiper motor can work fine in normal and fast settings but not in intermittent settings. Sounds like a controller issues to me."

The wiper motor control board is inside the wiper motor housing, which sits under the cowel vents, exposed to the elements. It uses an IC that takes the turn signal stalk control switch signal, which consists of a multi position switch that sets different voltages to the control IC by selecting a point in a resistor-ladder circuit, so each wiper speed-mode is a specific voltage, input to that controller IC. The IC then drives a couple of relays that control the motor. What happens is, water gets inside the motor cover-housing, and the edge of the circuit board sits in water and slowly corrodes away at the circuit traces. Also the water will be dirty, contaminated and slightly conductive, so it will cause erratic things to happen and voltage leakage between pins of components etc. It doesn't take much conduction to cause problems. Not good. $315 to fix a known recurring safety related problem is also not good.

There is a vent in the top of the wiper motor cover, but no DRAIN hole in the bottom to let out any water that might get in! That is the cause of the problem IMO.

Add your complaint to NHTSA's list. And save your receipts! Possibly you can get reimbursed for repairs if it becomes a NHTSA safety recall.

lurker01

I tried the nhtsa web site, but their recall page seems to be down right now. I'll try again later.

To me the cost is not the issue, if this was something that is expected to wear out. But in this case, they made a defective part and should replace it for the lifetime of the truck if they don't come up with a redesign.

tblazed - thanks for the technical summary. btw: all water is conductive, not just dirty water! ;-)

I'll take my case to the dealer again ( the manager was out of town last week) and see if they will work with me.

-John

tblazed

Only if it has something dissolved in it. Pure or deionized water doesn't conduct. Put 1 grain of salt in a beaker full, and it will then pass a small current- conduct. Doesn't take much "contamination" to make water conductive.

Anyway, hope that helps. You might start a case with GMC customer service too. I bought a used wiper motor and took it apart just to see what was going on. That how I know what happens.

tidester

btw: all water is conductive, not just dirty water! ;-)

Actually, distilled water is a very poor conductor of electricity.

tidester, host

scottc454

I too have the wiper problem, although it has gone into hibernation for the winter.

How hard is it to get at the wiper motor? How do those cowl vents come off? It doesn't sound like it'd be too hard to fix it, providing it isn't too corroded.

GM should stand behind their products and fix this one for free. Obvious defect.

tblazed

You have to pull off the wiper arms, then take off the cowl to get to it. I was going to look at mine but the plastic caps on the arm nuts wouldn't come off without breaking I thought, so I stopped. Can email you specific instructions if you want.

"GM should stand behind their products and fix this one for free. Obvious defect."

Absolutely.

lurker01

The best I could do was to get them to pay for 33%. I'm going to demand they give me the old part so I can try ot get reimbursed when the recall is announced.

If you are under warrenty, get a new wiper motor asap!

-John

previousamigo

So I purchased the LTZ 17" wheels for my LS. I don't want crome or "bling bling". Will putting on OE 245-65-17 tires cause speedo differences with the computer becase the tires are just slightly bigger than the LS 16"? Are the computers different for tire rotations for speed between the LS and LTZ?

What is the biggest tire you can fit on the OE 17" LTZ wheels without rubbing or computer/speedo problems? I see the Rainer has 255-60-17's (slightly wider but shorter?) I did a search but this did not answer my questions for the 17". I don't want to use spacers.

BTW, I did find a stereo store that will use the SoundGate interface to run XM radio through the factory stereo. After that, it's on to the Hotchins bigger rear sway bar and front bushings. Maybe I should have just purchased an '04???

kram18

How Chevy deals with this is the trucks that come with the 17" wheels have 245x60x17 and trucks with 16's come with 245x65x16, keeping the same diameter (and same PCM programming) for both. Anything bigger than a 245x60x17 is going mess with speedo/computer (not a whole lot but it will mess with it, I went from a 245x65x16 to 265x75x16 and my speedo is off by ~4mph @ highway speed and hasn't changed the way anything computer related works, i.e. abs)

-Mark

quickdtoo

I have Alba aftermarket 17" wheels w/OEM backspacing and 275x60x17 Toyo Proxes ST tires that are 29.99" in diameter, just a shade larger than the OEM sizes. I have ~1/2" clearance at the upper control arm, don't think any wider or larger tire would fit without changing to a different backspacing. The speedo is right on according to my GPS, it was a little slower with the 16" OEM wheels/tires.

cparise1

http://trucks.about.com/cs/truckrecalls/a/gmtruckrecall.htm

The article clearly states that GM is recalling certain vehicles for lurker's problem. I did a msn search on "gm wiper motor recall". How much more obvious could it be to the service manager? Print it out and bring it to the dealer.

Chris

luvmytralblazr

My trailblazer has been in the shop since last Tuesday. There is a rattle underneath it when it is under torque. The first three times we took it in, they couldn't hear it. The last time, my husband took the Service Mgr. for a ride and he definitely heard it. They can't find the problem and are supposedly flying a GM Tech to the dealership to help. They've even taken the top of the engine off to look (for a rattle under the truck???) Does anyone know what happens if they can't find the problem since the lemon law only goes to 15,000 miles (and mine has 35,500)? BTW, they gave me a Toyota Corrolla as a rental, I REALLY MISS MY TRAILBLAZER! Thanks for your help.

Kirstie_H

Don't forget tonight's open chat -- Our topic tonight is "Driving distractions: what makes you a bad driver?"



http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

tblazed

When I 1st got my '02 TB it had two rattles. I fixed both myself. (I always investigate these kind of things first because they are usually something simple. If that fails, then I take it to the dealer, but that's just me.)

One was an electrical connector that was lightly touching the bottom floor pan of the transmission "hump" - would rattle against the bottom of the truck especially when in gear, stopped. Secured it away with a cable tie wrap. No more noise from that.

Second rattle was a heat shield, at one corner lightly touching against the transmission case. Found that one by lightly tapping around on the shields and various parts with a rubber mallet until I found it. Shield is between the cat converter-exhaust pipe and the trans. Bent the corner of that shield out away from the trans case, noise #2 gone.

sildog

Still totally disgusted with my 02 2wd TB. I have now gone 30 entire days without having to have it repaired! That is only becuase once you start paying for repairs yourself, you get a little less picky!!! Somebody asked if I knew when the tie rod end design change happened. The interesting thing was, the parts guy didn't know! I gave them the VIN and they still had to have the truck to measure it-then they could order it! They said it is common to have running changes without VIN number tracing. I think that is crap! If they had to recall due to some bad tie rod end, how would they know which VINs were affected? At least I got the satisfaction of asking the service manager (who previously told me it failed because I didn't grease it enough) to show me in person where the grease fittings were. I guess they didn't teach him that in his 5 million hours of Mr GoodScrew Training!!!

There is a transition in every new vehicle owner's life: The day the warranty runs out. Under warranty, I made sure every little thing got fixed! Now that I am paying, I guess I'll have to live with that annoying rattle in the driver door that just showed up! And the fact that I replace headlights and tail lights every 2 months. And I am sure the other tie rod end is going to puke any time now. I used to take great pride in keeping my cars nice. Keeping this thing nice is a full time job-and since I already have one of those.... At this rate, in 12 months, the thing won't be fit for Fred Sanford to drive around in, and I will still have 2 years to pay on it! Of course, even though I put money down, the resale is so rank that I can't even get out from under it without paying somebody to take it away!!!! This has really been a depressing ownership experience. My wife refuses to drive it because the last two times she drove it, something happened! Once it just died at a stoplight and wouldn't start for 5 minutes (dealer could not reproduce) and the other time, the entire dash went dead! They say they fixed that. Meanwhile, her 99 Jetta with 80K miles hasn't even been to the shop ONCE for ANYTHING but scheduled maintenance. Every night I say a little prayer that a blizzard will hit, and the snow plow will clean the side of the thing right off! Then I can go get one of them there foe-reign cars everybody is talking about!!! Anybody, PLEASE! Just offer me what I owe and she is yours, no questions asked! If you squeeze her over a nice scotch & water, it will provide just the right "twist" of flavor!!!!!

ficuss

I'm on your side with your opinions of the tripletts, or at least your 2 wd TB. But we should be fair, We've been ragging about these beasts for nearly 2 years, just about from the beginning. Except for the opinions of a few G.M. apologists, one theme has rung throughout that time. these tripletts will cost a fortune to repair after the warranty period. There was no denying it then and there is no denying it now. The first thing I did after my engine was replaced at 2000 miles was buy an extended warranty from G.M. As much as I hated spending more money to buy the warranty, I figured any one major problem repaired after warranty would pay for the warranty, after that it would be money saved. Years ago, I bought a used Chevy van and drove it to a trusted mechanic to have it checked out. The front end was in his opinion falling apart. this was at 45k miles. He said Chevy Van front ends were essentially the same as Chevy compact car front ends. I returned the van to the dealer and have never thought about buying a Chevy van since. As far as resale goes, last year I asked if a 7 yr. old 4300 lb. TB will be worth more than 4300 lbs. of empty beer cans, what do you think.