Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

blink3

Well, just as an outsider looking in on your "surging" situation, You guys that all having this same problem should list what options you all have and find a common thread and perhaps a cause of this. So far it looks as if most of you have the rear air suspension and the 4.10 gear. How about 4wd? There has to be a combination here that is making this surge situation happen. Have you tried replacing fluids in the trans., rear diff and transfer case if 4x4? I dont know, just trying to help. Hate to hear people having the same problem with no resolution.

imadad2

I read yesterday that GM has installed little black boxes in 2004 models to track speed, braking, etc. I am convinced, even though I cannot prove it, that there is some time of GPS sensor in it as well. I don't want to sound like a "Big Brother" paranoid weirdo, but is this black box necessary for my TB to function? I'd like to disable it.

01_hoe

If you have OnStar you have a GPS in vehicle.

tblazed

AS I understand it just about every GM vehicle since OBD2 came out in 1996 has a function that records the last 5 seconds of things like RPM, Throttle position, Brake status, Vehicle speed, Air Bag status etc., built into the computer. An "Event Data Recorder".

seiford

Ours:
   '03 Envoy SLT (I6)
   4x4
   3.73 gears
   locking diff.
   auto-leveling susp.

cbwilsha

The EDR (Event Data Recorder) on the Envoy is located under the center console.

C.B.

01_hoe

Mine:
'03 Envoy SLT (I6)
4X4
4.10 gears
Locking diff (G80)
auto-level susp
OEM factory fluids no changes yet
17K miles

02envoyowner

Boy, this is a terrific resource. While I'm sorry to see that others are having this problem, it's reassuring to have help toward a solution.

Mine:
'02 Envoy SLT (I6)
4X4
4.10 gears
Locking diff (G80)
auto-level susp
34K miles

One interesting note. To me, if a surging car is not a safety issue, what is?! I was told that if the dealership (whose unable to diagnose/correct the problem) deems the car safe, GM is not concerned. I have certainly not given up on determining what will make me happy on this -- will certainly post as things progress.

Again, thanks for the feedback!

hardhawk

2002 Envoy SLT
4X4
I6
4.10 rear axle
ECAS suspension
locking diff
bought 7/01
40,000 miles
problem didn't surface until car over a year old
tow a 5000# boat during the summer months back & forth to the lake (20 miles) and once per summer to large lake 200 miles away.

02envoyowner

All, it occurred to me that those who have this problem and have not opened a case with GM Customer Service may wish to do so. I have the name/number of the rep that I have been working with -- might be a good idea for all of us to file with one person{?}

Not sure of the board rules, whether I can publish this info here or not. If so, I'd be glad to. If not, I could email to those interested. Thanks!

tidester

From the Rules of the Road, which you can review by clicking on the link at the top of this page:

"Town Hall does not support the publication of phone numbers in posts or user profiles. There is no way Edmunds.com can validate that a phone number is legitimate, and is not being posted to harass someone."

tidester, host

01_hoe

Please email me the name/number of the GM Customer service rep. TIA.

aldan

Here is my humble opinion, Power is being taken away from the power brakes when the tranny shifts in 1st gear, causing a sudden loss of pressure/braking thus causing a "LURCH", I would be interested to see if it happens when you slam down on the brakes? If you are a person that keeps very very light pressure at stopping, the shifting of the tranny might cause this lurch?

02envoyowner

Noted; thanks Tidester.
Glad to email contact information to anyone who posts a request.

paulyjsob

I have this surging problem as well. It only occurs when the car is cold and at the first stop light I hit.

2003 Envoy SLE
4x4
3.73
32000 miles

scottc454

Power is being taken away from the power brakes when the tranny shifts in 1st gear, causing a sudden loss of pressure/braking thus causing a "LURCH",

I can't see this being the case. The brakes get their power from your foot. The vacuum from the engine just assists your foot, and I can't see the vacuum going low enough to have an effect. Anyway, that doesn't matter because the power booster stores vacuum. You still have power brakes even if the car stalls.

Could it be as simple as the idle being high? I've noticed that in the cold, the idle stays over 1000 RPM's for quite a while.

blink3

Very good point! I have felt this on mine. I just think the brakes SUCK! Worst feeling brakes on any vehicle I have owned and I have owned roughly 39 vehicles. On my list for warranty work.

sostrouble

2002 Envoy SLT
4X4
I6
4.10 rear axle
ECAS suspension
locking diff
bought 4/01
24,000 miles
only in cold weather

Also, GMC Customer service will not cover frozen calipers. They say I failed to grease brake slides every 15,000 miles. And as the GMC Customer Service Supervisor stated, "That is my final answer!" It happened at 23,5XX miles.

adamjeeps

Could someone, anyone, show me where, in any manual, you are required to do this in 15,000 mile intervals? I seriously doubt it. Amazing.

tblazed

Lookig in my 2002 TrailBlazer Owner's manual, Part C: Periodic Maintenance Inspections, it does mention inspecting the Brake System twice a year, for binding, leaks, cracks, calipers, parking brake etc. You might want to check your GMC manual to make sure.

adamjeeps

I just read this section. This inspection is to be performed by the dealer. Even so, inspection of the calipers, in my opinion, does not constitute removing the two caliper pins and checking for lubrication. This would be checked from visual inspection for leaks around the calipers. I am not a service tech, but to me an inspection means a visual examiniation, not an overhaul of the brake system. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

sostrouble

My dealer inspected my brakes everytime I had the tires rotated, about every 5000 - 6000 miles. He did not notice any problems. But the caliper on the rear passenger side froze at 23,000 miles. My service manager said that the brake slides should be checked when you have your brakes changed, not taken apart everytime inspected. I still had more than 50% left on the rest of the pads.

tblazed

I took a look in my service manual, and all it says is basically the same thing your service manager told you- the brake caliper guide pins should be cleaned (with alcohol) and lubricated (with a high temp silicone grease) any time the calipers are taken off, either when replacing pads, the calipers, or some related hardware, but absolutely nothing specific about a twice-annual disassembly and re-lubing of the caliper guide pins. Doing all four wheels, that would cost probably $65-85 for a one hour minimum in most shops. There is no way as per the information in the service manual to visually inspect the pins without disassembly. I think you have a good reason to pursue a warranty repair.

ficuss

tblazed, are you saying a brake job consisting of new pads and labor would be the cost of new pads plus $65-$85? My 02 TB brakes were pulsing a few months ago. My dealer replaced 3 of the 4 rotors for free. He did charge me for new pads all around. I was given the impression GM was replacing rotors on tripletts as needed under warranty. This is with 25k miles.

tblazed

No what I said has nothing to do with your brakes, Texas labor rates (whatever that means) and I have no idea how much labor time a dealer charges for a full brake job. I can tell you how long it takes ME to do a brake job.
 
I was pointing out to those concerned about not getting warranty work on their brakes, after researching it in the service manual, it is not very practical nor is it specifically mentioned as a twice year maintenance item to disassemble the brake calipers every 6 months to inspect movement and check the grease on the pins, and that it would cost money to do that. Time is money in most shops. $130-175 a year to inspect the brake caliper pins?? A few years of that and you've paid for a complete brake job. Maybe they can do it in a half-hour and charge accordingly.

They charged you for your pads and put them on with the rest of the work they were doing for you in warranty, so you got a break on the labor. Why exactly did you have to pay for one rotor? Why didn't you get all 4 free?

adamjeeps

So, according to your service manager, it was your fault the caliper froze even though the brakes were inspected every few months and he admitted that the slides only need to checked when brake pads or rotors are changed? I hate seeing someone have to pay for something that seems to clearly be a warranty issue. Maybe I am just lucky to have a good customer friendly service department.

scottc454

I just did the brakes on my Trailblazer. The caliper pins are sealed. There's nothing to grease.

tblazed

I am going by what the service manual says and it shows the caliper guide pin and bushing, and where to apply the grease and what kind of grease to use. Haven't had a reason to take mine apart yet.

tblazed

Arrows point to surfaces where grease goes...

sostrouble

My dealers agrees with me that GM should cover the repairs. They would have fought for me. The problem is that I had to take the envoy to another dealer because most of the dealers in St. Louis were on strike for over 10 weeks. I had let my envoy set for over two weeks, but couldn't wait any longer, I had to leave town. The GM Goodwrench dealer that performed the work is the one that told GM Customer Service that I failed to maintain my envoy. Two Customer service people and one GM Customer Service Supervisor said it was my fault. And "That was his final answer."

tblazed

"Two Customer service people and one GM Customer Service Supervisor said it was my fault. And "That was his final answer."

Conclusion: there is no documentation specifying routine maintenance of disassembling and lubricating the caliper guide pins. Period. You need to keep going UP the supervisory ladder. Sounds like a breach of contract to me. How about any local TV News consumer affairs reporter that might be interested in GM not standing behind their warranty and letting "Customer Service" supervisors run off customers. Know a lawyer? If you have a lawyer you have done business with you might give that person a call for a little legal advice. Sometimes one phone call or a brief one page demand letter is all it takes to get things moving in your direction. Good luck with it!

ficuss

I should have said it another way, they replaced 3 for free, the fourth rotor did not need replacing.

ingeniousguy

Hello Everyone,

I have a question concerning my 2003 Envoy V8 that now has 32,000 miles. I've noticed from day one that the transmission would sometimes have a hard time negotiating second gear and would sloppily slam into gear. The problem seemed to have diminished as the miles went on, but I think that it's more frequent now then ever.

Just as mentioned in post #14643, I've brought this up to my dealer and they always cannot duplicate the problem? It's very odd. I've been attempting to analyze this problem more and it seems as if the sloppy shift occurs when taking a turn and accelerating at the same time. OR.. sometimes you are rolling slow enough and accelerate and the tranny will downshift to 2nd gear abruptly?

Also, I think that either I am having trouble with the rear differential or the transmission concerning slipping and so forth? A couple of times I've accelerated to find the vehicle trying to get into the correct gear (probably 2nd gear) and the RPM gauge going up and back down again.. Another issue is that it sometimes feels as if it goes into second gear, followed by another shift that doesn't affect the RPM gauge? It kinda seems as if the tranny goes into 2nd gear and then the differential does something that in turn creates this extra "bump" like the tranny has shifted twice?

All in all, I only experience the problems going from first to second gear. Everything else seems to be okay? Anyone have any ideas? I plan to raise cain at the dealership this week about it and demand that they keep it until they are able to find the problem. Oh.. I also did the 30K maintenance and had them specifically replace the locking differential fluid. The shifting seemed to improve quite a bit, but after about a week "IT's BACK!"

Help!!

IngeniousGuy

ross1962

Just installed this on my 2WD TB yesterday. Man, what a difference! I was afraid the urethane bushings would make the ride too harsh, but haven't seen that at all. The ride is much more firm, but no more than a normal truck/SUV should be. I felt the TB ride was way too mushy and this fixed it.
I would caution any of you that like to take your TB offroad that the stiffer anti-sway bar will not allow the rear suspension to articulate as far as before, but how many of us take our offroading to any extreme anyway?

obl

I Have 33,000 miles on my TBEXT and was wondering about buying an extension of the warranty. GMAC wants 3300 dollars at this point. WYNN wants 1950 dollars and I am concerned that I might not even need to worry about an extended warranty. It is a gamble thing. I hope the quality of the vehicle is such that no major problems will occur in 100,000 miles. Could I have an opinion on this please. TKS, OBL

01_hoe

Have you checked with Black (an internet source for GM warranties) for a price?

ingeniousguy

Buy the warranty or a warranty to say the least, this ensures you piece of mine on a vehicle that has not been rated that great in terms of reliability. I preferred the GM because I knew that the coverage was very broad to say the least. There isn't much outside of the ordinary that is excluded from their warranty package.

This is my 2nd Envoy and my 2003 is much better than my 2002 model. Although, the 2003 isn't trouble-free, I have 33K on the odometer and there's been some pretty strange things going on that have concerned me. At least I'm covered for 5yrs/75,000 miles GMPP with no deductible.

Good luck!

Ingeniousguy

hammen2

There's an Extended Warranty discussion over at the Finance board here on Edmunds.

The conventional wisdom is that you are better off with a manufacturer-backed warranty than a third-party. The third-party warranties are far cheaper, but they usually do not cover as well as the factory warranties, and you are taking a risk that the third-party warranty company will stay in business (witness Warranty Gold, for lots of pain/gnashing of teeth).

Regarding the triplets, I'd be concerned enough about the way the vehicle is engineered/packaged that I wouldn't keep our Envoy past 36k without extending its warranty. That's my plan. You can get pricing from Black Pontiac Cadillac (http://www.gmoutlet.com) or Capper Auto Center (http://www.capperautocenter.com). You can then optionally take their price quotes to your local dealer and ask them to match, or come close - most would rather get the business than let it go somewhere else.

Hope this helps,

--Robert

ndmike88

I have an '03 TB. The battery light is starting to glow on the dash. Amp guage still shows 14.2. My question is if the battery is bad is it covered under the 3/36???Or are the batteries pro-rated?? Only have 15,000 miles on the TB.
Thanks

blink3

It really comes down to how mechanically inclined you are. If you can diagnose and/or fix things yourself, why waste $1900+ on a warranty? You could buy and whole motor and trans. for way less than that.

askbob

THERE IS IN MY HUMBLE OPINION NO INJECTION CLEANER THAT IS WORTH A DIME(to clean injectors on the car). I have been in the parts business for 35 years.

tblazed

Don't know about such a blanket statement. I have certainly had it work, and seen the results in the "fuel trim" readings with my OBD2 reader. And definitely felt the difference after running some through the system when my TB was having a rough idle episode two summers ago now. If you have any bottles of Chevron Techron laying around you don't want I will double that - TWO dimes each for 'em!

Just use a good quality gasoline with enough detergency in it and you shouldn't have to use injector cleaner. Unfortunately a lot of the gas out there has just the bare minimum detergency level, so a cleaner additive can work. Check out http://www.toptiergas.com/ for more details about what additives can do if there's enough in the gas to do the job.

bricklayertx

I have an 02 TB that will be 3 years old in Feb, 05. The battery died two weeks ago. Had to have it towed to the dealer. (They won't let you pull the battery for simple replacement). The new battery was covered under warranty. Same thing happened to me on a 2000 LeSabre, but I was able to talk the service mgr. into letting me pull and bring the battery in for an exchange. Seems like GM's battery supplier needs to get about 3-4 more months out of their batteries.

sgulfcove

I just bought my '04 T-blazer less than a week before the announcement on the news. The next day I was in to get the pinstriping put on and the salesman called service to ask about it. It was affirmed and an appt. set for this morning. When I got there, they told me there was no recall posted for my VIN. The recall is for CERTAIN '02-'04's. Which I take to mean that you aren't included until you start exhibiting the problem. I'll start compiling my documentation and sue the hell out of them if I get rear ended because the brake lights didn't work.

01_hoe

The taillamp problem has been around for several months now. Could it be GM built your TB with the non defective parts? If you are not covered in the recall, I would take it to mean that your vehicle has been manufactured with the upgraded components so no failure is expected.
Sueing the hell out of a manufacturer is a big reason why products cost so much these days.

stever

I think suits are a minor factor. The auto manufacturers have enough money to manipulate the legal system (those with lots of bucks can afford justice).

Domestic manufacturers likely have much bigger issues funding health care and pension plans for employees. I bet the recent fuel cost increases have had a bigger impact on the bottom line than defending against lemon cases. Anyone have a costs breakdown link handy?

Steve, Host

ross1962

Had to have it towed to the dealer

A set of jumper cables would be cheaper that a tow.

02envoyowner

Sorry, no updates from me regarding my surging/clunking Envoy. Last I heard, GM was offering 2yrs of GMPP. Not an acceptable offer to me, so still pondering the best approach.

After 1 week, I did receive a follow-up voicemail from GM customer service. I'm wondering if anyone that requested the contact information from me has called. If so, anything to report? I did reply to the rep and indicated that I would be sharing the contact info with others who were also experiencing this unsolvable problem.

gam2

$1900 for an engine and trans? What planet are you from? Maybe from a 100,000 mile beater. I bet it's $7K or more for a new engine and tranny.

GAM

frasierdog

The best cleaner I have found is Chevron's Techron Concentrate. About $10 to treat 20 gallons.

The process is 2 fold. Dissolve deposits on injectors with proprietary detergents and light naphtha to raise the combustion temperature to burn off the carbon deposits.

Many people will notice some preignition after using the cleaner. This is due to the carbon burning off the cylinder heads. Once the heads are clean, the preignition goes away.

PS: Do not sniff the cleaner, is it harmful. Yes, people do it all the time.

Flame on Bob.