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Comments
jim f
I live in northern California where the climate is mild.
My Toyota pickup has met (or beat) the advertised mileage from day one, so it is not my driving.
The car is a joy to drive otherwise and I could almost live with the bad mileage it it would just shift right.
Carl
I have sat in an Envoy XL at the Detroit Auto Show and it was OK. But I still like the looks of my current Envoy.
-- Mike
I agree that the temp and fan buttons on the steering wheel are a little unnecessary.
Only a true Minnesotian would refer to 20-30°F temps as "mild"!
"Heck - at 40°F, we go swimming!"
-Jason
I told him that I was not happy with the answer. He said all that he could do is replace both mirrors, but that it would not fix the problem. He said GMC is aware, but they said is just a characteristic of the vehicle. $35,000 is a lot to pay for a musical tune from my mirrors every time I hit 45 mph.
Is anybody else having this problem? Any suggestions?
The autotemp control blows cold air when ever it wants to. And yes I know exactly how to program the processor that is evidently a piece of ----. The dealer, Jack Maxton Columbus Ohio, says that "it is ok if auto temp control goes off of auto all by itself, they tried other cars on the lot, and that it will be fine in the summer months when on ac". That gave me lots of confidence. Also told that "this car is so new and so complex that we just don't know where to start and we may need some more time to get it diagnosed"
Auto was in for new left mirror head left it over nite, but dealer did nothing, stated that gm does not have a fix, that there is no bullitin out, that they have not had this problem before, and that it is not a safty issue. Strangly my repair order says "could not duplicate customer complaint" Is this so that they can avoid the lemmon law? After having the car overnite,not spending any time so to speak on it,(snow was still on the running boards when I picked it up)they gave me gm customer complaint # to speak with mrs. raines, and she has been no help, as she has a preconceived idea that I am unhappy. Also had car in for transmission recalabration that suposedly would let the car roll on it's own. I guess that gm thought that that was a saftey issue. I would like to move anyones side view mirrors every time they take the key from the ign. and still have them then tell me that it is not a safty issue. I have read some of the complaints and have some ideas, but you people that can't wait to get your new trailblazer, don't bother. They are full of defects because they rushed to market and are now attempting to stone wall and down play their problems untill the new improved model comes out. I purchased the extended warranty that covers the computers and all but what good is it if they can't make it work in the first place. Mrs Raines offered me a 12 month extension for my problems, but didn't let me explain that I already have an extended warranty. I don't know if she was talking mirrors or the whole car, and I didn't wait around to find out after she put me on hold again. Ismply hang up, and suggest that you do the same. I have filed my complaint with the NTSB. I am filing a complaint with the Ohio atty. General, and I will be reading the Ohio lemmon law tonight. ARE YOU LISTENING GM?
Allen
Yup, never thought of that until you mentioned it but I guess everything is relative. LOL
Bob
Love everthing about this car. Minor defects on a 35,000 dollar first year car I can deal with.
Think these are bad, buy a new Ford and replace the motor or tranny with a rebuilt one in two years and see if that don't pi$$ you off. My 99 F150 5.4 motor had a rod knock at 33,000 miles, got a rebuilt replacement under warranty. Know what that does to resale value?
My 2000 Lincoln LS V8 (39,000 dollar luxury car) squeeked and rattled like an old Dodge, and shifted it's fancy 5 spd auto tranny at the weirdest.
Some posters attitude when they post on this board tells me how they probably act when they make demands at the dealer, and then they are made even more mad when the dealer service tech responds with poor service. Remember, you catch more flies with sugar.
You want perfection, buy a Japanese SUV like a Sequoia or Lexus, but get out your check book, as they are twice as much $$$.
Greg
Wichita
Thanks.
I bought the Manik step bars last year for my Envoy and really love them (stainless steel bars on an Indigo blue SLT). They take about 15 minutes to install into the factory mounting holes. My only complaints are that it took Manik several tries (and a long time) to get the bars to me (bars came without mounts; mounts came without enough bolts - whole thing took well over 1 1/2 months).
That said, they're high quality and look great. I don't have the splash guards...
Rick
I'm in Columbus and deal with Byers in Dublin near my house and can help.
I've posted all of the info, but this message board is buried with good info and a lame search tool.
tim lauro
tlauro@cranel.com ---- thursday morning
timlauro@timlauro.com ---- evenings
tlauro: I believe you had this problem and had the mirrors replaced, right? Any problems with them since?
Lastly, the service manager did give me a bit of news for those complaining about the wind noise coming from the mirrors. The good news is that there is supposed to be a recall in two or three months for them. The bad news is that the mirrors will be replaced from the current "breakaway" style, to a fixed mirror. This means if your mirrors make contact with something, be it another vehicle or your garage entrance, the mirror will not only be damaged but probably cause damage to the door as well. Nice fix huh? Apparently GM can't make their "breakaway" style mirrors noiseless like every other manufacturer can.
just tt. Bruce and put him in touch with my dealer since he's in Columbus too. I'm confident his will be fixed.
email me if you wish and I'll put you in touch too. Byers Chevy has had a large number of calls thanks to me
wonderful this internet.
tim
tidester
Host
SUVs
Also, concerning the wind noise that some of you have voiced concerning the mirrors. My mirrors tend to be fairly quiet, I have not noticed the whistling problem that some of you have mentioned, but on the other hand.. it was a fairly nice day here in Michigan the other day so I decided to roll down the driver's side window. Well, if I rolled the window more than 1/2 way down, I could here a lot of wind turbulence around the driver's side mirror so I kind of kept the window 3/4 rolled up to silence the noise. Is this part of the design problem that some of you have referenced? IF so, I guess we are all going to be setup for dissapointment because some of us are already "pulling teeth" with GM to resolve certain issues, lord knows that if they have to replace mirrors, it would be a pretty cold day in hell.. I hate to say that, but I know that it wouldn't happen. Hopefully they can remanufacture a gasket or something to resolve this problem.
Well.. my faith with GM is starting to run out as well. My Grand AM GT1 has only 1,600 miles on it and the other day I took it over to the dealership to have the tires rebalanced (steering wheel shaking at 55 mph). When they rebalanced the wheels, they moved the old weights leaving these UGLY scars on my polished wheels! I complained to the service manager and was told, "the wheels not being balanced is something that happens to some cars, the only way to balance them is to remove the outer weight and we just can do anything about those scars!" Well.. my feeling violated, raped, bamboozled, etc. responded with, "I want my wheels back to the way they were when I bought the car in this morning.. NO SCRATCHES.. IF this is a GM defect then they need to go to the Lansing assembly plant and pull me four new wheels & tires that are correctly balanced!" His response, "Well, we can take it up with my regional service manager when she comes in sometime next month BUT I doubt if she would do anything to correct the problem." Well.. what is a guy to do? I didn't cause that harm to my vehicle.. Am I being too picky? NOT ON MY LIFE.. Heck.. I have over $60,000 in GM vehicles in my garage that I am BUYING and they can't resolve my issues? Well, I can pretty much say that although I love my Envoy and Grand AM, after this, there will more than likely never be another GM car in my garage.. Just stating the facts.. Sure every car manufacturer has problem, but I am going to start traveling the road "less traveled."
Well.. just my two cents for the day.. Pheww.. I feel better!
Thanks!
IExplore2000@aol.com
And no Gary not everyone agrees with you.
Tom
tidester wrote:
"That almost sounds like a solicitation - which, of course, is not what we want to see! :-) "
garyking wrote:
"That last comment almost sounds like more harassment from the thought police - which, of course no one wants to see..............."
dkrdenvoy wrote:
"Unmoderated boards stink. Keep doing your job Tim and keep people aware of the limits. And no Gary not everyone agrees with you."
Thanks!
-Jason
It wound up taking 2 days because they hadn't known it would be as complicated a repair as it turned out to be, so I got the car back yesterday (they offered to rent me a car, but I didn't need one). When I picked it up (unfortunately, I got there after service had closed for the day), the whine was, in fact, gone. Chalk up another one to the axle seals and Edmunds's Town Hall!
However, the fuel gauge is now screwed up - it starts just below "F" for the zero position and now pegs all the way to the right edge when running. Oops. I told the (mortified) dealer service tech this morning, and they are now trying to figure out what the best way to fix it is and how to do it in the quickest possible time (they're actually pretty nice folks where I go). Until then, good thing I use the DIC to tell me when to refill!
Gary - Your use of the term "thought police" is intended to provoke. You can think whatever you want but we will stay on topic.
tidester
Host
SUVs
The Escape has a lot of low end power and "grunt" to it. That's the extent of the good. For an SUV built to be "carlike" (i.e. appeal to minivan lovers who don't like the minivan stigma, but want good mileage and carlike handling), it rides REALLY rough. It bumps around the road, sways a lot on the corners, and has uncomfortable seats. Also, when you are coasting (no brake and no gas), it is almost as if you are pulling something (compared to the TB). The car almost grinds to a stop without applying the brake, whereas my TB will coast for a ways, slowing gradually. Also, compared to the TB, the shift points are REALLY hard, the car shudders under acceleration.
Just my thoughts, I know most people won't compare these two vehicles, they are in different classes. But for those choosing a smaller SUV instead of the TB (or, I am assuming the GMC/Olds) due mostly to the better ride quality, please think again.
I was really glad to get back into my TB this morning on the way to work. Not to mention the heated seats here in MN!
brh
I'm renting a Ford Escape from Hertz in about a month when my wife, son and I head down to Hilton Head for a week. I'm interested to see how it compares to my TB LTZ! Or, based on what you said, how it pales in comparison...
Someone here where I work just bought an Escape and seems to enjoy it - I'll reserve judgement until I get to drive one a long distance. I'll post my comments where when I get back.
BTW: I never looked at anything but GM products before I purchased my TB since my father-in-law is a GM employee. So I haven't had much to compare my TB to!
-Jason
I do not own one of the triplets, yet. I'll be in the market for another SUV next year. My wife and I leased a '97 Blazer for three years, then went to a JGC when the Chevy dealer wouldn't come down to a competitive lease for a new one. All that to say we really liked the Blazer.
So, I test drove a TB the other day and I was impressed with the comfort and power of the engine (the old 4.3L in the Blazer was nice, too, by the way). I am certainly hoping the problems I am reading about get fixed. The only nit I could see from the drive was the way the rear seat headrests seemed to obscure rear view vision out the rear glass. Have any of you owners had a problem with that? Also, one of the last posts indicated the TB was going to be due for a remake. When is that going to happen?
Thanks for your time and the good info from the posts.
miles away to Hanover, PA to purchase it just because I felt the dealer I bought the first one from was not supportive. The PA dealer is better that the others, but who wants to drive over an hour away to have your GM truck seen for these minor problems.
I can tell you, the first bravada (4/01 build date) we owned had several of the problems I've heard about on the list, but the newer one (10/01 build date) has none. The differences I've seen with the newer bravada are:
1. Different shaped driver's mirror (a little less tall and a little wider)
2. Different dimming times between driver's mirror and inside mirror (electrochromic mirrors)
3. The mirrors don't wander like they did on first one.
4. The oil life system has a 10,000 mile range, not 6,000 miles as on the first one.
5. The rear doors match up much better when closed than the early one did.
6. The console latch works much better.
7. The brakes don't feel as good as the brakes on the first car did. (very subjective, very hard to communicate to the dealer).
8. The paint chipping around the rear license plate panel is chipped on all of these vehicles - I'll wait until the gasket is available to worry about that.
Overall, we're pleased with the car. My biggest gripe is with the fit of the hood. Every chance I get I look at Bravadas on dealer's lots hoping to see a good example of a well fitted hood. In my opinion, the headlight to hood gap should be as it's depicted in the Bravada sales brochure. I've only seen one in real life that was acceptable, all of the rest have a poor fit, in my opinion. The problem with this one is, if you attempt to move the hood forward to close the gap, then it's obvious that the hood's been moved because of the unpainted area around the mounting bolts. This is a tell-tale sign of an accident repair, which is a turn off for an experienced buyer. Obviously, the dealer doesn't want to mess with this - "it's within GM's allowable tolerances".
Anyway, I don't mind someone on this list naming a Dealer who does good work. I wish I could find one around this area who does. Tim, you are very fortunate.
Bob
How much did the manik step bars set you back, and where did you order them from? Debating on if I want to add any toys to my leased Envoy or not...
Thanks!
I had the same problem with my Bravada after I picked it up from the dealer. The fuel was pegged on full, and the engine temp was pegged to hot. I decided to turn off the engine, I then noticed they dropped a bit. I restarted and killed the engine about 4 more times and they both kept going down farther and farther until they were back to normal. Zero problems since then.
I have a particular shortcoming that is something of a bother, other than the obvious at 52 and headed for 53. The sun roof in the triplets has both a slide back fully open mode and a rear edge lift for ventilation mode. I generally always use mine in the fully open mode. Problem is that I have a hard time knowing when I close it that it is closed and has not begun to start to open in the back into the ventilation mode. Is there a special technique to closing this thing from the full open mode and not starting to open it in the ventilation mode? Am I paranoid or just old and stupid? I wish GM had integrated a light hooked to a sensor that would indicate whether the sun roof is closed or not.
Your advice is welcome.
Steve