Subaru Impreza WRX

8u6hfd

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5300

I happen to know that curve he was in (and speed limit is 35 mph also)

stoner420

personally, I can't figure if there was necessarily anything he could have done to avoid that crash (given that he was cut off suddenly by a van around the curve)... doing 40 in a 35, could likely see myself doing that speed too in the wrx, maybe even on wet roads (depending on the conditions though -- sometimes they're most slippery with just a small coating of water than a lot of rain, cuz the oil comes to the surface but isn't washed away, maybe I'd be a bit slower on that kind of wet surface). there's seems to be some debate about whether or not his tires are fairly bald (he has 20k+ miles?), so it may or may not be specifically caused by the re92s. Still it seems overall like it wasn't particularly caused by aggressive "suv" driving habits, he was cut off by another vehicle at a most crucial moment. (is it a blind curve?)

on the other hand, if nothing else, it proves once again how safe and sturdy the car is! 40mph collision, no one was hurt, and the damage wasn't quite as bad as it could have been. (plus you can read about all the various crashes the teenagers have had on i-club that they walked away from...) not that this means I'll feel the license to drive like a ford exploder, but at least I know in case of the worst, I'm in good hands!

robmarch

It doesn't sound like a fun story, especially with loved ones in the car. Fundamentally, though, it sounds to me like he was cut of and had a panic maneuver, and he avoided a head on collision with the other lane. I'm not sure that better tires would have solved that problem, unless they were low on tread, as someone suggested on the forum?

Drive safe, everyone.

kevin111

When I bought my car, they automatically put in the old knob on the short throw shifter. A new car I testdrove had the same problem of the shifter being extremely stiff (had to force it to get into gears).
The one I ended up getting was not as stiff. With this said, the shifter did seem to become smoother over time. I have 2500 miles on mine, and the shifter seems much easier to shift between 1st and 2nd, even though it still seems a little jerky.
The short shifts are great for accelerating. It is a breeze to quickly shift the gears through the gates!

mgreene1

My STi shifter was somewhat notchy at first and required a bit more effort but it loosened up nicely after a couple thousand miles. After 12k miles, the shifts are now very smooth and precise. I'm very happy with the factory short shifter even though it was a bit more expensive than the cheaper aftermarket alternatives. IMO, if you let the factory short shifter get broken-in properly, there is absolutely no need to fool with synthetic gear oil or aftermarket bushings, and you also won't need to worry about your warranty.

jimmys2

I only have 1k miles on my wagon and already the STi shifter feels smoother than zero miles, although I suspect it will always feel a little stiffer than the stock set-up. I don't regret my decision, the short throw shifter adds to my driving pleasure.

8u6hfd

not a blind curve....it's not even a sharp curve either.

He does do some racing....which is hard on tires, which acclerates wear also.

In most likely case, the route he has driving, he had just made a right turn onto the street, so he wasn't cruising at 35 or faster, he was acclerating (gunning it as he usually does).

Maybe it's just that I know his driving habits all too well (I drive more like his parents....more cautious...and not driving twice the speed limit).

bluesubie

Wow, he was lucky!
Here is my question regarding the accelerator answered:
"...The "classic AWD mistake" is over compensating during a power-on oversteer event. In my panic, I yanked the wheel to the right while braking , in order to avoid the Ford pickup heading straight at me. In doing so, I unloaded the rear tires and was left with most of the car's weight on the turned front tires. A spin was inevitable once I did this, it was only a matter of time..."

Of course, hindsight is 20/20 and it's a lot easier to comment when you're not in the situation.

-Dennis

stoner420

well I don't think the above story is indicative of wrx driving styles as a whole... it sounds like he might have spun going 5 miles under the limit too, given the circumstances... it's hard to tell if his typical aggressive driving style (as claimed by 8u6hfd) has total relevance to what happened in this case, was he really cut off or was he flying up and miss the guy turning on? I can't really tell from the descriptions given.

I do find myself driving somewhat more like the BMW drivers lately (lane changes to get around the 60mph granny in the left lane who thinks it's ok because she's still "passing" the car next to us going 59, etc), but maybe that's just because I can safely - I still use my blinkers, mirrors and check blind spots, not just randomly throwing my car around, and my steering, braking, and acceleration are all up to the task to avoid causing problems (which I didn't have nearly the same ability in the 4cyl Accord, for example). (As opposed to the maniacs in the SUVs who just _think_ they are safe, but are really rollovers waiting to happen :-) This car is just much more agile than most. I still keep my max speed to reasonable cuz I don't want to get any tickets, and I don't get _right up_ there on people's tails, but I can sure squeeze into holes much better than before.

So does it give a false sense of security? Make me more aggressive? I dunno, I really just think everyone else has gotten slower... ;-)

stoner420

Was just poking through some of the mini discussion boards... why is it that in the general opinion the headlights on the mini (which look remarkable similar in shape to the wrx headlights, imho) are cool, but on the wrx they suck? (Not my opinion, I have grown to love the look, but a lot of people still seem to hate them) What's up with that?

kevin111

When I first saw the mini, I though it looked unusual. The more I see them, the more they look like a box on wheels.

Just my opinion. The WRX looked funny when I was car shopping, but the looks of this car are definitely growing on me. All I know is that I have a smile on my face every time I step out of the driver's seat.

One last thing. It seems that this car generally apeals to the 50 something and above. I have heard of a few younger people that drive these cars, but most of the time I see people in their middle ages and older driving this car.

sonya4

Thanks for the responses, kevin111, mgreene1 and jimmys2.

mgreene--what do you mean by "aftermarket bushings"? I don't know all of the lingo here, although I can guess at some.

As for overconfidence, I find that I feel safer in my Rex, because of AWD, maneuverability and speed--I don't go that much faster than in my former cars (front-wheel drives)... although now I do like to peel off from the red light once in a while (depending on which car I have beside me) or take curves a little faster. In fact, some time ago I raced another WRX from a stoplight, and managed to get ahead by a few feet--OK, I started up in 1st gear faster than the other driver, and maybe he wasn't as experienced with a stick.

Driving a Rex (or any car for that matter) really comes down to common sense. As bluesubie said, know your car (don't decide to test it when there's heavy traffic, or other cars are coming toward you!) and don't push it beyond its limits. That's a mistake that a lot of SUV owners make, IMO.

About the Mini, I think they're cute, although I wouldn't want one. And yes, maybe they are for middle-aged people (what is middle-aged nowadays?); I saw a former co-worker of mine with one, driving slowly, and he's about 50. Still, they are useful for inner-city driving and parking if that's your habitat.

--Sonya4

mgreene1

Aftermarket bushings are harder than the factory-stock ones and reduce the sloppiness in the shifter (so expect more notchiness).

These can be used with the factory STi shifter (which comes complete with its own linkage) or with the aftermarket shift levers that must be "hammered" into the factory linkage. It's best to use a plastic hammer, not a sledge hammer.

This link gives chapter and verse on aftermarket shifters and bushings. There are lots of pictures so it takes awhile to load. Instead of trying to figure this out, I just went to a Subie dealer and asked them to get their best technician to install the STi one. No fuss. No muss. No hammers.

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ca128341e1d83ca60eaaf41087d42592&threadid=205

rexaroo

patilpan--I had the same thing happen while Rexing along in a heavy rainstorm--grit gets caught in the spring-beds and the car makes a kind of coarse, creaking noise when going slowly over large bumps or undulations in the pavement. I took the car into the dealer and they put it on a lift, cleaned out the grit, and lubricated the lower part of the springs with wheel-bearing grease. This was a year ago and the problem never came back. Your dealer should cover this under warranty. It would also help to have them grease the sway bar bushings while they are at it, as juice suggested.

cinosweive

Could someone explain how swapping ends on a car is a classic awd mistake? I would think that any car forced through the same rapid direction changes and deceleration would have spun. Am I wrong?

bluesubie

The classic mistake is letting off the gas and/or hitting the brake when the car is sliding, or when you're about to go out of control.
On the i-club there were other crashes where folks did the same thing. One was a guy in a WRX during a track day. Another was a guy in a Legacy GT at a track.

It's easy to practice the technique in an empty snow-covered parking lot. Try to get the car to slide. As it slides, just give it a little gas and the car will regain composure.
My wife was a little leary of doing it, but it worked for her. She was in NW NJ driving down a curvy hill in about 6 in. of snow and ice. The car started to slide a little, and she lightly tapped the accelerator and regained control.

I'm not entirely sure of the technical explanation, but I believe that accelerating redistributes the power more quickly between the front and rear wheels.
Any other opinions on this?

-Dennis

bruticus

I don't think they're referring to the actual spin as a classic AWD car thing. I think they were referring to the events leading up to the spin as an example of how drivers of capable cars (whether AWD or not) seem more likely to overdrive their own abilities and get into trouble.

DjB

patilpan

Lots of dings have surfaced on the hood. The insurance guy will inspect the damage today. What's the best way of getting the dings fixed? Boy... the hood is really delicate. No other area on the car shows any damage. The hood took major pounding.
Abt the dirt in suspension, the servicing guy sprayed some lubricant in/around the coil springs. I drove the car after that. It was quiet for a while. Same sound has crept up again the next day. I guess it needs real good scrubbing.
Thanks guys for your help and sorry for some repeat postings...

ed_scott0013

Here's my little theory about adding gas to a slide...

When you're about to lose control, pressing the brake/letting off the gas shifts the mass of the car forward. This causes the tires at the back to break free and the whole "swapping ends" thing occurs.

Since an AWD vehicle has power going to all four wheels, pressing the gas lets the car know that "I wanna go this way!" and the wheels start clawing away at the surface like a deranged pet running on wooden floors (each wheel is helping push the car in the desired direction). Accelerating also shifts the mass to the back and keeps it planted on the ground.

I think this may work on FWD cars as well, since the drive wheels are pulling the car in the desired direction, but it won't be as effective as an AWD car, of course.

I hope some of that made sense...

jwilson1

patilpan, you're about to learn the downside to the aluminum hood, I think. I'm glad I finally have something to contribute to this board, even if it is a rather depressing experience. When the same thing happened to the alu minum hood of my car (Miata), the body shop guys told me that the only real way to fix it was to get a new hood, that repairs would be visible. The problem was that I would be repainting the old hood, or getting a new hood to go up against the then-8 yr. old paint of the rest of the car. (It was black by the way ... a real tough color to work with.)

I finally ended up taking it to a Dent Magic place here and they did a real nice job, but I could still see the shadow and it was one of the things that led me to sell the car finally.

Suggestion: don't let the insurance folk talk you into a repair. Get a new hood. Your paint job is still awfully new and the fading shouldn't be an issue at this point.

(Now I'll go back to lurking and finding all about the WRX.)

Take care.
Joe W.

ed_scott0013

The Honda Insight has aluminum panels, so maybe on the Insight board there are people with other ding/accident/fix-up experiences. I just thought it might help...

bluesubie

Good analogy.

Dennis

dop50

Just my 2c.

It seems to me that many people who drive 4x4's or AWD's tend to get a false sense of security pretty quickly, the problem as I see it... When you trudge out on your first trip in the snow with something that has all 4 wheels pulling you along. You simply say to yourself... This thing will go anywhere and do anything. WRONG!!!! The last few years here in the midwest, since SUV's have become a fashion statement, I have seen more of them in ditches, than rear wheel drive cars. People seem to think that since it goes forward really well, then it should stop that much better also. What they forget is simple friction, or lack of it. Yes, it's friction, not traction, that makes you stick to the road. Friction makes traction! Traction is just a word somebody come up with after they invented a wheel, or something.

Lets just say for arguments sake that a good dry road has a friction factor of 100%, and a wet road has a factor of 50%, and ice or packed snow has a factor of say 0% to 10%. (0% is BAD!)

A normal vehicle with 2 wheel drive goes just fine with 100% friction, when the road gets wet and you have 4 wheel drive, it SEEMS like you have the same amount as before. Ok, this is great. If it's icey out or snowy, the 4 wheel drive still feels like you have twice the gripping power of a vehicle with 2 wheel drive. And the fact is... you do, as long as you still have friction. Once you lose the friction, the skid results, unless you can regain the friction by trying to induce the same speed as the vehicle is moving, in as close to the direction as possible, thereby re-instating some friction, you simply crash or skid into yonder field. Also, with most SUV's you have the higher center of gravity to deal with. (Which a lot of people fail to recognize.)

What most people fail to realize is, that a vehicle without friction under the tires is going to go the route of centrifugal force, meaning whatever direction it is going, it will continue. Everything that moves has a tendency to want to continue in whatever direction it's mass wants it to go.
If you have a ball on a string and swing it around in circles, then all of a sudden let go, what happens? The ball flies out straight, right? Well, a vehicle may or may not go straight depending on if any of the tires still have any friction.

ALL vehicles, no matter how many drive wheels you have, will skid, slide, or whatever you want to call it, when there is no friction.

If you quickly loose the grip on one end or the other, you have what results in a fishtail.

It's really simple physics, which many people have forgotten to apply to their driving habits.

It's really simple.... Don't out drive your vehicle or your ability. But ALSO, don't outdrive the road conditions. Slippery when wet, means there is probably less friction.

I know most of you already know all this, it's just that maybe it might help just one to think about it a bit. Accidents do happen, but if we can help one person avoid it, then why not!

Happy motoring!

I guess I do, LOVE my REX! And, I do drive it a little faster than other vehicles, but I try not to get carried away too far. I would like to keep it a while.

Ken

P.S. Yes I know there are many factors that can change the amount of friction one has.
Let's just keep it simple.

rexaroo

and Ken's comments about SUVs are very true. You don't get something for nothing, and when you jack a vehicle high off the ground like your typical over-sized SUV, you may be getting nice ground clearance and that high command-of-the-road seating position, but it comes at a cost--namely, much higher center of gravity. High center of gravity is the enemy of good handling, especially in sudden change-of-direction situations, which is why these vehicles tend to lose control and flip over much more readily than a regular passenger car. That's the reason they've always built Formula 1 and other race cars as low to the ground as they can--much better handling and much more stable. Anyone who owns a Forester knows it sits lower to the ground, and for good reason--Subie engineers did that deliberately to make it handle much better than your typical SUV.

jimmys2

plus the Subarus are AWD, in contrast to many large SUVs that are 2WD imposters.

ed_scott0013

I was having a similar discussion about this recently with some friends, regarding AWD and its "traction enhancing" qualities. Regardless of all your fancy electronics/mechanics (AWD, ABS, VDC, Traction control, etc) if your tires can't grip worth peanuts, you're destined for the ditch anyway...

When you DO have some grip (thanks to better tires, better conditions, etc.) those aforementioned components do their work to make the best of it, like one of Subaru's taglines state: Directing power from the wheels that slip, to the wheels that grip...

ateixeira

I asked a similar question, but about the Mercedes Benz E-Class, Jaguars, and the 911. The lights look more like those than Neons, but that is what people compare it to.

Bob has made the point that perhaps Subaru could have shaped the fenders a little better, frame the big eyes. So maybe they'll give it new glasses (frames), not eyes.

-juice

hunter001

Ok, this is great. If it's icey out or snowy, the 4 wheel drive still feels like you have twice the gripping power of a vehicle with 2 wheel drive. And the fact is... you do, as long as you still have friction. Once you lose the friction, the skid results,

If it is a big patch of sheet ice, then with 4-wheel drive, you have 2 additional powered wheels (when compared to a 2WD vehicle) to slip on . But luckily, such situations are rare and hence seldom encountered.

Later...AH

viet2

It was my first drive on snow with my Misubishi Montero all wheel drive but without snow chain and the stock Yokohama. The road is winding and it was snowing. I did not drive very fast, about 30 mph and doing fine until I wanted to stop using a turn out. The turn out was actually covered with a sheet of ice; the SUV started to skid and it looked like we were heading to the side of the mountain. I cranked the sterring to the opposite direction and steped on the gas, the SUV regain composure, and we got out of the ice. I am not so sure that I could have made it with 2 wheel drive. The AWD system in my Rex is also wonderful, very practical in everyday use, and it is even more fun when the surface is less then ideal. I have experienced skid when the tires started to loose the adhesion in my Rex during a turn on wet road. If I was driven my old Mustang ugly things could have happened.

paisan

AWD: Gas it when sliding, you'll be much happier than braking or lifting off. I've done that a few times and regretted it. Although on Ice it won't matter. I learned that during The 48hrs of Tri-state. Uphill left curve, slid right off the right side of the road.

SUVs: I dunno, I just did a 4-wheel drift with the trooper yesterday on an exit ramp. And my trooper is 3" lifted running AT tires. Then again I also locked up the wheels and the flatbed car transporter with a 2.5RS on it during a brake check on my way home so I'm not your typical driver

-mike

thecat

"...so I'm not your typical driver"

AMEN TO THAT !!

- Hutch

bruticus

1st Place in the Mid-Price Sedan category went to a WRX.

DjB

strider98

but what if you are skidding and needing to brake at the same time? Do you hit both the accelerator to get the skid to stop and the brake to slow down? Would that work? (idiot light is blinking)

himiler

Chances are, the reason you went into the skid in the first place was because you braked too deeply into the turn.

Adding both throttle and brake will only make the situation worse, because you will effectively null any chance you have of using either one to help you recover (not to mention the stress you'll put on the drivetrain).

If you're in a situation such as the one you describe, there isn't a whole lot adding more braking will do for you, other than leaving black marks on the road and causing you to find a new friend in a tow-truck driver.

Assuming you have Richard Burns-caliber driving skills, your best bet would be to dial in a big bunch of opposite lock, nail the gas (provided you're in the correct gear), and then quickly unwind the steering to achieve the desired slip angle, allowing the car to rotate. From this point, you could drift the car back into the direction you'd like.

But, in the real world you're probably toast.

paisan

And hope for the best. Like himiler said it's probably too late, so just have some fun.

-mike

stoner420

while sliding uncontrollably into the side of a mountain? lol...

paisan

Sliding into a mountain can be fun, so long as your deductible isn't too much. At that point it's too late to do anything so you might as well give it some gas and see if you can pull it out.

-mike

sonya4

Many many years ago, my ex and I were driving to Canada. We were passing through Minnesota and were in my rear-wheel drive Chevette, with the ex driving. It was winter and nighttime, and we were on the interstate, which was fairly clear. All of a sudden, we saw the car in front start swerving erratically, before it finally stopped next to the grass divider, which was a shallow ditch.

My ex immediately said, "There must be ice ahead" and started letting off the gas. Right then we were caught in the ice. The ex kept the steering wheel straight while I wondered where and how we were going to end up. It looked like we were heading straight for the other car that had stopped, but at almost the last moment we slid past it and went into the ditch. I'd had visions of rolling over, but we remained upright and the ex gently applied the brakes and we came to a stop.

We took a few deep breaths and then drove out of the ditch and on our way. I never complained again about my ex's driving!

I guess the moral of that story is, whether you have AWD or not, when you hit ice, just stay cool and hope for the best. Anybody have additional comments about what to do when you hit ice (black or not)?

--Sonya4

himiler

The biggest mistake people make is that they forget about black ice until it's too late.

If road conditions are such that you can expect black ice in places, assume that there's black ice everywhere and drive accordingly.

hunter001

If road conditions are such that you can expect black ice in places, assume that there's black ice everywhere and drive accordingly.

Very good advice.

Later...AH

sensei1

More like check your luck meter for the day. A while back for me too....lessons learned when young. Driving on an icy slight incline in TN w/ my '71 MachI, did 360s not on purpose and my car wasn't named Christine either. Just waited till the car settled. What's amusing was sitting at a traffic light in D when the tires started spinning coz of the ice melting under.

Also experienced 17 mi. of what was more like a controlled skid rather than driving home in WA w/ a 2wd Datsun pickup 4sp. Talk about breaking a sweat in my *@*@ cheeks.

Yup I wonder now how my Rex would have fared in those road conditions then.

himiler

Provided you've got the correct tires for conditions, the "pucker factor" is reduced in any car.

twrx

Hi all, just read Subaru's new press release on 2003 pricing. WRX has an increase of $200 but no mention of any content change. There is a "sonic yellow" version bundled with spoiler like before but that is all they seem to be revealing about the 2003.

TWRX

himiler

There will be a lighted ring around the ignition switch (ala 2003 Forester), and the 6 star Subaru badge on the front end will be slightly larger, with a blue background instead of the current black.

That's it!

thecat

$200 increase + lighted ignition ring = 25 more H.P.

We may need confirmation from Juice since he has sole position of the "content to horse power" conversion table but I'm pretty sure the above equation is correct.
- Hutch

ateixeira

If the light glows yellos, then yes. Green means just 10hp more. ;-)

Coffee can exhausts still bring one HP per inch of diameter at the tail pipe, though.

Bling Bling!

-juice

8u6hfd

you forgot the ever powerful effect of stickers also

thecat

Oh no. The use of stickers moves you out of the "stock" class into "modified". Pretty sure it voids your warrenty too.
- Hutch

wayde

where did you read/find this? i've searched subaru.com and fhi.co.ja site and can't find anything.....
also, anyone know what the new yellow looks like?

himiler

My info is straight out of Subaru's 2003 Model Guide, which specifically details changes from the MY 2002 cars.

The new yellow will be similar to what you've seen on the Mazda P5 and the Corvette. The finish will consist of a tinted clearcoat over a yellow base, which what was lacking on the Blaze Yellow WRX of 2002.