Subaru Impreza WRX

cptplt

There was an article in C & D or R & T about the SMG in the latest M3. Apparently one of the settings is to do a 4000rpm clutch drop start! However the computer is set to limit the number of times you do that in an hour and to a total of 30 such starts ever!
Hahaha - SOA should put something like that in the ECU of the WRX, they may have fewer people killing their clutches and tranny and asking for warranty work!

cinosweive

I wonder what the science is in deciding what the torque split should be? Why 90/10 in most subarus and 60/40 in the wrx?

paisan

I didn't think the 60/40 # was correct on that. Interesting 0-60 on the '92 LS-L is 6.9 and top speed of 155mph That is the baby I'm gettin!

-mike

kevin111

was faster than the SMG 4.6 to 4.8

Also, the shifter still reminds me of the manu-matics. You still have to shift one gear at a time! Anotherwords, I do not believe you can jump gears, such as 2-4 or 3-5 like I do with the WRX when I am in the mood to let it rip.

nschulman3

I have a question? What kind of mileage are wrx owners getting? I am most interested in hearing from drivers who do most of their driving in the city, going back and forth to work with short distances. I rarely have the opportunity or need to travel far, so my wrx does not see a lot of highway. Still, the kind of mileage i get is atrocious. The car runs great, so i can't attribute it to that. I am a fairly agressive driver, but don't drive harder than the average wrx owner. My car gets between 12-14 MPG in mostly city driving. This is atrocious! I fully believe that i could push the car's mileage into single digits if i drove the car a bit harder. I get about 150-175 miles on a full tank of gas. How are other owners doing ?

kevin111

I get around 22-25 in mixed driving.

Usually around 21-22 with mainly city type driving with a little bit of highway.

If you are driving a mile or less exclusively between destinations, could this be the reason?

I thought it was extremely tough to get the mileage below 19!!!

hunter001

The WRX (Automatic) is not 60/40, it is 45/55 (default in non-slip conditions) with a slight rearward power bias. The AWD-hardware and the electronics in the VTD-AWD equipped WRX (Auto) are completely different from that in the other Subarus (Automatics and manuals) and is something special. No other Subaru (including the MT WRX) gets it, except for the VDC Outback ($30000+). The hardware (in the VTD-AWD equipped Auto WRX) includes the presence of a Planetary Gear Center differential (which all others lack) and heavy duty electro-mechanical transfer clutches (other Automatics have lighter duty transfer clutches). The torque bias, front-rear, is determined by the pitch of the planetary gear center diff. Of course, the torque-split varies with conditions.

In Japan-market VTD-AWD versions, the torque split is set at 36/64 unlike the US/Australian market 45/55. This AWD-hardware setup in a much heavier-duty form is present in the Subaru World Rally race cars. Of course the Race cars also include additional front and rear torque-sensing differentials, something that can be easily remedied in the road going WRX (Quaife Engineering has torque-sensing differentials front and rear for the WRX).

Later...AH

subaru_team

FWIW - When I got my first WRX, I was getting about 13 mpg - and having a blast. When I started tallying up my contributions to the local fuel station, I changed my driving patterns. I'm a bit less aggressive (except when I absolutely have to have a bit of fun) and found my MPG up going up to 22.

As part of our test vehicle program, we have to report how many miles per gallon we use every month and it is strictly monitored. I'm not saying that is what is causing your fuel use - - a dealer is in the best position to evaluate that - - I'm just sharing my personal experience.

Patti

mikenk

I have always gotten between 20-23mpg on my wagon in various degrees of mixed driving. It has seemed to be mostly 20-21 now that it is summer in Texas with the ac on all the time. I can't imagine 12-14 being normal.

Concerning so many past ac comments, I am not having any problem with cooling in the Texas heat (99 yesterday). The ac does not seem as strong as on my OB, but I never max out the cooling dial to stay comfy. My windows are tinted, standard fare in this part of the country.

Mike

robmarch

Any chance you could switch your torque split to the JDM 36/64? Then you could really make us MT guys jealous

paisan

What kind of city driving are we talking about? I find that one person's "City" driving can be very different than another's. For instance if you live in NYC you aren't going to hit 40mph at all but might drive 40 or 50 miles at a time less than 40mph. This would result in much worse fuel economy than say someone who drives in a rural or suburban "city" where they regularly hit over 50mph although it's not "highway"

Also AC use may effect your milage as well and the # of miles on your car is a factor too.

-mike

subearu

dont' forget the '03 Legacy 2.5GT - it too will have the VTD-AT, along with a sport-shift.



-Brian

hunter001

Anyone with a good mechanical knowledge, can definitely do it - easily. Basically the pitch of the Planetary gears will have to be turned a bit to put additional torque bias to the rear.

But the main point is that the rear axle should have been engineered to take the additional power/torque for extended periods of time - I am not sure about this. If the part #s of the US market WRX rear axle is the same as the Japan market rear axle, then it would not cause any issues.

Later...AH

hunter001

Yeah, that is what I heard. The sportshift part should be a good thing to have, when combined with the VTD I would think. I have it on my Acura and I like it.

Later...AH

hunter001

Here is a picture of the Planetary gear portion of the Center differential of the Automatic WRX (excluding the Electro-mechanical transfer clutches):

http://www.subaru-global.com/about/parts/img/center_diff.jpg

Later...AH

cinosweive

I was getting between 23 and 24 before AC season hit. It seemed to drop almost 2 mpg since then. I drive about 50/50 hwy/city and normally shift at about 4000 rpm unless I am out for fun or fast accel.

bruticus

"Also, the shifter still reminds me of the manu-matics. You still have to shift one gear at a time! Anotherwords, I do not believe you can jump gears, such as 2-4 or 3-5 like I do with the WRX when I am in the mood to let it rip."

Yes, this defines a sequential gearbox: the prohibition of skipping a shift.

FWIW, I've always been under the impression that skipping a shift in a car that isn't built that way (like the GM 1-to-4 shift in the mid-90s) is a bad idea. Your car's synchromesh gearbox is designed for a sequential progression through the ratios; skipping them puts additional strain on them, perhaps leading to early synchro failure (rough shifting, grinding of gears, etc)

DjB

prayerfor

I'm also pretty consistently in the 21-22 mpg range for city driving in my 5spd wagon. Last 12 fillups: 25.5 max, 20.6 min, 22.3 avg.

12-14 indicates a problem I'd think. Are you running 93 octane?

kevin111

I admit that I am new to manual shifting, but from an engineering point of view, I do not see how this will matter (skipping gears) as long as the RPM/gas-pedal is aligned properly with the upshift. I would figure you would put less wear on the whole tranny by keeping the RPMs down when skipping a shift.

A downshift by skipping a couple of gears is another story.

bruticus

It just seems like logic/common sense to me. The gears in your tranny are different sizes, and skipping a shift forces a very low-ratio gear to mesh immediately with a much higher-ratio one, which seems like it'd strain the synchros.

I can't point to any specific sources, alas. It's just something that's been in my mind since I started driving. It could very well have been driven into my head in driver training in public school, for all I know.

I keep forgetting to ask my father for a clarification on this; he's been a gearhead and mechanic since ~1960 and is currently teaching auto tech at the high school from which I graduated.

DjB

sonya4

I get about 21-23 mpg on my Rex sedan, and that's in suburban driving, where posted speed limits vary between 30-50 mph. Even with a/c it's still about 21-22. I refuel before 3/4 tank is gone, and I still get over 200 miles generally.

nschulman--Are you sure nothing else is going on? 12-14 mpg sounds awfully low.

As for skipping shifts, I was told since I was young never to skip. An old friend of mine did that and trashed his tranny.

--Sonya4

kevin111

But it is so easy to go from 3rd to the cruising gear in 5th! Oh well.

himiler

Skipping upshifts hurts nothing, and can improve fuel economy, since by upshifting you're dropping revs and actually reducing the load on the transmission.

dop50

The way I learned it back in school (many moons ago). Was that basically the syncronizers use friction to help match the speeds of the input gears with the output gears. This happens automatically when you depress the clutch. Unless you are doing a really fast power shift it won't really make much difference. The original idea behind it was to keep you from having to double-clutch all the time. That's why you hear a lot of people in old farm trucks grinding gears a lot and having to double clutch to get it in gear, the syncronizers are worn out or they don't have any. It's not likely that you will destroy your transmission in normal driving conditions if you occasionally miss a gear. If you do it regularly then you may cause excess wear on the syncronizers but it would take quite a bit in my opinion. You will hear gears grinding when you shift if your syncronizers are worn out. It won't just stop working, for even a long time after that.

When you hear of people "blowing up" their transmission, it's generally because they drop the clutch at too high of an engine speed, and the gears just couldn't handle the torgue, resulting in stripped and/or broken gears as well as broken bearings and housings. NOT because the transmission wasn't in sync. The transmission probably WAS in sync when they dropped the clutch.

That all applies to when you are UP shifting, DOWN shifting is a whole nother ball game, since the gears are being driven by the momentum of the vehicle. You could also destroy your engine as well as may other parts in your drive train. Use your brakes, that's what they are for. The only time you should, in my opinion, use your engine to slow you down, is if you are going down a long steep grade, and then only do it in conjunction with your brakes on occasion.

Personally, I think a manufacturer is crazy to warrant some parts on high performance cars like the WRX. They know from the git-go, that people are going to take advantage of them. It just increases to cost for the rest of us. (Bet I get an ear-full over that statement.) I guess they have to though, or they wouldn't sell very many if they said it doesn't come with a warranty.

Happy driving!

Ken

barresa62

I currently have 18,200 miles on my 5spd WRX wagon. The worst mileage I got was in winter, all-city miles, and pretty much into the boost all the while; 15.6 mpg. The best I got was about a month ago staying w/cruise at about 5mph over the speed limit and also including some serious mountain crossings; 25.7 mpg. My overall average since March 2001 is 19.7 mpg. This is mainly city driving sprinkled liberally w/some freeway. As a side note, it seems I'm getting about 1mpg better overall per tankful w/the Vishnu Stage 0 setup vs stock.

Stephen

lilbluewgn02

My worst so far in morning Ft. Lauderdale traffic has been around 18 mpg. average was around 20mpg city driving. Best has been 25.9.

prayerfor

Stephen -- That's great... the Vishnu kit pays for itself! Gotta try that logic with my *associate*!

BTW any ill effects from the setup? I heard the underdriven pulley can cause problems, and then there's always the risk of CELs. How's your luck been so far?

barresa62

The only problems I've had is with the stock EGT probe that is normally in the stock uppipe to protect the pre-cat from high-temps that might destroy it and send pieces flying into the turbo. The Vishnu uppipe does away w/the pre-cat but leaves a bung hole for the stock EGT probe to be inserted. My EGT probe has popped out twice. It's not getting a good "seat" in there. There have been several incidents w/other folks and this problem. A lot of people do away w/the stock EGT probe since it is not the type that can be used w/an interior gauge. It's only purpose is to protect the now-defunct pre-cat. To close the bung hole folks have used 12mm x 125mm bolt w/nut and a 2.2 ohm resistor to fool the ECU.

The first time the EGT probe popped out, I took it back to the shop that installed and they re-tightened. The second time I decided to re-install myself. I got some high-temp Lok-tite and applied to the EFT probe thread. So far, so good. It's been about a week and a half. I also contacted Shiv @ Vishnu and he sent my a new seat for the probe. He said he was aware that some folks have had this problem w/the stock probe and his uppipe but that it was rare....go figure it would happen to me! :-)

I've only got a CEL once w/the Vishnu pkg. It flashed a couple of times while I was on the freeway and went away. I used my Pocketlogger & Palm Pilot to pull the code. It never registered in the ECU. For comparison's sake, I got two CELs w/the WRX stock.

Stephen

kevin111

I have heard that it can boost power by +50 hp for about $900-$1000, but have no idea what it does or how it can adversely affect the car or the warrantee.

barresa62

First off it's a power mod so the warranty can be placed in jeopardy depending on 1) how crazy you are w/beating on your car, and/or 2) how mod-friendly your dealer is. The mods themselves do not void the warranty. They would have to be proven to have contributed to the warranted work you would have being done by the dealer.

The Vishnu Stage 0 includes/does the following:

1)Colder NGK spark plugs. Allows the WRX to run stronger and more efficient. Downside is that they can foul quicker than the stock plugs if all one does is stop-n-go driving.
2)Underdrive pulley/belts. This is a lighter pulley that puts less strain on the crank. It is good for almost 10hp of the 50hp or so gain. As far as I can tell it does not affect the running of the accessories.
3)MBC (manual boost controller). The stock max boost for the WRX is 14.3 psi. The MBC will allow you to set higher (up to 17psi, I believe). I have mine set at the beginning recommended level as per Shiv @ Vishnu (15.5 psi). The stock fuel cut-off that comes into play when the ECU senses more than 17 psi remains as a safety measure. For comparison's sake, the stock boost controller drops the boost down to 8-9 psi at redline. The MBC allows for 12+ psi at redline. Believe you me, this is a noticeable difference when driving!!
4)Unichip. This is a piggyback chip to the ECU. It monitors timing, fuel, air, etc in relation to all the mods in this pkg. It can be remapped to include future mods.
5)Uppipe. This replaces the stock uppipe. This is the pipe that comes from the turbo and hooks into the downpipe. The downpipe joins to the center pipe, then the center pipe to the rear section. The Vishnu uppipe is a bigger pipe and does away with the stock pre-cat. It allows the exhaust to exit quicker and the turbo to spool up faster. I've noticed that w/the MBC and uppipe, I'm building boost at almost 500 rpms earlier. Torque is also increased. The net effect is that there isn't such a large dead spot as before. It effectively makes the WRX a lot more enjoyable to drive, especially in traffic.

I'm probably getting a bit better mileage now because I don't have to "put my foot into it" to get more power. Hope this synopsis helps.

Stephen

kevin111

It also sounds like that, besides the boost and crankshaft, does not put any more strain on the system. Hmmm, something to look into in the future.

Thanks Stephen!

mgreene1

The only thing that really has to be "proved" is that your mods may be outside factory specs and are directly related to the problem. In reality, you'll be the one who has to "prove" the mods are within the factory specs and street legal. Good luck.

strider98

are you going to put in a cold air filter also? Or does that come with the Vishnu Stage 1? Speaking of which, what does that come with?

barresa62

Thanks for the clarification but that's basically what I said. I also have a cadre of lawyer friends that would love to take on a dealer. Believe me, they would have the dealer and SOA proving my mods caused said "warranted problem", not the other way around. :-)

Strider: No plans for the cold air filter. I'm not completely sure what the Stage 1 will contain (no one but the folks at Vishnu are sure so far..)
What I do know is that it contains a turboback exhaust w/one hi-performance cat.

Stephen

strider98

barresa62

Here's Vishnu's website:

http://www.vishnuperformance.com/stage.htm

Stephen

paisan

The problem with your thinking is that yes you can sue SOA but you have to ante up the $ first to sue them to get the $ back. Or you can leave the car sitting @ the dealer until it's resolved. I wouldn't want to have to fight them on it. most of my mods are reversible easily.

-mike

barresa62

I've been through this inner-dialog a million + times! I'm fully aware that all is not La-La Land when talking about mods and warranty. It's a gamble at best. I drive a performance car and want more performance from it. A feat that the WRX is wholly capable and designed for. I'm not talking about re-inventing the wheel (pardon the pun) or asking the WRX to do things beyond its potential. Everyone has to make the decision on their own as to how comfortable they feel about the scope of mods they do to their cars.

SOA's position on mods is "walking a thin line" at best. I know all about their "intended for off-road use only" warnings and "not covered by warranty" for the SPT/STi parts they sell over the counter. Many dealers also sell aftermarket parts at the dealer such as MRT, COBB, etc. An argument could easily be made that Subaru actually encourages owners to mod their cars (especially WRXs). I'm not dissing Subaru (I love the company, man!) Patti, are ya listening? LOL! Bottomline for me is to wait and see how certain mods perform for other folks then decide whether or not to incorporate on my WRX. I'm fortunate to have a mod-friendly dealer too. In fact, a dealer that actually sponsors rallying (Subiegal) and sells MRT parts over the counter.
Life's a gamble. I just try to enjoy it which includes some risks...that's just me! :-)

Stephen

ponm

Whats life without risks, we all need a little excitement in our lives. Like George Carlin said about taken risks," what, you plan on sitting around your whole life with your .... in your hands" I say mod on Stephen.

mgreene1

If you want a faster car, then go ahead and mod. Just don't kid yourself about the risk. If you run into problems, a mod friendly dealer or an annoying lawyer might help get a goodwill repair, but the other side is holding all the cards. If the mods aren't legal, your're pretty much screwed. You'd be a fool to go into court and risk the penalties, and the violations would help the other side paint you out to be a tampering, negligent [non-permissible content removed].

barresa62

mgreene1: I choose to take the risk but I'm hardly negligent or naive. I'm a car enthusiast, and as such I will always be on the "other side" of the manufacturer when it comes to mods. That's the nature of the beast. Comes with the territory. Each mod I do I weigh the benefits and risks before I proceed. A side benefit to my performance mods is that I'm much more diligent with the care of my car, far and above the recommended maintenance intervals per SOA. I know much more about my WRX then most folks do theirs (even more than I planned on..). If anything the mods I've done have educated me about my car. :-)

Stephen

cinosweive

What the heck does Subaru mean when they sell suspension components "for off road use only"? They also state that the suspension mods may not be legal in every state. I would think that any suspension mod would either improve handling or make it worse. If the mod improves things, then how can it be illegal? If it makes things worse, then why sell it in the first place? I had always thought that the only trade-offs were comfort vs performance. Can anyone here explain this stuff to me?

bruticus

Here's my understanding.

In terms of "for off road use only," suspension mods that are designed for off-road use do things like alter spring rates, suspension travel, and caster/camber/toe settings in the car's alignment. For example, when you're offroading and hit a boulder with a front wheel, the steering wheel will kickback against your grip; serious offroaders tweak their steering so this doesn't happen. A side effect is that paved-road performance may be adversely affected, making emergency-avoidance maneuvers more difficult.

As for legal issues, manufacturers build and warrant their cars assuming that the vehicles are maintained in their stock condition. Insurance companies insure them assuming that drivers will stay within a certain "activities envelope." Changing mechanical bits and/or pushing that activities envelope can put the car at risk of damage that is warranty-covered, but was generated by activities that the car was not designed for, and that insurance companies don't count on when setting rates.

In other words, suppose you're out 4-wheeling in your WRX and a stone shatters your windshield and you file a comprehensive claim. If enough drivers do this, the insurance company is forced to up premiums for ALL WRX owners, not just those who go "outside the envelope."

DjB

robmarch

also includes track use, from a legal standpoint. Subaru is just covering their legal liability by saying "here's a better suspension which allows you to drive faster" but doesn't want to be sued if people wreck at high speeds and blame the suspension. basically, they're selling the parts for big $ for all of the people who buy the WRX as a trailer riding track car, when they fully understand that most of the parts will find their way to the street.

hunter001

The "Performance suspension" of Subaru is the suspension available on the high performance WRX STi in the other markets. Even though it says SPT (Subaru Performance Tuning) on the packing material, the part numbers are the same as the stronger/better STi parts.

Since the STi is yet to arrive in the US, Subaru has not done any crash testing with the stronger/more durable STi parts in the US . Due to this reason, Subaru cannot legally sell a car with this suspension installed from the factory, nor can any Subaru Dealers (Subaru Franchises) legally install this much better suspension on your car. They also cannot legally offer a factory warranty on these better/stronger components, because then it is an admission of an official sale of componentry that has not been specifically tested by the Government on US cars. You watch these components once and you will realise that the if the regular WRX suspension can last the official 3yr/36K warranty, these components can go thrice that period without any problems. They are that much more durable !!

Due to the above reason, Subaru has to affix stickers on the suspension package that states "For off-highway application only...." and "this suspension can only be legally installed by the purchaser of this car" etc. It is basically a covering of their rear end, from an EPA perspective. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the suspension itself.

The good thing about this suspension is that it is Factory engineered specifically for the truly High-performance WRX STi and thus is a direct bolt-on to the pedestrian WRX (available in the US). The components are much beefier and have an inverted strut design for much better control, both on curves and also in a straight line. It would also not have any detrimental effects that are normally associated with poorly engineered aftermarket components. Hell, else Subaru would not be selling these in their official website, even with all these disclaimers !!

Later...AH

silver_bullet

I doubt the EPA gives a rat's patootie about suspension mods, but the DOT on the other hand might like to have a word with you ;-)

strider98

nschulman3

I finally got my rims and tires alst week. I purchased the Rota Attacks in steel grey with Bridgestone Potenza SO3 Pole Position tires (225-45-17). The difference is incredible. I had replaced the stock re-92s with Dunlop sp5000 asymetricals and they were an improvement, but these tires stick like glue. You can drive more agressively and with more confidence. The only negative is that the tires seem to wander a lot on grooved pavement, especially in city driving at slow speeds. I had heard that this was the biggest drawback of the pole positions, but bought them anyway. Some people prefer the Toyo proxess T1-S. I am glad that I purchased these tires, but am curious to see if anyone has this setup or a similar one with the toyos or another performance tire with 17" rims. Also, has anyone installed a high performance muffler on their car? I am not going to get a cobb or vishnu upgraded turbo kit for a few years and am pretty happy with the engine as is. However, I find myself constantly wishing for a litter more noise from the engine. I was thinking of purchasing the wrx performance muffler. I can get it from subaru for $395 and it will not cause any problems with the warranty. I realize it may give me little or no hp gain, but the sound alone may be worth the price and there are no risks involved. Any opinions?

kevin111

The 16" tires supposedly handle with 0.82 gs.
The 17" 215s (as per R&T) handle with 0.87 gs. A significant difference.

On the road, the car feels like it was meant to handle better than the stock 16" tires allow.

One other comment: This car is an incredible highway vehicle! Changing lanes, passing, and emergency manuevers when cars cut you off is absolutely great in this car!

utjon

I'm looking at new cars.. looks like the WRX is awesome.. I'm going through the 7000 posts here though to make sure (skipping over the dead horse of audi/bmw vs.. at post 1500 now).

Anyway, I was wondering:
1. If you guys could buy it again, would you?
2. Have there been any major problems reported yet? I've seen some used going with 20-40k miles on them already. I saw that a lot of people were complaining about the breaks on all subarus.

This would be my first subbie, and my first import car. I've gotten fed up with the poor quality of American cars... who knows, maybe a subie4life

-Jon