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Comments
I have never had a leak in the Acura's door seal, and the only "problem" I have is that, at 135,000 miles, it occasionally "hangs" on the outer seal. I think it's a slight collapsing of the window crank stop, and could be adjusted very easily, once it starts to warm up and stop raining.
I am seriously considering the WRX wagon. Anyone know anything about the wagon vs. coupe handling characteristics or tire sizes? The brochure hints that the coupe only gets the 17" tires.
I have been racking my brain on this EXACT same decision myself, and this is what I concluded.
I am picking up my WRX tomorrow (barring disaster).
I test drove both vehicles. The most important thing to me was sheer driving enjoyment. I define that by impeccable handling, powerful acceleration, crisp braking while feeling 100% in control.
There are some real differences between the two cars. The A4 is simply gorgeous throughout (I drove the '01 A4 2.8 Quattro). I have never had a car that made me feel as comfortable driving in a suit and tie as that A4 did. In comparison, the Subaru's cockpit reminded my of my old '65 Jeep. Very spartan.
I had the pleasure of driving the A4 on a rainy day, and it really impressed me as far as road holding under duress goes. I gave that thing the what for (salesman was not present thank god). However, I didn't feel as integral to the driving experience in the A4 as I did with the WRX.
So, this is how I figured it out.
The A4 wins in the 'Class' department hands down. If the only thing I was concerned about was getting from point A to point B whith class and a bit of fun, the A4 would be the clear winner. This extends to the daily traffic commute as well. If that was all that mattered to me, I would take the Audi.
But the WRX was something special to drive, maybe it is my 5'8" frame, but the WRX made me feel more in touch with the turns of the road, and even though the acceleration wasn't as well mannered as the A4, it made up for it in spades going through a tight turn at speed. Keep the revs high on the WRX, and you will be rewarded with a powerful driving experience.
I felt in control and definitively in touch with the road while driving that WRX. The A4 was less connected in my opinion. Almost as though it acted as a muffler of sorts. Not only did it blissfully mute the mundane traffic experience, it also toned down the exciting rush of hard acceleration through a corner. It is an unfortunate side effect in my opinion, but very real regardless.
All said and done, I had to decide if I wanted to be rowdy or refined for the next 2-3 years. I ended up picking rowdy.
I think my Dad actually summed it up best when he said [regarding the A4], "If you didn't know that you could have had more power, you would be happy in this car".
He is totally right. Maybe next go round I will want refinement, but this time, I am shooting for raw fun.
(P.S. Graham Goode has a kick butt headlight replacement package that replaces the 'I AM A NEON ON STEROIDS' bug eyed lamps. The replacements kind of look a bit Aston Martiny if you ask me).
BTW, I have a silver 5sp WRX wagon on order that should be here anyday. Coming from the Integra, I think you'll really like this car (sedan or wagon). They both have that rare connectiveness to the road which makes you feel a integral part of the driving experience instead of just being along for the ride.
Stephen
*Both the wagon and sedan have what I call a slight 'disconnected' feeling between the front and rear end that can be felt with abrupt (not abusive) steering input. The steering response is good but it's as if the rear end skips a beat before it follows. My reference is a '93 Nissan NX2000 with 176,000 miles. To be fair, the NX is lighter, lower, and a 2 door coupe. Also, perhaps most importantly, I'm running Dunlop SP8000 tires (as opposed to the B/S RE92's on the WRX's). This disconnected feeling, though minor, was more apparent in the wagon. Finally, I have noticed the same feeling in my NX2000 when running snow tires (Pirreli W190's on front, B/S Blizzaks on rear). Which leads to my second point...
*The B/S RE92 tires may be the cause of the slightly 'loose' handling I felt and should be replaced. In fact, I'm suprised that with three versions of the Impreza, Subaru doesn't put more high-performance rubber on the WRX, and save the RE92's for the others.
*The stereo upgrade is definitely not worth it. There was an abundance of bass, but it was boomy and 'muddy', not tight and musical. Many mfr's these days work with high-end audio companies like Bose, Infinity, and JBL. They do such a good job that there is no reason to go to the aftermarket. That is definitely NOT the case here. I'm glad I stuck with the stock stereo.
*For my money, the 5 speed is the only way to go. The auto is a typical slush box-nothing special. When accelerating, there is a significant lag before it downshifts. Even when manually shifting thru the gears, it seems significantly slower than the 5 speed. The auto so blunts the character of the WRX that if a person had to have an auto, I would recommend saving some money and buying the Impreza RS or TS.
I didn't think the 5 speed was as slick shifting as I've read. Not bad at all, just not what I expected from various reviews. Could be that these two WRX's are straight off the truck-that shifter could very well get better with age.
*The chasis seems very solid. I purposely took both WRX's over rough local roads with pot holes and speed bumps-no squeeks or rattles. Body flex was minimal, it had a feeling of solidity.
*Both seemed very quiet. Of course this is subjective (I did not have a db meter) and relative to the vehicles I'm familiar with, but I can't imagine anyone being disappointed here.
*The seats are comfortable and it was relatively easy to find a good driving position with tilt wheel and the seat height adjustment. I'm 6'2", 235lbs, and I've had a hard time finding anything other than a truck or full size sedan that I could fit into comfortably. The WRX is a pleasant surprise. After adjusting the driver's seats I got in the left rear and still had room for my legs-this with the driver's seat all the way back! The wagon has a little more head and leg room ( for anyone much taller than 6'2").
*The turbo lag was mild, again relative to the two turbocharged vehicles I have owned. To someone who is not used to it, it may be more noticeable. I did not want to abuse these vehicles and so did not take them over 4,500rpm-but I imagine that if they are kept in the upper half of their operating range (turbo spooled up) there would be no lag to speak of. Also, the low end torque of these engines is very impressive, considering that they are after all only 2L 4cyl. With my wife in the wagon, I purposely kept it in fifth gear while climbing Catoctin Mnt. outside Frederick, MD. We're talking slow speed, low rpm (approx. 1,800) steep uphill slogging. It did VERY well-no bucking or knocking just a slow drop in rpm until I finally downshifted. Overall, Subaru has done a very good job with this engine-high power, high mileage, and tractable. I'm not sure what some people are complaining about. I do agree with the '93 SE-R owner who said his Sentra felt faster until the WRX's turbo kicked in (my NX has the same drivetrain).
Overall, I'm glad I placed an advance order and I can't wait for my blue 5 speed sedan.
Um, are you forgetting the GT Limited??? I mean, my parents have one, and you should see the looks it gets from the Beemer crowd! (seriously! Its hilarious!) And after sitting in everything from Audi's to BMW's to lexus, and back down to everything else below that in the sub $30k range, the got the GT cause it drove surprizingly simular to the 3-series yet had AWD, and the leather just feels different for some reason which put it aside... (The leather in the GT isnt soft, and doesnt seem to get as hot or cold in different weather) Its definatly a near-lux car guys!
I finally actually "drove" a WRX today. I LOVE the steering and handling in this car! Its just so much more in tune with everything around you its amazing. Although, i didnt care much for the Automatic tranny, cause it bogged down for a second when I was accelerating at a low speed to get onto the freeway... Very simular to the Legacy's bogging down at low speeds with the Auto tranny. (Either its cause of the lack of brake in, the AWD power distribution, or the tranny, or all of the above :P) Everything else was perfect! Im soo looking forward to when I can get an RS! (I cant afford the WRX :P)
Oh, and I thought I'd mention, the new A4 is out
Mmcbride, want to come?
The front end is an entirely different story. Personally, I don't think the Impreza looks like *any* other car from the front. Whether you like it or dislike it, it is unique; from the front, there is no mistaking that you are looking at a Subie.
Regards,
-wdb
I haven't driven a WRX but I do own a A4 1.8T. I can say that I like the car a lot due to its class, interior and exterior design, attention to detail, "prestige" and refinement. However, as a driver who loves to really push it once in a while, I feel the A4 is more of a tourer. If you do flog it, it ends up being a bit flustered. The engine doesn't seem to give much more when you rev it, the steering is very dull and too light feeling, and the chassis is way too soft if you don't choose the sports suspension option (a must-have if you ask me). The A4's gearshift is a bit rubbery also. And the Quattro system is still set up to understeer at the limit.
From what I've heard the WRX seems to be better in all the areas that the A4 falls short of in a sports sedan: great steering, a revvable engine, good gearshift, good chassis tuning with neutral balance. Oversteer is easy to provoke if needed. All stuff that makes it a more sporting experience. I think the disappointment comes from people who expected supercar like performance. If you think of it as a small and heavy, but very quick, car that has economy car roots, I don't think you will come away disappointed. Like all small engined turbo cars, it demands a bit more from the driver. I have driven laggy turbo cars and it does require a slight change in attitude and driving style but it's easy to get used to the slight delay before the boost comes on. You probably won't be able to always extract the performance you want out of it in day to day driving. All in all, I feel it adds to the fun factor.
Personally my reliability experience with the Audi has been average, it has been in the shop more than any Japanese car I've owned previously and the cost of maintenance does seem rather high.
Ah, the comments regarding the the Impreza's styling never seem to cease. As successful as the WRX is, can you imagine how much "more" successful it could have been, if it was a real looker?
Also, if the new Impreza had debuted without an ultra-performance model like the WRX, how successful do think it would be? Can you you say D O G?
Bob
With regards to Dellwell and Uniballer, I went through the exact same dilemma. I was trying to decide between the WRX wagon or an A4 Avant 1.8T. Rear seat room wasn't a huge concern since I have two small kids (3-1/2 and 2), but I am impressed with the amount of room in back. I even went out to dinner with the folks the other day and my mom rode in back between the two car seats! While it was snug, she said it was okay. Better her than i!
Bottom line decision for me was the fun factor. Audis make great cars. Comfy, decent performance, fit and finish, status, etc... The WRX has goofy headlights, cloth interior, no heated seats or sunroof, but is a blast to drive. I will do an occasional TSD road rally and I just felt the WRX is better equipped to handle that. Now if Audi does in fact bring the S6 Avant to the States...
Anyway, I had looked at it as either way, I was going to be getting a fun car to drive. The fact that I would have had to wait about two months for the Audi (was going for a hibiscus red pearl 5-spd with cold weather and sport pkg) as opposed to 4 days to wait for my WRX (got a red wagon, supposedly only 3 on the East Cost), certainly helped.
Good luck to those who are trying to decide whether to get it or not. And for those of you waiting for delivery, it's worth the wait!
Now to come up with a good vanity plate...
LILRDWGN too silly?
T-WRX too obscure?
227 HP too obvious?
ZOOMZOOM too Mazda?
Later,all!
Oliver
According to Edmunds, a '97 M3 is going for a little over $27K. That's almost $3K more than the WRX. But, if you want to spend $3K more for a car that is over 4 years old, then be my guest. And, I'd be willing to bet $3K won't be all that you'd have to part with. If you buy a 4-year old vehicle with, say, 50,000 miles, do you think it will be maintenance free for the next couple of years? I know when I trade in a car, you can bet that it at least needs brakes and a tune-up in the next 6 months. (And I know I'm not the only one considering that we've had my wife's Forester for about 6 mos. and had to do the brakes last week and now its due for a tune-up).
I'm not putting it down, I like M3s, but I don't think I'd compare these 2 particular vehicles. In any case, good luck with your purchase.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Confused me at first, too, when I was looking at M3. I heard BMW didn't even want to make a 4-door version, but it was required by the US market--as was the automatic tranny. On an M car!
So then shouldn't it be M3 3/4 to denote the M3 in either 3 or 4-door configuration? Otherwise, I could be referring to the M-coupe (although then the 4 wouldn't make sense).
Eh, whatever.
thanks
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
M3 is assumed to be the coupe because it came first
M3/4 means sedan, as above
MZ3 (although I've also seen Z3M) is the coupe/roadster
X5 is the SAV, so the performance/Motorsport version would be MX5, right? Bzzzt--that's a Miata! They had to come up with some goofy name for the performance version.
kostamojen - the 'new' A4 won't be here in showrooms until the fall. I'll already have my new car by then, but thanks for the offer.
To all - would you rather we took the A4 vs. WRX discussion elsewhere, or do you want it here? I'd happily make a new topic to get the Audi talk out of here.
Stephen
Stephen
I mentioned last Saturday that a highly- tractable Mitsubishi rally car was released in such limited qty to USA - 2000 vehicles - that no one remembers it today. The car was/is the Galant VR-4. 200 BHP. 2-liter four. Turbo with intercooler. AWD. Leather. Sunroof. Even four wheel steering, whatever that meant. Two years of production: 1991 and 1992. My price in November 1990: $22,000.
Recent postings have said Mitsubishi won't answer WRX introduction in USA. I'm saying they must. I've owned an Audi Quattro and it's not a driver's car. May be revealing too much by saying that I started driving and spent 8 years with a BMW 2002. But, my 10 years with Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 have been the best ever.
Galant VR-4 gives up nothing in snow/ice of Wisconsin. I change to Blizzaks in November, else run Z-rated Comp TA's. Alloy wheels may be pitted, killed a deer or two with the car, stereo is failing, but that's it. Car is still a blast to drive.
Years back, my VR-4 was competitive with Porsche 911's driven by gentleman owners at Blackhawk Farms and Road America. Tire valve caps on my Audi had melted when driven at same tracks (!).
My Subaru dealer has no WRX's in stock, so I have no choice but to wait for worthy successor from Mitsubishi.
-Colin
People remember the VR-4, ive seen lots of posts and stuff about it even on the I-club...
And the WRX will be competitive with 911's as well
Thanks
It really isn't any different from the 93-01 Impreza with respect to visibility IMO.
-Colin
I will say that my new WRX does bring back fond memories. Shifter is much nicer. My VR-4 always felt like shifting a truck. Never could tell if the 4-wheel steering worked, but the thing loved to cruise at 110!
In terms of visibility, I have noticed that it is taking some getting used to when backing up. Then again, I was driving a VW Golf, which had great rearward visibility. I agree with Colin that the seating makes forward visibility very nice. Being able to adjust the seat height is a nice touch, as well.
Oliver
I had the opportunity the other day to compare a new '02 Outback Sport and a '01 Outback Sport, that were next to one another, and while the total glass area is similar—what you are able to look through is much less with the new model.
So, if you're looking over your right shoulder, through that rear quarter window, you can't see as much if you were doing the same on last year's model.
Bob
I call my local Subaru dealer and they have one in stock, on the showroom floor. It has a MSRP of a little over $25, 000.00. next to that they have an add on ticket with the letters"AMV" for actual market value. It has a price over $30,000.00! They also said I couldn't test drive the vehicle "until we sat down and did some numbers" because they were putting too many miles on this vehicle. Asked for a brochure, didn't have any! I walked out! Bob dance in Sanford, FL for anyone that wants to know. Hope some Subaru people read this and give these boyz a call.
Nice way to do business!
Really thought the car was neat, sat in front and back to check leg room. Will probably look at buying one, but not from above dealer. What kind of prices have you been paying and where at?
Thanx a bunch
jbreez1
Cheers,
-wdb
IIRC, there's one in NC selling at $150 over invoice. Not much info on that one. A dealer upstate NY is selling at $400 over invoice. Here in NJ, Flemington Subaru has an internet special of $600 over invoice.
It's sad to see so many crooks out there.
Dennis
http://www.mastro.subaru.com/ or ask for Pete Mastro..
also take a look on the I-Club: http://www.i-club.com/
or this private site with lots of info and pics: http://www.new-impreza.com/ and click on "Where To Buy"
TC
Only then there is a valid comparison. I'd be surprised if either the STI or EVO 7 would make it to US for much less than $30K. (I know the mags say $26K) The WRX STi is comparable to performance but the EVO 7 should be able to beat it.
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
The one in North Caroline selling for $150 over invoice is Cross Creek Subaru in Fayetteville. There is a "doc fee" of $245, so final price (and dealer profit) is about the same as Van Bortel.
My local Michigan dealer is selling it for MSRP, so I'm going to bargain it down or buy from Van Bortel.
Why does Subaru only put good motors in Sedans and Wagons...ugh ?
Looks like fuel mileage will be 22-23mpg on my mostly interstate commute. I tried some 89 octane last fill -up. No audible pinging. Seat-of-pants dyno can't tell difference from Premium.
Cheap Interior? Depends how you define cheap. Quality or aesthetics. They seem to be of high quality, but admittingly lacking aesthetically. I had a Subaru wagon in the mid 80's with 120k on it. Interior pieces were in great shape. A look at a more contemporary Subie that is several years old will usually reveal an interior that has held up well. Can't say the same for a ten year old WV or Audi
And finally, a little detail from the owners manual. The wagons are set up with 5' less negative camber at both ends than the sedans.
jbreez1: Just try other dealers, some of them are being VERY stingy and its going to take awhile for them to wake up... But, then again, there have always been bad dealers and good dealers, you just have to find the right one
Dont give up so soon.
And as for the H6, its too heavy, too big and only matted to the Automatic transmition, so its not a good choice at all for a small car like the Impreza.
Maybe you should be glad to hear Subaru is planning a new car, probably a sequel to the SVX coupe...
I just bought one today actually. A '97, from a private owner. It has 20k on it, not 50k, and she's clean as a whistle. The BMW dealer said it was one of the best they'd seen. Decent deal too. Low option car so no sunroof, which is what I wanted. Less weight for encounters with you WRX guys ;-)
And yea, what someone implied above was correct, the majority of the sedan M3s are automatics :-(. An utter travesty in my view. M3 coupes weren't offered with automatic but I'm with Kostamojen. Plus, the M3 coupe gives u these punky "darth vader" seats and all this boy racer spoiler stuff.
What's worse, a disturbing # of the M3s I saw were junk and/or had higher mileage. The guys who had really good 5-speed sedans were asking idiotic prices for them. I had to look a lot longer for my deal.
Oh well, I totally digress. This a WRX board. My only connection is I was on the "wait list" for a WRX, and recently got a call saying cars were available at MSRP. I picked the M3 instead. And I'm sure I'll be very happy...until my first repair bill ;-)
Irvine Subaru has a decent web presence, they responded to my e-mail by calling later that day:
www.irvinesubaru.com
So, irvine is a ways from here, but if I come back up 101 I'll be halfway through my break in by the time I get home.