I live in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan and we have among the worst roads in the country. We have potholes everywhere. Because of the potholes my WRX (whenever I get around to buying one) with keep the standard wheels and tires. Low-profile tires don't protect the wheels too well .. I know somebody with 17's on a Saab and he has replaced three wheels in the last two years because of potholes. I don't need a $3,000 option turning into a $4,500 option because I have to keep replacing wheels!
Kevin: that the $3000 you speak of is for the dealer offered BBS wheel only option (most will not buy this because of cost). There are plenty of 17" wheel/tire combos for $1100 - $2000. Anyhow, your point is a good one.
Scott-- tires are simply the most important component of the entire car with respect to cornering ability, handling responsiveness, grip and braking. The 2.5RS was severely handicapped by the RE92s, to me the WRX having them seems completely ridiculous. You can either wait until they are worn out and then re-discover the car, or never go through the misery of it all and replace the RE92s right away.
The bigger question is why does Subaru insist on sticking with the RE92? I mean, the RE730 are from the same manufacturer!
A friend here at work has a Z3 with the big wheel package and he's bent three rims already. Special ordering means his car has been out of commision for months (combined).
Juice-- they want an all-season, for some strange reason. There are higher performance all-seasons, but they're more expensive.
The funny thing is that if they would just go with a summer tire they could get a better tire and spend less -- say like a Continental SportContact. (not an expensive tire.)
I take offense to that. Why would I put snow tires on my car when the roads are clear (even in the winter) 95+% of the time? I like the all-season tires. I don't plan to drive my WRX like a mad man all the time, so I don't need summer tires.
I'm curious about how much better "high-performance" all-season tires are than the stock RE92s. In the two weeks I've had my WRX wagon I've managed to break the stock tires loose a few times, on both dry and snowy surfaces, and under both conditions they seemed to let go a little sooner than I expected. So better tires sound pretty appealing. BUT, I live in Colorado, near Boulder, so it's pretty impractical to do the winter/summer thing. Where I drive, snow is a possibility nine months a year, yet dry pavement is the norm 12 months a year (though often sand or gravel infested). True snow tires would be a heck of a sacrifice most of the time, when the roads are dry, and the rest of the I can reasonably expect to encounter snow (or a lot of dirt and gravel roads, at the least), so summer tires probably aren't the best choice then, either.
It sounds like I'm stuck with all-seasons, unless I want to tote around spare wheels and a jack all year long (sorry, my dog wants to use that space in the back sometimes). Does anyone have real-world experience with "high-performance" all-seasons, like the Dunlop SP5000, Yoko AVS db, or Pirelli P7000? Also, do tire dealers really offer trade-in for used tires?!? That might encourage an early switch for me.
I have a similar situation here in snowy Vermont. I have always run good all-seasons on my FWD car year round. Slow and steady wins the race.
But on my old RWD Volvo 240 wagon, I run Cooper snows.
The Dunlop SP5000 is a VERY popular tire with the VW crowd. Comparing it's "stats" on the Tire Rack site, it has better grip in the dry, wet and snow then either of the stock Passat tires [i](Michelin Energy's and Continental C95's).[/i]
DO NOT BUY SP5000 SYMMETRICAL!!! i drove 35K on them, and after first 10K they stopper responding while driving on wet road... like they are slicks... no traction whatsoever... it happends because they're losing the protector depth really fast and they slide like slicks... and also it has very soft sidewalls and eventhough i have tight suspention, they take off all the fun... so DO NOT BUY THEM!!! for references i have '91 240SX SE fastback... planning to buy 2002 WRX...
I agree - it does seem goofy to put RE92s on this car when RE730s wouldn't cost SOA much more, but I'd bet it is just a compromise to make the lowest common denominator-type owner happy with tire life. That, plus some paranoid attorneys worrying about exposing the company to lawsuits somehow related to the fitting of high performance tires. Don't laugh - a group of NSX owners filed a class action suit over the ultra short tire life they got from the stock, high performance tires that came on their cars from the factory. Go figure.
I remember that the NY Times had an article about that...The NSXs were running with Yokohamas that were lasting an average of only 3000-5000 miles(and they were very expensive).
Yeah, Acura got Yokohama to produce some pretty trick tires. I remember talking to my regular salesguy at the Tire Rack, and he said each corner of the NSX had a specific tire - the tires actually had instructions on the sidewall telling you where the tire had to be fitted! Talk about specialized... and VERY expensive. They were super soft, and helped Acura achieve some very high lateral G numbers.
Over the past few weeks there have been many discussions about test driving of customer cars. If you've ordered a car and expect that it will not be test driven, all I can say is "good luck" and you might want to insist that the car have less than 10 miles on it or so.
I had a silver wagon on order and the salesman called me up to say it was "in" and ready to go. Well, the car had nearly 35-miles on it and the salesman simply said that was "normal." He threw the keys my way and encouraged me to take it out and let it rip.
I didn't buy the car for reasons apart from the test drive, but unless you really need a car right now, my suggestion is to wait six-months and let the fever die down - better prices, fewer intial production bugs, and less "I wonder what she'll do" attention on the dealer's lot.
i'm looking for some advice on tire sizes for aftermarkets to replace those crappy RE92's... i want to go wider, and right now want to stay with the 16's. Since I have used Toyo's before (and LOVE them) I have convinced myself that is where i want to stay... here are the sizes and the style... my dealer can't seem to tell me if they will rub or if i will be ok... any clues?
Toyo Proxes T1-S 225/45/16 (preferred) 215/55/16
any help will be greatly appreciated... my first Sube's coming SOON!
Just around town a bit, in a 5-speed sedan. I know I said you should be nice to these low mile cars, but there is no way to keep it under 4000 while flooring it in first. It is to 6000 rpm before your brain even thinks about shifting. It does shift really smooth, although I don't think I ever left 2nd gear. Starting from a dead stop was effortless, you could just go easy with the normal flow of traffic or leave the line like a expedition just rear ended you. It was a lot of fun. The dealer drove first and really took some corners hard. I was more interested in the acceleration. I would really love to get one of these with 10,000 miles on it and just rev it and dump the clutch. Do that and take it to 60 in 2nd gear and I bet you get under 5.5 sec 0-60. This whole test drive was with a full tank and 3 200+lb people. Fun, fun, fun.
My cousins 97 240sx just ended up in a wall on the weekend cause of rain... That car has poor grip in bad weather no matter what tires you put on (mostly cause of the RWD). He was just changing lanes and hit a puddle when the car did a couple of 360's... Hes getting a Jetta now (I made him test drive a 2002 RS today, he really loved the way the AWD drove and how the car drove, but hes such a stickler for looks, and cant stand the Impreza :P He needs it though, to save his butt from hitting the wall again in the rain...)
I'm looking for some advice... It seems almost impossible to get the WRX I want for a reasonable price anywhere near me, so I was thinking about purchasing it on CarsDirect.com. But I'm not familiar with buying online and how reliable it is. Are any of you familiar with this method of buying? I'd love to get some input on it... Thanks.
#1097: I checked out the Potenza S-02's. I'm now trying to decide between them and the RE730's.
#1101: It's true the RE92's limits are easier to find, but any good hi perf tire should announce it's limits early and break away smoothly.
#1104: Excellent point about potholes and rim damage. I plan to stick with 16" rims for that reason.
#1109: You're correct that many people are content to simply slap a set of all season tires on their car and forget about it. However, the WRX is special. I'd like to think that the majority of its buyers aren't 'average'. In my opinion, Subaru blew it by using the RE92's on the WRX.
#1110,1111+1112: Our roads here in Frederick, MD, are also clear 95+% of the time, but to me that means I can run 'summer' tires 95% of the time. With an impact wrench (electric or air) and a floor jack it's easy enough to swap tires.
#1114: It is possible that Subaru was concerned about lawsuits relating to tire wear and/or snow+ice traction, however, the WRX is clearly being marketed as a performance car. The targeted buyers should expect different performance and handling characteristics than the 'typical' Subaru buyer. For example, I drive a '93 Nissan NX2000 (same drivetrain as the Sentra SE-R and Infinity G20). The NX2000 came stock with hi-perf summer rubber along with a warning that the stock tires are not suitable for snow and ice. The visually identical NX1600, which was targeted at the econobox/commuter buyer, came with basic all season tires. I imagine the same was true of the Sentra line. Subaru should seriously consider this approach.
Thanks again for all the good input-let's keep this string going. Potenza S-02 or RE730??
I'm getting boost spiking on boost from 3-4,000rpm. Also, what's that racket when off boost descending to around 3,000rpm whilst engine braking? Kinda sounds like a diesel valvetrain on crack...metallic popping/pinging/clatter (easily drowned out at low radio levels) And the friggin rear view mirrors whistle!!! Actually a very distinct melody. And I couldn't care less (unless something is really wrong with the car)... My wife and I love it, LOVE IT!!! we have a little run we make to Blockbuster (we're in Northridge, CA) descending 1500ft of elevation over 1.7 miles into town, with bends, curves, a couple of full 90degree rt's (no stops) many off camber... I blitz 'em, she squeels with joy (wife, that is), I grit teeth, she (car) yawns, kinda whispers in a sleepy voice, "quit nudging me, I'm napping, wake me when you want to rally". Going back up hill it surges like a perfect curling wave, shoving the car up the sweeping road (except for that bit of boost spiking). All accomplished safely within the break-in limits. All hail FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES!
They may be called all season tires, but they quite simply suck in the snow. I'd wager that the reason Subaru uses them is financial, not legal, and most certainly not to give the cars any degree of useful snow traction.
They're moderately good rain tires; they were really very good for the first couple thousand miles, but the wet performance dropped off after that. Liveable, but nothing special.
The best thing about the RE92's is that I don't feel bad blasting around turns, drifting sideways through gravel, and generally scrubbing them down in a short period of time. That, and I actually *am* looking forward to rediscovering my car when I replace them :-)
...with Toyo F4Zs. Today, in Mass, we are having snow and slush and many puddles. The tires are handling these conditions with ease. I did not know much about these tires but I am happy with them on. I do recommend Toyos, but Pole Postion and Pilots are probably just as good or better.
here is the link for the video test drives....it mentions a 0-60 @6.3 secs, which is slowere than other places got, and that tall people would have trouble..I have read posts from tall people (I am only 5'7") on the i-club that it is very comfortable...
The reviewer is either a nellie driver (6.3 secs??) or doesn't know how to properly launch a WRX for good acceleration times (not that 6.3 is bad, mind ya). As far as tall people having trouble getting comfortable, someone needs to review the height adjustment feature of the driver's seat w/em'. Funny, using 6.3 as a measurement (feet not seconds) one will find that there is plenty o' headroom. Man, sometimes it's a full time job trying to keep these reviewers straight on the facts!
my dealer finally called today and told me his engineers believe that the only tire they can recommend (other than stock size on the 16's) is a 215/40/16... i'm ok with this size but would really like to go to 225... any thoughts on what i'm giving up staying at 215?
I think the width of the rim matters more than the width of the tire.
That said, 215/40 has a much smaller diameter. Your speedo will be way off, by more than 8%. It'll be screaming at very high rpms on the highway, and your gas mileage will tank. It would probably be pretty darn quick, though.
If you look closely you can check how tight the clearances are. I would guess (don't quote me) that 215/50s would fit. They are wider, true, but the diameter is more than 1% smaller, and there has to be a little bit of clearance left.
Guys, i went to subaru site and customized my own wrx... and it came up as 29K... without 3K for tires... but it's MSRP, how much should i pay, i mean how much should i get it for?!? i can bargain,. i'm just not sure which number should be real... thnx
Serge: First off (since this is the sedan section), I will have to say that there's been a lot of talk about the handling difference between the sedan w/it's wider track, less weight, bigger diameter sway bar vs wagon. I have driven both. The wagon displays a bit more roll but honestly, unless one is driving the car like they are on a video feed of America's Most Wanted, you're not going to notice much. Besides, subjectively (IMHO), the wagon has it all over the sedan in the looks dept from the rear view of both vehicles. The extra utility, real rear headrests and extra rear legroom are all pluses w/just a 80 lb weight penalty.
To address your question about the wagon specifically and perhaps compared to the Legacy GT wagon: the WRX wagon is very nimble and controlled. The shorter wheelbase vs the Legacy (& less weight) is really noticeable. Funny thing about wet weather handling, I picked up my WRX wagon just as Seattle finally got it's infamous rain. This thing just tracks like there's no tomorrow. The suspension is firm but not punishing and has great recovering over road imperfections. These comments are true whether your driving the posted speeds or having some fun exploring the upper rpm's (well, really not over 4k rpms as I'm still in my break-in period, only 650 miles to go).
$29k sounds way high. You sure there wasn't a markup included? That's actually the highest price I've ever heard for one.
Given the wagon is $500 cheaper, you could buy an even better 18-22mm adjustable sway bar ($180) and still have $320 left over to begin paying for a set of aftermarket 17" rims.
You are in the messages forum of Edmunds.com, you know. ;-) Go to the homepage and look up the invoice pricing! There are a lot of PIOs that aren't on the list though, like the STi suspension, control arms, etc. If you're getting any of that stuff though, you might have luck in looking up the part number on Glenn's site -- www.new-impreza.com -- and then punching it in to www.subaruparts.com 's nifty online quote requestor.
Anyway I agree with Juice, $29k is a bit much for a WRX no matter how you slice it.
Wai-kai: Go over to www.i-club.com They have plenty of forums specifically for upgrading the WRX. A lot of owners have already sent in pics of their modifications which is helpful to visualize especially regarding wheel/tire upgrades. They also list links to Subaru aftermarket sites. Hope this helps you out.
BTW, I may upgrade to OZ Superleggera 17" wheels & 215/45x17" Bridgestone RE0730 for my WRX wagon(see @ www.tirerack.com)
If you are curious about tall drivers getting comfortable, then let me put you at ease. I am 6'7" tall 225 lbs and test drove a WRX Wagon today. I tried to sit in the Sedan but there wasn't enough head room for me unless I laid the seat back beyond the point that was comfortable for me. I had no trouble at all in the WRX wagon. It was a kick in the pants to drive too. I couldn't really open it up and see what it could do (lots of traffic, middle of downtown et. al.) but a brief stretch of freeway driving gave me all I needed as far as acceleration.
Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for your inquiry. The diameter of the sway bars on all WRX models is 20 mm for the front and 21 mm for the rear. I hope that this settles your dispute. If you need future assistance, please feel free to contact us again. Best wishes!!
Comments
... I long for the smooth roads of the south ...
Anyhow, your point is a good one.
Stephen
-Colin
A friend here at work has a Z3 with the big wheel package and he's bent three rims already. Special ordering means his car has been out of commision for months (combined).
-juice
The funny thing is that if they would just go with a summer tire they could get a better tire and spend less -- say like a Continental SportContact. (not an expensive tire.)
-Colin
We have to remember Subaru sells lots of cars in the snow belt, and most customers are too cheap and lazy to get snow tires. So it's a compromise.
-juice
It sounds like I'm stuck with all-seasons, unless I want to tote around spare wheels and a jack all year long (sorry, my dog wants to use that space in the back sometimes). Does anyone have real-world experience with "high-performance" all-seasons, like the Dunlop SP5000, Yoko AVS db, or Pirelli P7000? Also, do tire dealers really offer trade-in for used tires?!? That might encourage an early switch for me.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
-Sean
But on my old RWD Volvo 240 wagon, I run Cooper snows.
The Dunlop SP5000 is a VERY popular tire with the VW crowd. Comparing it's "stats" on the Tire Rack site, it has better grip in the dry, wet and snow then either of the stock Passat tires [i](Michelin Energy's and Continental C95's).[/i]
LOL, Scott. How dare Acura actually use an appropriate tire for a sports car!
-juice
-juice
-juice
-Colin
I had a silver wagon on order and the salesman called me up to say it was "in" and ready to go. Well, the car had nearly 35-miles on it and the salesman simply said that was "normal." He threw the keys my way and encouraged me to take it out and let it rip.
I didn't buy the car for reasons apart from the test drive, but unless you really need a car right now, my suggestion is to wait six-months and let the fever die down - better prices, fewer intial production bugs, and less "I wonder what she'll do" attention on the dealer's lot.
- Mark
Toyo Proxes T1-S
225/45/16 (preferred)
215/55/16
any help will be greatly appreciated... my first Sube's coming SOON!
The 225/50-16 is stock rolling diameter-- same as a 205/55-16.
-Colin
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html
buy the ASYMMETRICAL ones
here's the survey:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/uhpas.jsp
#1097: I checked out the Potenza S-02's. I'm now trying to decide between them and the RE730's.
#1101: It's true the RE92's limits are easier to find, but any good hi perf tire should announce it's limits early and break away smoothly.
#1104: Excellent point about potholes and rim damage. I plan to stick with 16" rims for that reason.
#1109: You're correct that many people are content to simply slap a set of all season tires on their car and forget about it. However, the WRX is special. I'd like to think that the majority of its buyers aren't 'average'. In my opinion, Subaru blew it by using the RE92's on the WRX.
#1110,1111+1112: Our roads here in Frederick, MD, are also clear 95+% of the time, but to me that means I can run 'summer' tires 95% of the time. With an impact wrench (electric or air) and a floor jack it's easy enough to swap tires.
#1114: It is possible that Subaru was concerned about lawsuits relating to tire wear and/or snow+ice traction, however, the WRX is clearly being marketed as a performance car. The targeted buyers should expect different performance and handling characteristics than the 'typical' Subaru buyer. For example, I drive a '93 Nissan NX2000 (same drivetrain as the Sentra SE-R and Infinity G20). The NX2000 came stock with hi-perf summer rubber along with a warning that the stock tires are not suitable for snow and ice. The visually identical NX1600, which was targeted at the econobox/commuter buyer, came with basic all season tires. I imagine the same was true of the Sentra line. Subaru should seriously consider this approach.
Thanks again for all the good input-let's keep this string going. Potenza S-02 or RE730??
Also, what's that racket when off boost descending to around 3,000rpm whilst engine braking? Kinda sounds like a diesel valvetrain on crack...metallic popping/pinging/clatter (easily drowned out at low radio levels)
And the friggin rear view mirrors whistle!!! Actually a very distinct melody.
And I couldn't care less (unless something is really wrong with the car)...
My wife and I love it, LOVE IT!!! we have a little run we make to Blockbuster (we're in Northridge, CA) descending 1500ft of elevation over 1.7 miles into town, with bends, curves, a couple of full 90degree rt's (no stops) many off camber... I blitz 'em, she squeels with joy (wife, that is), I grit teeth, she (car) yawns, kinda whispers in a sleepy voice, "quit nudging me, I'm napping, wake me when you want to rally".
Going back up hill it surges like a perfect curling wave, shoving the car up the sweeping road (except for that bit of boost spiking).
All accomplished safely within the break-in limits.
All hail FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES!
They're moderately good rain tires; they were really very good for the first couple thousand miles, but the wet performance dropped off after that. Liveable, but nothing special.
The best thing about the RE92's is that I don't feel bad blasting around turns, drifting sideways through gravel, and generally scrubbing them down in a short period of time. That, and I actually *am* looking forward to rediscovering my car when I replace them :-)
My 2 cents,
-wdb
Nothing we haven't heard already...
Are you using premium fuel?
Others have had this problem too:
http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Forum28/HTML/001693.html
-Colin
Looks like they'll share the ST-X platform for a Borrego or some other crossover, though they may use Pontiac or Saab to sell it.
But it's all Subaru, chassis and powertrain. GM will just sell it. It will probably be made at Subaru's plant in Lafayette.
-juice
http://www.edmunds.com/video/roadtests.html?id=nl#
Stephen,
WRX wagon owner
i'm ok with this size but would really like to go to 225... any thoughts on what i'm giving up staying at 215?
That said, 215/40 has a much smaller diameter. Your speedo will be way off, by more than 8%. It'll be screaming at very high rpms on the highway, and your gas mileage will tank. It would probably be pretty darn quick, though.
If you look closely you can check how tight the clearances are. I would guess (don't quote me) that 215/50s would fit. They are wider, true, but the diameter is more than 1% smaller, and there has to be a little bit of clearance left.
-juice
To address your question about the wagon specifically and perhaps compared to the Legacy GT wagon: the WRX wagon is very nimble and controlled. The shorter wheelbase vs the Legacy (& less weight) is really noticeable. Funny thing about wet weather handling, I picked up my WRX wagon just as Seattle finally got it's infamous rain. This thing just tracks like there's no tomorrow. The suspension is firm but not punishing and has great recovering over road imperfections. These comments are true whether your driving the posted speeds or having some fun exploring the upper rpm's (well, really not over 4k rpms as I'm still in my break-in period, only 650 miles to go).
Stephen
Given the wagon is $500 cheaper, you could buy an even better 18-22mm adjustable sway bar ($180) and still have $320 left over to begin paying for a set of aftermarket 17" rims.
-juice
You are in the messages forum of Edmunds.com, you know. ;-) Go to the homepage and look up the invoice pricing! There are a lot of PIOs that aren't on the list though, like the STi suspension, control arms, etc. If you're getting any of that stuff though, you might have luck in looking up the part number on Glenn's site -- www.new-impreza.com -- and then punching it in to www.subaruparts.com 's nifty online quote requestor.
Anyway I agree with Juice, $29k is a bit much for a WRX no matter how you slice it.
-Colin
Pinch those pennies and just get the STi, in that case!
-juice
on tire(brand,size,I prefer TOYO)
suspension
spring
exhaust
ECU
Got any good website for subaru aftermarket?
BTW, I may upgrade to OZ Superleggera 17" wheels & 215/45x17" Bridgestone RE0730 for my WRX wagon(see @ www.tirerack.com)
Stephen
-Colin
If you are curious about tall drivers getting comfortable, then let me put you at ease. I am 6'7" tall 225 lbs and test drove a WRX Wagon today. I tried to sit in the Sedan but there wasn't enough head room for me unless I laid the seat back beyond the point that was comfortable for me. I had no trouble at all in the WRX wagon. It was a kick in the pants to drive too. I couldn't really open it up and see what it could do (lots of traffic, middle of downtown et. al.) but a brief stretch of freeway driving gave me all I needed as far as acceleration.
Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for your inquiry. The diameter of the sway bars on all WRX models is 20 mm for the front and 21 mm for the rear. I hope that this settles your dispute. If you need future assistance, please feel free to contact us again. Best wishes!!
John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.