Postwar Studebakers

uplanderguy

I'd say a couple hours. It's not huge. I think it's nice for a defunct make, and it has an excellent Archives building across the street,but that isn't part of the tour (unless you're looking to do research there). The museum building is two floors and a basement. A lot of the first floor is full of carriages (1852-1910 or so), which I could do with fewer of and more cars, but they are Studebakers! Some presidential carriages there including the one that took Lincoln to Ford's Theater. The top (second) floor is full of primarily post-war cars and trucks, which interests me the most. Don't miss the basement though, which is overflow storage from when the collection upstairs is rotated. Some neat prototypes at the museum too.

They sometimes have non-Studebakers on temporary displays. I understand they have to keep locals coming back, but I wish they'd keep it all Studebaker!

My favorite car in the whole place is the last regular-production-line Stude made in the U.S., a red '64 Daytona Hardtop 4-speed, disc brakes with 23 miles. I just drool over it every time I'm there. It has been stored in various locations since it was built 12/20/63. Studebaker gave it to the City of South Bend.

Pic I took there last weekend:

uplanderguy

Here's the Studebaker Proving Ground clubhouse, on Rt. 2 about 15 miles west of South Bend. I drove out there last weekend too. It's really out in the country. The house is a backdrop for various Stude brochure photos over the years:



Trees spell "STUDEBAKER" from the air--a half-mile long, and they're still visible.

1965 brochure photo taken in front of the clubhouse:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/unclegal/16710435919

uplanderguy

I saw you were thinking about the Gilmore. I need to get there. A friend has told me to schedule two days there!

If you have a chance and are in Indiana, I highly recommend the Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg museum in small-town Auburn, IN near Fort Wayne. It's located in their old art deco showroom and engineering building, very beautiful. Behind it is the National Automobile and Truck Museum of the U.S., with some cool displays there as well.

fintail

I'd agree, a couple hours at Stude is probably OK. It isn't huge, but it has that labor of love feeling to it, and it was a fairly immaculate facility inside.

Some may recall I visited Stude in November, along with A-C-D, the adjacent National Auto and Truck Museum, Motorhome/RV Hall of Fame, Henry Ford, and Gilmore. The latter really could be a two day trip for one looking to get a good view of everything. I spent maybe 5 hours there, and I hurried. Henry Ford could also easily consume a couple days if you took the time to read everything.

berri

If your going to South Bend, IN you really aren't all that far from Grand Rapids, MI

uplanderguy

Took this pic of the Studebaker National Museum's trailer last weekend. I think the split pic of their '53 hardtop with the blueprint of it is cool.

benjaminh

berri said:

If your going to South Bend, IN you really aren't all that far from Grand Rapids, MI

The trick is that since I'm an art historian I also visit the major art museums, which makes scheduling it all in a bit tricky. My wife will probably be coming with me, and although she has some interest in cars and car museums, art is more her cup of tea. So there's some juggling needed of time, vacation budget, interests, etc. And the Toledo Museum of Art not only has art, but also has an exhibit called "Life as a Highway: Art and American Car Culture."

https://www.toledomuseum.org/

But back to Studebaker. I've just started reading the book by Thomas Bonsall called "More than They Promised: The Studebaker Story." Seems good so far. Back in the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s, a Studebaker seems like the kind of car I might have bought if I was around back then.

uplanderguy

I'd have definitely bought a '62 or later Studebaker I think. My Dad never considered one.

berri

There were a few Studebaker's in my neighborhood while growing up. But the neighborhood talk about them back then seemed mostly either they are going to go out of business or they used oil. The couple near my house were bought used. They were all just 4 doors.

uplanderguy

The Studebaker V8 was a super-sturdy engine, but they did in fact leak oil.

In my hometown, people I can remember owning the last few years of Studebakers tended to be old folks, LOL.

ab348

Aside from the going-out-of-business stigma and old folks image, Studebaker's styling back in the go-go Sixties must have really hurt them. They looked like '50s cars and couldn't match up with the more modern designs from the Big 3.

uplanderguy

Funny, I think they did the big interior/tidy exterior thing about a decade-and-a-half before it was in vogue. The packaging of the big '77 Chevy and also the '78 mid-size GM's reminded me of sixties Studebakers. Tall rooflines returned; large rear-wheel openings, etc., found favor but much later.

In early sixties GM's, for some reason especially big Pontiacs, like Star Chiefs and Bonnevilles, they are short hood/long deck styling. A '62 Star Chief, for example, looks ridiculous to me now, with the rear overhang. Similarly, I look at, say, a '64 or '65 Falcon or Chevy II and I think they seem dumpier and have more gimmicky styling, in and out, than the same year Studebaker. Some of that I'm sure is that I've been around Studebakers for thirty years now.

'62 and later Studebakers, besides Avanti, were designed by industrial designers as opposed to stylists, and I think one can tell. For me, that's a plus, plus I enjoy the different nature of them.

'63 and '64 Studebakers offered far-more horsepower than Big Three or AMC competition, disc brakes, and optional automatics that could be shifted manually through three forward gears. I think the horsepower thing was that the Big Three probably didn't want their compacts cannibalizing sales from the big cars by being available with a lot of performance.

uplanderguy

In the interest of full disclosure, the author of this article is a good friend of mine, although he also owns a very nice '72 Buick LeSabre convertible and a '73 Mustang convertible and whatever year is the final year Barracuda convertible as well as four '64 Studebakers:

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/americas-best-v-8-engine-studebaker/

uplanderguy

But you're right....all that stuff is with hindsight. In the early sixties, the public had been reading for a decade that other than '59 and '60, Studebaker was on the ropes. And I do think people then, and now, tend to be followers. And that's OK of course.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

In the interest of full disclosure, the author of this article is a good friend of mine, although he also owns a very nice '72 Buick LeSabre convertible and a '73 Mustang convertible and whatever year is the final year Barracuda convertible as well as four '64 Studebakers:

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/americas-best-v-8-engine-studebaker/

No argument from me on the Studebaker engine. Aside from the weight penalty, everything I've read about it was positive. From my years running the Olds mailing list starting in the mid-90s there was a lot of discussion there about the merits of various engines, and although that group was obviously biased, the consensus was that the SB Chevy was easily the worst of the bunch in the GM world. Its popularity was due to sheer volume, not the merits of its design, longevity or build quality.

Funny thing on the weight of Studebaker engines: 20+ years ago I took the Cutlass on what was its longest road trip, from Halifax down to Portland Maine and back. It may not have been advisable in retrospect because it only had 28,000 miles on it when I bought it, likely all of it short trips, and despite some frequent oil changes in the time I had it up to then, that extended highway driving caused it to develop a tick in the engine from some of that gunk coming loose. I changed the oil myself a day or two after getting home and for the first and only time in its history with me the oil filter had virtually no oil drain out of it when removed, it was full of gunk. But that seemed to cause no problems and did it a lot of good subsequently.

Anyway, on my way back home I decided to spend the night in Houlton, Me., up north at the end of I-95. I went out early that evening to a parts store to buy a bottle of oil supplement for the Olds, and in a parking lot across the street there was a gathering of old-car owners, so I stopped by. They enjoyed hearing my story and were very welcoming. One of the attendees had a late '20s/early '30s big Studebaker sedan, nicely restored. He opened the engine compartment to display an absolutely massive straight-8 flathead engine. It was easily the biggest, heaviest-looking engine I had ever seen up to that point. I guess that was in their corporate DNA.

berri

I enjoyed the HCC article. Honestly, didn't most cars leak oil and other fluids back then, and even much later. I think the first vehicle I owned that didn't was an 81 Mazda.

uplanderguy

Sept. '63, Notre Dame stadium, new '64 models. I'll take a Bordeaux Red convertible and a Strato Blue Gran Turismo Hawk.

uplanderguy

With the Mayor of South Bend running for president, I'd say South Bend probably hasn't been mentioned in the national news as much since Studebaker closed.

ab348

Mac's Motor City Garage posted this article last week about the Studebaker Wagonaire:

https://macsmotorcitygarage.com/secrets-of-the-studebaker-wagonaire/#more-66695

(Pulldown to add a link not working this morning, sigh...)

berri

Now you got me wanting an episode of Mr. Ed!

uplanderguy

Thanks ab348 for posting the Mac's article. I hadn't seen it.

Posting the below photo with the permission of Ken Jones. This was his grandfather's dealership in FL sometime after 1966. They continued to use the '63 Champ work truck. Studebaker allowed dealers to continue as Studebaker service and parts dealers through 1972, with some Service Bulletins even being distributed after production stopped in March 1966.
.

fintail

I see a couple of fintails.

berri

I'm assuming that dealership also carried Studebaker's because I don't think they had US MB dealers in 1925 - something about a recent war

uplanderguy

Oh yes. He has his grandmother's Bordeaux Red '64 Daytona Hardtop in very nice condition. They had Studebakers from '39.

fintail

IIRC, there were no officially sanctioned US MB dealers before WW2, although there were private importers who brought over a trickle of cars.

uplanderguy

Seen on Facebook today.

The original poster's comment was "Still getting the job done".

It's a '60.

berri

I was reading my Oct 2019 Collectible Automobile magazine and there are two Studebaker features. First, some history with their involvement in racing, but more interesting (for me at least) was a profile interview with a guy named Stuart Chapman who was in Studebaker of Canada's Advertising & PR office at the end. He provides a lot of interesting input of what was going on the last few years for the company, including some personal observations and revelations.

uplanderguy

Andy Granatelli with '62 Lark Cruiser:



Granatelli spoke at the Studebaker National Museum not real long before he died. I wished I'd have gone. He was friends with Sherwood Egbert, Studebaker's president who was ill with cancer, and he said there that he was Egbert's hand-picked successor as president and in fact his wife was looking at houses in South Bend when the shutdown announcement came. The Board picked a money man, Byers Burlingame, to replace Egbert, a product man, and the rest is history.

You can't tell in the B&W photo, but I always liked on '62 Cruisers how the "Cruiser" nameplate on the front fender was in gold.

uplanderguy

RE.: Early distributors of M-B products in the U.S. prior to the Studebaker distribution agreement:

I always remember reading the name "Max Hoffmann" as an early distributor.

RE.: Stuart Chapman in the latest 'Collectible Automobile'---I have met Stu a couple times over the years. He does have a unique perspective on those last few years in Canada. I need to pick up that magazine on the newsstand.

kyfdx

uplanderguy said:

RE.: Early distributors of M-B products in the U.S. prior to the Studebaker distribution agreement:

I always remember reading the name "Max Hoffmann" as an early distributor.

RE.: Stuart Chapman in the latest 'Collectible Automobile'---I have met Stu a couple times over the years. He does have a unique perspective on those last few years in Canada. I need to pick up that magazine on the newsstand.

Max Hoffman was also the original distributor of BMWs in the US

uplanderguy

Max Hoffman was also the original distributor of BMWs in the US

I did not know that.

I asked the fellow who provided the pic above, if there were any hard feelings in the community about selling M-B products, twenty years after the war. He said his Dad said there was some of that when they first added it in '57, but in his opinion after several years of VW Beetles being accepted for their styling and low cost, overpowering any negative feelings, that by the mid-sixties selling M-B's in FL was not a negative.

Studebaker played up their arrangement, as we've discussed here before. No one will confuse a '62 or '63 Lark four-door with a 'Benz, but the one does remind me of the other--particularly the '63 four-door. I still very much lust after that black '63 Cruiser with red broadcloth and Skytop I posted a pic here of probably a year ago. I can't afford another car and it is currently owned by a major vendor who doesn't seem to be in any hurry to get rid of it.

fintail

Hoffman was a force behind many iconic cars, including the gullwing, BMW 507, and Porsche Speedster. He was also the pioneer VW distributor, IIRC. Definitely a visionary.

fintail

Fun Stude-related document found on a fintail from BAT, paperwork for an AC unit installed when the car was a few years old. Still using the South Bend address in 1966:

uplanderguy

That's that dealer pictured! I'll have to find the car on BAT and show it to the dealer's grandson Ken...who is a Facebook friend of mine. Thank you for posting.

fintail

This is the car it is linked to on BaT

imidazol97

They were selling Studebaker radios on HSN or QVC when I was scanning channels last night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7OMjkU8qK4&feature=youtu.be

uplanderguy

I had one my wife bought, that I used to use when driving distances in my old white '63!

uplanderguy

fin, thanks for the link, but I had already found the car and posted on Ken's FB page.

Interesting about Stewart Jones Motors...I just figured it had started out a partnership of Stewart and Jones, but Ken had recently posted his grandfather's obit online and his grandfather's name was "Stewart Jones".

That's like the Stude-MB dealer in my hometown was 'Carl E. Filer Co.'. Seems like around here, anyway, dealers aren't called names like that anymore.

uplanderguy

I'd be curious if that South Bend address on the card, of Western Avenue, still exists. I was on Western Ave. a few weeks ago, driving from the museum out to the old Proving Ground. Western Avenue is Route 2. The neighborhood just west of downtown on Western is pretty sketchy now IMHO. It always is funny to me that South Bend was an automotive town, and in my lifetime. Other than the museum and a couple remaining Studebaker buildings on the near-south-side, doesn't look like one now.

fintail

I see very few dealers with a personal name anymore, as most locally have been bought up by local conglomerations or are owned by larger corporate umbrellas (like the AutoNation burgeoning oligopoly). Even 10 years ago there were many more.

My visit to South Bend last year also had it hard to believe that the town (and Auburn) were once automotive beehives.

uplanderguy

Ken's reply:


WOW, thank you for sharing. I sent the link to my Dad, as I know he will remember the original owner, Vernon Gimson. The paper trail found in the photos is amazing. The Battery Warranty Card & when the A/C was added in 1966 with the Compressor Warranty Card both document the fact that Stewart Jones Motors was the selling dealer. Those "finned" big Mercedes were wonderful vehicles. My Grandfather was a firm believer in providing excellent service. All of his "Mechanics" were factory trained. I found an old washed-out color Polaroid photo from around 1968. It shows one of those big finned Mercedes getting a "lube-job". That was the lift they used for all of their lubes, including Studebakers.

Thanks again for posting; I think it may have helped make Ken's day today!

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I'd be curious if that South Bend address on the card, of Western Avenue, still exists. I was on Western Ave. a few weeks ago, driving from the museum out to the old Proving Ground. Western Avenue is Route 2. The neighborhood just west of downtown on Western is pretty sketchy now IMHO. It always is funny to me that South Bend was an automotive town, and in my lifetime. Other than the museum and a couple remaining Studebaker buildings on the near-south-side, doesn't look like one now.

It may be this tan brick building. The caption says 2012 Western but that is across the street.

https://goo.gl/maps/8ccmN1vqML3xQPsw8

fintail

Cool stuff. A 300SE was a fairly rare car even then, and there might be some memories of it.

uplanderguy said:

Ken's reply:


WOW, thank you for sharing. I sent the link to my Dad, as I know he will remember the original owner, Vernon Gimson. The paper trail found in the photos is amazing. The Battery Warranty Card & when the A/C was added in 1966 with the Compressor Warranty Card both document the fact that Stewart Jones Motors was the selling dealer. Those "finned" big Mercedes were wonderful vehicles. My Grandfather was a firm believer in providing excellent service. All of his "Mechanics" were factory trained. I found an old washed-out color Polaroid photo from around 1968. It shows one of those big finned Mercedes getting a "lube-job". That was the lift they used for all of their lubes, including Studebakers.

Thanks again for posting; I think it may have helped make Ken's day today!

sda

fintail said:

Fun Stude-related document found on a fintail from BAT, paperwork for an AC unit installed when the car was a few years old. Still using the South Bend address in 1966:

fintail said:

Fun Stude-related document found on a fintail from BAT, paperwork for an AC unit installed when the car was a few years old. Still using the South Bend address in 1966:

Oh, that is so cool, pun intended, lol. Dad went to St Petersburg HS on the 2500 block of 5th Ave North. It has beautiful Spanish inspired architecture and is still in use today. It’s worth a look. Dad walked to school as he lived a couple of blocks away on 3rd Ave N in an area now called ‘Old Kenmore’.

uplanderguy

Cute '59 Lark Regal Hardtop and good ad IMHO. I like the styling of later Larks better, but it is clean styling for '59, even when comparing it to Rambler.

They had never made as large a profit in the 107 years prior and never would again, as in 1959.

uplanderguy

Posted on the museum's Facebook page today; last production-line Studebaker built in the U.S., '64 Daytona Hardtop. Avanti R1 power, 4-speed, disc brakes, full instrumentation including in-dash tach, 50/50 individual front bench seats, and 23 miles. Donated by Studebaker to the City of South Bend back then, and a 'ringer' was made from an unsold car in inventory to fulfill the retail order for this car, which was consigned to the dealer in Fleetwood, PA.

Only 2,414 of this body style made between the South Bend and Hamilton, Ontario plants for the '64 model year.

uplanderguy

1964 Diesel truck, 96BBC model (96" from bumper to back of cab, enabling longer trailers--the hood and front end was shortened to accomplish this, at the factory):

berri

I didn't realize Studebaker dealt in diesel's. Who made the engine?

uplanderguy

GM's 'Detroit Diesel' division. Studebaker offered it even in one tons, which nobody else did at the time.

I think it is interesting that at the very end of U.S. production, Studebaker was still building trucks like the above. They built same-size trucks with their own gasoline engines as well.

berri

Thanks. yes, Studebaker was a more diversified manufacturer than many realize.