Postwar Studebakers

ab348

Bill, just quote my post to see the format you need to use to have a picture link appear inline. It just needs to end with a .jpg (or I assume other picture file format name extension).

uplanderguy

Thanks Greg!

fintail

Nice pic looks like it could be from a period ad.

kyfdx

https://images.craigslist.org/01717_k65Nl9UmLya_600x450.jpg

uplanderguy

I'll bite! 1961 Lark Deluxe, since it has single headlights.

kyfdx

uplanderguy said:

I'll bite! 1961 Lark Deluxe, since it has single headlights.

All the ad said was "61 Stude"

uplanderguy

My least-favorite year Lark, LOL, but I do thank you for posting!

People in Stude circles often say they wish the '64 styling had come out a year earlier, but then we disagree on what year should've been eliminated, LOL. For me, it's the '61.

uplanderguy

Put my Stude away for winter today, sigh. Also changed the oil in the snowblower. Beautiful fall day today, 70 degrees, but we have stuff going on the next several weekends.

sda

uplanderguy said:

Put my Stude away for winter today, sigh. Also changed the oil in the snowblower. Beautiful fall day today, 70 degrees, but we have stuff going on the next several weekends.

Looks new under hood. I especially appreciate that the hood pad is in place and in great condition. So often these are missing or ratty.

fintail

I'll whine about some aspects of where I live, but I am thankful that old cars generally aren't put away for the winter. It might be many weeks inbetween drives while one waits for dry weather, but when the roads dry out, it is generally safe to come out and play.

Surprised to see a hood pad in a car that old, fintails don't have tem anyway.

uplanderguy

You can see where the car 'kissed' something at some point before my ownership, as the front bumper on the driver's side is pushed in a little bit.

My other Studes, similar vintages, all had the underhood pad, but I've seen beautifully-restored ones where it's left off. They're out there; why not replace it? Not my cars, not my money I guess!

Photos exaggerate of course. Up-close, it's not all that new-looking underhood, LOL.

uplanderguy

The Chevy engine installation by Studebaker required some underhood acrobatics to clear the Studebaker bellcrank. As a result, the air cleaner is Studebaker-only, but I bought three NOS elements still in the Studebaker boxes just to have them on-hand.

fin, we've discussed this before, but I always liked Studebaker's '63-66 logo; seems modern in hindsight to me, for what was really an old-line company.

fintail

I think it is a modern font too, not just one that is modern for the era but was actually more like jet-age style that looks dated now.

Maybe Loewy had a hand in it? I am guessing that Carl Filer Nash ad below is from around 1940.

uplanderguy

That's worth my digging into. Could be a Loewy thing since he had a large hand in the Avanti.

For some reason I'm thinking the Filer ad was late '30's but not sure. Someone (not a Filer) gave me that ad. I was subsequently told they weren't a Nash dealer for long. They sold Studebakers for 40 years and continued to be an Authorized Parts and Service Dealer for two years after that. Sold Packards from '41 to '50, then '55 to '58, and M-B Oct. '57 to '65. Simca starting in '64 and also sold Sunbeams in the mid-to-late sixties, although I can't say I remember seeing a single Sunbeam in our town.

uplanderguy

Someone posted this pic on Facebook. I normally think silver is very blah on an old car, but I love this particular '64 Gran Turismo Hawk. Looks like red interior. I love the smooth, plain decklid only used on '64 Hawks. 120.5 inch wheelbase, which I think is six or 6 1/2 longer than a Thunderbird, but the styling of the Hawk makes it not look that long.

fintail

Definitely doesn't look as big as a T-Bird. Funny how the 1953 A-pillar became the standard style again, weathering the wraparound fad until normalcy returned.

uplanderguy

I think simple styling and proportions age best.

Took me awhile to come to that conclusion.

For example, for years I thought the '73 Monte Carlo had a lot more "Wow!" than the '70-72.

Now, though, I don't think the '73 has aged anywhere near as well as the first generation.

Studebaker knew the Gran Turismo Hawk basic body shell was old. They often used "classic" in ad and brochure descriptions. But it's still my favorite Studebaker, period. And at the time it started at under $3 grand sticker, less than anything else remotely like it.

ab348

I always liked the '70 Monte Carlo better than even the '71/'72 despite only minor updates. I never cared for the Colonnade generation although they were far more popular.

uplanderguy

I did like the '72 cloth standard seating the best of the three years, but that's a minor thing.

I absolutely, positively, remember the first Monte Carlo I ever saw. My Dad and I, as a bonding thing, would look at the Chevy dealer on Sundays, after going out for breakfast. I saw a light blue metallic Monte, dark vinyl top, with sheets over the rear end styling and the front styling--small sheets, both--and while we were looking, someone came from inside and drove it inside. It was the first one they got in. I remember on introduction day, seeing it in the showroom. It had the body-colored-accent wheelcovers which I'm quite sure were limited to the '70.

ab348

Nice piece on the Hemmings blog today: A Brief History of Studebaker

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/09/16/a-brief-history-of-studebaker-1852-1966/

uplanderguy

Thanks for posting; hadn't seen it. Fred Fox is the go-to authenticity guy in Studebaker circles. His family had bought them new, mostly at J&B Motors in Turlock, CA.

I'm from a small town (under 10K in the sixties; not suburban), and I got to thinking how many late ('64-66) Studes I can specifically remember in town as a car-nut kid. I remember the dark blue '64 Daytona hardtop I later owned; a white '65 Commander sedan (later found out the wife worked as the bookkeeper at the local Stude garage); a gold '66 Cruiser driven by the husband of another woman who worked at the local Stude garage--and that's it.

My dream Stude collection would be a black '63 Cruiser with red broadcloth interior and Skytop (like one I posted her some months back that belongs to a former major Stude parts vendor); a '64 Gran Turismo Hawk in dark green with black vinyl half-top; a '64 Avanti in turquoise with beige interior; a '64 Daytona convertible in most any color; a '64 Champ pickup, and a '64 Transtar (bigger truck). It'll never happen though.

uplanderguy

Just saw this pic this a.m.

I'm guessing I'd have been between four and five when this pic was taken.

The Avanti has quite a bit of 'tuck under' or 'tumblehome' I think it's called, for an early sixties car.

How I'd like to have been able to walk around Studebaker in South Bend and see '63 and '64 model cars and trucks being assembled and shipped.

uplanderguy

Seen on Facebook this a.m.--supposedly the biggest back window in the industry then, although I could see it being eclipsed, maybe, by the '64 1/2 (?) Barracuda:



Magazines said it had the only true buckets in an American car, and designers say they cribbed the design from Alfa Romeo. I always thought the backs looked thin though. A late running change was the addition of a section to the backs to make them look more substantial, but I've heard they didn't change the 'feel' of the seat and really just decreased rear legroom a bit, although I think they did indeed look more substantial with that later change.

ab348

Did that section of the parcel shelf open for trunk access?

uplanderguy

Yes it did.

uplanderguy

"Better Than The Mayflower! See The New Studebaker On Nov. 22".

Anybody in Greenville, PA who can go down to 43 S. Race St. and check one out for me?!

ab348

What a great picture!

uplanderguy

Probably 25 or so years ago, my friend Ed Filer (Carl E., Jr.) called me on the phone and said "I dug out a bunch of old slides and there are some of the garage in there. They're not that great but if you want to see them, let me know and come on down". At that time he lived about 2 hrs. 20 mins. from me. I went, and the pics blew my mind. The color was quite fresh on most of them. He let me make copies of maybe ten or so I liked which I much-appreciated. I miss Ed; he was a good friend the last 30 or so years. He passed last year at age 89.

ab348

Kodachrome slides are famous for retaining their depth and purity of color for decades. Sadly, about half the slides I shot during the '70s and '80s were not Kodachrome (because I wanted faster film) and those have color-shifted quite dramatically now. Very hard to fix post-scan.

uplanderguy

The front and rear cover photos of John Hull's new book on the 'Avanti Airlift' presentation to dealers, were taken by Ed Filer. I forwarded the photos for John to use in the book and I was surprised to see them make the covers.

uplanderguy

Taken at the Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals this past weekend near Chicago. I wasn't there, but this supercharged Blue Mist '63 Lark Regal two-door sedan is the car (original body, frame, and engine) that was raced by Ray Tanner Motors in Phoenix back in the day and was called "The Whistler". It was also known around there as the "Tempest Eater" for spanking 326 Tempests. The car languished in the collection of an Arizona collector for decades and just recently was fully restored and got its lettering at the show this past weekend--based on old photos of the car!

The '64 styling gets much of the love in Studebaker circles but I like the '63 too, with the round taillights--the '64 lost the Mercedes bends here and there and I do know people who say the '64 "doesn't look like a Studebaker any more".

fintail

Pic from a car spotting thread on another forum:



In other Stude news, the old dealership building down the street from me, used by a locksmith company for the past ~40 years, is now vacant and I suspect not long for this world.

uplanderguy

I have a friend who has a '61 Lark VIII Regal wagon that looks very close to this one, in OH too, although his has red interior.

The '61 had improvements/revisions to steering and brakes, and the six was OHV for the first time that year, but I just don't like the styling. I like the '59 and '60 better. The way they moved the side trim above the feature line apparently didn't sit well with a lot of people, as for the '62 facelift, it was moved back down to the feature line, where it belongs, LOL.

That same friend also has a '61 Lark VIII Regal convertible. Both the 'vert and wagon are Ermine White.

The wagon he bought in CA maybe 20 years ago, from the ex-wife of an Indianapolis Stude dealer. The paperwork from the Stude Museum archives shows it was billed to the dealer in Indianapolis but shipped to a dealer in Alhambra, CA, where the ex-wife lived.

bhill2

OK, I'm slightly out of my wheelhouse, but AFAIK if it is a six, it isn't a VIII and vice versa.

uplanderguy

Yes; from '59 to '61, sixes had "Lark VI" nameplates on them, and eights, "Lark VIII". That disappeared for '62.

ab348

@uplanderguy , FYI:

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/comment/5814603/#Comment_5814603

uplanderguy

Thanks ab348; I posted over there!

sda

We drove to the suburbs of Detroit over Thanksgiving weekend, about 700 miles each way, to visit a dear friend of my daughter. While we were there, on Friday my wife and I visited The Henry Ford museum, had great burgers at The Ford Garage, drove Woodward Ave to downtown and marveled at the GM Renaissance Center. Saturday we had about two hours to fill before we were to pick up my daughter and start our drive home. While looking for things to do my wife discovered that the Packard Proving Grounds museum was about 20 minutes away. She called and found they were not open as they were preparing for an event later that day, but was offered that if we could be there in 30 minutes they would give us a personal tour. It was great, much history, cars, and the tour of the primary engineer’s house was icing on the cake. The tour guide is in the green coat. She was very personable and provided a great experience.

ab348

Wow, I had no idea that was there. Nice of them to accommodate you. What is the story on that big Diesel engine? Tank power?

uplanderguy

Thanks for posting your pics! I had heard the Proving Grounds was there; I didn't know there were cars there to look at. I'm thinking the track itself is gone, but I'm not sure. I seem to remember seeing an overhead shot maybe a decade ago that showed a housing development, but from overheard you could sorta, kinda, see where the oval had been.

sda

The Diesel engines powered PT boats. What used to be 500+ acres is now about 15 acres. Ford bought the property after Packard failed. Ford had a factory behind the Packard property and used the oval track for emissions testing. Later the intent was to bull doze everything and build residential. Luckily Packard faithful stepped in and Ford agreed to give them the buildings and some acreage, and somehow the Packard group acquired some additional land. The oval track is gone, neighborhoods surround the property. It is a must see if you have the opportunity.

sda

The Packard Proving Grounds tour was a high point of my visit to MI. I’m sure the reason it was is what I’ve learned about Studebaker/Packard/Mercedes Benz in this forum the past two years or so.

fintail

I had no idea that Packard facility existed. I might have tried to visit when I was in MI about a year ago.

uplanderguy

I've posted pics of the Stude Proving Ground (no 's' at the end), which was/is 800 acres with a three-mile oval (Packard's was 2 1/2; probably due to Packard's being in greater Detroit and Stude's being out in rural Indiana). The clubhouse is still there; the engineering buildings are still there, and the track is still there. I've run my Stude on it a couple times which was great fun and big of Navistar (current owner) to allow. The buildings all had a big "S" in the capstone; those were covered over if visible from Route 2 but once you got inside, the other buildings all still have their "S" which to me is cool. And the trees still spell out "STUDEBAKER" from the air, although they are no longer trimmed back of course.

uplanderguy

I think this is my favorite Studebaker magazine ad. I'll take the green Hawk.

uplanderguy

Flattered, as the "Compact Classics" FB page I'm a member of, used this pic of my old '63 as the page photo effective today. I don't remember ever sending them that pic but I must have.

I do miss this car. Owned it 23 years.

Bought it in '88; advertised in the Studebaker Drivers' Club "Turning Wheels" magazine for sale for $2,600. That was probably a grand too much (!), but had it restored as a driver by Westmoreland Studebaker in Blairsville, PA, good folks and friends. Sold it in 2011 as first college expenses were coming around.

uplanderguy

One quick story.

Probably fifteen years ago, I was driving on the Ohio Turnpike in it, approaching Indiana, when I felt a car hanging in the left lane near me.

I looked over to see a girl in a T-top Firebird, smiling at me, hair blowing in the wind.

For a brief moment, I felt like Chevy Chase in "Vacation".

fintail

That car is so European with the Skytop.

uplanderguy

The four-door '62 and '63's especially are.

I'm so used to Studebakers I guess, for size, that I looked at a gorgeous maroon '62 Bonneville convertible with 8-lug wheels and 4-speed and leather buckets and console this morning on a FB page, but the rear overhang on those just absolutely slaps me in the face. I am completely convinced that I couldn't back out my driveway in one without scraping. It's short hood, looonnnng deck, LOL! Still, beautifully styled otherwise and wonderful interior.

fintail

As you called it, the "Mercedes Bends". I am surprised those didn't sell more in Europe, but I suspect engine displacement made it impossible.

The front and rear overhangs of some 70s Lincolns come to mind as being excessive, and fuselage coupes as well, although that might be more of the trunk and hood being the same (long) length. I recall seeing some very detailed interiors in early 60s Pontiacs.