Postwar Studebakers

uplanderguy

Here's a '63 Lark Custom four-door sedan with Skytop; old pic. Blue Mist with red interior! The optional Aero-Strut wheelcovers (not a fan, LOL); six-cylinder with 3-speed and overdrive. It's now painted red and has the optional, regular full wheel covers.

ab348

You used to see the occasional blue/red combo in certain makes back then, but I never understood why people thought it looked good.

Back in 1979 I had an interview for a job at what was then GM Canada's regional office about 150 miles from here for an entry-level job after I got out of university. It involved working with dealers to (a) get them to take cars off GM's hands and (b) validating dealer orders to, as the interviewer told me, "make sure that they don't order a blue car with a red interior". Glad I didn't get that job.

uplanderguy

I have a friend whose parents owned a bar in Cleveland and they lived above it. They did well and were quite nearby the long-standing Central Cadillac dealership downtown and employees were customers of theirs. They bought many Cadillacs at Central. Their 1976 Seville was dark blue with white vinyl top and red leather inside. Central was calling it "Bicentennial Edition" although my guess is that was their idea as opposed to Cadillac's. I didn't know them then but my friend said his Mom was telling him about it and my friend was horrified...until he saw it. Said it looked sharp!

His Dad would've been in his sixties by then and friends were supposedly suggesting he buy one of the last new 'big' Cadillacs, but the Dad said "This car (Seville) is the wave of the future" and bought it. He was right-on in that regard.

My friend has told me that when you dropped your Caddy into Central for service and needed a ride home or to your job, they would take you there in a Fleetwood Seventy-Five. Being from a Chevy family, I can't imagine that!

fintail

Blue on red doesn't offend me, somehow. I am certain I have seen at least 2 fintails in that combo - there might have been a time in the early 60s when it worked. That 63 definitely has the Euro influence too, and those odd wheelcovers look like the "spinner" type seen on late 50s style custom cars.

Fleetwood 75 courtesy shuttle sounds very cool.

sda

A friend's dad ordered a 79 Riviera in medium metallic blue with red interior. It actually looked nice, though I would have prefeered a dark blue interior. He ordered the Bose upgrade, better suspension, V8 and steel top, no half vinyl. He had it less than a year and someone rear ended it and it was totaled.

uplanderguy

Apparently the same silver '64 Gran Turismo Hawk I posted earlier but from a different angle.

Never thought I'd say I'm lusting for a silver Studebaker, but I am this one.

fintail

From another forum, spotted in small town Saskatchewan:

bhill2

uplanderguy said:

Apparently the same silver '64 Gran Turismo Hawk I posted earlier but from a different angle.

Never thought I'd say I'm lusting for a silver Studebaker, but I am this one.

Me like; a lot!

uplanderguy

Nice angle of the car...unlike that brown ("Autumn Haze") '61 Lark fin posted!

For such a low-volume model year (less than '59, '60, '62, and '63), there apparently are a lot of pics of '61's floating out there on the 'net!

As I've mentioned before, I love '64 Gran Turismo Hawks. I like the bodyside-outlined-in-chrome look like concurrent Continentals had. I know vinyl tops are bad on an old car, but it sure adds to the Hawk's "dapper" looks. Somewhere I read that term used to describe the last Hawks and I'd have to agree. And they were very reasonably-priced compared to other specialty coupes in that era.

I think, besides that I remember them, one thing I like about most Studebakers is that they don't look 'heavy'.

Growing up, I liked '63 Thunderbirds, but in hindsight it seems IMHO that they went to a lot of effort to make it look like a bird. The '64 was a total redesign but it doesn't do much for me one way or the other.

ab348

The silver Hawk looks great. From back in the era when silver was a rather uncommon paint choice. Some years, manufacturers didn't even offer silver as a color choice. Imagine that today.

uplanderguy

Studebaker's 1964 "Moonlight Silver" seemed to get a light brownish tint as it aged. I'll assume that Hawk is a fairly fresh repaint. With the red interior and black top, I think it's striking. So many later Hawks are white, black, or red.

fintail

A cigar T-Bird definitely looks heavier than that Hawk, same for the 64+ model. Not sure how much bigger they are, but they look 1000 lbs heavier.

I know I have mentioned it before, the 1953 A-pillar on those late Hawks always catches my eye, but it works - by not jumping on the wraparound fad, Stude eventually didn't have to waste those tooling costs anyway.

uplanderguy

I have only ever seen one magazine review of a 1964 Hawk. In it, the reviewer said something generally like "it's the oldest basic body shell in the industry, but such is the (beauty or intelligence) of the '53 design, as the Hawk is a handsome automobile".

I grew up Chevy, but I'm having a hard time thinking what 1953 Big Three passenger car could have been updated to still look somewhat relevant, even, for '64.

Over the years, the scallop was removed from the front door, and I'd heard that there were really only a handful of part nos. that were identical from '53 to '64. I'd guess that the four fenders would be among them.

The vent door in the fenders is an obvious throwback, but people don't complain about that on a two-seat Thunderbird (I know, that's several years earlier, LOL). Inside, the pedals still come through the floor, although Larks and even Champ pickups had suspended pedals by that time. That said, I still want a '64 Hawk, and pretty bad.

As I always say, and I know I always say it, the availability of disc brakes and an automatic that could be held in second gear (PRND21) were a couple things no Chevy at any price had in the '64 model year.

uplanderguy

Speaking of the windshield, fin...thankfully, the coupes and Hawks never got a wraparound windshield, but the two-and-four-door sedans, and wagons, did. They did this mid-way through the '55 model year, which was a strange way to do it. But Studebaker did a lot of things unusually, LOL.

fintail

And to be fair, it was more of a Chrysler-ish partial wraparound, rather than something big like GM and Ford. That style didn't last too long, and those yearly retooling costs must have been insane. Stude having a smaller budget actually helped it age better in the long run.

Bringing up those 1953 models, Stude aged better than most of them, especially some GM cars. The 53-54 Chevy in particular has always seemed really frumpy to me.

uplanderguy

That's right...the big wraparound windshields, like Ford, GM, Nash, and Packard had, resulted in almost-identical vent window shapes. Stude's was indeed more like Chrysler's.

I've always heard the '49-54 Chevys were sturdy cars, and I don't mind the '49-52 styling (despite their thumb-sized taillights!), but I never liked the '53 or 54 either. Especially didn't like the '53's frontal styling...the '54 cleaned it up a bit IMHO.

Studes used that wraparound windshield through '62 on Larks (by then). The '63 was redesigned with a flatter windshield, costing a lot of money, but to average eyes there was very little difference. I have read that it cost more to make a '63 out of a '62, then a '64 out of the '63. They got a lot more new-look 'bang for the buck' in the '64, although as I always say, a four-door '63 is my favorite four-door Studebaker.

fintail

My dad, usually a Ford guy, also had a thing for 49-54 Chevys. I recall he said the engines were very tough, and IIRC his first car was a 50 Chevy, so that might be part of it. He really liked the 49-50 fastbacks and 53-54 hardtops/convertibles. I'm mostly indifferent to them, and I have to once again joke that those who bought a new 54 must have been irritated when the giant leap 55 models debuted.

I like the term "Mercedes Bends" you use for those 63s. Another one with a very continental (not Lincoln) look.

uplanderguy

I stole the "Mercedes Bends" term from the song "Hotel California". I think I saw that they spelled the lyrics that way. Who knows why?

Speaking of that Hawk with the vinyl top, the largest Stude parts supplier, now in Hope, IN (no factory stash of parts in South Bend any more, sadly), just posted this:


Studebaker International
2 hrs ·
We just came across some black vinyl landau tops for the GT Hawks and they’re in really good shape !
Give us a call or shoot us an email if you need one.

Pretty amazing, what was left over when production at South Bend stopped.

fintail

Never liked that song I didn't know that about the lyrics. Any Stude lyrics out there? Other than the still-remarkable "We Didn't Start The Fire".

Would those be NOS tops? That's another Stude-MB similarity, parts supplies, I can still order a lot of material for the fintail, especially mechanical parts, direct from the dealer (for a price).

imidazol97

Saw an interesting old Corvette ad.
Right click on the picture and it opens in a new window with much larger image size.

'62 Vette $1795.

omarman

I think Tiffany twisted and Mercedes bends were references to a girl obsessed with status symbols.

That's a great ad for the '67 Stingray" at Corvette Village in "Stingraytown" but I think the Corvette was still Sting Ray for 1967.

fintail

67 427/390 Vette, worthless today!

Om the old ad note, just yesterday I looked at a February 1960 issue of the British weekly "The Autocar". It has a classified section, which is fascinating. Lightweight chassis gullwing for 2500 GBP? Yes, please:



Surprising presence of American metal too. This dealer had some RHD cars, lots of American machines in the general classifieds area too:

uplanderguy

I'll take that '62 Corvette convertible; will always be my favorite model-year 'Vette. Tod and Buzz, here I come!

fin, that vinyl top material would be NOS. Studebaker only put them on the '64 Gran Turismo Hawk, of which 1,767 were built in total and most were built without a vinyl top.

There's still NOS sheetmetal available for Larks, reasonably-priced, although not as reasonable as 25 years ago when I bought for my '63. I bought NOS upholstery material for my '63 back then in South Bend, but the stock has since been sold to another interior-only vendor.

imidazol97

From an area car show. This was worth the trip even though the car turnout was weak at that show with the white Vette.

I don't know if it's a 62, but this shape Corvette gives me the Route 66 tingle from my youth.

uplanderguy

Those are either '65 or '66's....there's a way to tell from the "Corvette" script on the rear, and I'm sure another way or two, but I can't remember what they are.

uplanderguy

fin has said before that in Avantis he prefers round headlights. I think I agree, but just looking at a pic online of a late '64 with the 'thick seats', I think I'd have to buy a '64 despite liking the round lights better. I like the thick seats, montone-color interior, and "Pirate's Buckle" 'S' upper door panel emblems enough to offset the square light enclosures. Jury's out on the woodgrain dash and wheel.

fintail

Early Avantis had a white/light colored dash and steering wheel? I think I prefer that, especially with a light blue/teal interior.

A couple more car ads, these from Spokane, December 13, 1968 (you'll need to right click and view), a little something for everyone. Interesting material in what was approaching the zenith of the American middle/working class, and also maybe the most tumultuous year of the 20th century for the US:

uplanderguy

Sorry I can't find a pic of a '63 Avanti with red interior to post. But...here's the 'Tangerine' interior! Wow. This didn't make it through the end of the '63 run. The complete instrument panel and wheel and column, and top of the door panels, were always beige, and the seats were the other color.

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/5918-1963-studebaker-avanti-r2-coupe/

fintail

I like the light colored dash and steering wheel. That's something on the fintail's to-do list, finally have the steering wheel refinished. It's a white wheel, but has a leather cover, which might be as old as the car. Under the cover the wheel is yellowed with fine cracks.

Here's a nice interior:

uplanderguy

On that pic, the upper door panels should be the off-white.

I can't get past the thin-looking seat backs.

When I get something in my mind, I obsess on it.

Similarly, I can't stand '61 Chevys, which I otherwise like a lot, with a pushbutton radio because the buttons spell out "CHEVY". It's a Chevrolet, not a 'Chevy Van', LOL. I'd have to find one with no radio or the straight-line tuning radio!

The turquoise seats do look nice in that color, in that car.

My wife, a teacher, says that although they didn't call it this back then, I'm probably 'on the spectrum', LOL.

fintail

For the details, you're just an expert, it's part of the job. Like when I get irked if a MB has incorrect wheels/badge placement (I know that bugs you on Studes as well), aftermarket parts, weird paint, etc.

I don't mind the thin seats, maybe leaning more towards sport than lux, I wonder if they feel any different with a butt in the seat

imidazol97

I like reading when someone points out what is wrong with classic cars.

I recall I was impressed with a Chrysler of the 70s or 80s that I saw at a show in Fairfield OH. But
someone looked at the picture posted here on Edmunds and pointed out the wheel covers were from a Plymouth.

sda

Overall I prefer cars in original form and am a stickler for detail. I appreciate the knowledge shared with these groups.

fintail

I'm the same way, I like original cars. When I was younger, I was even irritated when old cars were cut down into customs/hot rods. Now I can deal with common cars being cut up, but ruin a prewar senior Packard or something, and I will still be annoyed.

Speaking of original, I am also very pleased about the recent trend for unrestored cars, even if they have "patina".

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

Sorry I can't find a pic of a '63 Avanti with red interior to post. But...here's the 'Tangerine' interior! Wow. This didn't make it through the end of the '63 run. The complete instrument panel and wheel and column, and top of the door panels, were always beige, and the seats were the other color.

Here's a red one, with an interesting story. And one owned by a star. The reds are different...



https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/lost-and-found-1963-studebaker-avanti-r2/

And one owned by Dick vanDyke.

https://mycarquest.com/2014/02/studebaker-avanti-for-sale-once-owned-by-dick-van-[non-permissible content removed].html

uplanderguy

In that first link, the car actually has the Tangerine interior; the photo reproduced differently for whatever reason. I'm all for 'different', but that Tangerine is too much for me! LOL

This was pointed out here long ago, but for the low production numbers (4,643 combined for '63 and '64 model years), a fair amount of Avantis were sold to celebs. Dick Van [non-permissible content removed], Ricky Nelson, and Ian Fleming come to mind.

uplanderguy

Sheesh, here we go again. "Rob Petrie" must be used instead of Dick Van [non-permissible content removed], LOL.

uplanderguy

I love original, and correctly restored, cars and trucks.

Like fin, I CAN'T STAND when nameplates, emblems, stripes, etc. are installed incorrectly, particularly in a high-end restoration. Look at the freaking brochure photos, and measure where you removed emblems and nameplates!

A friend who knows how I am about that stuff, and he is as well, sent me a recent ad/pic from I think Hemmings, of a '69 Chevelle SS396 recent restoration. The factory stripes down the side look like they're riding a wave. Ridiculous!

On the other hand, I have a couple buddies who roll their eyes at me about that stuff.

I say "It's easy to do right the first time; much-harder to correct. And people can and do notice".

imidazol97

I'd like to see that tangerine in person.

ab348

There is a full-page ad running right now in the old-car magazines for one of the resto parts houses. It pictures a '70 4-4-2 having 1968-style vertical front fender stripes. I guess it is someone's idea of a resto-mod, but that picture drives me nuts.

fintail

I can't count the amount of old MBs I have seen with rear badges in the wrong location. Two-toning that never existed is another one I see now and then that makes me twitch. Another thing is modern stereo head units in old cars - yeah, that 'suddenly it's 2002' bedazzled CD player looks great in your 1963 whatever.

uplanderguy

Letter sent to South Bend employees on 12/16/63. 7,000 employees laid off.

I'm very-much reminded of Lordstown...in a time of prosperity, the public just wasn't interested.

Far too-much unused capacity for sales of the products.

uplanderguy

I've seen an original of the above letter. It was typewriter-like font; looks like this was re-done on a modern computer, on the original-style stationery, as I also see a typo or two in the above.

But those are all Byers Burlingame's words.

Studebaker had been in South Bend for 111 years at this point.

Engine production stayed in South Bend through the end of the '64 model year. Trucks, Hawks, and Avantis were discontinued as of Dec. '63.

Corporate HQ stayed in South Bend, as did the big parts warehouse at "Plant 8".

uplanderguy

Here's a Hemmings article from five years ago about the last Studebaker Avanti, an R3. The comments below are good reading to my eyes. I had met Joe Erdelac, the AMC dealer who owned the car for a long time, at one of our Ohio Region Studebaker Drivers' Club meetings, when he was well up in years. Nice fellow. The Studebaker employee who left the note in the trunk of the Avanti before it left South Bend--his son comments below the article too--named "Bennett".

The R3 engine is very collectible, but I don't like how Avantis lost their rake/wedge shape in profile when the R3 engine was installed--similar to what happened when Avanti II put Chevy engines in them, and reduced the radius of the front wheel openings.

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2014/10/02/last-studebaker-built-avanti-to-go-on-national-historic-vehicle-register/?fbclid=IwAR0Nng6Rs65CdgUXjQSyqgCQo-WOda-cCGzIGsEatf99plnqp-5t_d6yF8Q

uplanderguy

Stepping into the fifties for a change. Posted by the Studebaker National Museum today; '56 Golden Hawk ascending a hill at the Studebaker Proving Ground.

imidazol97

Love it. I remember seeing Studebakers in those forward-looking two tone colors.

uplanderguy

From a Facebook page this morning. Obviously, the '63 Galaxie is the center of the photo, but not often have I seen Wagonaires in photos from back then. I believe that is a '64 or '65 in Bermuda Brown, as there was no similar '63 color. I believe that is a '64 Fairlane wagon in the pic too.

I can't for the life of me figure what is on the roof rack of the Wagonaire.

ab348

Given the era and the setting, I'd guess it is a tent and associated necessities for camping, covered with a tarp to try to keep it dry. Expanding the pic as much as I can, the roof rack is a wooden slat-side box.

uplanderguy

UPI had a fleet of white '63 Lark Daytona Wagonaires, seen here.

fintail

The Corgi toy version could be had as a camera car as well:



Matchbox also had a Wagonaire, as I know you are aware.