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Postwar Studebakers

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Comments

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Pretty cool IMHO. Can be built as a '63 or '64. Just in time for the International Studebaker Drivers' Club meet in South Bend next week! I'm there! I bet the Studebaker Museum will have 'em in their gift shop!

    http://www.round2models.com/models/amt/63studebaker-avanti/amt780-02
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  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I recall seeing an Avanti model made by AMT in the mid 1970s under the "Modern Classics" series. They also had the 1953 Studebaker coupe in this series.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Yeah, for Studebaker to have been the #5 U.S. automaker at the time of South Bend closing, it's cool that AMT did models of two of their cars after the company was gone. Of course, the '53 and the Avanti are two of the highest-regarded Studes by baby boomers I believe.
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  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    I recall seeing an Avanti model made by AMT in the mid 1970s under the "Modern Classics" series. They also had the 1953 Studebaker coupe in this series.

    This is the third time for the Avanti and the second time for the 1953. I have earlier AMT versions. The Studebakers with no grilles on the front sell better as models years later than did when they were new because Americans not were ready for cars that looked like those.

    I can now get here without going through Google Chrome. Thanks to somebody for fixing that.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited August 2012
    Just got back today from South Bend, and the 48th International Studebaker Drivers' Club meet. What a wonderful time! My '66 drove great although it was hot as hell both going out and coming home. They had a seminar with former designers and employees and one was Virgil Exner, Jr. Interesting guy. Tour of Studebaker International, parts vendor, who operate in the old Studebaker Aviation WWII plant--the building is one million square feet (not all utilized now, of course!). And there were 562 Studes in the Concours yesterday, from 1800's wagons to Avanti II and everything in-between.

    My favorites? The oddball stuff...light green '64 Daytona Hardtop, R1 with Powershift automatic, green buckets, original owner. Also, a black '64 Gran Turismo Hawk, black, red buckets, R2 (supercharger) with 4-speed. Absolutely delicious! Also a light green '64 Gran Turismo Hawk with floorshift automatic (Powershift), not R-powered, but just lovely. There was the nicest '38 President Sedan at our hotel all week, and the owner was a morning person like me so we often spoke. Nice guy.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    There are three videos, but even the shortest one, video part #3, at four minutes, gives a good overview of the variety and number of vehicles in town last week.

    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?63993-VIDEO-Studebakers-On- -Parade-%283-parts%29
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    ...taken by an acquaintance from Alberta, Canada...page down quite a bit.

    My white with red interior '63 Daytona Skytop, Avanti Powered, was flashier, but for a non-mechanic like me, this '66 is probably better for me in the long run. It's quite rare (under 1,000 of this model made) and I'll proudly park it next to a Chevy II or Falcon or Valiant or Rambler two-door sedan of 1966.

    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?64020-What-a-great-time!
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Sharp rare car. I agree it competes strongly with that segment and year. I've never liked the Falcons of 66-68, 66 Chevy II sedan is nothing to look at, Valiant was boring. The angular details of the Stude set it off.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Thank you. You're just sayin' that 'cause M-B was sold at a fair number of Stude dealers ;).

    The '66-67 Chevy II's are my least-favorite Chevy II's. The Falcon I sorta like. In two-door sedans, the Darts and Valiants are OK I think, and the Ramblers are a complete 'block'--blunt at front and rear. I'll concede some general similarities between the '64-66 Studes and '63-64 Rambler Classics, which I think are some of the best-looking Ramblers.

    I like Stude's wide-open rear wheel openings, which 'lighten' the car visually IMHO.
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  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    That was great. I love a parade, especially a Studebaker parade in South Bend. It is amazing to see all the types and models of vehicles that evolved from the 1953 coupes and sedans. I see some vehicles that were there from the 1968-72 era when I lived in Chicago and the meet was held in South Bend every year.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Stude did seem to be making something of an effort right up until the end. That deserves some credit. A lot more effort than say, GM, was making not even a decade ago.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    The '63 and '64 models are my favorites. Sunroofs, superchargers, disc brakes, automatics that could be shifted manually through three forward gears, full line of trucks up to big diesels, Hawk, Avanti, sliding roof wagons, full instrumentation standard, inside hood release, 50/50 seats available, etc. Compared to what AMC offered at the time, as a comparison, pretty neat I think.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Even in '66, with Studebaker you could still get disc brakes, but all the cars had flow-through ventilation (hence the vents above the taillights in the pic of my car in the thread above), and transistorized ignition was standard on my model of Daytona and optional on all others. Still had full gauges standard too.
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  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Just think what Studebaker could've become if they had survived. Could this have been the 1967 Studebaker?

    image
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    1960 Olds front.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited August 2012
    I saw that very car just last week in the Studebaker National Museum. It's a Brooks Stevens prototype. It's very "Big Three" I think, and it's got a Sylvania light bar up front and dark tinted glass "C" pillars. It's called the "Sceptre". Sadly, no money to do it.

    They were the kings of making the most out of what they had, for sure. I love the '64 Gran Turismo Hawk, which started life as the '53 Starliner. But I'm not aware of many cars that could have started life in '53 and ended up a '64, albeit with a lot of revisions, and that '64 edition got Milestone status ten years later.
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  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    edited August 2012
    I believe I posted this image before, but it fits the discussion. I took it at the museum in South Bend at the 2002 Studebaker meet.
    image

    The last cars designed by Brooks Stevens were very nice. The front and rear doors for the white station wagon were interchangeable, to save tooling costs, a trick used on the four-door "Coffin Nose" Cord 810.

    I think that Studebaker would have gone out of business before 1980 even if it survived the 1960s because of increasing government safety and emissions requirements. Both American Motors and Chrysler were healthy in late 1963 when Studebaker quit U.S. production, but they were in trouble at the end of the 1970s. Here is a major part of the reason why.

    The 1970s were tumultuous for Chrysler. U.S. anti-trust laws prohibited U.S. automakers from forming Japanese- or European-style industry consortiums which helped their foreign competitors to save costs on regulatory regimes of car safety and emissions. No cost-sharing was possible; each company had to solve each problem on its own, and Chrysler's lower sales volumes meant these new development and implementation costs made up a larger proportion of a vehicle's cost compared to Ford and General Motors. To avoid pricing themselves out of the market, they had to retrofit and detune their existing engines to meet emission requirements, which resulted in lower fuel economy when fuel prices were rising. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chrysler
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    There must have been some pride in the organization, even when the writing was on the wall. Someone was trying to keep up a good image even when things didn't look too hot.
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    edited August 2012
    . . .transistorized ignition was standard on my model of Daytona and optional on all others

    I thought that all V-8 engines had transistorized ignition but the six cylinder models did not because GM Delco did not make it available for six cylinder engines at that time. Studebaker confused the issue by putting ther Daytona badge on too many different models after the 1964 model year. Prior to that I believe that Daytonas always had V-8 engines except for export models.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    There were six and V8 Daytonas in '66, but only the V8 had the transistorized ignition standard. It was optional on other model V8's.

    BTW, you missed a wonderful meet at South Bend...truly wonderful.

    But sheesh, was it hot!
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  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    This is a very cool video of the streets of Los Angeles in 1957.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LpPKAhW9-s&feature=youtu.be

    I believe you can see the Frost & French Studebaker dealership at 2 minutes 10 seconds, look for the red Studebaker ball on the right.

    I did not see my Commander, but I did see seven Studebakers and two Henry J's. A blue Thunderbird cut in front of the camera car and nearly caused an accident. No foreign cars except a Nash Metropolitian. I consider myself so fortunate to have been a 5 year old kid in the USA at that time. Many kids today don't even know what a Chevy is.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Cool video! Lots of Caddys and convertibles.

    There's a Porsche 356 in the oncoming lane around 1:25.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Thanks for posting, very, very cool! I love to see old films in color. It's almost as if life itself was black-and-white then!
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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    And I didn't notice any Continental kits or wire wheels...go figger...
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    There's a Porsche 356 in the oncoming lane around 1:25.

    I have watched the video several times, and I do see a few foreign-built cars. One is a Simca built in France for Chrysler. I also see an English Hillmon. However, foreign built cars are very rare, and it is interesting to see that in the 1950's all the foreign cars were outnumbered by Kaisers (full size and Henry J) and Studebakers.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    JL, I shared this video over on the Studebaker Drivers' Club forum, crediting this forum, and it was a hit there. Thanks for posting it!
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  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    Hi Uplander guy. I was going to post it there too, but you beat me to it fair and square. I will be looking for a positive ID on the Studebaker dealer across from the Pontiac dealership. I see a Packard in the video, but only one.

    If anyone wants to see a lot of Packards, rent the first Superman TV series with Phyllis Coates as Lois Lane. Later the series featured Nash cars including police cars (Lois had a neat Nash Rambler roll-top convertible) and then Plymouth and Chrysler products in the final season that was in color.

    Which show was it where Jimmy Olson went over a cliff and was saved by Superman after the brakes on his Studebaker went out? (Someone cut the brake lines so that would happen), I forgot which one that one was.

    Mask with Jim Carey is my favorite Studebaker movie followed by the first Muppet Movie.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Weren't those old British Hillman's associsted with Chrysler somehow like Simca was - I'm thinking maybe Plymouth?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    The Plymouth Cricket was a Hillman Avenger. Not Chrysler's best idea...
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    edited August 2012
    Hillman was an English car that became part of Chrysler in 1967. I spelled the name wrong in my post. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillman This images shown a lot of Studebaker influence in the design, especially the back window.
    imageChrysler did much the same with the Simca a little later, which was French but also related to Fiat. Now Fiat owns Chrysler. That was then, this is now.

    In 1958-60 our next door neighbor had a 1958 Ford Thunderbird. I was very impressed with the look of that car especially the bucket seats. His wife decided to drive, so she got a Hillman. I remember thinking that it looked like a little Studebaker. When those neighbors moved away
    about 1963, the new family had a Simca. Those are the earliest foreign cars remember in the neighborhood.
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    Here is a neat video of Los Angeles area in 1954.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n77NxU0CHPw&feature=related

    Included are images of the Ford assembly plant on Terminal Island in Long Beach. At that time, there were nine automobile assembly plants in the greater Los Angeles area. http://www.laalmanac.com/transport/tr05.htm My own Studebaker Commander was assembled in the City of Vernon.

    All are gone now. The last to close were the GM plant in South Gate in 1982 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Gate_Assembly and the GM Camaro-Firebird Plant in Van Nuys, which closed in 1992. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Nuys_Assembly.

    Here is a good LA Times article about the once booming Los Angeles auto industry. http://search.aol.com/aol/search?query=image+of+Studebaker+plant+City+of+Vernon&- s_it=key
    word_rollover

    These days LA's illustrious Mayor, Antonio Villaraigosa thinks that it is a big deal to employ 30 workers to assemble 1,000 Chinese electric trucks a year.
    Http://ourweekly.com/los-angeles/new-electric-truck-manufacturer-comes-southland- . Big deal. The Vernon Studebaker plant alone used to assemble 6-000-12,000 cars a year. It shows what a sorry state Los Angeles is in.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    I was pretty surprised at the selling price of this '64 Daytona convertible (a favorite model of mine), but which is an R-1 "clone" (R-1 being a non-supercharged Avanti engine)--$35K:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964-Studebaker-Daytona-convertible-/160864179449- ?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item25744094f9
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  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    I would love to have that car, probably more than any other Studebaker, but I think it is priced $10,000+ too high. Let's see if it sells at that price.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    It did sell at that price.
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  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    edited September 2012
    I am very surprised at the sales price and wish there was more information on this history of the vehicle. I never heard of a car that has only 490 miles and a completely rebuilt engine. That is one huge battery under the hood. Maybe the car is a hybrid. ;)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited September 2012
    My friend Mary Anne who recently bought a '64 gold Avanti built on the last day of Studebaker Avanti production (12/26/63), wrote the Studebaker Museum for paperwork on the car and saw it was shipped to Snuffy Smith Motors in Dallas (isn't that a great name?!). The car has only had three owners per the title, and the first owner was named B.J. Smith who purchased the car in April '65. No retail sales paperwork was available at the museum, but a little sleuthing by me pretty easily turned up Snuffy Smith's daughter and she reported that the car was purchased by her father (B.J. Smith= "Snuffy") for her as a gift when she was 16, and she was delighted to hear from Mary Anne and included a couple old color pics of the car back to Mary Anne...one with nice-looking aftermarket mag wheels. Small world. The car was sold in '68. Apparently the car was unsold at the dealership from Jan. '64 to April '65 when it was gifted to Mr. Smith's daughter.

    It is now a beautiful, low-mileage example with factory air and power windows and Powershift automatic on the floor (P-R-N-D-2-1). Many running changes were made in Studebaker's 20-month Avanti production, and Mary Anne's would have all of them, being built the last day. The final Studebaker Avanti, a white R3 and only nine serial numbers after Mary Anne's, resides in the Crawford Museum in Cleveland and was on loan/display for the International Studebaker Drivers' Club meet in South Bend last month.

    Happy news all-around for all involved.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited September 2012
    I love the color, and I think the '64 was a handsome redesign, but too bad it's not a more desirable trim level, body style, and/or engine/trans combination:

    http://www.rmauctions.com/featurecars.cfm?SaleCode=HF12&CarID=r145&fc=0#

    It'll be interesting to see what it brings. I know a guy who knew the original owner who recently passed and says it is the real deal.

    I like the '63-66 Stude instrument panels. Real glass bezels, real chrome metal rings around them...plastic hadn't infiltrated Stude yet (and really never would).
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited September 2012
    I would respectfully argue 'the lowest mileage Studebaker in existence'. The Studebaker National Museum has the last regular-production-line Studebaker built in the United States, a red '64 Daytona Hardtop with 4-speed, disc brakes, and Avanti R1 power (240 hp, 10.25 to 1 compression, chrome air cleaner, valve covers, and dipstick) with 28 miles. Studebaker gave it to the city and filled the customer's order with a 'ringer' that sat in inventory, and added and deleted optional equipment to fill the order.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/sjb4photos/7143686819/

    This red car makes me weak in the knees whenever I see it in person.

    Not sure why the placard at the museum says 'less than 50 miles'--in person I looked in and saw the odometer. I remember it being 28 miles.
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  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    I suppose the ad should have said it the car for sale is the lowest mileage Studebaker available to the public. It should have also said that the dealership continued selling Mercedes Benz, rather than to make it seem that this event happened after Studebaker quit selling cars. Other than that, the ad is pretty accurate.

    I like the colors Studebaker used in its final years and the car pictured is no exception. I wish they had not made the Commander a low-price model (the Challenger below the Commander) because that was contrary to its past history. The Commander was the high price model or second to the President models during years when that model was offered. Studebaker generally had good model names (except for the Dictator) but some off-beat colors (such as Varsity Maroon).

    My grandfather bought a 1963 model with the Skybolt 6 when he retired. He was proud of that engine at the time, but that did not last long. He liked his 1952 Champion much better, even though that was not one of Studebaker's best years. It rusted so much more than our 1951 Champion, but that could have been because our 1951 had better undercoating.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited September 2012
    Starting with the '64's, Stude advertised their 'aluminized rustproofing' but I don't really know if that was any better than what was used before or not.

    I've owned '63, '64, and '66 Studebakers. On a personal note, I liked the styling, but I also enjoyed the interior space versus exterior size (I think they did the "'77 Chevy Caprice" thing a dozen years early), and I also liked the seating position, instrumentation, and steady, non-wallowy ride. The comparitive rarity was a bonus IMHO.
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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The December Collectible Automobile magazine has two articles you guys may find interesting. There is a short profile of a 54 Conestoga (I liked those mid fifties Studebaker wagons). There is also an interview with a former designer who did a lot of different things, including a stint at Studebaker. He talks about how they got a pix of the proposed upcoming 60 Chrysler Corp. Valiant and how they incorporated some of the design cues into the 59 Lark. Lot's of interesting stuff in that interview actually.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Thanks for the heads-up.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited October 2012
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  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    I just ordered Collectible Automobile magazine as a result of your post. I suspect that the former designer was connected to Virgil Exner (it could be his son) who made unfair criticisms of Studebaker because of his bad relationship with Raymond Lowey. Virgil Exner was a Loewy employee but was working independently with Studebaker chief engineer Roy Cole who wanted to get rid of Lowey and hire Exner direcltly. Exner lost that battle and went to Chrysler.

    I find it hard to believe that the 1959 Lark style was influenced by the 1960 Valiant. The Valiant was a top secret project at Chrysler. The two cars look most similar at the front end, but Studebaker was working with that style when they were designing the Hawk in 1955. This is more apparent in the Hawk protypes than the Hawks that actually made it into production.

    After Studebaker quit US production, Virgil Exner gave an interview in and article titled, "Who Killed Studebaker?" where he blamed Studebaker for its demise by not investing its post-war profits back into the automobile business. This was unfair because Studebaker did invest its war profits in the automobiles and trucks in the years following WWII. Between 1947 and 1953, Studebaker produced three new car bodies, a new pick-up truck that sold very well, an OHV-8 engine, automatic transmission and independent front suspension. In 1954, sales plumeted and Studebaker had huge losses, which they were able to claim as tax credits in later years by diversifying into other industries.

    The Virgil Exner line of thought is that Studebaker failed because it did not put its profits back into the auto business. Others have argued that Studebaker moved too fast and spent too quickly after WWII. Studebaker should have waited on the new bodies because customers would have bought the old models for a few more years. They came out with the V-8 engine too soon so that it had too small displacement was was too heavy for its displacement. They should have bought automatic transmissions from a transmission suppler (such as the hydramatic) instead of delevoping their own auto transmission with Borg Warner. One can argue that it was "too much too soon" or "too little too late."

    I personally think that Studebaker made most of the correct choices, but they should not have intrdouced both the Lowey coupes and the sedans in 1953 because they had too many productions problems by introducing both models at the same time and could not begin production of the 1953 models year until January 1953, nearly 5 months late.

    The sedans only looked short and frumpy because the coupes and hardtops were so low and long. I always liked the sedans and think they looked good next to everything else produced at the time except the Lowey coupes and hardtops.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I just watched that video and I really enjoyed it!

    Back in the mid 70's a guy was selling his 85 year old mother's 1955 Studebaker Champion and I bought it for the 300.00 he was asking.

    It had 16,000 actual miles on it! It was a four door yellow and white DIAMOND of a car that had spent it's life garaged. It still had the original
    clear plastic seat covers and all five original whitewalls. The spare tire
    was still in the wrapper.

    The only flaw was a broken rear door handle.

    Someone told me about Frost and French so I gave them a call.

    Yep, they had a lot of these in stock so I drove the 30 miles and picked it up.

    They no longer sold cars but they had a VERY busy parts and service operation at the time.

    Take out one phillips screw and it was a three minute job.

    We lived in an apartment at the time and I lived in fear something bad would happen to it in the underground parking so I sold it for 750.00.

    Oh, I wish I had it back!
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    edited October 2012
    I posted a Los Angeles video for 1954 too which is also very good. There is a 1953 or 1954 Studebaker sedan at the very beginning of that video. I don't know why the sedans did not sell better. They look fine to me and, with a few modifications, became Larks in 1959.

    image
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Any chance you can repost that clip? I missed it and would love to see it.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    edited October 2012
    At an orphan car show week ago saw this 1938.

    Guess the brand of the truck carrying the vintage Studebaker.">

    image

    image

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  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    Click on the blue link above for the 1954 video clip and much information about the now defunct Los Angeles auto industry. More Studebakers are in the 1954 video and a woman is working an old push- button cash register as fast as scanners do today. Worth seeing.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I really like that magazine. It covers a wide variety of things related to classic cars and trucks. The designer's name is Del Coates in that interview.
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